What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Anti-maskers, can we talk about why? (1 Viewer)

Status
Not open for further replies.
mr. furley

mr. furley

Footballguy
i'm decidedly pro-mask and have barely left my house except to get gas and groceries.  we've gone out to eat 3 times in the last 4 months. and only to eat outside at places that have spaced their tables. 

if i'm at a grocery store, depending on the time of day people seem mostly responsible. after 5 PM, it's probably 60/40 in favor of masks.  early morning or around lunch time it's more like 90/10 masked.

otherwise, as i drive, walk, bike or run from place to place i'm going to say it's 10% masks at any given location.  why?  what is the argument for not wearing a mask? what is your logic/reason for going sans mask?

honestly curious because maybe there is some legitimate, logical, real reason behind it that i just haven't considered yet  :shrug:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Are there really any anti-maskers who actively post on this forum?  Serious question because I have my doubts.  And please don't single anyone out.  I'm just curious.  

 
fred_1_15301 said:
Are there really any anti-maskers who actively post on this forum?  Serious question because I have my doubts.  And please don't single anyone out.  I'm just curious.  
Click to expand...
Considering masks have become political...somehow...I'm sure there are more than a few in the PF at the very least. 

 
El Floppo said:
Considering masks have become political...somehow...I'm sure there are more than a few in the PF at the very least. 
Click to expand...
There are several in there that seem to argue against masks, but still claim that they use them when they go to stores, etc..  :shrug:    I can think of a handful of those folks, but not sure I could name one who has come out and said they don't wear one at all.  

 
I honestly see absolutely no reason to not wear a mask. It's such a small inconvenience that possibly helps all of us in the long run and has no downside other than, what, a little annoyance?  

We enjoy many "rights" in America but we also know that common sense and responsibility must be counted for, especially when you have a unique, unprecedented issue.  

We are starting to see more and more companies and municipalities require masks...now we need to see it enforced

 
Brony said:
If I'm not going to be in proximity of another human for longer than 3 seconds, then I don't wear a mask.  (eg. biking on a barely used bike path or walking around the neighborhood).   If I'm going to be indoors where there are people, I wear a mask. 
Click to expand...
Same. When I am walking around, I don't need a mask. I don't live in a crowded city and if people are coming on the sidewalk, there is an unwritten rule that the parties separate either by crossing street, walking on the grass, etc. 

 
Shutout said:
I honestly see absolutely no reason to not wear a mask. It's such a small inconvenience that possibly helps all of us in the long run and has no downside other than, what, a little annoyance?  

We enjoy many "rights" in America but we also know that common sense and responsibility must be counted for, especially when you have a unique, unprecedented issue.  

We are starting to see more and more companies and municipalities require masks...now we need to see it enforced
Click to expand...
Right, the downside of the mask is so small and the upside is so massive. Not wearing a mask in crowded public spaces or indoors is a basic lesson in poor decision making. 

 
Brony said:
If I'm not going to be in proximity of another human for longer than 3 seconds, then I don't wear a mask.  (eg. biking on a barely used bike path or walking around the neighborhood).   If I'm going to be indoors where there are people, I wear a mask. 
Click to expand...
I have a mask/face-covering ready for any contact closer than 6', regardless of time or actual effect (even when jogging). It's my way of actively showing, in an insignificant way, that I give a crap about the people around me. 

Living in NYC, it's difficult to be anywhere where I'm not going to be moving past people closer than 6', so the mask is up most of the time when I'm outside the apartment.

