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On 7/5/2020 at 6:06 AM, AcerFC said:

 

What a stupid way to die. In a duel. Because someone said something bad about you. 

HOW ABOUT A SPOILER ALERT, JERKBAG.

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19 minutes ago, RUSF18 said:

Mindhunter was my first time seeing him but my wife has been obsessed with him as a performer for a long time. He either won a Tony or was nominated for the lead role in Spring Awakening.

He also does the voice of Kristof in the Frozen movies. 

 

He was also pretty well known due to a role on Glee back in the day, among a certain demographic.

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Posted (edited)

The other crazy thing about Miranda is that he was *this* close to having an EGOT already at a pretty young age, I'm sure he'll achieve it sooner rather than later. 

Edited by ConnSKINS26

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Psychopav said:

 Also, did Hamilton actually point his gun at the sky just like his son did, or were those embellishments for the drama of it?

According to the accounts described in Wiki, neither of them did this.  But Alexander's shot hit a tree branch about 12 ft high, so perhaps he intentionally fired the gun high...or was just a bad shot.

Phillip's duel

Alexander's duel

 

Edited by Galileo

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1 hour ago, Psychopav said:

Oh and I haven't seen Moana but a couple of my kids live the music. It certainly doesn't seem to be lacking in emotional gravitas, musically speaking, from the bits I've heard. Does it have thematic through lines like a Broadway music (or top notch space opera) might have?

Not quite but it has a really unique storyline for those kinds of movies: a young girl on a quest gets aided by a powerful man who shows her how to be true to herself to achieve her goal, yet without any semblance of a romantic relationship. 

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56 minutes ago, Galileo said:

According to the accounts described in Wiki, neither of them did this.  But Alexander's shot hit a tree branch about 12 ft high, so perhaps he intentionally fired the gun high...or was just a bad shot.

Phillip's duel

Alexander's duel

 

 

Yeah I remember hearing the story and knowing the history, so, I was waiting the whole play for the lyric "not going to throw away my shot" to pay off, since the gentlemanly thing in a duel is to "throw away your shot"--miss on purpose but still save face by showing up to duel and standing up for your actions. I remember hearing some accounts that he did throw his away and that Burr then took his time to aim carefully before firing back.

Also liked that the drinking song "The World Turned Upside Down" showed up, the British militia really did play that as they surrendered to end the Revolutionary war. Knew that before and it was a nice surprise to see it in the play.

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On 7/5/2020 at 11:24 AM, Yankee23Fan said:

For me:

It broke every mold of Broadway there is. Music, set design,  lighting, dance, use of topics with brilliant flare.... it is the heart of what true story telling on Broadway is supposed to be;

Turning cabinet meeting into rap battles was absolutely brilliant in every way.

Basing Hamiltons ambition on never wanting to waste his shot when he ultimately likely did was just magnificent story telling.

They used George Washingtons Fairwell Address as a song.... i was floored.

The leading women were amazing.

The rewind part was maybe the coolest thing I have ever seen on Broadway ever. 

The casting was inspired.

The entire Jefferson character and story was the greatest interpretation of Jefferson I've ever seen in entertainment.

The music ..... just fit. It wasn't hip hop for the sake of being different, it actually told the story better than operatic Les Mis style could.

Elisa breaking the 4th wall at the very end was, for me, the greatest ending of a broadway show ever. In that moment I truly appreciated what Miranda was trying to say with the entire story and the profound importance of this time period and how we look back at it.....and how they knew we would.

There is more. In the end, for me, this is the best version of broadway I've seen since the 10th anniversary global Les Mis concert.

This, and basically every main character was a minority, whilst the backup dancers had many white folks.  Flipping the script of broadway in general, but also in retelling a story which was solely by white men and women using minorities.  

I read "Dear Hamilton" and Chernow's book that inspired Hamilton, and appreciated what Miranda put in and left out.  There's a ton more to his story that was not included in the play that would've been interesting (such as both hamilton and wife catching yellow fever and defying conventional medical wisdom on how to treat it, publishing a different treatment method that was better than bleeding, and being mocked for it by the medical community back then), but you can't tell an entire story and have to distill things down to the most relevant/compelling pieces.

