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Judge Smails

Supporting restaurants directly

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Posted (edited)

Man, everybody is in the pockets of restaurants. Grubhub, Uber Eats and Post Mates 20-30% of the bill. Yelp, Open Table, taking pieces. Heck, if you even click on the phone # after doing a google search it’s a cut. I’m just going to order directly from the business and pick it up myself from now on. Read some of these restaurants doing 1K gross in a day and netting $300. Ridiculous. 

Edited by Judge Smails
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The cut that the aggregators take is obscene.  We don't order out often to begin with but under shelter-in-place,  I've stuck to neighborhood places with a direct ordering line.

If Uber's rumored acquisition of GrubHub happens, things will only get worse.

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We had our restaurant on Grubhub. If a customer uses the link to Grubhub on a restaurants website to place an order through Grubhub, then Grubhub only takes 10% of the total order to pay for the delivery service. But if a customer orders from your restaurant without using your website link, Grubhub takes 30%. 10% is for the delivery, and 20% is a sales commission. 

So always use the restaurants website link to Grubhub to get it delivered via Grubhub. 

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1 hour ago, Politician Spock said:

We had our restaurant on Grubhub. If a customer uses the link to Grubhub on a restaurants website to place an order through Grubhub, then Grubhub only takes 10% of the total order to pay for the delivery service. But if a customer orders from your restaurant without using your website link, Grubhub takes 30%. 10% is for the delivery, and 20% is a sales commission. 

So always use the restaurants website link to Grubhub to get it delivered via Grubhub. 

Wow—those are some big percentages. I almost feel like they should reduce the sales commission after the first order if the same account keeps re-ordering from the same restaurant.  I feel like that would incentivize the restaurants to put out the best quality of food as it would increase their margins if they captured repeat business.  That also might incentivize more restaurants to get on grub hubs platform knowing that over time they could reduce those commissions by achieving that repeat business. 

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5 hours ago, Judge Smails said:

Man, everybody is in the pockets of restaurants. Grubhub, Uber Eats and Post Mates 20-30% of the bill. Yelp, Open Table, taking pieces. Heck, if you even click on the phone # doing after doing a google search it’s a cut. I’m just going to order directly from the business and pick it up myself from now on. Read some of these restaurants doing 1K gross in a day and netting $300. Ridiculous. 

I agree and I never use any of those services (I don't even have an account with any of them).  I either pick it up myself or order from places that have their own delivery, but I mainly do takeout.

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6 hours ago, Judge Smails said:

Ridiculous. 

While we are at it let's go ahead and mention some of the ridiculous things the restaurants get away with doing.  How about charging $2.50 for a soda that cost them 5 cents?

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Damn, that's a pretty ridiculous cut.   Ordering from grubhub or seamless is just so damn easy though.  Is it the same cut if you're doing pick up?

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1 hour ago, NutterButter said:

Damn, that's a pretty ridiculous cut.   Ordering from grubhub or seamless is just so damn easy though.  Is it the same cut if you're doing pick up?

You call a service to place your order and then pick it up yourself?

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Just now, Galileo said:

You call a service to place your order and then pick it up yourself?

I use the grubhub site, but for pickup.   I'd imagine that their cut would be less since they're not doing any delivery.   Or is it the restaurant that is still doing the delivery?

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2 hours ago, Punxsutawney Phil said:
9 hours ago, Judge Smails said:

Ridiculous. 

While we are at it let's go ahead and mention some of the ridiculous things the restaurants get away with doing.  How about charging $2.50 for a soda that cost them 5 cents?

TBH, That's a fair line of thought.

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2 hours ago, Punxsutawney Phil said:

While we are at it let's go ahead and mention some of the ridiculous things the restaurants get away with doing.  How about charging $2.50 for a soda that cost them 5 cents?

Given the margins that most restaurants operate with I'm hands off when it comes to their pricing. If the upcharge is too steep for you then I get it, but just have that stock on-hand yourself. I'm trying to remember the last we ordered a drink for take out and am shooting blanks.

