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Several Cowboys & Texans Test Positive for COVID19 (1 Viewer)

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Hot Sauce Guy said:
100% chance they try to do it. Too much $ involved all around.

10% chance they have an uninterrupted season. 
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I totally agree they will try. You are right about the money. 

I'm looking at it from my current things are spiking again perspective. It's kind of like being in the middle of a hurricane and thinking "It doesn't look like I will be golfing today". Hopefully a month from now things will be more cleared up.

 
It's kind of like being in the middle of a hurricane and thinking "It doesn't look like I will be golfing today". Hopefully a month from now things will be more cleared up.
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I see it more like Caddy Shack, where the Bishop wants to play a round & Carl Spackler says “I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff's gonna come down for quite awhile.

NFL: You're right. Anyway, the Good Lord would never disrupt the best game of my life.

 
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When you test positive for Coronavirus you can catch it again but it's considered to be very low odds especially in any kind of short term outlook. 

Two things to note on that:

1. People should be bumping up any player you know has already tested positive. If you already own Elliot as an example I'd be happy, from a fantasy angle I stress, because he will have already got it out of the way and should reduce if not eliminate any chance of him missing 2+ weeks during the season.

2. If the outbreaks we are seeing so far, like Clemson's football team, continue as this pace during training camp this might actually be good thing, and again I say for fantasy or football. Let's say for example week one of training camp a team gets hit like Clemson and 25% of their roster has Covid. Right off the bat that just means 25% of that teams players are likely Covidfree for the 2020 season. I find myself wondering if teams are not thinking this internally, that a lot of benefit could be found using herd immunity plan during training camp phase, even with as key as training camp will be this year. I think it's likely that the most cautious of teams and teams that have low numbers of positive Covid tests in camp are the teams that will struggle the most with in-season Covid related loss. I just think it's highly possible that while early camp reports of positive tests will sound alarm bells  in the media it's actually going to turn out to be a huge positive for the season.

 
ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports “at least” two Buccaneers players tested positive for COVID-19.

This news comes less than a week after one Buccaneers’ coach tested positive and two other assistants were quarantined. Much like the Cowboys and 49ers (among five others), Tampa Bay is also choosing to keep all names that tested positive in house. Expect the number of coaches and players being quarantined to continue growing as all attempt to return to facilities full-time prior to camp.

SOURCE: Adam Schaffer on Twitter

Jun 20, 2020, 1:11 PM ET
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The common denominator is Texas and Florida.

I'm responding to the above post. Don't know where the quote is. 

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
I see it more like Caddy Shack, where the Bishop wants to play a round & Carl Spackler says “I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff's gonna come down for quite awhile.

NFL: You're right. Anyway, the Good Lord would never disrupt the best game of my life.
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That's my favorite movie of all time so you get a like just for that. I like the analogy as well. 

I'm actually gonna bump up my confidence meter to 40% that there will be a season. If there are protests,  Trump rallies,  plus every other business across the US opening how can't one of the biggest industries not be allowed to make it happen. My concern is that I don't know how those within the industry will respond to any breakouts. I think if the players and coaches agree that it's a go they will just have to work around the Covid. 

 
40% is my number now as well but things could look entirely different (in either direction) even by the time training camps are due to open.

As far as the comparison to rallies, etc, though, you need governors in all states with stadiums to be on board.

ETA- They're obviously on a different timetable, but MLB is temporarily closing all spring training facilities in FL and AZ.

 
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Mystery Achiever said:
40% is my number now as well but things could look entirely different (in either direction) even by the time training camps are due to open.

As far as the comparison to rallies, etc, though, you need governors in all states with stadiums to be on board.

ETA- They're obviously on a different timetable, but MLB is temporarily closing all spring training facilities in FL and AZ.
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This is important. States rights are a thing. If the state says no fans at games, ain’t a damn thing the NFL can do about that. 

 
Statement from the NFLPA medical director:
 

"Please be advised that it is our consensus medical opinion that in light of the increase in COVID-19 cases in certain states that no players should be engaged in practicing together in private workouts," Mayer wrote. "Our goal is to have all players and your families as healthy as possible in the coming months.

"We are working on the best mitigation procedures at team facilities for both training camps and the upcoming season, and believe that it is in the best interest of all players that we advise against any voluntary joint practices before training camp commences."

