What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Can we continue the discussion about masks? (1 Viewer)

timschochet

Footballguy
Joe shut the other thread down because some people were being rude. I wasn’t part of that, and many in that thread were raising good points. I want to address 2 of them: 

1. In response to my proposal to make mask wearing mandatory, @Ditkaless Wonders challenged me on how I would enforce it. It’s a good question; the Chinese enforced it with drones. That’s too draconian for me. My own answer is a lot simpler: you enforce it the same way you enforce laws against jaywalking or driving past the speed limit: if a policeman catches you without a mask, he writes you a ticket. This obviously won’t eliminate people not wearing masks, but it will serve as a deterrent and reduce their numbers which is my entire point. 
In truth I don’t think there will be a lot of trouble enforcing it once it’s the law. I think most people will abide by this when they are told that they must. 
2. Both @Ramblin Wreck and @tonydead made arguments that mask wearing should be situational, there are times when it made no sense to wear a mask, and thus it shouldn’t be mandatory. (in the case of tonydead this was a much more reasonable stance than his previous, IMO nonsensical “anti-mask” position.) I understand this principle and I’m normally sympathetic to it. Basically what they’re saying is that people with common sense shouldn’t be punished or restricted just because other people don’t have common sense. It’s a traditional conservative/libertarian argument and it has plenty of merit. But I just do not believe that it can be applied safely to a pandemic situation. The problem is that, unlike almost all other situations where this philosophy might apply, those without common sense in the midst of a pandemic are too much of a threat to the rest of us. Therefore I believe we are forced to adopt the “better safe than sorry” approach, which means we must all face restriction in order to protect all of us. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I've just gotten to the point I try and wear a mask everywhere here except when I go somewhere to eat.  When I go out to eat I'm only dining at places that have outside seating or big open areas to have distance with taller ceilings.  I realize that activity may be elevating my risk more than staying home but it's what I choose to do.  That said, when I went to the post office today I made sure to wear one. 

It's probably a little over 50/50 here on mask wearing now at the post office and public places because our rates have been increasing.  People were trying to distance, but in many cases people walking through would cut right in close to you.  It depends on the part of the state you are in though.  When I was down on the coast, granted that was now a month ago, we were supposed to wear them in the common areas of the building and I was the only one I ever saw who was doing so.  I don't get angry over it or anything, but I just try and avoid crowded areas where people aren't wearing them.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joe shut the other thread down because some people were being rude. I wasn’t part of that, and many in that thread were raising good points. I want to address 2 of them: 

1. In response to my proposal to make mask wearing mandatory, @Ditkaless Wonders challenged me on how I would enforce it. It’s a good question; the Chinese enforced it with drones. That’s too draconian for me. My own answer is a lot simpler: you enforce it the same way you enforce laws against jaywalking or driving past the speed limit: if a policeman catches you without a mask, he writes you a ticket. This obviously won’t eliminate people not wearing masks, but it will serve as a deterrent and reduce their numbers which is my entire point. 
In truth I don’t think there will be a lot of trouble enforcing it once it’s the law. I think most people will abide by this when they are told that they must. 
2. Both @Ramblin Wreck and @tonydead made arguments that mask wearing should be situational, there are times when it made no sense to wear a mask, and thus it shouldn’t be mandatory. (in the case of tonydead this was a much more reasonable stance than his previous, IMO nonsensical “anti-mask” position.) I understand this principle and I’m normally sympathetic to it. Basically what they’re saying is that people with common sense shouldn’t be punished or restricted just because other people don’t have common sense. It’s a traditional conservative/libertarian argument and it has plenty of merit. But I just do not believe that it can be applied safely to a pandemic situation. The problem is that, unlike almost all other situations where this philosophy might apply, those without common sense in the midst of a pandemic are too much of a threat to the rest of us. Therefore I believe we are forced to adopt the “better safe than sorry” approach, which means we must all face restriction in order to protect all of us. 


You said you think it should be a federal law. But it seems like you want local police to enforce it? Do you mean the FBI is going to hand out tickets?

 
I just want it to be the same law everywhere. 
I get that but I think DW's point was a practical one - how will you enforce it? You have two choices:

1) Feds pass it. In that scenario, who enforces? FBI is writing tickets? Homeland Security - some form of TSA agent or something roaming the streets?

2) States pass all the same law. That seems impractical. It could be done by pressuring states (think 55 mph speed limits) - but I don't see how they would get it done quickly at all.