 
Brony said:
If I'm not going to be in proximity of another human for longer than 3 seconds, then I don't wear a mask.  (eg. biking on a barely used bike path or walking around the neighborhood).   If I'm going to be indoors where there are people, I wear a mask. 
Click to expand...
Same here.  If I'm clearly social distancing, no mask.   

 
mr. furley said:
i'm decidedly pro-mask and have barely left my house except to get gas and groceries.  we've gone out to eat 3 times in the last 4 months. and only to eat outside at places that have spaced their tables. 

if i'm at a grocery store, depending on the time of day people seem mostly responsible. after 5 PM, it's probably 60/40 in favor of masks.  early morning or around lunch time it's more like 90/10 masked.

otherwise, as i drive, walk, bike or run from place to place i'm going to say it's 10% masks at any given location.  why?  what is the argument for not wearing a mask? what is your logic/reason for going sans mask?

honestly curious because maybe there is some legitimate, logical, real reason behind it that i just haven't considered yet  :shrug:
Click to expand...
I am not an anti masker... I am anti mask-as-dogma.  It should be distance, distance distance distance distance..... wash your hands and wear a mask when you cant distance.

Masks fall far behind distancing, and behind washing your hands imo.

Logical reasons being so many of us wear them wrong, don't wash them, touch our faces more when they are on.... AND questionable efficacy beyond short time frames.  A mask you have been breathing on for a while is wet, a wet mask is attracting and sticking stuff to your face.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
matuski said:
I am not an anti masker... I am an anti mask-as-dogma.  It should be distance, distance distance distance distance..... wash your hands and wear a mask when you cant distance.

Masks fall far behind distancing, and behind washing your hands imo

Logical reasons being so many of us wear them wrong, don't wash them, touch our faces more when they are on.... AND questionable efficacy beyond short time frames.
Click to expand...
appreciate the honesty

do you think that in instances where distance cannot be effectively maintained wearing a mask is burdensome?

do you feel that "wearing wrong", "not washed", "people touching faces" is so prevalent that it doesn't make sense to ever wear a mask?

what period of time renders a mask inefficient?

 
mr. furley said:
appreciate the honesty

do you think that in instances where distance cannot be effectively maintained wearing a mask is burdensome?

do you feel that "wearing wrong", "not washed", "people touching faces" is so prevalent that it doesn't make sense to ever wear a mask?

what period of time renders a mask inefficient?
Click to expand...
No, I wear masks everyday in ORs.

I feel that there are enough people doing it wrong that it is wrong to proclaim/promote mask wearing as a catch all solution.  Distance is the catch all solution.

I am trained that my mask rapidly loses efficacy beyond 30 minutes.  I can't imagine the homemade versions do better than the ones I grab before cases in the OR.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I thought the purpose of the mask is to prevent what you're exhaling from getting into the air.  If everyone is wearing a mask in a store, what's getting on my mask that I shouldn't touch?

 
We were told for many weeks that a mask only protected me if I was healthy and the sick person was wearing it.  Much of what I've seen seems to indicate that spreaders are symptomatic.  If I'm symptomatic I'm quarantining and not interacting with people at all till I test negative.  So why wear the mask.

The modified face jock strap my mother in law made me is doing no good, I'm convinced.  I wear it in public buildings because it apparently makes others more comfortable and I really do care enough to not make peoples' lives more difficult.  But I don't think it's doing one bit of good for me to wear it.

ETA: I DO believe in distancing.  Pretty much in agreement with Matuski.  It's the overwhelming group think that masks are the answer that is grating.  But again I go along to get along.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
matuski said:
I am not an anti masker... I am anti mask-as-dogma.  It should be distance, distance distance distance distance..... wash your hands and wear a mask when you cant distance.

Masks fall far behind distancing, and behind washing your hands imo.

Logical reasons being so many of us wear them wrong, don't wash them, touch our faces more when they are on.... AND questionable efficacy beyond short time frames.  A mask you have been breathing on for a while is wet, a wet mask is attracting and sticking stuff to your face.
Click to expand...
I think you overstate how "wet" the masks get. Surgeons and nurses can be in the same mask for hours at a time...trust me...they aren't soaking wet. 

Besides that, a wet mask would still block a lot of crap from spewing into the air. Unfortunately, it would also make it harder to breathe

 
facook said:
We were told for many weeks that a mask only protected me if I was healthy and the sick person was wearing it.  Much of what I've seen seems to indicate that spreaders are symptomatic.  If I'm symptomatic I'm quarantining and not interacting with people at all till I test negative.  So why wear the mask.