Just an all-around amazing accomplishment.  So many pop-culture references making the story come alive in a new way, without really changing the fundamentals of what happened.

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Watched four times this weekend. Friday night with the Twitter Watching Party with the cast was really interesting, and with my kids on Sunday evening pausing it to verify dates in Wikipedia, talking history and explaining to my 11 yo daughter that Hamilton was married and had a girlfriend was also a lot of fun.

Simply amazing. I echo all of the things said already. Before this weekend I had only heard the soundtrack and seen the YouTube clips from the White House, as we were getting ready for September tickets here in Fort Worth (thanks COVID and Trump). I didn't give the second act as much attention as all of the "hits" were in the first half. I won't make that mistake anymore. Daveed Diggs owns the stage as Jefferson (pretty amazing as Lafayette as well), and the gut punches from Eliza are brutal. I'm getting season tickets for whatever Phillipa Soo does from here on out.

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This is such a beautiful masterwork of American art.

I saw it in San Diego a couple years ago. I've also had a torrent of a bootlegged Broadway production for a few years that is fairly similar to the Disney+ version. I've watched it probably 15 times. I still tear up each time.

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Dueling really is a stupid way to die. Whole lot of ego. Imagine being his wife and losing both your son and husband to duels.

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35 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

This is such a beautiful masterwork of American art.

I saw it in San Diego a couple years ago. I've also had a torrent of a bootlegged Broadway production for a few years that is fairly similar to the Disney+ version. I've watched it probably 15 times. I still tear up each time.

We saw it in London.  The parts with the King went over very well.  

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5 minutes ago, LAUNCH said:

We saw it in London.  The parts with the King went over very well.  

We saw it there in 2018 and they loved the King.

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16 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Dueling really is a stupid way to die. Whole lot of ego. Imagine being his wife and losing both your son and husband to duels.

Back then, in the olden days, people actually cared about their reputations. And one's reputation traveled through their social circle faster and with greater impact. 

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1 hour ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

This is such a beautiful masterwork of American art.

I saw it in San Diego a couple years ago. I've also had a torrent of a bootlegged Broadway production for a few years that is fairly similar to the Disney+ version. I've watched it probably 15 times. I still tear up each time.

Nicely put. Agree 1000%
 

Mrs and I watched it this weekend, plan on watching it again next week on vacation with my parents as well. The cool thing about having it at our fingertips on Disney+ is that we can just jump in and watch one song a night. We did that the last 2 nights. So great. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Walking Boot said:

Back then, in the olden days, people actually cared about their reputations. And one's reputation traveled through their social circle faster and with greater impact. 

Death is not as important as reputations, though your point is taken. There must be a happy medium that doesn't involved lawyerly tactics. Or future lawyers. I was the victim of some pretty pernicious gossip back in law school back 2007, some of it deserved, most of it not, and not easily or humanely refutable. The problem is when nobody is given an official channel to respond through, as gossip is selective and usually decided by those holding social capital rather than truth. I would have loved a gunshot.  

Future lawyers are the worst. 

Edited by rockaction

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Back to Hamilton. I'm going to have to check it out if it's free on Disney Plus. Sounds like a good way to spend some time.

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8 hours ago, Psychopav said:

I had heard a lot about this, with several friends having seen it and my wife and one of my daughters as well. I stayed away from the production when it came through due to the cost and but being familiar with the music, but watched it last night on Disney+. Very well done, very clear Les Mis and other notable Broadway musical influences. If he keeps going Miranda could be the next Andrew Lloyd Weber.  I'm very glad that I was able to watch with subtitles since I was not familiar with the tunes or lyrics whatsoever. 

I do wish he had given just a little more technical details about the battle tactics and a little more about the immediate lead up to and reason behind the duel at the end. It just seemed a little bit light in both these areas. 

Also, did Hamilton actually point his gun at the sky just like his son did, or were those embellishments for the drama of it?