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30 minutes ago, NutterButter said:

I use the grubhub site, but for pickup.   I'd imagine that their cut would be less since they're not doing any delivery.   Or is it the restaurant that is still doing the delivery?

If you order through grubhub for pickup, then the restaurant is not charged the delivery fee (10% of the order), but does pay a commission to grubhub for making the sale (20%). 

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24 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Given the margins that most restaurants operate with I'm hands off when it comes to their pricing. If the upcharge is too steep for you then I get it, but just have that stock on-hand yourself. I'm trying to remember the last we ordered a drink for take out and am shooting blanks.

I suspect he was targeting regular business rather than take out with this commentary.

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2 hours ago, Punxsutawney Phil said:

While we are at it let's go ahead and mention some of the ridiculous things the restaurants get away with doing.  How about charging $2.50 for a soda that cost them 5 cents?

It's more like 25 cents, but your point is made.

If you want to make fountain soda's at home for 25 cents, then sign a contract with a soda distributor who will require a minimum order amount each month, and have a fountain system installed in your home and CO2 tanks delivered (also with a monthly minimum contract). Hopefully you'll drink so much that it will average out to 25 cents a serving. But if your consumption is typical to the rest of the country, each soda serving would cost your $100+ doing it this way. 

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32 minutes ago, Politician Spock said:

If you order through grubhub for pickup, then the restaurant is not charged the delivery fee (10% of the order), but does pay a commission to grubhub for making the sale (20%). 

Good golly that's still pretty steep.  Is Grubhub also passing along the credit card processing fee or is that a part of the 20%?

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38 minutes ago, Politician Spock said:

It's more like 25 cents, but your point is made.

If you want to make fountain soda's at home for 25 cents, then sign a contract with a soda distributor who will require a minimum order amount each month, and have a fountain system installed in your home and CO2 tanks delivered (also with a monthly minimum contract). Hopefully you'll drink so much that it will average out to 25 cents a serving. But if your consumption is typical to the rest of the country, each soda serving would cost your $100+ doing it this way. 

Have you heard of SodaStream?

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I'm as lazy as anyone, but there would have to be extraordinary circumstances for me to utilize a delivery service like Grubhub. I'll have the occasional pizza delivered by restaurant staff. Or I order to-go and pick it up. 

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2 minutes ago, Jobber said:

I'm as lazy as anyone, but there would have to be extraordinary circumstances for me to utilize a delivery service like Grubhub. 

I’ve never had good delivered to my home in my life. I grew up and still live in the country. No one has ever offered delivery to me... until now with DoorDash and Ubereats. 
 

I’ll be trying them at some point 

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32 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

I’ve never had good delivered to my home in my life. I grew up and still live in the country. No one has ever offered delivery to me... until now with DoorDash and Ubereats. 
 

I’ll be trying them at some point 

For me, I think Grubhub, Doordash, Ubereats could actually be useful while traveling, and not familiar with the town. But in reading this thread, it sounds like these companies bend small businesses over a barrel, which I'm not cool with at all. 

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16 minutes ago, Jobber said:

it sounds like these companies bend small businesses over a barrel, which I'm not cool with at all. 

Well, I almost ordered some 5 guys a few nights ago after the wife and I had had some drinks and weren’t driving anywhere.

I would’ve paid about 25 for two burgers and a fry for us to share even if I went and picked it up so ....

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NutterButter said:

Good golly that's still pretty steep.  Is Grubhub also passing along the credit card processing fee or is that a part of the 20%?

Grubhub passes that along to the restaurant, but the restaurant would pay that anyway if they themselves charged the customer's card. So I don't see how Grubhub is costing the restaurant more in regards to customers using credit cards. The restaurant owners I've heard complain about the credit card fees always site that they get a better rate from their merchant, but they're talking about a swiped card rate. Pretty much all merchant accounts charge a much higher rate for cards that are not swiped. 