The modified face jock strap my mother in law made me is doing no good, I'm convinced.  I wear it in public buildings because it apparently makes others more comfortable and I really do care enough to not make peoples' lives more difficult.  But I don't think it's doing one bit of good for me to wear it.
Click to expand...
you don't believe that you're breathing in the air around you?

 
NutterButter said:
I thought the purpose of the mask is to prevent what you're exhaling from getting into the air.  If everyone is wearing a mask in a store, what's getting on my mask that I shouldn't touch?
Click to expand...
I saw at least a dozen people with masks pulled down from their noses or pulling the mask off entorely to talk ot just breathe.

So now you have whatever you were afraid of in the first place in the air.. and you are wearing a wet surface over your mouth and nose.

 
facook said:
We were told for many weeks that a mask only protected me if I was healthy and the sick person was wearing it.  Much of what I've seen seems to indicate that spreaders are symptomatic.  If I'm symptomatic I'm quarantining and not interacting with people at all till I test negative.  So why wear the mask.

The modified face jock strap my mother in law made me is doing no good, I'm convinced.  I wear it in public buildings because it apparently makes others more comfortable and I really do care enough to not make peoples' lives more difficult.  But I don't think it's doing one bit of good for me to wear it.
Click to expand...
Because we've now seen an undeniable link  between mask usage and COVID spread. It's the key commonality for all the places that have gotten this thing under control.

The truth is that the real world data suggests they work MUCH better at slowing the spread then anyone thought they could several months ago.

 
renesauz said:
Because we've now seen an undeniable link  between mask usage and COVID spread. It's the key commonality for all the places that have gotten this thing under control.

The truth is that the real world data suggests they work MUCH better at slowing the spread then anyone thought they could several months ago.
Click to expand...
Ok.

 
renesauz said:
I think you overstate how "wet" the masks get. Surgeons and nurses can be in the same mask for hours at a time...trust me...they aren't soaking wet. 

Besides that, a wet mask would still block a lot of crap from spewing into the air. Unfortunately, it would also make it harder to breathe
Click to expand...
I am not saying soaking.  I believe you are in the ORs?  You have to take the same training as I do I would imagine?

We can agree a damp surface attracts and retains more than a dry one?  Now add the guy/girl in the grocery store that has the same mask they have worn for the past 3 months and keep in their car cup holder.  Pulled down over their nose.. pulled down entirely to talk or take a breather.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
renesauz said:
Because we've now seen an undeniable link  between mask usage and COVID spread. It's the key commonality for all the places that have gotten this thing under control.

The truth is that the real world data suggests they work MUCH better at slowing the spread then anyone thought they could several months ago.
Click to expand...
Also - I don't want to come off as anti mask.  I am not.

Of course these internet debates devolve into that.

I am simply arguing that I think distancing should be the focus, as opposed to the media focus on masks.  If you keep proper distancing, you render masks largely irrelevant.

 
matuski said:
I saw at least a dozen people with masks pulled down from their noses or pulling the mask off entorely to talk ot just breathe.

So now you have whatever you were afraid of in the first place in the air.. and you are wearing a wet surface over your mouth and nose.
Click to expand...
i hardly ever see anyone in a store with their mask down but this is in NJ where we've really kicking this virus in the rear.   so you do agree though that if everyone is wearing their mask in a store, there really shouldn't be anything getting on your mask.   i'm seriously curious b/c that's what i thought the purpose they served but i have read about not touching without much of an explanation.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NutterButter said:
i hardly ever see anyone in a store with their mask down but this is in NJ where we've really kicking this virus in the rear.   so you do agree though that if everyone is wearing their mask in a story, there really shouldn't be anything getting on your mask.   i'm seriously curious b/c that's what i thought the purpose they served but i have read about not touching without much of an explanation.
Click to expand...
IF everyone is wearing a mask, and IF they are all wearing a clean mask, IF they are wearing it right... sure.  It has a benefit.