Lastly, Les Mis and Weber set incredibly high bars for musical themes. I do think he could have done better with the thematic through lines, although I admit if I had a more refined ear for hip hop they may have resonated more with me. I did get the old school NYC rap themes and the Eminem/rap battle cadences, and picked up on the romantic musical themes, but it seemed like all could have been punctuated better and more powerfully. I'll have to watch again, but if it's true that he was heavily involved in the new SW trilogy scoring this might be an ongoing (pardon the pun) theme with his writing. The new trilogy score was also considerably lacking in memorable, powerful themes tying back to the recurring elements of the stories themselves. Another example where the comparison is probably not all that fair, considering John Williams' skills, but something Miranda certainly seems to have room to improve upon.

Good stuff.

Fwiw... Les Mis was the point at which I realized I just didn't like the genre. Saw it early on Broadway as a kid and just didn't like the music or schmaltzy theatrical approach at all.. Same goes for a lot of Lloyd Webber's stuff for me.

8 hours ago, Psychopav said:

Oh and I haven't seen Moana but a couple of my kids live the music. It certainly doesn't seem to be lacking in emotional gravitas, musically speaking, from the bits I've heard. Does it have thematic through lines like a Broadway music (or top notch space opera) might have?

Iirc, each song is different. But some great tunes in it that go in different directions.

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17 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Best thing Ive seen on TV in a couple years.

I take this back.  Was thinking GOT was 2018 and not 2019.  Best thing Ive seen since the Game of Thrones -- Long Night.

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10 hours ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

HOW ABOUT A SPOILER ALERT, JERKBAG.

Good thing that wasnt a final jeopardy question

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Posted (edited)

The genius of this...

The ensemble cast member who catches a couple of bullets and carries them towards Hamilton at various points in the show, I'm sure that part we all noticed...but she is "death" throughout the entire show.

Other than Hamilton's family dying in what is essentially the prologue, a character she plays in a group number is the first to die. Then throughout the rest of the show she interacts with all the major characters who die next, as a sort of premonition of death. During Stay Alive, she's moving towards Hamilton and Laurens physically sticks his arm out to block her advance...then she plays a character who helps Laurens kill a redcoat, and they shake hands. He dies next not long after, after literally shaking hands with death. Then she catches and carries a bullet that narrowly misses Hamilton, some obvious foreshadowing. Later, she plays the ensemble character who tells Phillip where the guy he has beef with is (the one who he confronts during a play and challenges to a duel), and flirts with Phillip before he goes. He literally flirts with death and then goes off to start the chain of events that will end in his death. Then at the end during the final fateful duel she obviously catches and carries Burr's bullet towards Hamilton one last time, and he only has time to reminisce and have that time-stop moment of clarity before he dies because in the dance choreography the rest of the ensemble creatively obstructs her (death's) path to him for as long as they can. Then time resumes and he dies.

Wild stuff. I'm sure everyone remembers her from carrying the bullets but in case it's not ringing a bell she's the one who had kind of the front-facing poof of hair over her eyes. 

 

Edit: she also plays the character who delivers news of John Adams impending presidency post-Washington to the King...I'm trying to figure out how this fits with the above because it feels like it must...maybe because Adams' presidency was dead on arrival? Or Hamilton's political career was killed during this presidency? 

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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Just came across two fun facts:

Burr was Maria Reynolds divorce attorney.

One of Hamilton's sons was the divorce attorney for Burr's wife, later.

What a savage rivalry, can't make this stuff up. 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/5/2020 at 9:24 AM, Yankee23Fan said:

For me:

It broke every mold of Broadway there is. Music, set design,  lighting, dance, use of topics with brilliant flare.... it is the heart of what true story telling on Broadway is supposed to be;

Turning cabinet meeting into rap battles was absolutely brilliant in every way.

Basing Hamiltons ambition on never wanting to waste his shot when he ultimately likely did was just magnificent story telling.

They used George Washingtons Fairwell Address as a song.... i was floored.

The leading women were amazing.

The rewind part was maybe the coolest thing I have ever seen on Broadway ever. 

The casting was inspired.

The entire Jefferson character and story was the greatest interpretation of Jefferson I've ever seen in entertainment.

The music ..... just fit. It wasn't hip hop for the sake of being different, it actually told the story better than operatic Les Mis style could.

Elisa breaking the 4th wall at the very end was, for me, the greatest ending of a broadway show ever. In that moment I truly appreciated what Miranda was trying to say with the entire story and the profound importance of this time period and how we look back at it.....and how they knew we would.