 
  • Smile
Reactions: Zow
I'm not in favor of mandatory masks anywhere in public.  Indoors, yes. If you're outdoors and are able to maintain a distance of 6 feet it makes no sense and I don't think it's appropriate to ask people to do something that is basically illogical.

 
I've posted my view probably a dozen times now. No one sane will argue masks dont help or dont work. 

If you are sick stay home. If you have allergies wear a mask. If you're working within 6 feet of people wear a mask.  If you're riding a subway or airplane wear a N95 mask.  It's not rocket science. 

Mandating masks at all times is just our response for giving up on social distancing.  There is no reason for me to wear a mask the vast majority of the time when I leave my house. If you are going to mandate I have a mask on anytime I leave my house like our governor did put me on team #nomask.  

 
What's special about being outdoors? The particles may dissipate a bit more quickly, but they're still there. All it takes is one person walking by and coughing and people near them are exposed, inside or outside.

Just wear the damn masks people. It's really not that big of an imposition.

 
Masks should be required in all indoor public areas. If you don’t wear one, they should refuse to let you in or there should be a fine.

The fact that this is even a discussion is so pathetic and frustrating. It really is one of the easiest and smallest sacrifices you could possibly make to make things safer for other people.

Hell, I’ve been wearing a mask to the gym every single time I’ve gone since COVID and it barely effects my workouts. People acting like wearing it for 20 minutes in a store is severely effecting their breathing or is some major inconvenience are full of ####.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I've posted my view probably a dozen times now. No one sane will argue masks dont help or dont work. 

If you are sick stay home. If you have allergies wear a mask. If you're working within 6 feet of people wear a mask.  If you're riding a subway or airplane wear a N95 mask.  It's not rocket science. 

Mandating masks at all times is just our response for giving up on social distancing.  There is no reason for me to wear a mask the vast majority of the time when I leave my house. If you are going to mandate I have a mask on anytime I leave my house like our governor did put me on team #nomask.  


I have said this to you previously, but I think your analysis falls apart when you consider asymptomatic people. They can still spread COVID and don't know they are sick.

 
What's special about being outdoors? The particles may dissipate a bit more quickly, but they're still there. All it takes is one person walking by and coughing and people near them are exposed, inside or outside.

Just wear the damn masks people. It's really not that big of an imposition.
I'm taking a jog around the neighborhood and it's 90-100 degrees, it's a real big imposition.

 
Masks should be required in all indoor public areas. If you don’t wear one, they should refuse to let you in or there should be a fine.

The fact that this is even a discussion is so pathetic and frustrating. It really is one of the easiest and smallest sacrifices you could possibly make to make things safer for other people.

Hell, I’ve been wearing a mask to the gym every single time I’ve gone since COVID and it barely effects my workouts. People acting like wearing it for 20 minutes in a store is severely effecting their breathing or is some major inconvenience are full of ####.
Going to the gym isn't exactly safe for the public.  I don't care how much one claims they wipe down the equipment or what they put on their face that's an environment ripe for spreading a virus.  Work out at home.

 
I have said this to you previously, but I think your analysis falls apart when you consider asymptomatic people. They can still spread COVID and don't know they are sick.
Right, and I think I've accounted for that: 

I've posted my view probably a dozen times now. No one sane will argue masks dont help or dont work. 

If you are sick stay home. If you have allergies wear a mask. If you're working within 6 feet of people wear a mask.  If you're riding a subway or airplane wear a N95 mask.  It's not rocket science. 

Mandating masks at all times is just our response for giving up on social distancing.  There is no reason for me to wear a mask the vast majority of the time when I leave my house. If you are going to mandate I have a mask on anytime I leave my house like our governor did put me on team #nomask.  

 
What's special about being outdoors? The particles may dissipate a bit more quickly, but they're still there. All it takes is one person walking by and coughing and people near them are exposed, inside or outside.

Just wear the damn masks people. It's really not that big of an imposition.
If you’re outdoors the droplets dissipate into the air. If someone coughs they damn well better be far away from other people. 

 
Going to the gym isn't exactly safe for the public.  I don't care how much one claims they wipe down the equipment or what they put on their face that's an environment ripe for spreading a virus.  Work out at home.
Agreed, but I’m just going to my apartment gym which is by appointment only now so no more than 2-3 other people are in there at a time. I’m definitely on the more cautious side of COVID but I feel pretty safe at this gym given the lack of people using it. 

 
But what if you aren't working? You are just out at a bar? Or a Trump rally?
I've been to several bars, no seating at the bar just every other table. No issues at all.  I wouldnt go to a bar that is packed shoulder to shoulder because I understand social distancing works way better than mask wearing. 