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
This is important. States rights are a thing. If the state says no fans at games, ain’t a damn thing the NFL can do about that. 
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It's not even fans. RIght now, just the two teams + teams and stadium staff probably exceed some maximums for gatherings, though that will probably open up as states move  through their phases.

 
Profootballtalk's Mike Florio reports the league remains "highly optimistic" the 2020 season will go forward as scheduled. 

Per Florio, "less optimism exists that fans will be present for any of the games, however." The past week was one of COVID downers, with professional and collegiate athletes testing positive left and right. The NFLPA recommended on Saturday that its members stop informally working out together. The coronavirus is once again burning through a number of states, most notably Florida, Texas and Arizona. If those outbreaks remain raging a month from now when training camp is set to begin, the NFL will have a real quandary on its hands. 

SOURCE: Profootballtalk on NBCSports.com 

Jun 20, 2020, 4:10 PM ET
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Here’s the thing about the rosey outlook from the NFL and “NFL insiders”… They still tryina sell tickets, jerseys, DIRECTV Sunday ticket packages, etc.

I don’t care who says who is optimistic… The reality is we’re in the midst of a global pandemic, at the early stages. It has claimed over 120,000 lives with 2M+ infected.

It is highly contagious, there’s no cure and we have no natural immunity. At this point we don’t even know if “herd immunity” is a thing because there may be mutations (see Beijing, China). 

those I have spoken with in the medical field are far, far less optimistic about sports being played this year. early on, optimist that I am, I thought they were overreacting. but this thing isn’t going to magically go away, and with the small outbreaks players have been exhibiting from even small gatherings, more and more I suspect they’re correct. 

Economic & social impact is absolutely devastating to sports at all levels, from peewee / little league, through high school,  all the way through the pro levels 

I still hope they’re wrong…. And that those in here who believe this is all wildly exaggerated are correct.

but while people expressing optimism have an economic concern, I believe in science.

 
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menobrown said:
When you test positive for Coronavirus you can catch it again but it's considered to be very low odds especially in any kind of short term outlook. 

Two things to note on that:

1. People should be bumping up any player you know has already tested positive. If you already own Elliot as an example I'd be happy, from a fantasy angle I stress, because he will have already got it out of the way and should reduce if not eliminate any chance of him missing 2+ weeks during the season.

2. If the outbreaks we are seeing so far, like Clemson's football team, continue as this pace during training camp this might actually be good thing, and again I say for fantasy or football. Let's say for example week one of training camp a team gets hit like Clemson and 25% of their roster has Covid. Right off the bat that just means 25% of that teams players are likely Covidfree for the 2020 season. I find myself wondering if teams are not thinking this internally, that a lot of benefit could be found using herd immunity plan during training camp phase, even with as key as training camp will be this year. I think it's likely that the most cautious of teams and teams that have low numbers of positive Covid tests in camp are the teams that will struggle the most with in-season Covid related loss. I just think it's highly possible that while early camp reports of positive tests will sound alarm bells  in the media it's actually going to turn out to be a huge positive for the season.
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Great points.  I'm not saying as a player I would rather get the disease right now at all.... but from a PURELY football and fantasy perspective, each time we see a new big shiny headline about a player testing positive right now, we should bump them up in fantasy rankings as their chances of missing games due to Covid significantly decrease.

 
Deamon said:
Great points.  I'm not saying as a player I would rather get the disease right now at all.... but from a PURELY football and fantasy perspective, each time we see a new big shiny headline about a player testing positive right now, we should bump them up in fantasy rankings as their chances of missing games due to Covid significantly decrease.
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Part of the Fantasy planning might be looking into which players are more vulnerable. Some may be more likely to get the bad version of the virus than others. Those with pre existing conditions may decide not to play. Maybe it's just for the week or perhaps for the year. Do they live in hot spot areas? 

Von Miller said he was sick for about 17 days. Even after that he said he was having issues breathing and wasn't quite right. He has asthma. 

 
Mongidig said:
Part of the Fantasy planning might be looking into which players are more vulnerable. Some may be more likely to get the bad version of the virus than others. Those with pre existing conditions may decide not to play. Maybe it's just for the week or perhaps for the year. Do they live in hot spot areas? 