There is more. In the end, for me, this is the best version of broadway I've seen since the 10th anniversary global Les Mis concert.

Really great overview -- this is something you should simply watch, period, for its art and for the history it draws from. I appreciated everything about this show. But appreciation is really about all I took away from it.

As a caveat, I am not a Broadway guy. It's a form I appreciate but singing a story to me just becomes...trite after a bit. I feel that way about every Broadway show I've seen. Same with opera. I don't hold up my nose at either -- I've seen my fair share of both as I think they are both important and worthy forms of art. I don't deny myself or my family exposure to it just because it's not my cuppa.

While I appreciate everything about Broadway objectively, and specifically all the molds Hamilton broke and the bars it raised on its own accord, from a subjective point of view I though Hamilton was decent. But nothing that made me go gaga.

Unlike some other musicals, I did not come away from watching Hamilton with any of the tunes specifically stuck in my head or even really that memorable. In fact, the only thing I really recall are the vocables in the king's song (perhaps because that recurred a few times) and the way "A-lex-an-der Ha-mil-ton" was chanted (almost trochaic tetrameter but with 4 trochees and just 7 syllables instead of 8 .

The songs were powerful to watch and listen to, and the performers were awesome in their delivery, but to me it lacked the kind of permanence and singability/recallability like songs from Broadway shows and musicals like Annie or Guys and Dolls.

Edited by Stompin' Tom Connors
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Watched it twice in the last 3 days.  Turning on subtitles helps capture detail in the story if it goes too fast for you, but loved this so much.  

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7 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

The genius of this...

The ensemble cast member who catches a couple of bullets and carries them towards Hamilton at various points in the show, I'm sure that part we all noticed...but she is "death" throughout the entire show.

Ah, so basically she’s The Godfather orange. 

Didn’t pick up on this the first and only time I watched - was basically acclimating myself with the story/music. Will have to give it another view.

 

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6 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Really great overview -- this is something you should simply watch, period, for its art and for the history it draws from. I appreciated everything about this show. But appreciation is really about all I took away from it.

As a caveat, I am not a Broadway guy. It's a form I appreciate but singing a story to me just becomes...trite after a bit. I feel that way about every Broadway show I've seen. Same with opera. I don't hold up my nose at either -- I've seen my fair share of both as I think they are both important and worthy forms of art. I don't deny myself or my family exposure to it just because it's not my cuppa.

While I appreciate everything about Broadway objectively, and specifically all the molds Hamilton broke and the bars it raised on its own accord, from a subjective point of view I though Hamilton was decent. But nothing that made me go gaga.

Unlike some other musicals, I did not come away from watching Hamilton with any of the tunes specifically stuck in my head or even really that memorable. In fact, the only thing I really recall are the vocables in the king's song (perhaps because that recurred a few times) and the way "A-lex-an-der Ha-mil-ton" was chanted (almost trochaic tetrameter but with 4 trochees and just 7 syllables instead of 8 .

The songs were powerful to watch and listen to, and the performers were awesome in their delivery, but to me it lacked the kind of permanence and singability/recallability like songs from Broadway shows and musicals like Annie or Guys and Dolls.

Good stuff.

My folks were musical fans, so I got/had to see a bunch as a kid and they'd listen to the records. Shows of their generation...Bernstein (west side story, Candide) and stuff like guys and dolls loomed large, and I still enjoy them and the music, even if your sentiment about musicals in general rings true for me too (one of my best friends from college ended up in the Broadway revival of Candide and I skipped work to see her the one time when she got to go on as the understudy and play the lead). But I'm just not a fan. Lloyd Weber does nothing for me- music or approach (outside of staging). And even more modern shows like the Disney stuff or Rent still feel forced and musically irrelevant. It's clear to me the more recent trend of using existing hit songs in shows is a cyncial attempt to get people (like me) in the theater. Last show I genuinely enjoyed in the theater was Avenue Q, but for the humor and concept more than the music.

But I'd put Hamilton's music up against anything in terms of having tunes (and I didn't know them going in the first time) that stuck with me. King George, sure...but the rewind song (to the groom, etc), the room where it happened, shot, and a few others lodged in my noggin immediately.