 
What's special about being outdoors? The particles may dissipate a bit more quickly, but they're still there. All it takes is one person walking by and coughing and people near them are exposed, inside or outside.

Just wear the damn masks people. It's really not that big of an imposition.
Not buying it.  Going to need to see some links for these magic particles.  And you can hear people cough, it's like a backup alarm for the covid.  

 
I've posted my view probably a dozen times now. No one sane will argue masks dont help or dont work. 

If you are sick stay home. If you have allergies wear a mask. If you're working within 6 feet of people wear a mask.  If you're riding a subway or airplane wear a N95 mask.  It's not rocket science. 

Mandating masks at all times is just our response for giving up on social distancing.  There is no reason for me to wear a mask the vast majority of the time when I leave my house. If you are going to mandate I have a mask on anytime I leave my house like our governor did put me on team #nomask.  
I asked in the other thread about stores.    I have not given up on trying to social distance, but for sure it's not that easy as I try to navigate a grocery store with other people of varying awareness and willingness to adhere to simple guidelines.   

Same with work.   I work at a restaurant and there is 0% chance we could keep 6' apart although we took pains to try to do so as much as possible.   It just shocks me when I have tried to take out at other stores or go to a big box store and even the workers aren't wearing masks.   This is were I start to dip into "masks should mandatory" territory.  

 
This stuff is easy. If there is a reasonable chance that you will get within 6 feet of others, wear a face covering. Keep one on you in case your surroundings change. Basic Boy Scout stuff here. You like freedom? Err on the side of wearing one. It is a central piece of our ability to have more stuff open until a vaccine is in place.

 
This really shouldn’t be hard.  At this point there is study after study after study that transmitting COVID outdoors is almost nonexistent.  Once indoors and around other people masks need to be worn.  Out for a walk or run there is absolutely no need.  
It's a coping mechanism, but I can only laugh whenever anyone argues otherwise. Suggesting everyone wear them outdoors in this political environment is laughably silly and unintentionally distracts from the real mask battles worth picking. 

 
I asked in the other thread about stores.    I have not given up on trying to social distance, but for sure it's not that easy as I try to navigate a grocery store with other people of varying awareness and willingness to adhere to simple guidelines.   

Same with work.   I work at a restaurant and there is 0% chance we could keep 6' apart although we took pains to try to do so as much as possible.   It just shocks me when I have tried to take out at other stores or go to a big box store and even the workers aren't wearing masks.   This is were I start to dip into "masks should mandatory" territory.  
Every restaurant and bar in my area all the workers are wearing masks that I've seen. Whether they cover their nose and mouth properly is debatable, but, that's their thing, I'm not worried about them getting me sick.  

I havent been to the grocery store lately, other than the small local neighborhood store and there arent very many people in there at any one time. I didnt wear a mask. If someone gets too close to me I will give them the wtf look, but, not for just not wearing a mask.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joe shut the other thread down because some people were being rude. I wasn’t part of that, and many in that thread were raising good points. I want to address 2 of them: 

1. In response to my proposal to make mask wearing mandatory, @Ditkaless Wonders challenged me on how I would enforce it. It’s a good question; the Chinese enforced it with drones. That’s too draconian for me. My own answer is a lot simpler: you enforce it the same way you enforce laws against jaywalking or driving past the speed limit: if a policeman catches you without a mask, he writes you a ticket. This obviously won’t eliminate people not wearing masks, but it will serve as a deterrent and reduce their numbers which is my entire point. 
In truth I don’t think there will be a lot of trouble enforcing it once it’s the law. I think most people will abide by this when they are told that they must. 
2. Both @Ramblin Wreck and @tonydead made arguments that mask wearing should be situational, there are times when it made no sense to wear a mask, and thus it shouldn’t be mandatory. (in the case of tonydead this was a much more reasonable stance than his previous, IMO nonsensical “anti-mask” position.) I understand this principle and I’m normally sympathetic to it. Basically what they’re saying is that people with common sense shouldn’t be punished or restricted just because other people don’t have common sense. It’s a traditional conservative/libertarian argument and it has plenty of merit. But I just do not believe that it can be applied safely to a pandemic situation. The problem is that, unlike almost all other situations where this philosophy might apply, those without common sense in the midst of a pandemic are too much of a threat to the rest of us. Therefore I believe we are forced to adopt the “better safe than sorry” approach, which means we must all face restriction in order to protect all of us. 
100% agree with your enforcement idea. 500-1000 dollars indoors. Give it some teeth