Von Miller said he was sick for about 17 days. Even after that he said he was having issues breathing and wasn't quite right. He has asthma. 
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And he has since made a full recovery and said there are no more issues at all due to the virus.  He is now quite a bit more immune to getting it during the season.  He dodged a bullet getting it when he did and should play every game of the season if there is one.

 
Deamon said:
And he has since made a full recovery and said there are no more issues at all due to the virus.  He is now quite a bit more immune to getting it during the season.  He dodged a bullet getting it when he did and should play every game of the season if there is one.
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Good for him.

The problem is, there are a lot more Von Millers out there in the NFL, who won't likely dodge the same bullet before the season starts.

If there is a season, and if it will even finish once it starts.

 
the spanker said:
Good for him.

The problem is, there are a lot more Von Millers out there in the NFL, who won't likely dodge the same bullet before the season starts.

If there is a season, and if it will even finish once it starts.
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They will before the season starts if they get it now.  But yes, you're right, some people are going to get it right as the season starts or during the season and miss some games.  He was lucky to get it when he did.

 
As for playing, I think the Bundesliga and Premier League can give you a lot of hope that the season will go ahead and will be completed. 

I can't see fans in attendance at all, that would be far too great a risk at this stage, unless the US can get the virus under control to the same level as, say, NZ or Australia or Vietnam. Can't see that happening right now, we seem to have almost given up and waved the white flag. 

 
Truebluey said:
As for playing, I think the Bundesliga and Premier League can give you a lot of hope that the season will go ahead and will be completed. 

I can't see fans in attendance at all, that would be far too great a risk at this stage, unless the US can get the virus under control to the same level as, say, NZ or Australia or Vietnam. Can't see that happening right now, we seem to have almost given up and waved the white flag. 
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I'm not so sure there won't be fans in the stands. It's strange to me that we are seeing weeks of protests with tens of thousands of people as well as Trump rallies and yet the talk is that there is no way there will be fans in the stands. I get the first amendment issues involved here but I still think it's weird how taboo fans at sports is at the moment. The irony is that if they did allow fans they could create a much safer environment than the protests or rallies. If they minimized the number of fans and spaced them out while doing temperature checks and mask wearing in an outdoor stadium I don't see the issue. Maye only require the masks when you are not in  your seat. I'm also assuming that this will be a time when the numbers are way down.

 
Mongidig said:
Part of the Fantasy planning might be looking into which players are more vulnerable. Some may be more likely to get the bad version of the virus than others. Those with pre existing conditions may decide not to play. Maybe it's just for the week or perhaps for the year. Do they live in hot spot areas? 

Von Miller said he was sick for about 17 days. Even after that he said he was having issues breathing and wasn't quite right. He has asthma. 
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They’re now saying that in addition to preexisting conditions & co-morbidities  specific blood types may also be a factor in terms of how severely one gets COVID19.

which, if epidemiologists are correct about that, would make trying to guess who’s going get it better or worse a very difficult thing to do.

there are some things we can find out about players. Diabetes, sickle cell, cancers, etc, but I’m not sure where to look up blood type, nor have the scientists said which blood types are at greater risk. 
 

what a mess. 

 
Mongidig said:
I'm not so sure there won't be fans in the stands. It's strange to me that we are seeing weeks of protests with tens of thousands of people as well as Trump rallies and yet the talk is that there is no way there will be fans in the stands
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I just read something about this. points to note: BLM protests had something like 95% mask wearing attendees. social distancing wasn’t great, but the protests were outdoors, which helps as well. If we were going to see rally-specific spikes from the bigger rallies a few weeks ago, we likely would have seen them by now. 

we know it’s a pathogen that’s spread through droplets, and that if everyone wears masks / Doesn’t touch their face / washes hands, the rate of transmission is less than 1%. 

Trump held one (1) rally last night, where of the 6200 attendees (per Tulsa fire martial) almost no one In attendance wore a mask.

if theres a spike from last night’s rally, we’ll see it in ~2 weeks. So that’s something to keep an eye on. Apparently 6 members of the campaign’s advanced team including at least one member of USSS just tested positive for COVID19, so it seems likely they’ll have more since almost no one there wore a mask. 

social responsibility has a lot to do with the spread. Irresponsible gatherings have higher rates of infection. Seems like a logical result. 

