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Joe Bryant

Question For People Not Planning To Vote For Trump - 4 More Years?

For Non Trump Supporters - Would you trade another 4 years of Donald Trump in exchange for a revitalized economy and an end to the coronavirus?  

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10 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

Would love to see both Trump and Biden dumped and get some real candidates in there.

Would not bother me either, but talk about living in a fantasy world.

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To me this boils down to will you sell your personal ethics for money.  Look I respect the office of the President, however I am not sure as a country we can handle 4 more years of the same crap.  Maybe if we had a Dem Senate with House.

 But in this simple question of booming economy/C19 verse the lack of ethics/compassion/lies/personal enrichment/borderline dictator.

Its a close call.. but I do value human life so would lean yes.. however its not a decision that I would be happy with.  

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1 hour ago, tommyGunZ said:

It’s not a pivot, it’s part of Joe’s hypothetical. 4 more years of Trump means he has the nuke codes. That’s absolutely a part considering this hypothetical, unless the magic wand also wipes the codes away as well.  

:lmao:  A hypothetical clearly outlines what is and what isn't hypothetical, all other variables are assumed to remain the same.  No where did Joe say, "and Trump nukes Russia!". The nuke codes can be assumed as relevant as they were the first 4 years.  

 

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57 minutes ago, Green Balloons said:

A revitalized. or even flat, economy is one thing.  Ending or curing COVID19 almost certainly means saving the lives of millions of people worldwide.   That's one hell of a loaded question.


ETA

Can I get a guarantee that 4 more years of Trump and a COVID19 cure doesn't lead to WW3 or lead to an outright dictatorship in the US?  Interesting question but way too many variables.

You can assume WW3 and US dictatorship are the same probably as they were the last 50 years.  Nearly zero.  

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I completely get the replies saying this is a ridiculous hypothetical but I tried to give Joe's poll a chance and voted "Absolutely Yes" - my reasoning is fairly simple.  I expect the Fall to be worse and we will eventually end up with 200-250k people die.  Trump is horrible........I'm probably naive but I see the Covid deaths and economic disaster as worse than 4 more years.

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27 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

I completely get the replies saying this is a ridiculous hypothetical but I tried to give Joe's poll a chance and voted "Absolutely Yes" - my reasoning is fairly simple.  I expect the Fall to be worse and we will eventually end up with 200-250k people die.  Trump is horrible........I'm probably naive but I see the Covid deaths and economic disaster as worse than 4 more years.

:goodposting:

And better argument for voting NO would be that you don't think the Covid or Economy is that big of deal.  I'm optimistic we're on the downslope and medical breakthroughs are around the corner.  I know the unemployment is horrible, but the market is stable and a lot of people are about to get back to work.  (RIP the restaurant owners and the like that were unnecessary casualties in this whole thing).  Surprised to see no one taking this route.  

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1 hour ago, avoiding injuries said:

People can’t even vote in a poll without arguing about it. Geez

It’s bizarro world here 

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3 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

No. That's part of it. It's a hypothetical like Tim said knowing the things he said would happen.

I think this has been enlightening. 

I also think it would be interesting to ask the question the other way for Trump supporters: "Would you trade 4 years of Joe Biden as President in exchange for a revitalized economy and an end to the coronavirus?"

This version doesn't take any magic thinking, just requires time.  

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1 hour ago, tonydead said:

A hypothetical clearly outlines what is and what isn't hypothetical, all other variables are assumed to remain the same.  No where did Joe say, "and Trump nukes Russia!". The nuke codes can be assumed as relevant as they were the first 4 years.  

Oh come on!   The trade off of four years of Trump doesn't mean we are afraid he will just golf and send out tweets but are measuring whether his destruction of this country and what it stands for and its ability to function continues linearly or accelerates the downward spiral.   The non zero probability that Trump nukes someone in the midst of  hissy fit is of course part of the equation.

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4 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

This question is the type of post that leads to a degradation of the PSF.