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Daughter in the office with me today. Curled up across my desk, earbuds in, Hamilton on the iPad. She's singing along with every line quietly and it's the perfect noise.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/7/2020 at 6:46 PM, The Gator said:

Found this gem - from 2009 - 6 years before Hamilton opened on Off-Broadway:

 

Lin-Manuel Miranda Performs at the White House Poetry Jam

So great to see that other folks are going down the same rabbits holes I did when I first saw Hamilton. So much fun to be reliving all these discoveries with you all!

Edited by joey
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On 7/4/2020 at 5:40 PM, BobbyLayne said:

My 11 y.o. daughter’s favorite

🎵 
And when push comes to shove
I will send a fully armed battalion to remind you of my love! 

🎶  

One day I was getting on her case about not doing a chore of hers. She spun around and walked away singing

Da da da dat da dat da da da da ya da
Da da dat dat da ya da!
Da da da dat da dat da da da da ya da
Da da dat dat da…

My 10 y.o. son's, too. 

Actually, to get technical about it, his favorite is "I Know Him", which is the third version of the song (the one he sings when Adams becomes president).

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Fortunate to have seen this on broadway in 2016 with Javier Munoz as Hamilton. He was amazing. It was a few weeks after LMM left so a lot of the original cast was there. That was one of, if not the best event I ever attended. I was dumbstruck. I keep a picture of my wife and I underneath the theatre sign in my office. 
 

The movie they put on Disney plus is a triumph. Beautifully shot. Just a wonderful, amazing piece of art. How anybody could do this is mind-splitting to me. 

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And it’s quiet uptown brings a little tear every time I see it. 

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I was lucky enough to watch it live on Broadway and again on Disney+ with my 2 daughters who have listened to it 1000x and have every word memorized. They explained every scene to me like the dolt I am. I would've had to watch it 20 times to pick up all the stuff they told me during the show.

One of the cool things we went back and watched was the opening scene where the main characters (several of whom play 2 characters) explained their relationships to Hamilton. Many times it was a play on words or the characters they played. For example, the 3 girls all said "I loved him" (1 was the sister he married, 1 was the sister who loved him, and 1 was the 3rd sister who also played his mistress in Act 2). Also, the guy who played Lafayette and Jefferson says "I fought with him" (he fought with him on his side as Lafayettte and against him as Jefferson). And the actor who played his best friend in Act 1 and his son in Act 2 said "I died for him" - which he did, in both acts). There were tons of little things they showed me like this during the movie. I could watch it again and again. :thumbup:

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I think we’ve watched it 7, 8 times this week?  We’ve literally just put it on every night since it was available. And I listen to the soundtrack while I work during the day. Obsessed much?

its just astonishingly good. And it has gotten better each time I’ve watched. Each time I pick up something new or catch a lyric I didn’t hear before. I finally understand the breaking the 4th wall thing at the end. 
 

the music is fantastic. I love the characters. I initially found second act a lot more boring than the first, but it is so emotional and just crushes me now. 
 

So so great. What talent. The way they keep weaving in all the prior songs and themes into later ones, or preview later songs with a line here and there, and make it all fit perfectly is unreal.  This guy is a mega genius. 

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32 minutes ago, Otis said:

I think we’ve watched it 7, 8 times this week?  We’ve literally just put it on every night since it was available. And I listen to the soundtrack while I work during the day. Obsessed much?

its just astonishingly good. And it has gotten better each time I’ve watched. Each time I pick up something new or catch a lyric I didn’t hear before. I finally understand the breaking the 4th wall thing at the end. 
 

the music is fantastic. I love the characters. I initially found second act a lot more boring than the first, but it is so emotional and just crushes me now. 
 

So so great. What talent. The way they keep weaving in all the prior songs and themes into later ones, or preview later songs with a line here and there, and make it all fit perfectly is unreal.  This guy is a mega genius. 

Agree with all of this. Working at home, it’s pretty much been background all week for us and we’ve sat through it twice. Two year dances around to it.
 

Showed it to my mom last weekend and she couldn’t believe something like that existed. If rona ever ends I think we’re gonna take her since her 75th birthday event got cancelled this year. 

