Lives were going to be saved either way, just like when people stay home when they have the flu, we are equipped with survival instincts. Numbers assuming we did nothing are not worth much, we were never going to do nothing. But if you want to offset some saved lives please note I stated I think we are a lot further along with the percentage that have had it already. Any yes I used the high end of estimates for flu numbers (the range I found for this year went up to 66,000). But that doesnt matter either for my comparison to the flu because we have had years at 80,000 and higher.
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Can we continue the discussion about masks? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I wasn't suggesting we do nothing. I was wondering what is we had done more. We are at 130k deaths right now. If we did more where would we be 100k, 60k? I also disagree that we were never going to do nothing. We reacted to this instead of being proactive. Being on the other side of the world from China should have been a blessing and given us ample time to prepare and we didn't.
timschochet
Footballguy
Boring? No. Exhausting? Yes.
And Don Jr didn’t say something stupid. He retweeted a meme which seems to be popular among a certain large segment of Trump supporters: how large I have no idea. Why I have no idea. But it’s there and I find it infuriating that the President has done little up to this point to dissuade it and now his son is encouraging it.
You're having your cake and eating it too. We did so bad but you think we saved a bunch of lives is contradictory. How high do these latest spikes need to go for them to wipe out the number of lives you think we saved?
The bold is demonstrably false. We treat the sick and people would have stayed home on their own. You cant deny humans survival instinct.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Sure you can. You can think that we did save lives by taking the steps that we did, but overall we still did a bad job and could have saved even more.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
People go to work sick all the time so it isn't false.
As to the bolded they aren't mutually exclusive. You can do a bad job and still save lives. The fact would be you didn't save enough lives. Saving a life is good, saving only 1 life when you could have saved 10 is bad.
Right, but your numbers are smaller the worse job you think we did. Go ahead and offset it a tiny bit because I know we are past 30% contraction rate.
One person stays home and we didnt do nothing.
Not the other way around. We were never going to do nothing. It's an inverse relationship. Dont let up on how bad a job you think we did when you want to argue the numbers of it all.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
So you are making up your own numbers to down play this. I see we are at 2.7 million confirmed cases you are saying you are sure we are at over 100 million. Wild.
Studies have shown that randomly selected populations test as high as 25-30% with the covid antibody.
This is another have your cake moment. Remember how fast this was spreading, across the entire country in then very beginning? Do you hear the talk and stories about superspreaders today? It's been here for 6 months.
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Look at it another way and take note that having the virus and the antibodies (my claim) are two different things. We've tested quite a bit less than 10% of the population and have confirmed 3 million with the virus. You know asymptomatic numbers are very high, how many would you estimate have antibodies?
I dont think mathematically, with the info we have available, that number can be less than 60 million.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
When I want to check how solid my line of thinking is, I try to fully understand the opposite interpretation. Today I read an entire 171 post Tweetstorm from a U.S. construction working explaining why masks don’t work. Posted various links (most of which I read) and links to videos (most of which I skipped.) Cited as his credentials that he was OSHA-30 certified, & at one point wondered why they hadn’t weighed in on this yet...as if SARS CoV 2 & asbestos are same same.
I will admit that he made some very convincing arguments. But at the end of the day, who should I rely upon more? A hardhat who styles himself an expert on all things N95 because he took a 30 hour course? Or a virologist who had 40,000 hours of education + training before he became a doctor and has worked 60 hours a week for the last 50 years?
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
so basically wearing a mask can stop a virus ?
does anyone really believe that? you may avoid it today ... but a virus IS going to spread through the population eventually - its what fast moving virus like influenza and corona viruses do right ?
you might not get it today, but unless you are 100% isolated you WILL get it eventually .... right ?
sho nuff
Footballguy
Well no...the bolded is not the point.
It can help limit the spread more than not wearing masks...which is the whole entire point...which has been stated many times over.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Slow the spread, try to not overrun the hospitals, try to slow it and hopefully allow a vaccine to enter the equation.
Not sure what his argument is - we are all going to get it, so we might as well huddle up and get it over with?
Doug B
Footballguy
A society wearing masks -- or, narrower, a community wearing masks -- can stop a virus, yes.
EDIT: Or come close enough to "stopping" so that COVID-19 is readily manageable in a given population. "Stopping the virus" might be too absolute a statement.
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
"limit the spread"
what do you mean by that exactly ?
its a fast moving virus that eventually EVERYONE will be exposed to - do you agree?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I disagree
only total isolation will stop a person from getting a virus - viruses WILL spread through an entire population - a mask being worn some of the time by people in public will NEVER stop a virus like covid-19
ever
Doug B
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Umm I think the words are pretty clear. Limit the spread, slow down hospitalizations...buy time for the virus to "go away" as some in the past have to a point...or for a vaccine to be developed and be distributed.
No...I don't agree with an absolute that everyone will be exposed to it..."everyone" was not exposed to several viruses in the past. Not everyone has been fully exposed to every strain of flu that can always move fast as well.
