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Death Of George Floyd - Sticking To Football... (1 Viewer)

How Ok Is It For Joe To Mention Death Of George Floyd In FBG Email Update?

  • Totally OK

    Votes: 82 51.6%

  • OK

    Votes: 35 22.0%

  • Just Barely OK

    Votes: 1 0.6%

  • On The Fence

    Votes: 14 8.8%

  • Just Barely Not OK

    Votes: 3 1.9%

  • Not OK

    Votes: 15 9.4%

  • Totally Not OK

    Votes: 9 5.7%
  • Total voters
    159
Joe Bryant

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
With the Daily Email Update, I stick to football about 99.9% of the time. 

Last night I did not. http://footballguys.com/updates/20update43.php

I opened with this.

Howdy Folks,

Good Sunday to you.

Please forgive me but I'm going to get a little bit personal. I "stick to football" 99.9% of the time. But I've also pledged to be your "Guide" on this Fantasy Football deal. And this feels important. And for sure, I'm talking to myself here first.

I'm sad about the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis. I talk a lot about "Empathy" and "We're all in this together". Both of those apply here. This isn't about being "woke". Or some kind of "White Guilt", whatever that is. This is about being human. This is about giving a damn.

I'll never fully and completely understand what my Black friends go through and have gone through.

What I can do is show empathy. To at least try to understand. What I can do is listen to them. And listen to others who are exposing parts of our world people of my race and people who live in my neighborhood may minimize. Or even ignore.

We can't ignore this if we truly believe the second thing - "We're all in this together". Let's be clear - I don't mean "All of us that I like and that look like me and think like me and won't challenge me are all in this together." I mean all of us. In the South, we say "Y'all means all". That has to be the case here too.

So if we're going to practice empathy, we'll see the news of a man killed in Minneapolis hits some of us "all" in a different and more profound way. And that matters a lot. Ram Dass said, "We're all just walking each other home at night". I believe that to be true.

To my Black friends and People Of Color, in whatever this may look like, I'm with you. We're with you.

Most of my friends are white like me. I'm guessing most of the folks reading this are too. To you my friends, and I hope you'll allow me to call you a friend as that's how I see it, I'm begging us, especially me, to be empathetic. And to act like we're truly all in this together. Like we're truly walking each other at home at night. I'm praying for peace and grace and strength and courage and wisdom to move forward here and make a change. Much love for y'all. Thank you for allowing me to be honest with you and share my heart.

Now, let's please switch gears and get to the content you've signed up for. We've got some great new content for you plus the News and Notes.

Let's go.
Click to expand...
And then the other 95% of the email was all on Football.

To be clear, I FULLY understand people read my content because of Football. Fully understand. It's why I stick to football 99.9% of the time. This question is about this .1% of the time.

Obviously, I received a lot of feedback by email. I always interested in getting a read on what people think. Even after the fact. I don't have any plans to change anything going forward. But I also was wondering what you folks thought here? Thanks.

Edit to add - For sure I think it's OK to send. I wouldn't have sent otherwise. I'm interested in what you think. 

 
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Voted totally OK. With that said, like Covid, when I get emails from businesses concerning this, I delete them without reading them.

 
Just barely ok.  I think certain news events require us to take a step back from hobbies.  I think this is one of them though I don't really have a great idea where the line is.  

 
Is it OK?  I mean it is your business, I don't get to make that call.  I prefer you didn't.

 It isn't that your perspective isn't just as important as anyone else' - but football and fantasy football are traditionally places I look to to unplug from this stuff.  We have 3 dozen 24 hour news companies drowning us in it.

In the end, I just don't read it.

 
matuski said:
Is it OK?  I mean it is your business, I don't get to make that call.  I prefer you didn't.

 It isn't that your perspective isn't just as important as anyone else' - but football and fantasy football are traditionally places I look to to unplug from this stuff.  We have 3 dozen 24 hour news companies drowning us in it.

