My son Peter (1 Viewer)

First, I read this when you first posted it and it was such a heartwarming post to read.  Your acceptance and love shone through your post and Peter is lucky to have you.  Peter is also undoubtedly the special kid he is because of the role modeling you provided.  Best wishes to both of you moving forward.

From the medical perspective, especially for those that are likely unfamiliar with the process and transgender issues in general, I'll point out a few things.  These decisions, especially a young ages, are not taken lightly.  The care teams that take care of transgender patients who wish to undergo a change are comprised of multiple physicians and ancillary support that work together.  You don't just come in and say I want to change and it just gets done.  It involves countless visits and significant time to make sure it's the right decision.  Research has also shown that the effects of not listening and helping patients change is far more detrimental.  I know the belief for those that aren't familiar with it is that hormones and surgery is extreme, but the reality is that not doing so is actually more extreme for them.  As pointed out already, the overwhelming majority of patients that undergo gender change are completely satisfied and would never want to go back.  It speaks to how real this is even though that's difficult for most of us to comprehend. 

Bottom line is that children that go through this (both younger as well as teens) have experienced and well rounded medical teams that are taking care of them and ensuring it's the right decision at the right time.  There has been lots of research into this and these decisions aren't ever taken lightly.  The evidence shows that, when appropriate, it isn't too early even in younger children if they truly fit criteria to change.

rockaction said:

I was also hesitant to comment in this thread because, like TJ, I don't know about teen transitioning and young people in general. I did not know who on earth I was at eighteen or twenty-one, nor what I was capable of doing or becoming.

I worry that in our rush to appear (or actually be) non-judgmental, we may be abiding a person's decision to damage their life fundamentally. I'm a conservative when it comes to inherited wisdom of bodies such as this. My gut is always to leave well enough alone. But I am also aware that some people are born both emotionally and physically intersexed. So this is not to detract from the love and support you give your son Peter, but to just note a caution that I and I think many others have when it comes to this. It is truly an individual decision, though, and only you know what is best for Peter. Good luck and I hope his situation is one of happiness and adjustment. 

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I also did not know who I was at 18-21, but as someone who is not trans (and I assume you are not as well) maybe we were not exposed to the same feeling of "something is wrong" that someone who is trans might. I don't know if that is correct, just my own open speculation. 

In my mind, if one of my kids came to me as trans, I would try and get them hormone replacement therapy as soon as possible, preferably pre-puberty. I feel like if they do change their mind, you could always fix stuff by going in the opposite direction or just stopping hormone therapy (I am not a hormone expert so maybe this is bad advice), but if they do not change their mind they would probably be happier with their appearance and potentially need less plastic surgery later. Maybe that is more important for M-F rather than F-M, since observationally it seems like testosterone is pretty powerful and sort of a double edged sword for trans people, where it is hard to undo the effect of years of it for M-F, but maybe it allows a F-M to catch up a little better since no one really questions the gender of someone with a full beard, even if they are 5'2". Again, maybe I am incorrect. 

Anybody here ever hear of apotemnophilia? I started a thread on it once. It's when you feel like a limb is wrongly attached to your body and you wish to amputate it. I believe they won't even put it in the DSM-V after having it in the DSM-IV, because the remedy was striking. Patients felt better after the removal of the limb. I guess a theoretical thought experiment would be this: We no longer recognize body identity integrity disorder because the results and therapeutic cure galls us.

Why should surgery to reassign sex characteristics not be viewed this way? Indeed, the first searches of apotemnophilia find that the experience of the person experiencing what they view as not feeling "whole" or feeling "trans-abled" is remarkably similar to gender dysphoia. So why will we neither recognize body identity integrity disorder nor include it at all in our medical manuals despite the urging of doctors and health care professionals? 

I would venture that it's purely sociopolitical, and that we'd find the answer there. Questions that we dare not ask, anyway.

fatguyinalittlecoat said:

There are definitely people that take this position, but everything I've read makes clear that there are costs to waiting.  Trans kids that get hormone therapy are less likely to commit suicide and report being happier.  And Peter wants to do it ASAP because the transition just looks better the younger you start.  He wants to be a good looking dude.

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And I'm sure you have done more research then me.  I suppose I could change my mind if I was in your shoes. 

Best of luck to you and your family   

Good luck fatguy and Peter. You are an amazing person and a fantastic father. As others have said, Peter is lucky to have you as a dad.

rockaction said:

Anybody here ever hear of apotemnophilia? I started a thread on it once. It's when you feel like a limb is wrongly attached to your body and you wish to amputate it. I believe they won't even put it in the DSM-V after having it in the DSM-IV, because the remedy was striking. Patients felt better after the removal of the limb. I guess a theoretical thought experiment would be this: We no longer recognize body identity integrity disorder because the results and therapeutic cure galls us.