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The only real way to enforce it is the social pressure. People should feel obligated to wear a mask just like they feel obligated to stop at stop signs or don't fart in public. 
What's the move if you see someone in a store without a mask despite being in a mask- mandated municipality?  Say something to them?  Tell an employee?  Give 'em the old stink eye?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
What's the move if you see someone in a store without a mask despite being in a mask- mandated municipality?  Say something to them?  Tell an employee?  Give 'em the old stink eye?
I’m not sure- we don’t really have a protocol yet. Ideally it’s the business that will handle that element-even though it sucks that they have to do that because many people will be rude and confrontational. I think the best response is just a calm and rational request. Just wearing a mask is the biggest pressure we can apply. I know some people are jerks and enjoy being jerks but most people want to fit in. If they are going to places and are consistently the only ones without masks, they should feel some embarrassment.

 
Every restaurant and bar in my area all the workers are wearing masks that I've seen. Whether they cover their nose and mouth properly is debatable, but, that's their thing, I'm not worried about them getting me sick.  

I havent been to the grocery store lately, other than the small local neighborhood store and there arent very many people in there at any one time. I didnt wear a mask. If someone gets too close to me I will give them the wtf look, but, not for just not wearing a mask.  
Interesting, especially since you live by one of the original "hot zones".  I assume you get more of your groceries delivered?

Here I get a little because despite being in the county that is more "locked down" (still no clue why we are doing this county by county), I get a completely different experience as I do our once every 2 week big grocery shopping.   I go to Costco and it's everybody in masks.   Then when I go to Target it's a little more 50/50, but it's still hard to keep that 6' distance as you try to navigate some aisles.   Then I go to Woodman's grocery store and I am for sure in the minority.  I would guess 30% in masks despite being in close quarters.   

A couple local stores I tried, but employees weren't in masks, so I didn't go back to those.  

 
Interesting, especially since you live by one of the original "hot zones".  I assume you get more of your groceries delivered?

Here I get a little because despite being in the county that is more "locked down" (still no clue why we are doing this county by county), I get a completely different experience as I do our once every 2 week big grocery shopping.   I go to Costco and it's everybody in masks.   Then when I go to Target it's a little more 50/50, but it's still hard to keep that 6' distance as you try to navigate some aisles.   Then I go to Woodman's grocery store and I am for sure in the minority.  I would guess 30% in masks despite being in close quarters.   

A couple local stores I tried, but employees weren't in masks, so I didn't go back to those.  
No, we've never had groceries delivered.  My wife does most of the shopping. 

 
A big reason I have tried to wear masks when out and about is that both my wife and I have been working throughout the whole year.   My store has been on top of everything as far as masks (been wearing them since April I believe), cleaning, not opening store to guests.   The wife has a different experience - she's a vet , and the owner of her clinic have not give 2 ####s about any of this from day 1 - no masks, barely any change in # of people in with their animals, etc..     Long story short, I have felt that we have been above average risk of carrying COVID or getting this since neither of us are working from home or off work, so it's a small thing I can do when I am out and about just in case one of us came in contact with a customer or employee who had it and brought it home.  

 
Interesting, especially since you live by one of the original "hot zones".  I assume you get more of your groceries delivered?

Here I get a little because despite being in the county that is more "locked down" (still no clue why we are doing this county by county), I get a completely different experience as I do our once every 2 week big grocery shopping.   I go to Costco and it's everybody in masks.   Then when I go to Target it's a little more 50/50, but it's still hard to keep that 6' distance as you try to navigate some aisles.   Then I go to Woodman's grocery store and I am for sure in the minority.  I would guess 30% in masks despite being in close quarters.   

A couple local stores I tried, but employees weren't in masks, so I didn't go back to those.  
I’ve had similar experiences in Georgia. I’ve gone to Target before with around 90% of people wearing masks but then I go to Whole Foods the next week and only 50% have them on. Usually doesn’t get much below that it seems but I’d say it’s usually in the 50-75% range. 

As far as businesses who don’t have employees wearing masks, I’ve noticed they’re usually the ones who’ve stayed opened until they were forced to close or one of their employees tested positive. Luckily it’s been a minority of businesses but the ones who have done that have lost my business forever.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I’ve had similar experiences in Georgia. I’ve gone to Target before with around 90% of people wearing masks but then I go to Whole Foods the next week and only 50% have them on. Usually doesn’t get much below that it seems but I’d say it’s usually in the 50-75% range. 