I get the first amendment issues involved here but I still think it's weird how taboo fans at sports is at the moment. The irony is that if they did allow fans they could create a much safer environment than the protests or rallies. If they minimized the number of fans and spaced them out while doing temperature checks and mask wearing in an outdoor stadium I don't see the issue. Maye only require the masks when you are not in  your seat. I'm also assuming that this will be a time when the numbers are way down.
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Respectfully, there are a couple of flaws with your premise/conclusion.

1. Conflating protests with campaign rallies. See above

re: masks / no masks

2. In order to have fans in attendance, fans would have to keep socially distanced. Likely that would mean small groups of 2-3 people sitting 6’ apart from other people, 100% of whom are wearing masks. Which would be great, if those ~20,000 people weren’t all using the same bathrooms, touching the same handrails, or refusing to wear a mask because “muh freedum!”. It’s not sitting in the seat that’s the issue. It’s the pinch points at the gate, up the escalator, in line for a $17 beer, at the urinals (at least most stadiums did away with the “troughs” - RIP Candlestick)

so the logistics are far more complicated than the seating arrangements. Add to that crowd police, EMTs, concessions workers, stadium personnel, etc & it only gets more difficult. 

finally taking temps of attendees only shows who’s symptomatic. We know that a huge issue with COVID19 is that one can be an asymptomatic carrier for up to 3 weeks. 3 weeks of infecting everyone they come in contact with. So taking the temp might even work out for the worse, because someone with a 98.6 might think “yay! No COVID!” and relax precautions like frequent hand-washing & avoiding touching one’s face.

this is an incredibly complex issue. If I were a betting man I’d put odds on fans attending games somewhere around 50:1.

and as others have mentioned before - it may be a state or county mandate that prevents it in the first place. 

anyway, my point is that it’s not so much ironic as it is being cautious regarding a highly transmissible disease.

sadly, some continue to downplay the severity, dispute the need to wear masks, insist that if we ignore it, it will go away, etc. magical thinking isn’t going to make a pandemic go away. Testing / tracing will. 

 
Truebluey said:
As for playing, I think the Bundesliga and Premier League can give you a lot of hope that the season will go ahead and will be completed. 

I can't see fans in attendance at all, that would be far too great a risk at this stage, unless the US can get the virus under control to the same level as, say, NZ or Australia or Vietnam. Can't see that happening right now, we seem to have almost given up and waved the white flag. 
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Agree with this. 

 
the spanker said:
Good for him.

The problem is, there are a lot more Von Millers out there in the NFL, who won't likely dodge the same bullet before the season starts.

If there is a season, and if it will even finish once it starts.
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We all know a sample size of 1 is the end all be all, right? That’s very science. 

lol

I’m joking, and you’re spot on of course. Added to that folks acting like anyone really knows anything about this disease when we’re learning more by the day. FL just set another daily record for new cases with 4300+. In one day. In states where restrictions have been relaxed, the ICUs are filling up again.

Football players share many traits with the rest of society. Primarily that they’re exactly as susceptible to COVID19 as everyone else. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I just read something about this. points to note: BLM protests had something like 95% mask wearing attendees. social distancing wasn’t great, but the protests were outdoors, which helps as well. If we were going to see rally-specific spikes from the bigger rallies a few weeks ago, we likely would have seen them by now. 

we know it’s a pathogen that’s spread through droplets, and that if everyone wears masks / Doesn’t touch their face / washes hands, the rate of transmission is less than 1%. 

Trump held one (1) rally last night, where of the 6200 attendees (per Tulsa fire martial) almost no one In attendance wore a mask.

if theres a spike from last night’s rally, we’ll see it in ~2 weeks. So that’s something to keep an eye on. Apparently 6 members of the campaign’s advanced team including at least one member of USSS just tested positive for COVID19, so it seems likely they’ll have more since almost no one there wore a mask. 

social responsibility has a lot to do with the spread. Irresponsible gatherings have higher rates of infection. Seems like a logical result. 

Respectfully, there are a couple of flaws with your premise/conclusion.