Why should surgery to reassign sex characteristics not be viewed this way? Indeed, the first searches of apotemnophilia find that the experience of the person experiencing what they view as not feeling "whole" or feeling "trans-abled" is remarkably similar to gender dysphoia. So why will we neither recognize body identity integrity disorder nor include it at all in our medical manuals despite the urging of doctors and health care professionals? 

I would venture that it's purely sociopolitical, and that we'd find the answer there. Questions that we dare not ask, anyway.

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I know you and I have gotten into it on transgender/gender identity issues in the past, so I won't rehash it here other than to say that I don't think this thread is the right place for this discussion.

Steve Tasker said:

I know you and I have gotten into it on transgender/gender identity issues in the past, so I won't rehash it here other than to say that I don't think this thread is the right place for this discussion.

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It's OK, @rockaction and I go way back, I know his questions aren't malicious or anything.   I'm a little busy right now but will try to respond to him and anyone else that I can later this afternoon.

Thanks to all for making this a great thread.

gianmarco said:

First, I read this when you first posted it and it was such a heartwarming post to read.  Your acceptance and love shone through your post and Peter is lucky to have you.  Peter is also undoubtedly the special kid he is because of the role modeling you provided.  Best wishes to both of you moving forward.

From the medical perspective, especially for those that are likely unfamiliar with the process and transgender issues in general, I'll point out a few things.  These decisions, especially a young ages, are not taken lightly.  The care teams that take care of transgender patients who wish to undergo a change are comprised of multiple physicians and ancillary support that work together.  You don't just come in and say I want to change and it just gets done.  It involves countless visits and significant time to make sure it's the right decision.  Research has also shown that the effects of not listening and helping patients change is far more detrimental.  I know the belief for those that aren't familiar with it is that hormones and surgery is extreme, but the reality is that not doing so is actually more extreme for them.  As pointed out already, the overwhelming majority of patients that undergo gender change are completely satisfied and would never want to go back.  It speaks to how real this is even though that's difficult for most of us to comprehend. 

Bottom line is that children that go through this (both younger as well as teens) have experienced and well rounded medical teams that are taking care of them and ensuring it's the right decision at the right time.  There has been lots of research into this and these decisions aren't ever taken lightly.  The evidence shows that, when appropriate, it isn't too early even in younger children if they truly fit criteria to change.

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Very true. In fact I've read that before puberty is better to start the process if it's fully a go by the team.

Steve Tasker said:

I know you and I have gotten into it on transgender/gender identity issues in the past, so I won't rehash it here other than to say that I don't think this thread is the right place for this discussion.

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Probably not. I think the questions are legitimate, but maybe not here. I had nothing more to say and got to thinking about it in general and dispassionate terms, really.

bigbottom said:

Our really close friends’ son who we’ve known and been close with since birth transitioned to be a female in college. She’s been on hormones for a couple years now and will be undergoing the big surgery in the fall. She is so happy now that she is living life as her true self. It’s been awesome to see. But one thing she did before starting hormones was bank sperm. Have you discussed whether Peter is interested in harvesting eggs before starting the transition?  He may be interested in having a surrogate, or even his partner or wife, carry a child using his eggs down the road. 

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I was just thinking the same thing.  As a youngster, I knew that I was a dude and liked girls.  However, my opinions on having kids definitely evolved as I got older.

Rich Conway said:

 The first sentence would certainly be a worry, and parents may wonder for years, if not decades, if this might happen.  If the 1% figure is accurate (I've done no research whatsoever), that would seem to alleviate some of that concern.  Of course, worrying that you've made the right decisions for your child is part of being a parent to begin with, so it will never go away completely.

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In 2018, the American Academy of Pediatrics reported some shocking numbers about transgender teens:

50.8% of female to male adolescents had attempted suicide as had 29.9% of male to female adolescents.

Separate studies show the single biggest determinant - BY FAR - whether or not a transgender teen attempts suicide is parental support.

If you are the parent of a kid like Peter, job 1 is giving him all the support he needs right now to make sure he's one of the minority of kids who doesn't try to hurt himself. Only after that's secure do you begin to worry about all the other stuff - stuff that will be moot if you don't take care of job 1.

If your kid had a condition with a 50% chance of being fatal or near-fatal, and you could cure it - even though it might make them infertile and/or an extremely small percentage of surviving kids end up regretting the cure - would you give them treatment or withhold it? 

The stuff I miss when we can't play trivia anymore.

I can't add anything useful other than what others have said.   Which is that I know you'll ace the important part, which is being there and valuing Peter's happiness. I can't think of someone I trust more to be there for his kid during something like this.  

dgreen said:

I don't think I ever thought about it, so I project that onto most people and assume most people/kids/teens/adolescents don't really put much thought into at all. Maybe that's because they are 1000% sure and there's no reason to think about something too much that you are that sure about.

