Chubb for 1.8, Julio, and Wentz? (1 Viewer)

Is this enough?  Here is my thought process...

I play in an 8-team ppr dynasty league (14th year with group of good friends).  We are making a big change in our starting requirements by adding a 2nd QB starter.  In this transition, each team will only be able to carry two QB's on their roster heading into the draft.  

Starting requirements: 2QB, 1 RB, 1 WR, 3 flex (RB/WR/TE), K (it is actually an IDP league, but for simplicity sake and being set defensively, I am only mentioning offense)

The player I'm looking to trade with may like Wentz over 1 of the 2 QB's he keeps...Brissett, Goff, Rivers, Winston.

I will most likely be keeping Mahomes and Allen as my two, so Wentz is expendable and would like to move him as opposed to cutting him and getting nothing.  Julio is still good and I feel now may be the best time to "cash out" before his value starts to dip from age.  I've won the last two seasons and know that making some moves is the best way to stay ahead.

Is 1.8, Julio, and Wentz a good offer?  For someone to move Chubb, I'm guessing it would have to be an over the top offer.  Is this enough, or do I need one more carrot?  Chubb is still young and I'm high on him, hence my preference to acquire him if I can.

For reference, my players:

QB's: Mahomes, Allen, Wentz, Minshew, Darnold

RB's: Elliot, Connor, Mixon, Kerryon, Howard, Damien Harris, Love, Armstead

WR's: Adams, Jones, Tyreek, AJ Brown, Hilton, Diontae, Sutton, Landry, Watkins, Ross

TE's: Andrews

Thanks for all advice and suggestions.

If I understand this correctly, the veteran QBs unprotected would be lumped in with the rookies.....correct?

If so, Wentz should be the 1st pick in the draft.  Wentz is much more valuable than any of the rookies.  So where does this owner draft?  If it isn't 1.1, you hold the hammer, since it's not likely he will get Wentz in the draft.  

Counter with Wentz, Hilton and 1.8 for Chubb if that's the case.  If he holds the 1.1, he knows that he's getting Wentz, so don't deal him Wentz, make him use the 1.1 to draft him.

I would also shop Wentz around to any owner not with the 1.1 and see what offers you can get for him.  But if you can get Chubb for Wentz, Hilton and the 1.8, take it and run.

I think you are offering quite a bit much, given that from my perspective you are the one coming from the position of power.

QB value in a 2QB league, even just an 8 teamer, is increased quite a bit over standard leagues, more so considering that you still only start 5 position players (6 if you also have a TE spot that you didn't put in your OP). The team you are dealing with is fairly weak at QB for an 8 teamer with Rivers and Goff as his potential starting QBs - Wentz is a major upgrade for him.

If we assume that on most weeks your lineup for position players is Elliott, Mixon, Adams, Jones, Tyreek, how does changing from Jones to Chubb, in a PPR league, help your lineup? I'd almost argue that in a PPR, the difference is negligible if not slightly in favor of Jones, at least for the next season or two,  as Chubb will now have Hunt there for the entire season. The main argument for making a deal like that is that you do have decent WR depth with AJ Brown, Hilton, Sutton and Diontae, and CHubb is obviously an upgrade over Connor and Kerryon.

The way I see this deal for you, you would be basically upgrading the other team significantly (starting QB, starting WR and an early pick) while making at best a minimal upgrade to your lineup (if Chubb outperforms Jones), and downgrading your lineup at worst.

While I agree that in general it would be good to get something for any of those QBs over tossing them back, the deal still needs to upgrade your lineup, as the value in tossing them back is that those QBs (particularly Wentz, possibly Darnold) should be taken fairly early, which in turn pushes better players back to you at the 8 spot.

As a corollary to what fightingillini said, if this owner does have the 1.1 and he realizes that a player like Wentz should be taken first overall, a better offer for you I think would be to offer him Wentz and the 1.8 for the 1.1. Let him know you will deal Wentz to another owner (this assumes it appears Wentz is the clear top player or a target for this guy) if he doesn't. This other owner locks in getting Wentz plus keeping a first round pick, you essentially get to move from 8 to 1 for a player you can't keep anyway.

fightingillini said:

If I understand this correctly, the veteran QBs unprotected would be lumped in with the rookies.....correct?

If so, Wentz should be the 1st pick in the draft.  Wentz is much more valuable than any of the rookies.  So where does this owner draft?  If it isn't 1.1, you hold the hammer, since it's not likely he will get Wentz in the draft.  

Counter with Wentz, Hilton and 1.8 for Chubb if that's the case.  If he holds the 1.1, he knows that he's getting Wentz, so don't deal him Wentz, make him use the 1.1 to draft him.

I would also shop Wentz around to any owner not with the 1.1 and see what offers you can get for him.  But if you can get Chubb for Wentz, Hilton and the 1.8, take it and run.

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You would be correct, the unprotected QB's would be lumped in with our Rookie/FA draft.  Knowing my league mates, I don't believe Wentz would go 1.1.  There is another owner in the league that will have a tough decision having to drop two of the four of Murray/Watson/Wilson/Rodgers.  The owner of Chubb will be picking at 1.4. I had been shopping Wentz around, but have not received any offers.  Our rookie/fa draft doesn't take place until the end of August, so most of the owners just aren't active in the offseason. 

acarey50 said:

I think you are offering quite a bit much, given that from my perspective you are the one coming from the position of power.