In the end, I just don't read it.
Click to expand...
Yes, I think it's OK or I wouldn't have sent it.

I'm asking what folks here think. I totally get the "unplug" from the rest of "real" world stuff. 

And I think you're right, I think most people just skip over it if they don't want to read it. 

 
There’s nothing wrong with it, but I always skip it when businesses send things like this.  Same with Goodell’s statement yesterday on the riots.  Like, why would I care what he thinks?
 

He’s the commissioner of the nfl.  Outside of that role, his opinion on the riots and protests means absolutely as much as the opinion of any of those protesters.

Im actually more interested in your opinion because we’ve interacted in the forums for years, so I’ve grown to appreciate your position.  But hopefully this provides some perspective on why these types of statements by business owners can at times ring hollow.

 
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I voted OK---as it is your business.  With that said--I think there is a difference between asking if it's okay versus asking your customer base if they'd like to see it there.  I just skip stuff over that doesn't interest me--but I know that there are a lot of people that prefer that the businesses that they patron just stay in their lanes and don't try to inject any political or social justice stuff in there. 

 
i read it before this question and didn't mind at all. I think it's a very difficult and sensitive issue, though. I don't know if I could have artfully put it well enough to paper to do it.

 
Totally OK. You understand the ramifications of doing it.

Peter King gets hammered every week for including a few non-NFL social/political issues in his MMQB column. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
[scooter] said:
Some people are going to interpret this as "We're NOT with white people".
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but I don't understand. 

How would they interpret it that way?

Who is not with white people? And how would they arrive at that conclusion?
Click to expand...
When someone says "I'm with X", it kind of implies that they're not with Y -- especially when X and Y are opposite positions, or when X and Y are opponents.

 
I voted "OK," and I think it is.  I generally prefer when businesses stick to business and don't delve too far into world and news stories, but there are exceptions, and this is one of them. 

 
 I skimmed it quickly on my way down to the FF content and didn't really feel any kind of way about it but now that you mention it, I think that a forum post would have sufficed.

 
[scooter] said:
When someone says "I'm with X", it kind of implies that they're not with Y -- especially when X and Y are opposite positions, or when X and Y are opponents.
Click to expand...
White people and black people are opposites and opponents? What a weird position. I mean, the only groups I know of that hold that position are unabashed racists, is that the “some people” you were referring to?

 
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[scooter] said:
When someone says "I'm with X", it kind of implies that they're not with Y -- especially when X and Y are opposite positions, or when X and Y are opponents.
Click to expand...
Our culture has definitely trended towards becoming more binary.   Very generally speaking--many believe that you are either with one side or the other-- and the grey areas in the middle where there are many shared common interests are being abandoned or looked over.  When people only look at the differences and ignore the commonalities---it makes having conversations nearly impossible as they become instant stalemates.   No conversations means no progress or solution--and the issues will continue to devolve and spiral out of control.    

The key to moving forward is to invite civil conversation so that people can discuss both their commonalities and differences and move forward from there.   That's going to be very tough to do with technology and our availability  for positive affirmation.   If somebody believes in something--it is very easy for them to find groups of people who share the exact same interests and completely rid themselves of anybody or anything that god forbid looks at the same issues but has a slightly different point of view.   It's possible that the internet was designed to invite a more efficient way of exchanging ideas--but in reality--it's become a major driver for the opposite.   The times are definitely crazy. 

 
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GroveDiesel said:
[scooter] said:
When someone says "I'm with X", it kind of implies that they're not with Y -- especially when X and Y are opposite positions, or when X and Y are opponents.
Click to expand...
White people and black people are opposites and opponents? What a weird position. I mean, the only groups I know of that hold that position are unabashed racists, is that the “some people” you were referring to?
Click to expand...
I'm not just referring to the unabashed racists.

There are a lot of people out there who don't consider themselves to be racist, but are very bothered by any discussion that appears to "promote" one race over another.

Also, not every person agrees with, or even sympathizes with, the protesters.