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Exactly.  The fact that this comes up at all shows that there is an issue to be addressed.

The_Man said:

In 2018, the American Academy of Pediatrics reported some shocking numbers about transgender teens:

50.8% of female to male adolescents had attempted suicide as had 29.9% of male to female adolescents.

Separate studies show the single biggest determinant - BY FAR - whether or not a transgender teen attempts suicide is parental support.

If you are the parent of a kid like Peter, job 1 is giving him all the support he needs right now to make sure he's one of the minority of kids who doesn't try to hurt himself. Only after that's secure do you begin to worry about all the other stuff - stuff that will be moot if you don't take care of job 1.

If your kid had a condition with a 50% chance of being fatal or near-fatal, and you could cure it - even though it might make them infertile and/or an extremely small percentage of surviving kids end up regretting the cure - would you give them treatment or withhold it? 

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Yup, I agree with you and fgialc entirely, here.  The reality is, as a parent, no matter what decision I made, I'd always worry.  Just part and parcel of being a parent.

Wow.  You are definitely a more loving and understanding father than I would be.  I mean, I know you need to trust your kids and you said he put a ton of thought into this, but Peter????  The name basically means to slowly quit.  And it's abbreviated by only removing the last letter.   I fear he could be making a terrible mistake here.  

You can do some good Office Space shtick with Peter  "HEY PETER MAN WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH A MILLION DOLLARS"

You are a tremendous role model. 
Not only for your son, but all of us.

Best of health and happiness to your family and here’s to a smooth transition for your son. 

I know there will be challenges ahead, but I think it is amazing the amount of support you are giving Peter, and that support will go a long way towards making those challenges easier to overcome. My best wishes for Peter, you, and the rest of your family. I have a friend that is going through this, and her support of her son Adam has helped him tremendously.

Thank you so much for sharing Peter and your story - so heartwarming, affirming, and extraordinary to see a very hard decision taken with nothing but love, support, encouragement, and kindness. It's the way it should be between parents and kids, and it's often not -- and especially in a situation like this.

What clued me into how incredible a dad you are, fgialc, was that in relating the post, there was no hesitation to your unwavering acceptance. When Peter decided what he wanted to do to ensure his own happiness, you were there in lockstep with him. He was Peter, to himself and to you, without question and with full commitment.

I know this won't be easy for him, or for you. I do find that kids of Peter's age (have a kid around there myself) seem to be way more open, understanding, and accepting of LGBTQ people and way more aware and sensitive to issues and needs. It certainly wasn't like that was when I was that age.

At the end of the day, regardless of all the triumphs and rough patches ahead - because of his transition and because that's how life is in general -- that one constant of you being loving, supportive, and accepting -- is something that is going to make it inordinately easier.

Fatguy- we’ve all known what a stand up guy you are - smart, funny and a loving Father.  Kudos to you and good luck to Peter.

I’ll add to Tom’s post with a question that hopefully comes out the way I intend it.  As a parent of four, I’ve always felt that unconditional love is a key ingredient of what we are called to do.  But I also feel we are to help challenge and push back on our kids with their decision making.  Allowing them to make their own choices but with guidance is something I’m a believer in.  So, my question - in this situation did you push back at all?  Did you question Peter around his mindset or thought process?  I’ve thought about a scenario like this around one of my kids coming out and I honestly don’t know if that’s the best approach.  I would worry about them feeling attacked or not being accepted.  Just curious your thought process and how you handled that.  Apologies if I missed any comments around this aspect.

timschochet said:

I’m very impressed by the overwhelming response of support you have received in this thread. I think it’s reflective of our amazing evolution as a society on this issue and other issues regarding LGBTQ. I‘ve been a participant of this forum going on 14 years now and I can almost guarantee you that had you started this thread maybe 7 years ago or before that, nearly half the responses you would have received would have been either respectfully negative or else you would have been expressly attacked. How far we’ve come in so short a time! 

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Yup, it's been a great thing to have this outpouring of support.  FBGs can be a pretty great place sometimes.

bigmarc27 said:

I guess this is what I was trying to say. Can anyone here say their thoughts on music, movies, and culture weren’t significantly molded by friends while they were in HS?  I used to listen to all kinds of stuff in HS just because my friends liked it, then my tastes completely changed in college with my new friends, to now what they are today just because I like what I like. 
 

I’m not saying sexuality is as trivial as music preference, just that it’s a confusing time and people want to fit in, so if I’m questioning my sexuality and Timmy says he never fit it and now he’s trans, maybe that seems like the one and only answer to what I’m feeling. 
 