1. Conflating protests with campaign rallies. See above

re: masks / no masks

2. In order to have fans in attendance, fans would have to keep socially distanced. Likely that would mean small groups of 2-3 people sitting 6’ apart from other people, 100% of whom are wearing masks. Which would be great, if those ~20,000 people weren’t all using the same bathrooms, touching the same handrails, or refusing to wear a mask because “muh freedum!”. It’s not sitting in the seat that’s the issue. It’s the pinch points at the gate, up the escalator, in line for a $17 beer, at the urinals (at least most stadiums did away with the “troughs” - RIP Candlestick)

so the logistics are far more complicated than the seating arrangements. Add to that crowd police, EMTs, concessions workers, stadium personnel, etc & it only gets more difficult. 

finally taking temps of attendees only shows who’s symptomatic. We know that a huge issue with COVID19 is that one can be an asymptomatic carrier for up to 3 weeks. 3 weeks of infecting everyone they come in contact with. So taking the temp might even work out for the worse, because someone with a 98.6 might think “yay! No COVID!” and relax precautions like frequent hand-washing & avoiding touching one’s face.

this is an incredibly complex issue. If I were a betting man I’d put odds on fans attending games somewhere around 50:1.

and as others have mentioned before - it may be a state or county mandate that prevents it in the first place. 

anyway, my point is that it’s not so much ironic as it is being cautious regarding a highly transmissible disease.

sadly, some continue to downplay the severity, dispute the need to wear masks, insist that if we ignore it, it will go away, etc. magical thinking isn’t going to make a pandemic go away. Testing / tracing will. 
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They will have to get very creative to figure out safety measures for fans. Some stadiums are older and have more narrow walkways. Some stadiums may not have the infrastructure to handle some of the safety measures. I thought I heard that the NFL uses a certain percentage of gate revenue to pay for the salary cap. This might be the number they go for. I would think having fans in the sky boxes would be in play for starts. 

The one advantage the trump rally had over the protests is that they had temperature checks. This at least weeds out the most obvious ill people. There may be some asymptomatic people who got in, but not all are necessarily contagious. Those who are asymptomatic and presymptomatic could spread the virus.

 
Blackbear said:
I believe the season will be played without fans. 
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Yep this is the most likely scenario.  The season should go on and they can pump crowd noise into the stadiums like the AFL is doing right now in Australia.  Actually sounds kinda legit on TV.

 
menobrown said:
When you test positive for Coronavirus you can catch it again but it's considered to be very low odds especially in any kind of short term outlook. 

Two things to note on that:

1. People should be bumping up any player you know has already tested positive. If you already own Elliot as an example I'd be happy, from a fantasy angle I stress, because he will have already got it out of the way and should reduce if not eliminate any chance of him missing 2+ weeks during the season.

2. If the outbreaks we are seeing so far, like Clemson's football team, continue as this pace during training camp this might actually be good thing, and again I say for fantasy or football. Let's say for example week one of training camp a team gets hit like Clemson and 25% of their roster has Covid. Right off the bat that just means 25% of that teams players are likely Covidfree for the 2020 season. I find myself wondering if teams are not thinking this internally, that a lot of benefit could be found using herd immunity plan during training camp phase, even with as key as training camp will be this year. I think it's likely that the most cautious of teams and teams that have low numbers of positive Covid tests in camp are the teams that will struggle the most with in-season Covid related loss. I just think it's highly possible that while early camp reports of positive tests will sound alarm bells  in the media it's actually going to turn out to be a huge positive for the season.
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the wisdom is strong in this

legally, organizations are spewing the company line

However, the clear competitive advantage is to get your team exposed now and achieve herd immunity

any one developing a sickness (which is highly unlikely for young healthy players) can be treated now before the 2nd wave hits

 
Mongidig said:
I'm not so sure there won't be fans in the stands. It's strange to me that we are seeing weeks of protests with tens of thousands of people as well as Trump rallies and yet the talk is that there is no way there will be fans in the stands. I get the first amendment issues involved here but I still think it's weird how taboo fans at sports is at the moment. The irony is that if they did allow fans they could create a much safer environment than the protests or rallies. If they minimized the number of fans and spaced them out while doing temperature checks and mask wearing in an outdoor stadium I don't see the issue. Maye only require the masks when you are not in  your seat. I'm also assuming that this will be a time when the numbers are way down.
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In the USA it comes down to how comfortable an organization is with litigation. To allow fans in the stands, team organizations will have to take extraordinary measures, which is OK, a lot of companies/orgs are doing so, but the possibility remains of something going wrong. There's no real comparison with protests, as those are mass gatherings with no official organizer or sponsor. If you go to a Cowboys game, you have someone to blame if things go wrong.