As far as businesses who don’t have employees wearing masks, I’ve noticed they’re usually the ones who’ve stayed opened until they were forced to close or one of their employees tested positive. Luckily it’s been a minority of businesses but the ones who have done that have lost my business forever.
Wow.  I feel like I am in bizzaro land up here then - which surprises me a bit being around the Madison area.   I think Costco is the only store in the area that I could say with confidence I could go into and know there would be 50%+ of people wearing masks in the store.   Target is close to 50/50, but besides that I feel like I am in the minority when I go into the store with my mask on.  

 
Joe shut the other thread down because some people were being rude. I wasn’t part of that, and many in that thread were raising good points. I want to address 2 of them: 

1. In response to my proposal to make mask wearing mandatory, @Ditkaless Wonders challenged me on how I would enforce it. It’s a good question; the Chinese enforced it with drones. That’s too draconian for me. My own answer is a lot simpler: you enforce it the same way you enforce laws against jaywalking or driving past the speed limit: if a policeman catches you without a mask, he writes you a ticket. This obviously won’t eliminate people not wearing masks, but it will serve as a deterrent and reduce their numbers which is my entire point. 
In truth I don’t think there will be a lot of trouble enforcing it once it’s the law. I think most people will abide by this when they are told that they must. 
2. Both @Ramblin Wreck and @tonydead made arguments that mask wearing should be situational, there are times when it made no sense to wear a mask, and thus it shouldn’t be mandatory. (in the case of tonydead this was a much more reasonable stance than his previous, IMO nonsensical “anti-mask” position.) I understand this principle and I’m normally sympathetic to it. Basically what they’re saying is that people with common sense shouldn’t be punished or restricted just because other people don’t have common sense. It’s a traditional conservative/libertarian argument and it has plenty of merit. But I just do not believe that it can be applied safely to a pandemic situation. The problem is that, unlike almost all other situations where this philosophy might apply, those without common sense in the midst of a pandemic are too much of a threat to the rest of us. Therefore I believe we are forced to adopt the “better safe than sorry” approach, which means we must all face restriction in order to protect all of us. 
So municipal police will enforce federal law. Will they be able to write the violation into federal courts?  I have a jurisdictional conundrum here I thought you may be able to elaborate on.  Maybe it should be the law, but a federal law as you suggest, I just see problems.

 
So municipal police will enforce federal law. Will they be able to write the violation into federal courts?  I have a jurisdictional conundrum here I thought you may be able to elaborate on.  Maybe it should be the law, but a federal law as you suggest, I just see problems.
Honestly the problem you raise didn’t occur to me. But you know what I want. There should be a way to get there. 

 
Mandatory wearing of masks is what needs to happen when we are out in public (my only exception is when you are out exercising, but if that becomes mandatory too, count me in).   For people who have medical conditions and cannot wear a mask when out in public, those individuals need to be mandated to wear a safety vest.   That way everyone would be aware that those who aren’t wearing a mask aren’t being selfish jerks, and hopefully there won’t be any arguments/fights that seem to have been happening in some areas.  For me personally, I hate wearing the mask, but until a vaccine is available, I’m all for being mandated to wear them.

 
A 4 page thread about masks gets closed by the owner---and a likely good decision as it seems the entire discussion was had and had again--and you haven't had enough?

Do you guys ever get kinda tired of discussing the same things day after day after day?   Doesn't it get exhausting?

Real question

And I wear a mask in public

 
Mandatory wearing of masks is what needs to happen when we are out in public (my only exception is when you are out exercising, but if that becomes mandatory too, count me in).   For people who have medical conditions and cannot wear a mask when out in public, those individuals need to be mandated to wear a safety vest.   That way everyone would be aware that those who aren’t wearing a mask aren’t being selfish jerks, and hopefully there won’t be any arguments/fights that seem to have been happening in some areas.  For me personally, I hate wearing the mask, but until a vaccine is available, I’m all for being mandated to wear them.
This makes sense, except I’d make the maskless guys wear a rigid 12 foot diameter hula hoop, to ensure they keep a safe distance from the rest of us.

Seriously though, my local county mandates masks inside all public businesses. People comply. It’s not that hard.

 
A 4 page thread about masks gets closed by the owner---and a likely good decision as it seems the entire discussion was had and had again--and you haven't had enough?

Do you guys ever get kinda tired of discussing the same things day after day after day?   Doesn't it get exhausting?

Real question

And I wear a mask in public
I missed the original thread, so this is all new to me. TBH, I’m surprised there’s anything to debate.

What would you prefer to discuss? Maybe start another thread.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top