I guess what it boils down to, I’m glad he came to this decision but I’d feel a higher comfort level if his friends had not already made that same decision. 

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I think a lot of trans people know something is off for a long time, but if they don't have the tools and experience to know what they're going through, it isn't easy to figure out.  The whole "man trapped in a woman's body" isn't really the way it works for most people.  Lots of folks just have a hard time processing the different messages they're receiving from their environment and their internal feelings.  Things are changing a lot now but when I was growing up I was taught there were two genders.  The idea that my genitals might not match my gender was never even contemplated.  If I had felt that way I think it would have been extraordinarily confusing and disorienting.  I should say, this is mostly from stuff I've read and not from personal experience or anything Peter said.

In any case, I think that's one of several big differences here between gender and preferences in music, for example.  When a trans kid like Peter comes out, that's usually after having had a moment of clarity -- this is what I've been feeling all along I just didn't know why!  It's the culmination of a personal journey.  

I think Peter is extremely lucky to have a close friend that started this journey a little before he started it.  His friend was a person that Peter could talk about things with that he didn't feel comfortable sharing with me or his mom.   From my perspective, the fact that Peter and his friend have this close relationship and have spent months discussing this is comforting -- this isn't some sort of uninformed decision made on a whim.  When I think back to my childhood, if I had a friend that told me he or she was trans, I like to think I would have said "hey what's that like?"  And then after learning more there's no question I would have said "yeah, that's not me."   

fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I think a lot of trans people know something is off for a long time, but if they don't have the tools and experience to know what they're going through, it isn't easy to figure out.  The whole "man trapped in a woman's body" isn't really the way it works for most people.  Lots of folks just have a hard time processing the different messages they're receiving from their environment and their internal feelings.  Things are changing a lot now but when I was growing up I was taught there were two genders.  The idea that my genitals might not match my gender was never even contemplated.  If I had felt that way I think it would have been extraordinarily confusing and disorienting.  I should say, this is mostly from stuff I've read and not from personal experience or anything Peter said.

In any case, I think that's one of several big differences here between gender and preferences in music, for example.  When a trans kid like Peter comes out, that's usually after having had a moment of clarity -- this is what I've been feeling all along I just didn't know why!  It's the culmination of a personal journey.  

I think Peter is extremely lucky to have a close friend that started this journey a little before he started it.  His friend was a person that Peter could talk about things with that he didn't feel comfortable sharing with me or his mom.   From my perspective, the fact that Peter and his friend have this close relationship and have spent months discussing this is comforting -- this isn't some sort of uninformed decision made on a whim.  When I think back to my childhood, if I had a friend that told me he or she was trans, I like to think I would have said "hey what's that like?"  And then after learning more there's no question I would have said "yeah, that's not me."   

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As others have said, you are doing an awesome job with supporting him.

That being said, are you at least a little concerned that maybe this decision is being influenced a little bit by the best friend? When was the earliest that Peter thought about this?

I say that because teens are easily influenced and will align in different areas with what their friends do. For example, I have a female teenage cousin who's now into only dating a certain type of guy (who her family and I wouldn't have guessed) and it turns out her best friend of a year is all about these guys. 

Idk. Just food for thought. Personally, I'd want my child to be at least 18 before acting on a decision like this.

Good luck. 

fatguyinalittlecoat said:

For what it's worth, this is similar to my ex-wife's thoughts on this.  She sees that Peter has a close trans friend, and another trans kid in his big afterschool activity, and thinks it's completely implausible that there could be so many trans kids.  She has suggested that there is at least some chance Peter is being influenced by his environment and that he isn't really trans. 

From my perspective that strikes me as far less likely than the alternative -- that there actually are more trans kids than we know, but only the ones that live in liberal places like suburban D.C. feel comfortable enough and knowledgeable enough to come out.  I don't think there's any specific research that makes clear what the right answer is but my theory seems consistent with what happened with gay people coming out of the closet once some of the stigma was removed,  

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I don't think it matters whether environment influenced this decision or not. What matters is Peters happiness. Peter is a very lucky boy to have such a wonderful father. Wish you and your entire family the best.

For those of you wondering if the best friend is influencing a decision he wouldn't otherwise make....

Assuming you aren't gay, think about how you feel sexually toward men and women. Now, if you had a really good friend growing up that was gay, do you think you'd start feeling differently about men or women sexually because of your friend?  This isn't much different.

eoMMan said:

As others have said, you are doing an awesome job with supporting him.

That being said, are you at least a little concerned that maybe this decision is being influenced a little bit by the best friend? When was the earliest that Peter thought about this?

I say that because teens are easily influenced and will align in different areas with what their friends do. For example, I have a female teenage cousin who's now into only dating a certain type of guy (who her family and I wouldn't have guessed) and it turns out her best friend of a year is all about these guys. 