Congrats?  :shrug:

 For someone who proposes to want people to work together across the aisle and find more common ground to start a thread like this is insanity. 

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3 hours ago, Summer Wheat said:

Would love to see both Trump and Biden dumped and get some real candidates in there.

Congratulations Summer Wheat, you have the most intelligent post in this thread. Although the bar was set incredibly low. 

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COVID and the economy are lowlights for sure, but there’s plenty of additional awful stuff which will take years to undo imo so no way.

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16 hours ago, tommyGunZ said:

It’s not a pivot, it’s part of Joe’s hypothetical. 4 more years of Trump means he has the nuke codes. That’s absolutely a part considering this hypothetical, unless the magic wand also wipes the codes away as well.  

Correct. 4 more years of Trump in the hypothetical means exactly that. He'd still have the nuclear codes in this question. 

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Lol at the hand wringing over a hypothetical on a message board. The inability to provide the only logical answer to something that can't even happen is just too telling. I thought Dems were truly most concerned first and foremost about saving lives? A hypothetical that saves many lives instantly on the health side and saves many more lives going forward on the socioeconomic side is a no-brainer if saving lives is the priority. Apparently though, that isn't the top priority going by the replies. You know, you all could've just lied to keep up that illusion. No one is watching this thread with the power to turn this hypothetical into reality.

I missed this yesterday but it was a good exercise Joe, so thank you.

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1 hour ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Lol at the hand wringing over a hypothetical on a message board. The inability to provide the only logical answer to something that can't even happen is just too telling. I thought Dems were truly most concerned first and foremost about saving lives? A hypothetical that saves many lives instantly on the health side and saves many more lives going forward on the socioeconomic side is a no-brainer if saving lives is the priority. Apparently though, that isn't the top priority going by the replies. You know, you all could've just lied to keep up that illusion. No one is watching this thread with the power to turn this hypothetical into reality.

I missed this yesterday but it was a good exercise Joe, so thank you.

Joe, do you see now why your question was inane? 

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17 minutes ago, Challenge Everything said:

And, now, Trump is not going to release economic numbers. Talk about transparency... or other crap that goes down in an election year. He has been a disgrace to our country in just about every way imaginable. There is no defense of him or his policies. None.

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I went with absolutely no. Other problems will always arise and, imo, Trump seems more likely to make them worse instead of better. I would rather trust humanity's ability to deal with the current problem (admittedly a big one) over Trump's ability to handle new problems that arise during the next Presidential term.

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Posted (edited)

The scenario that Democrats are Dreading.....(Politico 05/26/2020)

"In early April, Jason Furman, a top economist in the Obama administration and now a professor at Harvard, was speaking via Zoom to a large bipartisan group of top officials from both parties. The economy had just been shut down, unemployment was spiking and some policymakers were predicting an era worse than the Great Depression. The economic carnage seemed likely to doom President Donald Trump’s chances at reelection.

“We are about to see the best economic data we’ve seen in the history of this country,” he said.

The former Cabinet secretaries and Federal Reserve chairs in the Zoom boxes were confused, though some of the Republicans may have been newly relieved and some of the Democrats suddenly concerned.

“Everyone looked puzzled and thought I had misspoken,” Furman said in an interview. Instead of forecasting a prolonged Depression-level economic catastrophe, Furman laid out a detailed case for why the months preceding the November election could offer Trump the chance to brag — truthfully — about the most explosive monthly employment numbers and gross domestic product growth ever.

Since the Zoom call, Furman has been making the same case to anyone who will listen, especially the close-knit network of Democratic wonks who have traversed the Clinton and Obama administrations together, including top members of the Biden campaign.

Furman’s counter intuitive pitch has caused some Democrats, especially Obama alumni, around Washington to panic. “This is my big worry,” said a former Obama White House official who is still close to the former president. Asked about the level of concern among top party officials, he said, “It’s high — high, high, high, high.