ETA: Nobody should be using these apps to order pickup, as 20% as a sales commission is ridiculous. Just order directly from the restaurant and pick it up. But if you want delivery, it only costs the restaurant 10% WHEN you use the link on the restaurant's website, because this means Grubhub does NOT get the 20% sales commission. Since the sale came from the restaurant's website, it's assume the restaurant made the sale and not Grubhub. 10% actually isn't that bad given the customer does not take up any table space dining in, and there is no driver for the restaurant to pay. It's the 20% sales commissions grubhub takes that rapes the restaurant, and then the "promotions" restaurants have to pay in order to be "featured" in the app, that of course produces more sales that Grubhub gets 20% sales commissions on. 

Edited by Politician Spock
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never used one of these services in my life, and we do takeout a decent amount (tho more often eat in)

maybe it's the italianness of growing up... but you order and go pick it up yourself. 

kinda just realized in the events i do delivery, i dont order from places that use these services... a subconscious thing, i guess.

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6 minutes ago, Politician Spock said:

You like that crap?

No, but it's no where close to "$100 per serving" as you mentioned earlier for fountain drink servings. 

Granted, it's not quite as good as "normal" fountain soda but for the person who is all about fountain drinks, it's close enough. 

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6 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

never used one of these services in my life, and we do takeout a decent amount (tho more often eat in)

maybe it's the italianness of growing up... but you order and go pick it up yourself. 

kinda just realized in the events i do delivery, i dont order from places that use these services... a subconscious thing, i guess.

Yeah, I've never used a delivery service but have the advantage of most things being within walking distance or I order from places that deliver themselves.

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Like some others, I've never used any of these services.  Just never felt right to me.  

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Who in their right mind orders soda with their takeout meal?  That's like going to an all-you-can-eat place and eating 8 heads of lettuce.

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2 hours ago, Jobber said:

I'm as lazy as anyone, but there would have to be extraordinary circumstances for me to utilize a delivery service like Grubhub. I'll have the occasional pizza delivered by restaurant staff. Or I order to-go and pick it up. 

I could see if you lived in a big city and rode the train/taxi/uber everywhere those services would thrive.  But in any small/moderate size city where everyone drives I don't get it. 

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1 hour ago, Politician Spock said:

Grubhub passes that along to the restaurant, but the restaurant would pay that anyway if they themselves charged the customer's card. So I don't see how Grubhub is costing the restaurant more in regards to customers using credit cards. The restaurant owners I've heard complain about the credit card fees always site that they get a better rate from their merchant, but they're talking about a swiped card rate. Pretty much all merchant accounts charge a much higher rate for cards that are not swiped. 

I was just trying to comprehend whether at least some of that 20% was the processing fee which the restaurant would be paying anyways. 

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1 hour ago, TheWinz said:

Who in their right mind orders soda with their takeout meal?  That's like going to an all-you-can-eat place and eating 8 heads of lettuce.

I would sometimes get a couple of cans of that hawaiian punch with the chinese food b/c the kids ask for it.   I have kids though so clearly being financially wise isn't one of my top priorities. 

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3 hours ago, Jobber said:

I'm as lazy as anyone, but there would have to be extraordinary circumstances for me to utilize a delivery service like Grubhub. I'll have the occasional pizza delivered by restaurant staff. Or I order to-go and pick it up. 

This is me, but I don't even have pizza delivered, I always go pick up my take out orders. I've never been tempted by Uber Eats, Grubhub, etc.

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1 hour ago, jamny said:

Yeah, I've never used a delivery service but have the advantage of most things being within walking distance or I order from places that deliver themselves.

i only do takeout from places that are close enough that i know my food will be piping hot.

any further, and ill eat at the restaurant. 

then again, aside from pizza im not sure I ever order in... sushi here and there, but normally i want the restaurant experience, or just cook myself.

there's nothing exciting/enticing about paying a 20-40% markup for delivery. 