Idk. Just food for thought. Personally, I'd want my child to be at least 18 before acting on a decision like this.

Good luck. 

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What if your kid came out to you at age 15 or 16, you told him to wait for 2 or 3 years, and that delay causes extreme psychological or emotional damage? What if he tries to harm himself during that period? 

I’m not convinced there’s some huge difference between a thoughtful kid with quality professional counseling at age 16 vs 18 months later

The_Man said:

What if your kid came out to you at age 15 or 16, you told him to wait for 2 or 3 years, and that delay causes extreme psychological or emotional damage? What if he tries to harm himself during that period? 

I’m not convinced there’s some huge difference between a thoughtful kid with quality professional counseling at age 16 vs 18 months later

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I think this is more than just a child coming out as gay.

Will you ever show him this thread?

Zero surprise at your reaction and instant acceptance/support fg. Looking forward to following/learning from your journey. Thanks for sharing.  

huthut said:

In my mind, if one of my kids came to me as trans, I would try and get them hormone replacement therapy as soon as possible, preferably pre-puberty. I feel like if they do change their mind, you could always fix stuff by going in the opposite direction or just stopping hormone therapy (I am not a hormone expert so maybe this is bad advice), but if they do not change their mind they would probably be happier with their appearance and potentially need less plastic surgery later. Maybe that is more important for M-F rather than F-M, since observationally it seems like testosterone is pretty powerful and sort of a double edged sword for trans people, where it is hard to undo the effect of years of it for M-F, but maybe it allows a F-M to catch up a little better since no one really questions the gender of someone with a full beard, even if they are 5'2". Again, maybe I am incorrect. 

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Yeah, so it turns out that some of the effects of hormone treatment are irreversible, which is why it's such a scary decision for a lot of parents.  It isn't quite as simple as you make it out to be.  With that said, there are different tools they can use to block puberty and those are reversible.  So for younger kids that can be a good option -- just delay puberty until you're sure what puberty you want to have.  That's not an option for Peter though, he already went through puberty so in addition to the hormone treatment he expects to at some point have top surgery at least.

rockaction said:

Anybody here ever hear of apotemnophilia? I started a thread on it once. It's when you feel like a limb is wrongly attached to your body and you wish to amputate it. I believe they won't even put it in the DSM-V after having it in the DSM-IV, because the remedy was striking. Patients felt better after the removal of the limb. I guess a theoretical thought experiment would be this: We no longer recognize body identity integrity disorder because the results and therapeutic cure galls us.

Why should surgery to reassign sex characteristics not be viewed this way? Indeed, the first searches of apotemnophilia find that the experience of the person experiencing what they view as not feeling "whole" or feeling "trans-abled" is remarkably similar to gender dysphoia. So why will we neither recognize body identity integrity disorder nor include it at all in our medical manuals despite the urging of doctors and health care professionals? 

I would venture that it's purely sociopolitical, and that we'd find the answer there. Questions that we dare not ask, anyway.

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 It's an interesting discussion and medical views aren't static in any of these areas.  It wasn't very long ago when being trans was considered to be a mental disorder and the general medical consensus was that such people should get conversion therapy.  But many years of experience with the trans population showed that was a poor approach.  There's a wealth of evidence showing that people are much happier and lead better lives when they take medical steps to make their gender appearance congruent with their gender identity. 

I don't know enough about apotemnophilia to know whether it's possible there could be a rethinking of that as well.  Maybe someday the recommended treatment will be to remove the limb, I have no idea.

AAABatteries said:

Fatguy- we’ve all known what a stand up guy you are - smart, funny and a loving Father.  Kudos to you and good luck to Peter.

I’ll add to Tom’s post with a question that hopefully comes out the way I intend it.  As a parent of four, I’ve always felt that unconditional love is a key ingredient of what we are called to do.  But I also feel we are to help challenge and push back on our kids with their decision making.  Allowing them to make their own choices but with guidance is something I’m a believer in.  So, my question - in this situation did you push back at all?  Did you question Peter around his mindset or thought process?  I’ve thought about a scenario like this around one of my kids coming out and I honestly don’t know if that’s the best approach.  I would worry about them feeling attacked or not being accepted.  Just curious your thought process and how you handled that.  Apologies if I missed any comments around this aspect.

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I did very little if any of what you would describe as pushback.  I think it's easiest to explain why in two different stages:

1) When he initially talked to me about it, it was obvious to me that I was way out of my depth.  Peter has been thinking and reading and talking about this stuff for a long time.  He knew all the terminology, he knew all the details about medical transitions, he was pretty much an expert.  And of course he was intimately familiar with how he was feeling inside. He had bounced this stuff around in his head for a long time and had really thought everything through.  I knew basically nothing.   I felt woefully uninformed to take any sort of position about anything Peter was telling me.  So I mostly just listened and asked questions and tried my best to understand.