.... Trump could be poised to benefit from the dramatic numbers produced during the partial rebound phase that is likely to coincide with the four months before November.

That realization has many Democrats spooked."

 

...seriously...the Democrats are "spooked" by the idea that things may get better ?
THAT's your Democrat Party!

Edited by Opie
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35 minutes ago, Opie said:

The scenario that Democrats are Dreading.....(Politico 05/26/2020)

"In early April, Jason Furman, a top economist in the Obama administration and now a professor at Harvard, was speaking via Zoom to a large bipartisan group of top officials from both parties. The economy had just been shut down, unemployment was spiking and some policymakers were predicting an era worse than the Great Depression. The economic carnage seemed likely to doom President Donald Trump’s chances at reelection.

“We are about to see the best economic data we’ve seen in the history of this country,” he said.

The former Cabinet secretaries and Federal Reserve chairs in the Zoom boxes were confused, though some of the Republicans may have been newly relieved and some of the Democrats suddenly concerned.

“Everyone looked puzzled and thought I had misspoken,” Furman said in an interview. Instead of forecasting a prolonged Depression-level economic catastrophe, Furman laid out a detailed case for why the months preceding the November election could offer Trump the chance to brag — truthfully — about the most explosive monthly employment numbers and gross domestic product growth ever.

Since the Zoom call, Furman has been making the same case to anyone who will listen, especially the close-knit network of Democratic wonks who have traversed the Clinton and Obama administrations together, including top members of the Biden campaign.

Furman’s counter intuitive pitch has caused some Democrats, especially Obama alumni, around Washington to panic. “This is my big worry,” said a former Obama White House official who is still close to the former president. Asked about the level of concern among top party officials, he said, “It’s high — high, high, high, high.

.... Trump could be poised to benefit from the dramatic numbers produced during the partial rebound phase that is likely to coincide with the four months before November.

That realization has many Democrats spooked."

 

...seriously...the Democrats are "spooked" by the idea that things may get better ?
THAT's your Democrat Party!

There is already a thread and poll about this article...if you read that thread and even that discussion...the worry is not about things getting better...its the outcome of Trump remaining in power.  The worry is Trump in power...not wishing bad things happen for others.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

There is already a thread and poll about this article...if you read that thread and even that discussion...the worry is not about things getting better...its the outcome of Trump remaining in power.  The worry is Trump in power...not wishing bad things happen for others.

...and the outcome of things getting better could keep President Trump in office.....which would be bad.

Am I missing something?

Edited by Opie

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44 minutes ago, Opie said:

...seriously...the Democrats are "spooked" by the idea that things may get better ?

I think the idea is that they are spooked that things getting better will be short-lived and the longer-term effects will be that things get worse. It's similar to the idea of tanking in sports. The view is probably analogous to a team going through short-term tough times in order to improve their ability for long-term success.

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Went with barely yes.* Without giving it too much thought, I'd assume the long-term effects of Trump remaining as president will be outweighed by the benefits of the returned economy and no coronavirus. But, I can't say that i don't have reservations. I do worry that the lasting impact of a president of Trump's demeanor may set back political discourse within the country and hurt our representation on the global scale. It's hard to project just how damaging those impacts will be. And, frankly, I don't think it's irrational to contemplate the idea that it could be risky to have this guy in charge of the most powerful military and weaponry on the planet for four more years. 

 

 

*I'm assuming the flip side of the hypothetical is that if I say no and another president is elected that the confines of the hypo require that the virus and the bad economy don't go away for four years. 

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Silly question. Would you draft James Conner in the 1st round of fantasy drafts if it is guaranteed he puts up 1800 yards and 15TDs?  

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3 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Silly question. Would you draft James Conner in the 1st round of fantasy drafts if it is guaranteed he puts up 1800 yards and 15TDs?  