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33 minutes ago, Otis said:

I think we’ve watched it 7, 8 times this week?  We’ve literally just put it on every night since it was available. And I listen to the soundtrack while I work during the day. Obsessed much?

its just astonishingly good. And it has gotten better each time I’ve watched. Each time I pick up something new or catch a lyric I didn’t hear before. I finally understand the breaking the 4th wall thing at the end. 
 

the music is fantastic. I love the characters. I initially found second act a lot more boring than the first, but it is so emotional and just crushes me now. 
 

So so great. What talent. The way they keep weaving in all the prior songs and themes into later ones, or preview later songs with a line here and there, and make it all fit perfectly is unreal.  This guy is a mega genius. 

The second act gets me everytime.  Have you seen it live yet?  We saw it in Chicago after Miguel Cervantes's daughter passed away.  It was so hard watching him when Philip died.

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8 hours ago, Otis said:

I think we’ve watched it 7, 8 times this week?  We’ve literally just put it on every night since it was available. And I listen to the soundtrack while I work during the day. Obsessed much?

its just astonishingly good. And it has gotten better each time I’ve watched. Each time I pick up something new or catch a lyric I didn’t hear before. I finally understand the breaking the 4th wall thing at the end. 
 

the music is fantastic. I love the characters. I initially found second act a lot more boring than the first, but it is so emotional and just crushes me now. 
 

So so great. What talent. The way they keep weaving in all the prior songs and themes into later ones, or preview later songs with a line here and there, and make it all fit perfectly is unreal.  This guy is a mega genius. 

I've seen it twice live, twice on Disney+ and listened to the soundtrack hundreds of times and still feel like I pick up on something I missed before every time. 

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I saw on Broadway shortly after Miranda left with Munoz as Hamilton.  I still saw some of the original cast (like Jackson and Onaodowan). Good to finally see it with the full original cast.

I love the way that musical style blends into the characters too. The British King George singing some British Invasion style tunes, which were displaced at the edge of culture by rap and hip hop.  He also has simpler lyrics (“dat dat da da ya da da” only slightly more intricate than McCartney’s la’s times infinity in Hey Jude) relative to the lyrics of the others.

King George’s British pop behind the times only beat by Jefferson’s jazzy “What’d I Miss,” as he seemed to miss 50 years of music.

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

I love the way that musical style blends into the characters too. The British King George singing some British Invasion style tunes, which were displaced at the edge of culture by rap and hip hop.  He also has simpler lyrics (“dat dat da da ya da da” only slightly more intricate than McCartney’s la’s times infinity in Hey Jude) relative to the lyrics of the others.

King George’s British pop behind the times only beat by Jefferson’s jazzy “What’d I Miss,” as he seemed to miss 50 years of music.

In the same vein, Lafayette's raps start simple and get more complicated as Act I goes on, indicating the character getting more comfortable with English.

Edited by Murph
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Posted (edited)

I hear my daughter watching it now

I want to thank whoever suggested founding brothers. I got it on Audible. I'm loving it. I never enjoyed learning about Revolutionary times, so listening to it, I am learning a lot. 

What I dont understand is why Hamilton wanted the nation to absorb the states debts. I get that he believed money in fewer hands was better (which is why we have such a divide in wealth today). I just dont get why he wouldnt want the states to pay back their own debt and then create a national bank. Anyone know?

ETA: it is also making the play more enjoyable the more I think about it. 

Edited by AcerFC
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I watched the first half again last night. I am enjoying it more on the second viewing. I am blown away that sometimes just the right people come together and create something like this. 

I turned off the cc for this viewing and I think that is part of why I am enjoying t more this time around. I'm just more aware of the facial reactions and movement when cc is off.

 

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2 minutes ago, prosopis said:

I watched the first half again last night. I am enjoying it more on the second viewing. I am blown away that sometimes just the right people come together and create something like this. 

I turned off the cc for this viewing and I think that is part of why I am enjoying t more this time around. I'm just more aware of the facial reactions and movement when cc is off.

 

I haven’t watched it once with cc. Yes I missed stuff the first time around, but now it’s pretty easy. 