2) Then I tried to educate myself.  I read and watched a bunch of online stuff, ordered a couple books on Amazon.  And everything I read seemed to confirm what Peter was telling me.  And all the advice was that the sort of push back that a lot of parents engage in (i.e. "you're not really trans!" or "you should wait until you get older to decide anything") can actually be very hurtful and damaging to the kid and could negatively impact the parent-child relationship.  So I just asked even more questions of Peter.  And every time I did I got an answer that was thoughtful and considered.    I've always had a lot of trust in Peter and this is no different. 

I'm convinced he's thought this through carefully and is competent to make his own decisions.  No push back was ever really necessary.  I can't say how I would have reacted if I had a different sort of kid that gave me reason to be skeptical.

eoMMan said:

That being said, are you at least a little concerned that maybe this decision is being influenced a little bit by the best friend? When was the earliest that Peter thought about this?

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I'm not.  The idea that someone would choose to do this for that reason just seems so implausible to me.  

Peter told me he's always felt something was off but that he really started thinking and learning about it only within the last year or two.  

Deamon said:

Will you ever show him this thread?

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Yeah, I actually asked permission from Peter before starting this thread because I didn't know how he would feel about it.  He had no issues with it.  He read through the first page or so of the thread a couple days ago, not sure if he's come back to read more or not, but he has the link so he can come back any time.

Well Peter, you have a lot of love and support here! Wish you all the happiness in the world! Xx

fatguyinalittlecoat said:

fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I guess in hindsight there are probably some things I could point to that now look like they were clues, but the truth is we really had no idea.  Peter himself says he only came to the realization within the last couple years.  When he was 11 and living as a female he came out to my then-wife and I as a lesbian.  I think my ex-wife has struggled with this in part because Peter definitely had a few years where he was interested in "girly" stuff like makeup and dresses.  Peter now says that he took an interest in those things to overcompensate -- he wanted to fit in so he tried to act the way he thought a girl was supposed to act.  

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I will say that just in the last month or so I feel like his being out has given him greater permission to just be himself.  And even though I still screw up and use the wrong name or pronoun all the time, I definitely see him in a different way than I used to.  I see him as a male.  It's off-putting to me when I'm talking to my mother and I have to go back to using the wrong name and pronouns. 

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I understand why people think, oh maybe this is just a phase.  Kids go through phases.  It sounds like he took his time figuring things out.  I think it's fair to say that this isn't something he is taking lightly. But I understand that immediate reaction. Being honest, it was one of my first thoughts the first time I dealt with a kid saying they thought they were bisexual.  It isn't dismissive or mean spirited. It's just our parental instincts to make sure kids don't do anything to hurt themselves because they  don't know better. Which is fine with little kids, but at some point you have to respect who they are. That's difficult when we're confronted with things we don't understand. 

And it was difficult for Peter. It took him years to really figure it out.

He needs to be aware that it might take other people time to figure this out, too. And that their first reaction might not be their best, but that shouldn't matter. 

I think a lot of people have a hard time understanding something like this, because most of us process life by comparing new experiences to our own past experiences. When we run into something we haven't personally experienced, we naturally try to put it in a convenient box - this is like that time I did this, or saw that, or someone I know did this.

And that's a really important skill - being able to draw on our experiences in general allows us to learn faster, and being able to do it quickly can literally be the difference between life or death - but it also means that people can say or do things they shouldn't when they are confronted with new things.  

When people first hear about something like this they might need time to process it.  Just like Peter, did when he was dealing with this. Wait -  does he say talia for the first years of her life, and Peter once he made the transition?  If he looks at a picture of his early life, wearing a dress at age 5, which pronoun is correct?  I don't know the answer - I think that's something he would need to figure out if he hasn't already. But it's not an insensitive thing to ask (I hope!) even though it could definitely feel that way.

Part of Peter's experience was figuring out who he is.  And that's a really important thing to figure out that a lot of people never do. It's a difficult thing to process and it's scary to come out and say it and he's a brave kid. 

The next step will be figuring out who he wants to be.  I don't mean which gender, I mean how he chooses to interact with people about this complex thing he's dealing with. There will be a lot of difficult situations, and questions to answer. 

Like the first time a kid at school says, wait, weren't you a girl before?  Does he get mad?  I hope not. Feel ashamed?  He shouldn't.  So how do you want to answer that? I might say "no, I was always Peter, you just didn't know it. But that's ok, because neither didnI". Or "yes when I was in school last year I was called Talia because that's how I was raised but I realized that that's not who I am. It was difficult for me at first but I'm really comfortable with who I am now and I hope you can be too." Or "no, that's my sister she fell off a cliff and died". I probably wouldn't do that last one tbh but there would be times it was tempting. 