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1 hour ago, eoMMan said:

No, but it's no where close to "$100 per serving" as you mentioned earlier for fountain drink servings. 

Granted, it's not quite as good as "normal" fountain soda but for the person who is all about fountain drinks, it's close enough. 

To be honest, this isn't a very high set bar...

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2 hours ago, Politician Spock said:

You like that crap?

It's terrible

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Jules Winnfield said:

It's terrible

Soda stream is no good? I never tried it but was tempted to buy it at one time.

 

eta: I wouldn't do it for flavored, just carbonated water

Edited by jamny

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31 minutes ago, NutterButter said:

I was just trying to comprehend whether at least some of that 20% was the processing fee which the restaurant would be paying anyways. 

OK, got it. Nope. That 20% is entirely a sales commission to Grubhub for being the source of the sale. 

There are numerous fees from Grubhub that restaurants see, the sales commission, the delivery fee, the credit card processing fee, and fees for any promotions the restaurant chooses to partake in to be a "featured" restaurant in the app. It's the sales commissions and the promotions that are astronomically high for businesses with razor thin profit margins such as restaurants to be paying. The delivery fee and credit card processing fee on the other hand are very reasonable, and with a good marketing strategy, that's all a restaurant will pay when using Grubhub to do their deliveries. It's when restaurants rely on the Grubhub app itself to be the source of sales where restaurants get raped. 

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6 hours ago, Punxsutawney Phil said:

While we are at it let's go ahead and mention some of the ridiculous things the restaurants get away with doing.  How about charging $2.50 for a soda that cost them 5 cents?

You’ve clearly never run a restaurant before.  This is the case so that your burger doesn’t cost you $37.  Most restaurants are lucky to run 5-10% overall profit margins in the best of times. 

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7 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

You’ve clearly never run a restaurant before.  This is the case so that your burger doesn’t cost you $37.  Most restaurants are lucky to run 5-10% overall profit margins in the best of times. 

Is there some strategy in the restaurant business where you decide to under charge for some things and over charge for others?

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2 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

never used one of these services in my life, and we do takeout a decent amount (tho more often eat in)

maybe it's the italianness of growing up... but you order and go pick it up yourself. 

kinda just realized in the events i do delivery, i dont order from places that use these services... a subconscious thing, i guess.

What if you are drunk?

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30 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

You’ve clearly never run a restaurant before.  This is the case so that your burger doesn’t cost you $37.  Most restaurants are lucky to run 5-10% overall profit margins in the best of times. 

I have never ran a restaurant but it's obvious they subsidize food cost by price gouging on beverages.  I get it, I was merely pointing it out since there seems to be so much annoyance with the delivery drivers ripping people off.

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2 hours ago, TheWinz said:

Who in their right mind orders soda with their takeout meal?  That's like going to an all-you-can-eat place and eating 8 heads of lettuce.

I agree.

I don't use any delivery service, unless the restaurant is having their own employees deliver.  Over the past 6 weeks, we've ordered out 7-8 times, 3 times delivered by employees (pizza joint and local bar and grill).  Otherwise we picked it up ourselves.  People should be aware of the price gouging that goes on by delivery services and how it doesn't go to the restaurant you are trying to support.  We also ordered a 6-pack of beer from the bar and grill to try to help them out (I mean who is going to pay 18 bucks for a sixer when I can get it for 1/3 that price at the corner store), but we did try to help them out where we could.

Went out to dinner twice last week as Houston is open, although there are certain guidelines that are supposed to be adhered to and I was curious if they were.

Tex-Mex place first up.  They did not use paper menus.  No one wore masks.  Tables were not moved or cordoned off, but we were the only patrons.  Will not return there, nor do I think they have a chance in hell of surviving post-COVID 19.

Next place was a popular burger/pub place.  Paper menus, check.  Masks, check. Tables moved, check.  I felt very comfortable with these restrictions in place and for a Friday night the place had no wait whatsoever (from say 6:00 - 7:30 p.m.).  That said, I am not sure how ANY restaurant is going to survive at this rate. Even the ones that are adhering to standards are ghost towns.