That's not to say that all black people agree with the protesters, or that Joe agrees with the protesters. But when you say "I'm with you," there will be a not-insignificant-number of people who interpret that line as "I agree with the protesters."

 
Have you shared the same message directly (verbally) to others who are not FBG email subscribers?    I think that would be far more impactful.

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Our culture has definitely trended towards becoming more binary.   Very generally speaking--many believe that you are either with one side or the other-- and the grey areas in the middle where there are many shared common interests are being abandoned or looked over.  When people only look at the differences and ignore the commonalities---it makes having conversations nearly impossible as they become instant stalemates.   No conversations means no progress or solution--and the issues will continue to devolve and spiral out of control.    

The key to moving forward is to invite civil conversation so that people can discuss both their commonalities and differences and move forward from there.   That's going to be very tough to do with technology and our availability  for positive affirmation.   If somebody believes in something--it is very easy for them to find groups of people who share the exact same interests and completely rid themselves of anybody or anything that god forbid looks at the same issues but has a slightly different point of view.   It's possible that the internet was designed to invite a more efficient way of exchanging ideas--but in reality--it's become a major driver for the opposite.   The times are definitely crazy. 
Click to expand...
This is one of the biggest problems of today.  The extremes are the most vocal and the moderate middle are being lumped to one of the extremes depending which way of the middle you are leaning.  When you try and have a reasonable discussion you get pushed in with the far right/left and now all meaningful discussion is impossible.  

This kind of action is just pushing people further and further apart. Until this stops (which it looks like it will get worse before it gets better)

 
Gally said:
This is one of the biggest problems of today.  The extremes are the most vocal and the moderate middle are being lumped to one of the extremes depending which way of the middle you are leaning.  When you try and have a reasonable discussion you get pushed in with the far right/left and now all meaningful discussion is impossible.  

This kind of action is just pushing people further and further apart. Until this stops (which it looks like it will get worse before it gets better)
Click to expand...
Totally agree with this. And try espousing a middle ground view on one of the more polarizing problems in our country (take your pick abortion or gun control) I've been called a left wing loonie or a right wing nut on both of theses issues depending on who I am talking to. My viewpoint on issues most always fall into the middle grey area. I think most moderates or middle area people don't want to expend the energy arguing with extremists from either side.

 
RandyDB said:
Totally agree with this. And try espousing a middle ground view on one of the more polarizing problems in our country (take your pick abortion or gun control) I've been called a left wing loonie or a right wing nut on both of theses issues depending on who I am talking to. My viewpoint on issues most always fall into the middle grey area. I think most moderates or middle area people don't want to expend the energy arguing with extremists from either side.
Click to expand...
Exactly, and then you feel like you should start moving to the extreme because you are already being labeled as extreme.  

Heaven forbid you are left leaning on one topic and right leaning on another.  Depending on who you are talking to you end up being a communist or a Trumper.  Its a no win situation.

Until the middle (who are generally less vocal than the extremes) starting fighting for the middle things will continue to move further and further apart.  Being vocal is difficult when you feel like you are banging your head against a wall.

 
So a huge thread in the PSF isn't enough and now we have to clog up the FFA? 

Joe, this is your show and your call and you can put whatever you want in your emails, but by putting this thread in the FFA, all you are doing is asking for people to go off on polictical tangent and then you and the other mods have to clean it up.  

 
Second of all, Joe, how many people who received the newsletter are Black or People Of Color?

 
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Courtjester said:
So a huge thread in the PSF isn't enough and now we have to clog up the FFA? 

Joe, this is your show and your call and you can put whatever you want in your emails, but by putting this thread in the FFA, all you are doing is asking for people to go off on polictical tangent and then you and the other mods have to clean it up.  
Click to expand...
Thanks but not really. This has been a pretty good discussion I think with people replying to my question. :shrug:  

 
[scooter] said:
When someone says "I'm with X", it kind of implies that they're not with Y -- especially when X and Y are opposite positions, or when X and Y are opponents.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I don't assume it implies that at all. I think that's my point. I don't think X and Y are opposite positions at all. And certainly not opponents. But thanks for the feedback. 