Based on this thread this is the answer for the majority in this forum:  First I need to know if he supports Trump. If so, i''ll pass and pick a guy I know has no chance at even 500 yards and 3 TDs and hates Trump because I can't have a guy succeeding on my team if he supports Trump. 

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On 5/27/2020 at 6:59 PM, Osaurus said:

COVID and the economy are lowlights for sure, but there’s plenty of additional awful stuff which will take years to undo imo so no way.

Yup, he's horrible in many ways and shouldn't be the man kids look up to as president. 

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1 minute ago, lod001 said:

Based on this thread this is the answer for the majority in this forum:  First I need to know if he supports Trump. If so, i''ll pass and pick a guy I know has no chance at even 500 yards and 3 TDs and hates Trump because I can't have a guy succeeding on my team if he supports Trump. 

I can imagine. I don’t even want to read the responses because it’s just such a fantasy land question. It can’t do anything but cause people to argue about something that is complete fantasy. We have plenty of real things to argue and disagree about. 

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And who's to say we don't have another pandemic in a few years....not covid19...that Trump once again doesn't have the country ready for?

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30 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

Well nobody is perfect.

I'd like to say nobody is always wrong but Trump is batting damn near 1.000 overall. His OBP is off the charts though. MVP numbers.

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7 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

And who's to say we don't have another pandemic in a few years....not covid19...that Trump once again doesn't have the country ready for?

Trump in 2022, if he's President, "Obama left the shelves bare. There was no stockpile."

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On 5/27/2020 at 1:03 PM, Juxtatarot said:

I think I'll take a gamble on the unknown and Biden.

I'll take what's in the box Monty. 

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This is such an ethical and loaded moral question.  

Am I too assume Trump doesn't empower white supremacists in his final four years, or start a war, or drive more people into poverty, or have more work place accidents, and what's the human count of doing nothing on climate change (even actively promoting against it).

Plus am i too assume that someone else, say Mitt Romney, isn't capable of these things?  

I'm not sure why anyone would answer this

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On 5/28/2020 at 8:39 PM, Challenge Everything said:

I'd like to say nobody is always wrong but Trump is batting damn near 1.000 overall. His OBP is off the charts though. MVP numbers.

I'm guessing in this scenario, OBP stands for off-base percentage, since he's apparently allergic to telling the truth.

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28 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

I'll take what's in the box Monty. 

This goes double if you peaked behind the curtain and saw the alternative.

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Before COVID when the economy was good, there was no way I was going to vote for Trump. Why would that change after seeing how horrible he’s managed both COVID and now with the protests and riots?

My answer might be different if 4 more years of Trump was the ONLY way to get past COVID and get the economy back on track.

But there’s bigger problems with Trump than just the economy and COVID. Maybe COVID and the economy are fixed but what’s the next Molotov cocktail that gets thrown into the eternal powder keg that is Donald Trump? Will it be a widespread environmental crisis due to all the deregulation? Or an expansion of his abuses of power? No thanks, I’ll roll with Biden or literally anyone else even if it means a slower economic recovery.

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36 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

Before COVID when the economy was good, there was no way I was going to vote for Trump. Why would that change after seeing how horrible he’s managed both COVID and now with the protests and riots?

My answer might be different if 4 more years of Trump was the ONLY way to get past COVID and get the economy back on track.

But there’s bigger problems with Trump than just the economy and COVID. Maybe COVID and the economy are fixed but what’s the next Molotov cocktail that gets thrown into the eternal powder keg that is Donald Trump? Will it be a widespread environmental crisis due to all the deregulation? Or an expansion of his abuses of power? No thanks, I’ll roll with Biden or literally anyone else even if it means a slower economic recovery.

Honestly, even if Trump was the only way to fix everything, I wouldn't vote for him. I won't go into a list of everything he's done wrong, but if he gets 4 more years, it'll be even worse than what we've seen, and I could not look my children in their eyes and be able to explain why I voted for Trump, if I had.

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please tell me Steve King is actually losing his primary

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