What do you do with bathrooms?  Go to the men's room? Women's room? Wait until nobody is around?  How will you handle difficult situations when someone says they are uncomfortable? 

What about periods? I have no idea how this impacts menstrual cycles or what his experience will be. 

You have a rare opportunity to discuss these things while he's not at school, and not hiding anything from anyone, but also not being thrust into these situations without having a chance to talk about them first. So my thought would be to talk about it from that perspective. Not the logistics, or are you sure, or I love you regardless, but the things that someone who loves you unconditionally can really help you dig into. 

fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I did very little if any of what you would describe as pushback.  I think it's easiest to explain why in two different stages:

1) When he initially talked to me about it, it was obvious to me that I was way out of my depth.  Peter has been thinking and reading and talking about this stuff for a long time.  He knew all the terminology, he knew all the details about medical transitions, he was pretty much an expert.  And of course he was intimately familiar with how he was feeling inside. He had bounced this stuff around in his head for a long time and had really thought everything through.  I knew basically nothing.   I felt woefully uninformed to take any sort of position about anything Peter was telling me.  So I mostly just listened and asked questions and tried my best to understand.

2) Then I tried to educate myself.  I read and watched a bunch of online stuff, ordered a couple books on Amazon.  And everything I read seemed to confirm what Peter was telling me.  And all the advice was that the sort of push back that a lot of parents engage in (i.e. "you're not really trans!" or "you should wait until you get older to decide anything") can actually be very hurtful and damaging to the kid and could negatively impact the parent-child relationship.  So I just asked even more questions of Peter.  And every time I did I got an answer that was thoughtful and considered.    I've always had a lot of trust in Peter and this is no different. 

I'm convinced he's thought this through carefully and is competent to make his own decisions.  No push back was ever really necessary.  I can't say how I would have reacted if I had a different sort of kid that gave me reason to be skeptical.

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Thanks for the reply.  Your comment confirms my reaction to the situation - and it goes without saying that a child being trans is not even in the same zip code as “Dad, I want to spend my college money on X”.

Peter, if you are reading this, you should know what a great Dad you have and we are all rooting for you - good luck!

bostonfred said:

Like the first time a kid at school says, wait, weren't you a girl before?  Does he get mad?  I hope not. Feel ashamed?  He shouldn't.  So how do you want to answer that? I might say "no, I was always Peter, you just didn't know it. But that's ok, because neither didnI". Or "yes when I was in school last year I was called Talia because that's how I was raised but I realized that that's not who I am. It was difficult for me at first but I'm really comfortable with who I am now and I hope you can be too." Or "no, that's my sister she fell off a cliff and died". I probably wouldn't do that last one tbh but there would be times it was tempting. 

What do you do with bathrooms?  Go to the men's room? Women's room? Wait until nobody is around?  How will you handle difficult situations when someone says they are uncomfortable? 

What about periods? I have no idea how this impacts menstrual cycles or what his experience will be. 

You have a rare opportunity to discuss these things while he's not at school, and not hiding anything from anyone, but also not being thrust into these situations without having a chance to talk about them first. So my thought would be to talk about it from that perspective. Not the logistics, or are you sure, or I love you regardless, but the things that someone who loves you unconditionally can really help you dig into. 

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Thanks for the post fred, thoughtful as always.  In response to some of your more specific questions:

1) Yes, Peter will undoubtedly experience some moments with people that say rude, offensive or malicious things.  In my judgment he's well prepared to handle it.  The kid hangs out in trans forums on reddit and 4Chan, he knows about trolls and jerks.  And we're lucky to live in a pretty tolerant community so my guess is that those sorts of incidents won't be too frequent.  At least I hope so.

2) I think long term the bathroom thing is just going to be a non-issue.  He's gonna look like a man, of course he's going to use a men's bathroom.  You want some dude with a beard going in the women's room?  With that said, I don't know exactly how the bathroom situation works at high school.  As mentioned there are other trans kids there I'm sure there must be some accommodation. 

3) The testosterone stops menstruation.  So he won't have to deal with periods after that, which is a good thing because I've heard they suck, especially when you're a dude.

Late here, but have always enjoyed your contributions. Please don't take the following as criticism but rather as another parent trying to help.  

I have an 18yo daughter and an almost 15yo son.  When they want something, they want it now--their generation seems to have less patience than ours.  The decision you're helping Peter contemplate is a life altering decision which, at some point, he won't be able to reverse if he decides he's made a mistake.  His brain won't be fully developed until he's in his mid-20s.  While I think you should be fully supportive of him as you can, you also need to be a parent and ensure his transitioning is the correct thing for him long term.