I don't like it, risk is always a part of the human experience, but I guess in this case it's the public health aspect that is really scary - it's not just you getting sick, it's how many others you may potentially make ill.  Maybe some teams will take that risk but I just don't see it on June 22. I'll be rooting for things to change as personally I hate watching sports with no fans. 

Also to Obie Wan: "anyone developing a sickness (which is highly unlikely for young healthy players) can be treated now before the 2nd wave hits"  - there really doesn't look like a second wave in the USA at the moment. We accelerated in our rate of transmission, came down a bit as the northeast got things under control, but have settled into a very consistent plateau of 20,000-30,000 new cases a day. As one epidemiologist put it, it's like a forest fire that just keeps spreading. You put out one spot, another flares up. Perhaps because our country is so big and there is so much movement inside it, our curve looks nothing like that of European countries. Perhaps once the big states such as FLA and TX get things under control, we will finally see a national downward trend, but until then talk of a second wave in not grounded in present reality.

 
Also to Obie Wan: "anyone developing a sickness (which is highly unlikely for young healthy players) can be treated now before the 2nd wave hits"  - there really doesn't look like a second wave in the USA at the moment. We accelerated in our rate of transmission, came down a bit as the northeast got things under control, but have settled into a very consistent plateau of 20,000-30,000 new cases a day. As one epidemiologist put it, it's like a forest fire that just keeps spreading. You put out one spot, another flares up. Perhaps because our country is so big and there is so much movement inside it, our curve looks nothing like that of European countries. Perhaps once the big states such as FLA and TX get things under control, we will finally see a national downward trend, but until then talk of a second wave in not grounded in present reality.
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My friends in the medical industry say this is still the 1st wave.

talk of a “second wave” is premature and reminiscent of how things got so bad in 1917-1918 with Spanish flu.

Except with that outbreak, the hot weather actually did curtail the virus, so people believed it to have passed when in fact it did not. Precautions were lifted & more people died in the 2nd wave than in the first. It was devastating.

here the 1st wave precautions are relaxing because people are impatient, bored, or don’t believe in science (or any combination of those). The refusal to wear masks is increasing the spread & premature movement into “phase 2” or “phase 3” isn’t based on any of the metrics established for such a designation, but rather political direction and/or greed.

So here we are, in the middle of the 1st wave pretending it’s a dip in the curve, when in fact the curve was only flattened briefly. Now we’ll see another steep incline as we did initially. We wasted a massive opportunity to curtail the spread by reopening everything way too soon.

in a few months y’all can call me a kook if the data doesn’t show this, but ICUs in AZ are rapidly reaching capacity again. That’s one example. Florida is literally hiding their numbers, and testing on the whole still isn’t federally organized, with no contact tracing or anything even resembling a plan.

how this all relates to whether there will be sports this year, and FF in particular, well - it doesn’t bode well. So long as the people running the country don’t prioritize reduction & continue to pin their hopes on miracle cures or accelerated vaccines, or (gasp!) “herd immunity” (see: millions & millions of dead people) I have very low expectations for sports to return to anything resembling “normal”. 

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
My friends in the medical industry say this is still the 1st wave.

talk of a “second wave” is premature and reminiscent of how things got so bad in 1917-1918 with Spanish flu.

Except with that outbreak, the hot weather actually did curtail the virus, so people believed it to have passed when in fact it did not. Precautions were lifted & more people died in the 2nd wave than in the first. It was devastating.

here the 1st wave precautions are relaxing because people are impatient, bored, or don’t believe in science (or any combination of those). The refusal to wear masks is increasing the spread & premature movement into “phase 2” or “phase 3” isn’t based on any of the metrics established for such a designation, but rather political direction and/or greed.