Why? Because people take certain actions to mitigate, slow the spread, and limit exposure. In this case...wearing masks is one of the tools at our disposal.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
hospitalizations have to do with the health of the people getting it more so than anything
ya'll can wear your masks and pretend like you're super heroes immune from a virus if you want to - I don't think that's reality and unless you isolate yourself for the rest of your life you WILL be exposed to covid19 eventually
kwille
Footballguy
Pretty simple. Limit interaction with others to the degree practicable. When interaction occurs, wear a face covering to reduce chance of spread. Practice enhanced hygiene. Sanitize touch points. In aggregate, limit spread and buy time until a vaccine is in place. Again, pretty simple and easy enough to accomplish in most cases.
Not pretending to be super heroes. Just demonstrating common human decency by trying to protect people like you.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
covid-19 will not impact me - I'm 51, in good shape, I eat pretty good, exercise, I don't take any drug, don't smoke, no tobacco, no health issues .... statistically covid-19 will not impact mePrinefan said:
could I have covid-19 virus asymptomatic ? sure - I could carry it ... and I DO wear a mask in public most times for other people's fears ... now, in return I hope they don't mind me wearing my gun ....
this guy is saving lives
https://www.facebook.com/elise.w.lehrman/videos/10164139356850037/
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
You understand that wearing the mask is about protecting other people, right?Stealthycat said:
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I understand that, most people do not
I understand that eventually everyone will be exposed to covid-19 too ... most people don't understand that either
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Of course they do. That's why people get a little crabby that other's don't wear them. If I thought I was a super hero and immune to the virus while wearing a mask, why would I care if other's don't have them on?
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
because its not too hard for me to do KarmaPolice
however, if someone isn't wearing a mask and I'm out ? I don't care, and if I DID care? I'd leave .... because nobody is forcing me to go to Wal-mart or Lowes and I full well know by going into the public and having contact with ANYONE I'm exposing myself
and if I expose myself, I'll expose everyone I'm around
I assume everyone saying "everyone wear masks" for public safety also says "we must stop all these BLM and Antifa rallies" ... you know, for public safety right ?
shader
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
You probably shouldn't expose yourself when you are out.
Like you said, it's not hard to to. Of course I can leave stores, and I have a few times during this. Doesn't make me understand other people's unwillingness to do a simple thing that effects other people.
Stop rallies, no. Do I think they should follow the same rules or dont have them? Yes. I see you left out presidential rallies out of your post...
sho nuff
Footballguy
Yeah you aren't speaking anything more than your baseless opinion on hospitalizations and masks. As well as bogus attacks as nobody is talking about being a superhero or being immune. As usual, nothing to refute what is being posted to you...just basically ignoring what you've been shown many times over.Stealthycat said:
Yes. Eventually...when we hopefully have a vaccine or other positive treatments to fight it. Again, that is the point of taking precautions.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Antifa rallies? Odd how you are again making baseless claims about these things.
I think most have hoped people practiced social distancing and would hope people would wear masks. And most have been against the actual violence. But thanks for the strawman.
beef
Footballguy
People have to go grocery shopping dude. People have to go to work at these stores making like 10 bucks an hour. It falls on you to leave my friend if you don't have a mask on, not other people who need to work to support their family or shop for groceries.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
So much this. That's why a lot of these "I can do it, why can't they" type of posts so short sighted and lack a bit of empathy. I don't like to assume why others are there - maybe they don't have internet to order from a store, maybe they are have a different schedule and can't do it at a less busy time, on and on. Just because I am in decent health, doesn't mean everybody there is. Like you said, that doesn't include the workers that have to be there all day and are just trying to get through the day and get home safely. I figure the least I can do is try to keep a safe distance and wear a mask to keep exposure to a bare minimum.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
nobody wants any disease to go from coast to coast and everyone be exposed ... but viruses with no cures that move very fast do that
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I don't care about covid-19 .... its not going to affect me IMO I have such a minute chance .... it doesn't bother me. H1H1 didn't, swine didn't, bird flue didn't, hantavirus didn't, snakes don't, car wrecks don't, drone attacks don't ............ if I were auto-immune compromised? I'd be careful around everyone all the time not wanting to catch a common cold or flu etcYou probably shouldn't expose yourself when you are out.
Ya'll realize almost all the cases of covid-19 infections people survive right ? I mean reported deaths are nowhere near accurate, we all know this .... and while every death is important my gawd we don't freak out at 35,000 auto deaths or 200,000 medical mistakes deaths or gawd the 500,000 tobacco deaths every year
Stealthycat
Footballguy
no, its not on me - I do it, but its not "on me"
everyone takes risks when they drive, when the walk, when they work, when the do everything they do in life ..... and this IS A VIRUS
masks will not stop it - ITS A VIRUS
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Dude, the part you quoted was a joke.
And we get it - you don't care. But people not taking precautions are choosing for other people.
...and away we go with the "what about X causing death!!"
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the moops
Footballguy