My wife has a close friend whose son (19) is transitioning to female.  I recognize there are many specialized people and programs dedicated to helping families and people navigate these questions.  However, I'd take the advice of anyone with specialized expertise with a grain of salt--you need to be aware of the inherent bias that may come with their opinions.  I believe that bias can sometimes include encouraging people to transition before they've made a completely informed decision.  Again, the above is my anecdotal opinion not backed by any scientific experience.

I wish you and your family the best while navigating these waters.  Peter is lucky to have such a supportive father.

Oh, when I was hanging out with Peter yesterday we talked about this thread.  He told me that I left out some important info when posters were suggesting that maybe he was possibly being influenced by his trans friend.  Peter's friend was assigned male at birth.  They are going in opposite directions.  This is a paraphrase but Peter said something like  "I don't understand [friend's name] at ALL! Why would my friend transitioning away from being male influence me to be male?"

He does make a good point.  Stupid punk kid telling me how to post at FBGs, I've been doing this since before he was born. 

chet said:

I'd take the advice of anyone with specialized expertise with a grain of salt--you need to be aware of the inherent bias that may come with their opinions.  I believe that bias can sometimes include encouraging people to transition before they've made a completely informed decision.  

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It's not like these doctors are out recruiting kids -- every kid that comes in there has taken some really hard steps just to make it through the door.  It wouldn't surprise me to learn that starting hormones was the appropriate treatment for many of the kids they see.  That's not them pushing any agenda other than good medicine. 

chet said:

When they want something, they want it now--their generation seems to have less patience than ours.

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Just want to point out that this has been true of every generation. If you asked my folks 25 years ago, they would have said this same thing.

fatguyinalittlecoat said:

It's not like these doctors are out recruiting kids -- every kid that comes in there has taken some really hard steps just to make it through the door.  It wouldn't surprise me to learn that starting hormones was the appropriate treatment for many of the kids they see.  That's not them pushing any agenda other than good medicine. 

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I agree but not every kid who's taken those incredibly difficult steps should be prescribed hormone therapy.  There's not a diagnostic to definitively say they should proceed and therefore the decision will come down to some sort of qualitative interpretation.  My opinion is that it's possible and perhaps likely that the professionals who are trained in this specific area may have a bias toward suggesting hormone therapy for kids who might not be ready.  Again, my uninformed opinion not based on any scientific evidence.

What sex is Peter attracted to? 

eoMMan said:

What sex is Peter attracted to? 

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Females.  Peter actually came out to us years ago as a lesbian before he had figured out his gender issues.

chet said:

I agree but not every kid who's taken those incredibly difficult steps should be prescribed hormone therapy.  There's not a diagnostic to definitively say they should proceed and therefore the decision will come down to some sort of qualitative interpretation.  My opinion is that it's possible and perhaps likely that the professionals who are trained in this specific area may have a bias toward suggesting hormone therapy for kids who might not be ready.  Again, my uninformed opinion not based on any scientific evidence.

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LOL.

the moops said:

Just want to point out that this has been true of every generation. If you asked my folks 25 years ago, they would have said this same thing.

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this might even be older than death itself

mr. furley said:

this might even be older than death itself

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Can I get that right now?

General Malaise said:

Can I get that right now?

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i heard it's the hot trend for 2020. lost of people are doing it. 

Sorry for the late response here.  Before heading out of town for the long weekend, I'd asked the Dean of Students at my university about how our school works with trans students. We're a smaller Catholic university (~2,200 UG; 1,600 grad) in the near-west suburbs of Chicago.  (I'm an accounting professor at the school.)  Here is her full response:

"Each institution will have different ways they approach this, particularly when you look at Catholic institutions.  Unfortunately, the guidance from The Department of Ed is also shifting with the administration and protection for individuals based on gender identity.   Most institutions of higher education are very inclusive and further along in resources than other industries.

I can say at <our school> we are updating our admission application to allow students to identify a Gender – we will still ask the binary sex question as well.  Our housing application for the last few years does have a statement that we respect each student’s identity and we will house students according to the sex they identify on the housing application.  Students would be housed based on how they identify.  We do not make a disclosure to a roommate.  We also have identified wings in <one of the residence halls>  that have All Gender bathrooms and ask students if they would want to live in a Gender Inclusive community to help set expectations and standards about the respect of the individual person and all identities.  We also have a recognized student organization, Common Ground, that is for the LGBTQIA community.

I would be happy to talk to your friend if that would be helpful.  Or if you have questions or would rather have a discussion to have some clarity on what I shared.  It is a very grey area because of the Catholic identity.  We use Catholic Social Teaching and the dignity of each person to frame our inclusive perspective."