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7 hours ago, AcerFC said:

I hear my daughter watching it now

I want to thank whoever suggested founding brothers. I got it on Audible. I'm loving it. I never enjoyed learning about Revolutionary times, so listening to it, I am learning a lot. 

What I dont understand is why Hamilton wanted the nation to absorb the states debts. I get that he believed money in fewer hands was better (which is why we have such a divide in wealth today). I just dont get why he wouldnt want the states to pay back their own debt and then create a national bank. Anyone know?

ETA: it is also making the play more enjoyable the more I think about it. 

From wiki:  

Quote

Hamilton proposed that the federal Treasury take over and pay off all the debt that states had incurred to pay for the American Revolution. The Treasury would issue bonds that rich people would buy, thereby giving the rich a tangible stake in the success of the national government.

Basically, Hamilton knew that you'd need the rich to go along if you wanted the new government to take hold.  So the Treasury would issue bonds to sell to rich people who could buy them from the Treasury because the states weren't taxing them to pay off the debt from the war, which got the rich people invested in the federal government succeeding.  He then used that money to pay off the debt from the states.  He was going to pay off the bonds with tariffs levied by the federal government on imports.

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15 hours ago, AcerFC said:

I hear my daughter watching it now

I want to thank whoever suggested founding brothers. I got it on Audible. I'm loving it. I never enjoyed learning about Revolutionary times, so listening to it, I am learning a lot. 

What I dont understand is why Hamilton wanted the nation to absorb the states debts. I get that he believed money in fewer hands was better (which is why we have such a divide in wealth today). I just dont get why he wouldnt want the states to pay back their own debt and then create a national bank. Anyone know?

ETA: it is also making the play more enjoyable the more I think about it. 

 

There's a pretty good divide even currently in modern Economics :nerd: circles about debt owed when a new government is formed. Like, say the people rise up and overthrow a dictator. They form a new government. Do they still owe the debt from the previous dictator, or, can they repudiate it? On the one hand, that debt was the tool of oppression that they fought against in the first place. That agreement was made with the previous regime, and he's been violently overthrown. So some say past debt can be repudiated on moral grounds. On the other hand... to renounce the debt could potentially signal to new creditors that you're not credit worthy. And it could anger some countries you might need to ally with. So, practically, the success of the new country could rely on honoring that immoral debt.

Still is discussed to this day, when a new government is formed.

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I thought all the singers in this movie were outstanding.

But imo the guy who played Washington just killed it. 

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On 7/5/2020 at 8:58 PM, heckmanm said:

Not only that, but there were deliberate parallels in the casting as LMM notes here. Notably, from the opening number:

  • Daveed Diggs (Lafayette/Jefferson) sings "We fought with him" - as both men did, albeit in different senses of "fought with"

Okieriete Onaodowan (Mulligan/Madison) has the same line.

 

One of the many Easter Eggs in the show:

The last time Lafayette and Hamilton speak (at Yorktown), Hamilton says "see you on the other side"

The next time those 2 actors are together on stage, Lafayette is now Jefferson, the (political) other side.

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2 hours ago, leftcoastguy7 said:

I thought all the singers in this movie were outstanding.

But imo the guy who played Washington just killed it. 

Christopher Jackson. Huge body of work, including Simba In Lion King.  Phenomenal talent as was the entire original cast 

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Finally got around to watching this today with the family and loved it. Really well done all around.

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On 7/4/2020 at 3:36 PM, El Floppo said:

It's absolutely superlative musical theater.

I'm not a big fan of the genre, but everything about this show- story, characters, music, acting, staging, lighting, sets...just amazing. I saw this live a couple years ago after the original cast had left, knowing little other than the superlatives and for the price and ####ty uncomfortable seats, had somewhat low expectations. Even though like the previous poster, I didn't understand all the lyrics, I loved it start to finish. Just blown away.

Getting to watch it again with better more comfortable seats and the original cast...amazing.

 

I turned on the closed captioning early on and it made a big difference in my enjoyment level.

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5 hours ago, cap'n grunge said:

I turned on the closed captioning early on and it made a big difference in my enjoyment level.

Me too. Generally, I hate closed captioning as it’s distracting but it made it so much easier to follow the lyrics which made the experience better. Next time I can probably watch without them now.

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