QB value in a 2QB league, even just an 8 teamer, is increased quite a bit over standard leagues, more so considering that you still only start 5 position players (6 if you also have a TE spot that you didn't put in your OP). The team you are dealing with is fairly weak at QB for an 8 teamer with Rivers and Goff as his potential starting QBs - Wentz is a major upgrade for him.

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I think the position of power is relative.  The other owner could perceive that he could get Wentz without giving up Chubb knowing that I am most likely going to cut Wentz.  

We do not have to start a TE.

If we assume that on most weeks your lineup for position players is Elliott, Mixon, Adams, Jones, Tyreek, how does changing from Jones to Chubb, in a PPR league, help your lineup? I'd almost argue that in a PPR, the difference is negligible if not slightly in favor of Jones, at least for the next season or two,  as Chubb will now have Hunt there for the entire season. The main argument for making a deal like that is that you do have decent WR depth with AJ Brown, Hilton, Sutton and Diontae, and CHubb is obviously an upgrade over Connor and Kerryon.

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You're right.  I'm probably overvaluing Chubb.  My feeling is that I don't believe Hunt will be around after next season.  I think Chubb is too good a player for Hunt to really make much of a significant cut into his production.  I could be a season ahead of the spike and be rewarded next year.  Even with giving up Julio, I felt I had the depth to win again this year while being set up for next year as well.  

The way I see this deal for you, you would be basically upgrading the other team significantly (starting QB, starting WR and an early pick) while making at best a minimal upgrade to your lineup (if Chubb outperforms Jones), and downgrading your lineup at worst.

While I agree that in general it would be good to get something for any of those QBs over tossing them back, the deal still needs to upgrade your lineup, as the value in tossing them back is that those QBs (particularly Wentz, possibly Darnold) should be taken fairly early, which in turn pushes better players back to you at the 8 spot.

As a corollary to what fightingillini said, if this owner does have the 1.1 and he realizes that a player like Wentz should be taken first overall, a better offer for you I think would be to offer him Wentz and the 1.8 for the 1.1. Let him know you will deal Wentz to another owner (this assumes it appears Wentz is the clear top player or a target for this guy) if he doesn't. This other owner locks in getting Wentz plus keeping a first round pick, you essentially get to move from 8 to 1 for a player you can't keep anyway.

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I really appreciate your guys input.  Sounds like I was undervaluing Wentz in a start 2QB league.  I'll start lower and see if I can get any dialogue going with some of these owners to have a better idea of how they value these QB's.

And this is why I come to the forum!

acarey50 said:

I As a corollary to what fightingillini said, if this owner does have the 1.1 and he realizes that a player like Wentz should be taken first overall, a better offer for you I think would be to offer him Wentz and the 1.8 for the 1.1. Let him know you will deal Wentz to another owner (this assumes it appears Wentz is the clear top player or a target for this guy) if he doesn't. This other owner locks in getting Wentz plus keeping a first round pick, you essentially get to move from 8 to 1 for a player you can't keep anyway.

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This is 100% spot on if the other owner owns the 1.1.  Absolutely the right offer to make.  Allows the other owner to get Wentz and still get a  1st round pick, and the OP moves up from 1.8 to 1.1, where he can get the best QB available (which probably will be Minshew).  Win-win for both sides.

pkroper22 said:

You would be correct, the unprotected QB's would be lumped in with our Rookie/FA draft.  Knowing my league mates, I don't believe Wentz would go 1.1.  There is another owner in the league that will have a tough decision having to drop two of the four of Murray/Watson/Wilson/Rodgers.  The owner of Chubb will be picking at 1.4. I had been shopping Wentz around, but have not received any offers.  Our rookie/fa draft doesn't take place until the end of August, so most of the owners just aren't active in the offseason. 

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Good info.  Other owner throws back one of Murray/Watson/Wilson, so Wentz likely goes 1.2......but the Chubb owner is at 1.4, so he is not in position to get him.  You still hold the hammer, but you do have competition from the other owner that has Murray/Watson/Wilson.  There must be another owner besides the Chubb owner that is in bad shape at QB.  Between the two of you, you own the 4 of the top 5 QB and 5 of the top 10 QBs.  Someone else has to think Wentz is a big upgrade.

Wentz is a top 12 QB, so in your league he's a strong QB2.  Value him as such.

I think your offer is strong and it really doesn't hurt you in any way.  Jones has already lost some value in the trade market.  Obviously if you can substitute Hilton as has been mentioned that is much better for you however you are losing Wentz no matter what.  If you cannot get a deal done then you get zero value for him.   If you are that high on Chubb I think you do what needs to happen to get that deal done.  The current Chubb owner may think Hunt will take too big of a piece and may be wanting to move him for value and getting a set it and forget QB in a 2 QB league is a big deal. 

Start the dialogue but don't be afraid to overpay a bit (especially when the players you are parting with cost you little - ie Wentz is gone no matter what so his value to you is way less than it is to others).  If you believe in your guy go get him.

Blackbear said:

Going to two QB in an 8 team league....

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I don’t understand the point of your post?

Blackbear said:

No... it is just filthy the look of your line up. Due to 8 teams.

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You’re right. Trading is so difficult because everyone has multiple studs.  Main reason I joined a larger league. It’s more a reason for us to get together, but I still much prefer to beat them.