So here we are, in the middle of the 1st wave pretending it’s a dip in the curve, when in fact the curve was only flattened briefly. Now we’ll see another steep incline as we did initially. We wasted a massive opportunity to curtail the spread by reopening everything way too soon.

in a few months y’all can call me a kook if the data doesn’t show this, but ICUs in AZ are rapidly reaching capacity again. That’s one example. Florida is literally hiding their numbers, and testing on the whole still isn’t federally organized, with no contact tracing or anything even resembling a plan.

how this all relates to whether there will be sports this year, and FF in particular, well - it doesn’t bode well. So long as the people running the country don’t prioritize reduction & continue to pin their hopes on miracle cures or accelerated vaccines, or (gasp!) “herd immunity” (see: millions & millions of dead people) I have very low expectations for sports to return to anything resembling “normal”. 
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Totally agree, talk of a "second wave" is a complete joke. How can anyone say a first wave is over when daily infections never got below around 15,000 a day (I can't remember exactly but I don't recall it getting lower) and are now back at 30,000+ 

The fact is that the country didn't do enough (early enough) as a whole, as part of an organized, coordinated effort, to bring the virus under control. There are many factors that went into that, but that's the reality. Some individual states have done better than others but, all in all, we're pretty much back where we started, except with 122,000 people dead and no plan to bring things under control - in fact the opposite, people are engaging in behaviour now that will likely only makes things worse over the next couple of months. I don't see any reason to think the situation will improve substantially before NFL kickoff. The only positive thing I've seen recently is a declining death rate (compared with total new cases), but it's unclear whether that might be due to weakening virus strains, or better treatment/knowledge of how to handle patients etc.

With that context, it's hard to imagine how the NFL will complete (or even meaningfully start) a season. Part of the issue is that we don't know what they are planning behind the scenes in terms of isolation, testing, contingencies if players/teams test positive etc. Maybe things are being worked out by some very smart people, but it's easy to see how this will be a logistical nightmare to pull off. 

As for player value increasing or players being 'safer' if they contract the virus now, that is complete speculation. We don't know enough about how the virus works to say that with any degree of certainty - on the contrary, there have been concerning reports of people getting the virus more than once. You would expect antibodies to develop in people who have already contracted it, but IMO it would be silly to claim that they can't get it again or are out of the woods as far as the season goes. 

 
RushHour said:
Totally agree, talk of a "second wave" is a complete joke. How can anyone say a first wave is over when daily infections never got below around 15,000 a day (I can't remember exactly but I don't recall it getting lower) and are now back at 30,000+ 

The fact is that the country didn't do enough (early enough) as a whole, as part of an organized, coordinated effort, to bring the virus under control. There are many factors that went into that, but that's the reality. Some individual states have done better than others but, all in all, we're pretty much back where we started, except with 122,000 people dead and no plan to bring things under control - in fact the opposite, people are engaging in behaviour now that will likely only makes things worse over the next couple of months. I don't see any reason to think the situation will improve substantially before NFL kickoff. The only positive thing I've seen recently is a declining death rate (compared with total new cases), but it's unclear whether that might be due to weakening virus strains, or better treatment/knowledge of how to handle patients etc.

With that context, it's hard to imagine how the NFL will complete (or even meaningfully start) a season. Part of the issue is that we don't know what they are planning behind the scenes in terms of isolation, testing, contingencies if players/teams test positive etc. Maybe things are being worked out by some very smart people, but it's easy to see how this will be a logistical nightmare to pull off. 

As for player value increasing or players being 'safer' if they contract the virus now, that is complete speculation. We don't know enough about how the virus works to say that with any degree of certainty - on the contrary, there have been concerning reports of people getting the virus more than once. You would expect antibodies to develop in people who have already contracted it, but IMO it would be silly to claim that they can't get it again or are out of the woods as far as the season goes. 
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No one in here said they couldn't get it again.  It seems those on this side of the argument seem to be putting words into our mouths.  Yes it seems you CAN get it again but it's pretty rare.  A player getting it now is extremely unlikely to get it again, but yes... it COULD happen.  And there COULD be lingering effects.  Both of these COULD'S are extremely small odds and unlikely.  They are not to be ignored, but they are the exceptions.  Higher chance a player who gets it now, fully recovers and doesn't get it again, VS getting it mid season and missing time.  It's about minimizing the risk.