 
As I expected, I also asked this question in the Shark Pool. https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/785863-death-of-george-floyd-sticking-to-football/

They were way less receptive to it. But that makes sense as folks there are much more focused on Football. I totally understand and expected that. 

And to be clear, there aren't any right or wrong answers. What people feel about me not sticking to football is entirely their choice. I'm simply curious how folks felt about it. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
I'm sorry but I don't understand. 

How would they interpret it that way?

Who is not with white people? And how would they arrive at that conclusion?
Click to expand...
There's a portion of this country who believes they are under attack as the field begins to level with time.  They don't like the changes happening in this country and when they see "I am with ______" and "_______" isn't them, they immediately assume you are against them.

 
Didn't think it was that political at all given the context, it was a pretty neutral email.  Have a hard time understanding why anyone would be offended by what was said, although I'm sure some were.   Think you did the right thing if that's how you were feeling.

 
If the question is really “is it ok?,” I say of course it is. Your service, your email, you can do as you like. 

If the question is whether you should do it, or how it would be perceived, those are different.   If in my Delta Skymiles update emails they started throwing in the CEOs personal views on race relations or these issues, I’d find it weird. Maybe unprofessional?  I can’t imagine sending my clients emails with my personal views on this stuff. It’s a great thing for me to maybe post on my Facebook to my friends and family if I want to. But as a professional message, it’s really not Delta’s place, or my place to tell people how I feel. So I think it depends on what you’re going for. If you intend for this to be perceived as an extended Facebook for you, that’s how it may be perceived. If you intend for it to be professional-level communication, it may seem weird. I’ve met you and know you through here for years, so I’m not offended or anything, and I think it’s fine. But I could hear someone thinking “great, fantasy football guy is now the authority on race relations and telling me what he thinks about it.”  Just like if my barber or Ace Hardware or someone else told me their views.  

In sum: Everyone I know on FB is taking the opportunity to share their views on this (some annoyingly so).  I’ve not received nor sent a professional level communication on it. 
 

Just my quick thoughts. Somewhat baked at least because I was thinking about this today in the context of my professional twitter feed. But I don’t have the answers on this. 

 
@Joe Bryant -

I've thought about this post all day. I've thought about the words I want to use to reply, because the last thing I want to do is disrespect you and the community you have built. Because the truth is, you have built an amazing community.

We are friends, foes, adversaries at times, family 99.9% of the time, and a lot of us have met in real life. And on a message board, all you see are words. You don't see race. Or sex. Or sexual orientation. Or demographics at all. You see and are seen by the context of your words. And that is pretty incredible.  Over the years we really have no idea what the other poster looks like. We have very few, if any, biases based on how you look.  Holy Hell that is great! This is how to want society to work!  And it just works. We all work together.

In regards to your email, I have no problem with it. This is how you feel. This was so important to you that you used your platform to speak from your heart. And when a man does that, he can do no wrong. Because that speaks to the essence of a man.

The part that disappoints me is that you had to start this thread to feel validation. You had to feel that it was ok. You had to make sure that what you said didn't disrupt your day-to-day operations. You had to feel good about that decision to make a stand.

And that makes me sad in a way. I know you are a man of principle. I know you do great things in the community. I know you try to foster a real community here on the internet that actually means something.

But to me, a man loses conviction when he has to justify a position. And I think that's what you are doing here. It means more to stand up with a fist in the air and declare "THIS IS WHAT I STAND FOR AND I AM GONNA SAY IT NO MATTER THE REPERCUSSIONS!!"

And sadly, asking if this was OK lessens that. 

 
ChiefD said:
@Joe Bryant -

I've thought about this post all day. I've thought about the words I want to use to reply, because the last thing I want to do is disrespect you and the community you have built. Because the truth is, you have built an amazing community.