I'll admit though it was nice to get a meal out for the first time in months.  Not a big fan of take out, nor delivery at all, would rather cook at home, but am trying to throw some support out there.  I feel bad for these restaurant workers for real.

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22 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

Some restaurants adding Covid 19 tax/surcharge to bill....ok or not ok?

https://www.wthr.com/article/covid-19-surcharge-why-some-restaurants-are-adding-extra-fee-your-bill

Not OK in my book

29 minutes ago, whoknew said:

What if you are drunk?

I was tempted to get some white castles delivered the other night.  Other than that I will get pizza delivered occasionally, but usually go pick it up.

theres one Italian place we will get delivery from maybe once a year, other than that any carryout I go pick up or we go out to eat

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It's the same way in a lot of businesses and people don't think about it.

Restaurants have become obvious now.

Golf courses lose about 30% of their revenue when people make an online tee time.  So if you pay $60, the course is getting about $42.  That's $18 less per round to maintain the course that you want to be nice as can be.  If you call the course directly, they get the money and the rates are the same.

Realtors pay 30-50% when people use an online referral site  Standard referrals are like 30%.  Zillow runs into the 50% range when you figure out the subscription costs.  So no matter what you think of realtors, do you want to pay yours 50% less just because you clicked on a Zillow button.  While Zillow does nothing but feed from the MLS like hundred of other sites.

Amazon is different slightly in that it can provide a price benefit to the consumer.  None of the above really do that.

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4 minutes ago, Brunell4MVP said:

It's the same way in a lot of businesses and people don't think about it.

Restaurants have become obvious now.

Golf courses lose about 30% of their revenue when people make an online tee time.  So if you pay $60, the course is getting about $42.  That's $18 less per round to maintain the course that you want to be nice as can be.  If you call the course directly, they get the money and the rates are the same.

Realtors pay 30-50% when people use an online referral site  Standard referrals are like 30%.  Zillow runs into the 50% range when you figure out the subscription costs.  So no matter what you think of realtors, do you want to pay yours 50% less just because you clicked on a Zillow button.  While Zillow does nothing but feed from the MLS like hundred of other sites.

Amazon is different slightly in that it can provide a price benefit to the consumer.  None of the above really do that.

The hacker course I used to play at for some reason also gave you a lower greens fee if you booked online (I'm not talking about through something like golfnow but through a 3rd party booking app that was integrated directly into their crappy website).  

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1 hour ago, NutterButter said:

Is there some strategy in the restaurant business where you decide to under charge for some things and over charge for others?

Only the entire business model.  

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1 hour ago, NutterButter said:

Is there some strategy in the restaurant business where you decide to under charge for some things and over charge for others?

To answer that question more directly than my last one, yes and it’s largely because of customer perception. Customers are not willing to spend $37 for a hamburger but they are willing to spend $2.50 for a soda. So because of that that’s what you charge. If they were willing to spend $37 on a burger and $.20 on a soda then you would charge that.  Like any business it’s simply a shell game to try to cover your costs and ultimately it doesn’t really matter how you get there you just have to get there.  

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Unfortunately a necessary evil for most businesses during this crisis. Many didn’t have a good system in place for online orders and it also got customers in may not have seen them without the resources. They were also forced into a leaner staff, so the extra help organizing and taking orders was needed.

I always make a point of asking what’s the most profitable way to order and what items have higher margins to try and help as much as I can.

Side note, I hope my experience isn’t typical everywhere - small businesses are disappointed with post-opening yet chain restaurants have lines out the door.

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1 hour ago, whoknew said:

What if you are drunk?

honestly dont drink much anymore... which is wild since i have an endless supply of free local (award winning) beers... i end up giving cases away monthly.

i smoke every night, and just have a small bowl of peanuts.

but in the event i do get drunk... a pizza delivered or nothing.

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