 
Deamon said:
No one in here said they couldn't get it again.  It seems those on this side of the argument seem to be putting words into our mouths.  Yes it seems you CAN get it again but it's pretty rare.  A player getting it now is extremely unlikely to get it again, but yes... it COULD happen.  And there COULD be lingering effects.  Both of these COULD'S are extremely small odds and unlikely.  They are not to be ignored, but they are the exceptions.  Higher chance a player who gets it now, fully recovers and doesn't get it again, VS getting it mid season and missing time.  It's about minimizing the risk.
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I don't want to get in a back and forth, but how do we even know this? My point is that there is a lot we still don't know about how this virus spreads and its effects. 

 
RushHour said:
I don't want to get in a back and forth, but how do we even know this? My point is that there is a lot we still don't know about how this virus spreads and its effects. 
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ya, read back in this thread, we've been through all this before.  The easy way out is a generic "we don't know".  But what we do know is that people in their age bracket have over a 99.97% chance of getting over this disease and surviving it.  That number is much much higher when taking out the fact that most of those .03% have other conditions, lack of top healthcare, and aren't in great  shape. 

So yes, we DO know that a player getting it now has almost no chance of missing time in the season because of it (yes yes, a small chance, but its minuscule).  Chance of them getting it during the season and being forced to miss time is much much much higher.

 
Deamon said:
ya, read back in this thread, we've been through all this before.  The easy way out is a generic "we don't know".  But what we do know is that people in their age bracket have over a 99.97% chance of getting over this disease and surviving it.  That number is much much higher when taking out the fact that most of those .03% have other conditions, lack of top healthcare, and aren't in great  shape. 

So yes, we DO know that a player getting it now has almost no chance of missing time in the season because of it (yes yes, a small chance, but its minuscule).  Chance of them getting it during the season and being forced to miss time is much much much higher.
Click to expand...
What empirical evidence would cause you to re-think your position? Someone getting hospitalized? Sent to the ICU? Intubated? (Players who get intubated are probably never playing NFL football again, by the way).

Have you engaged with the fact that Black people with COVID between ages 18-34 are at least three times as likely to be hospitalized as white people?

 
CalBear said:
What empirical evidence would cause you to re-think your position? Someone getting hospitalized? Sent to the ICU? Intubated? (Players who get intubated are probably never playing NFL football again, by the way).

Have you engaged with the fact that Black people with COVID between ages 18-34 are at least three times as likely to be hospitalized as white people?
Click to expand...
Oh god man, we've been through this all before.  Yet you keep ignoring the facts.  It's not "my position", it's factual evidence.  An NFL player getting intubated is insanely improbable. Why do you keep using the exceptions as the truth?  Sure, if an nfl player gets intubated and never plays again, I'll be surprised.  If that DOESN'T happen, will you 're-think' YOUR position?  Or will you stick with "well it could happen".

Yes, I believe one of the main reasons for that fact is lack of healthcare.  How many of these cases that you speak of were world class athletes with access to the best healthcare and daily testing?  Any?

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Can you link those reports please?
Click to expand...
No link, but it’s streaming if you want to google it.

This was Dr Faucci testifying to congress under oath a little while ago. I hope it’s valid enough to meet your rigorous standards?

(Description is by the reporter covering it) 
 

(FAUCI is taking the House Energy and Commerce Committee back to school on how antibodies work.)

"We don't know the duration of that antibody," Fauci says. "It's likely they are protected [from #COVID19] for some period of time, but we don't know how long."
Click to expand...
 
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cobalt_27 said:
You believe the nationwide response to the virus was adequate?  Or that it’s under control?  Both?
Click to expand...
I think the response was excellent. Not counting Cuomo's murders of those people in nursing homes. As for "under control"? I don't consider it a threat or something to be concerned about, so I can't answer that. With all the appalling things going on in this country, the coronavirus isn't something I ever think about anymore. Given the hyper-paranoia, I do think it will probably affect the season beyond what's already happened. 

 
zeeshan2 said:
Nikola Jokic just tested positive for the corona as did two Suns players and 4 players from a Western Conference team per Adrian Woj on espn 
Click to expand...
So I waited this long to find out that my Nuggets don't have a chance.

How are these guys not completely isolating during their time off?

 
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