We are friends, foes, adversaries at times, family 99.9% of the time, and a lot of us have met in real life. And on a message board, all you see are words. You don't see race. Or sex. Or sexual orientation. Or demographics at all. You see and are seen by the context of your words. And that is pretty incredible.  Over the years we really have no idea what the other poster looks like. We have very few, if any, biases based on how you look.  Holy Hell that is great! This is how to want society to work!  And it just works. We all work together.

In regards to your email, I have no problem with it. This is how you feel. This was so important to you that you used your platform to speak from your heart. And when a man does that, he can do no wrong. Because that speaks to the essence of a man.

The part that disappoints me is that you had to start this thread to feel validation. You had to feel that it was ok. You had to make sure that what you said didn't disrupt your day-to-day operations. You had to feel good about that decision to make a stand.

And that makes me sad in a way. I know you are a man of principle. I know you do great things in the community. I know you try to foster a real community here on the internet that actually means something.

But to me, a man loses conviction when he has to justify a position. And I think that's what you are doing here. It means more to stand up with a fist in the air and declare "THIS IS WHAT I STAND FOR AND I AM GONNA SAY IT NO MATTER THE REPERCUSSIONS!!"

And sadly, asking if this was OK lessens that. 
Click to expand...
ChiefD, I think Joe has taken a big step forward.  He is making a stand for what he believes, versus creating another poll asking people what they Think.

 
Otis said:
If the question is really “is it ok?,” I say of course it is. Your service, your email, you can do as you like. 

If the question is whether you should do it, or how it would be perceived, those are different.   If in my Delta Skymiles update emails they started throwing in the CEOs personal views on race relations or these issues, I’d find it weird. Maybe unprofessional?  I can’t imagine sending my clients emails with my personal views on this stuff. It’s a great thing for me to maybe post on my Facebook to my friends and family if I want to. But as a professional message, it’s really not Delta’s place, or my place to tell people how I feel. So I think it depends on what you’re going for. If you intend for this to be perceived as an extended Facebook for you, that’s how it may be perceived. If you intend for it to be professional-level communication, it may seem weird. I’ve met you and know you through here for years, so I’m not offended or anything, and I think it’s fine. But I could hear someone thinking “great, fantasy football guy is now the authority on race relations and telling me what he thinks about it.”  Just like if my barber or Ace Hardware or someone else told me their views.  

In sum: Everyone I know on FB is taking the opportunity to share their views on this (some annoyingly so).  I’ve not received nor sent a professional level communication on it. 
 

Just my quick thoughts. Somewhat baked at least because I was thinking about this today in the context of my professional twitter feed. But I don’t have the answers on this. 
Click to expand...
Go easy on Joe.  He already started his letter with an apology.

Here is Tim Cook’s letter to Apple employees.

 
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Voted OK but it was sort of awkward to read. It feels like white guilt even though stated otherwise. But you’re acknowledging injustice which is the bigger message. 

 
ChiefD said:
@Joe Bryant -

I've thought about this post all day. I've thought about the words I want to use to reply, because the last thing I want to do is disrespect you and the community you have built. Because the truth is, you have built an amazing community.

We are friends, foes, adversaries at times, family 99.9% of the time, and a lot of us have met in real life. And on a message board, all you see are words. You don't see race. Or sex. Or sexual orientation. Or demographics at all. You see and are seen by the context of your words. And that is pretty incredible.  Over the years we really have no idea what the other poster looks like. We have very few, if any, biases based on how you look.  Holy Hell that is great! This is how to want society to work!  And it just works. We all work together.

In regards to your email, I have no problem with it. This is how you feel. This was so important to you that you used your platform to speak from your heart. And when a man does that, he can do no wrong. Because that speaks to the essence of a man.

The part that disappoints me is that you had to start this thread to feel validation. You had to feel that it was ok. You had to make sure that what you said didn't disrupt your day-to-day operations. You had to feel good about that decision to make a stand.

And that makes me sad in a way. I know you are a man of principle. I know you do great things in the community. I know you try to foster a real community here on the internet that actually means something.

But to me, a man loses conviction when he has to justify a position. And I think that's what you are doing here. It means more to stand up with a fist in the air and declare "THIS IS WHAT I STAND FOR AND I AM GONNA SAY IT NO MATTER THE REPERCUSSIONS!!"

And sadly, asking if this was OK lessens that. 
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback @ChiefD  I asked this question for exactly why I said I asked it - to get some feedback on what folks thought about the email after it was already done. 

I know you don't me, but I've no need for validation. And it certainly didn't disrupt the day to day operations. When you communicate with people and you can't see them or talk to them, it's helpful to me to ask how folks received something that was out of the normal thing we do. That's a bummer you interpreted that as you somehow know I needed validation or something else. 

But to be fair, that's exactly why I asked the question. It's helpful to me to know what the audience thinks. So I'll ask. I do that a lot without apologies for asking how I can better serve the audience. 

I also wondered about the difference between the FFA and the Shark Pool and that feedback was helpful. Thanks to all for the responses. 

 
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Last thing on this for me as you all have given me the feedback I was asking for - I see the forums as sort of our "insider folks". The email went to 455,000 plus people. The vast majority of them know me as nothing more than just a name on an email that shows up each day in their email box. 

You folks here are a much closer group and I put some extra weight on your opinion. I likened me asking here what folks thought to a person giving a speech to an audience of 1,000 people and then afterwards asking a few people close to him "How do you think it went?" 

Thanks to all for the feedback. That's always helpful. 

 
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[scooter] said:
. But when you say "I'm with you," there will be a not-insignificant-number of people who interpret that line as "I agree with the protesters."
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:2cents:  I just see the "I'm with you" line the same way I do "support the troops!" Stuff we see a lot of, but most of the time it's hollow. It's way too easy to say those words and move on. 

I'll give Joe credit for using his platform to reach people who might not otherwise think much of these issues.  There will be many who delete or don't read it, but perhaps some will, and some of those might be inspired. 

That said, I'd prefer the emails to be limited to football news.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
Even after the fact. I don't have any plans to change anything going forward. But I also was wondering what you folks thought here? Thanks.
Click to expand...
First of all I think it's a personal space, I think you need to express what you want to express, and it's your right. How you do that, that's the site. - Secondly society and sports overlap. I can tell you that issues surrounding Katrina swirled around the return of the Saints and the Saints' rise was inherently part of our recovery, they are still a driving force for our city, socially and culturally.

So the only thing I would do here, in your piece, which I think is not just lovely but terrific, is I would tie in what sports and football can do to help us get through this, as a people, not just in terms of race (which is old) and the social division (that we are going through now) but also recovery from the coronavirus crisis.

Great piece and an important one, Joe, keep up the good writing.

 
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Rohn Jambo said:
Go easy on Joe.  He already started his letter with an apology.

Here is Tim Cook’s letter to Apple employees.
Click to expand...
I voted ok--as Joe has a right to run his business the way he wants.  If I see something in an email that I don't want to read---I just skip over it and move ahead to the areas that I want to read.  With that said--I don't think that a letter from a CEO to its employees is remotely parallel to a communication that a buisness owner sends to customers.   Businesses have policies, stances, and cultures--and their owners/CEO's need to let their staff know where the business stands on things.   I'm not sure how that is relevant to what is being asked here. 

 
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it's been made pretty clear this is "your board" ....so that applies to the emails as well.....in the past you have used this (your) platform to express your agendas and beliefs to the people that come here or view your product....if we have a problem with it, we can go elsewhere I guess....you can do it if you want....but like @Otis said above...."If the question is whether you should do it, or how it would be perceived, those are different"....personally I would prefer "stick to football"......in the football related emails....

 
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