So wear the mask when you can't distance.  Maybe NJ is different, but in all honesty I have no problem keeping my distance most anywhere I go.  I'm too old for clubs and bars.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
matuski said:
I am not saying soaking.  I believe you are in the ORs?  You have to take the same training as I do I would imagine?

We can agree a damp surface attracts and retains more than a dry one?  Now add the guy/girl in the grocery store that has the same mask they have worn for the past 3 months and keep in their car cup holder.
Click to expand...
yuck...Im an ICU RN, usually use one mask for one day right now (except in COVID rooms where I have on my N100). yes...damp surfaces attract (or more accurately, capture) more garbage from the air. Re-using masks for long periods of time will mean more crap "captured" on that mask. It's worth encouraging folks to ditch the disposable ones after no more then a day, and wash the cloth ones after no more then one day useage

 
renesauz said:
yuck...Im an ICU RN, usually use one mask for one day right now (except in COVID rooms where I have on my N100). yes...damp surfaces attract (or more accurately, capture) more garbage from the air. Re-using masks for long periods of time will mean more crap "captured" on that mask. It's worth encouraging folks to ditch the disposable ones after no more then a day, and wash the cloth ones after no more then one day useage
Click to expand...
:lol:

In the OR we have to change masks between cases.. not just for cross contamination, but for the reasoning the mask is not effective after a case that has gone a couple few hours.

If you are taking it on/off (untying it)... I would guess that is fine.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
matuski said:
Also - I don't want to come off as anti mask.  I am not.

Of course these internet debates devolve into that.

I am simply arguing that I think distancing should be the focus, as opposed to the media focus on masks.  If you keep proper distancing, you render masks largely irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Absolutely agree, but wearing a mask is (or should be!) an easier behavior to modify. We are social creatures by nature, and tend to congregate unconsciously. It's not normal by any stretch to be in a room with other people and NOT move closer together. In many cases it's nearly impossible. So while I agree that distancing is the more effective tool, I disagree that we should preach it some orders of magnitude more then masking. Masking is almost always possible, easier to enforce, and is a new behavior instead of a modification of behavior (and thus easier to achieve)

 
matuski said:
IF everyone is wearing a mask, and IF they are all wearing a clean mask, IF they are wearing it right... sure.  It has a benefit.

So where the mask when you can't distance.  Maybe NJ is different, but in all honesty I have no problem keeping my distance most anywhere I go.  I'm too old for clubs and bars.
Click to expand...
Kinda hard to distance at costco or the super market or home depot.   Maybe you do the whole delivery thing or curbside.  

 
NutterButter said:
Kinda hard to distance at costco or the super market or home depot.   Maybe you do the whole delivery thing or curbside.  
Click to expand...
I think maybe we just have more space in Texas period.  I can go to any of these places for the most part without ever being next to another person.

Certainly, if that is the case.. where a mask.

But then wash your hands... taking the mask off just put all that on you hands.

 
matuski said:
:lol:

In the OR we have to change masks between cases.. not just for cross contamination, but for the reasoning the mask is not effective after a case that has gone a couple few hours.

If you are taking it on/off (untying it)... I would guess that is fine.
Click to expand...
To be fair, we also have far more frequent "small breaks" in our mask useage. I might pull it down for a bit when I'm at a computer in a corner away from anyone else for example, or eating in the break room, using the restroom, etc. Not quite the same as having it in place for quite literally a few hours straight.

And cross-contamination is a much bigger issue in the OR for obvious reasons. Hygiene is paramount in any OR, as it should be...be lets be careful trying to extrapolate the (necessary) levels of fastidious in an OR to the real world.

ETA: IN a 12 hour shift it's in place for about 6-8 hours....with a LOT of hand washing/sanitizing after/between every patient

 
Last edited by a moderator:
renesauz said:
To be fair, we also have far more frequent "small breaks" in our mask useage. I might pull it down for a bit when I'm at a computer in a corner away from anyone else for example, or eating in the break room, using the restroom, etc. Not quite the same as having it in place for quite literally a few hours straight.

And cross-contamination is a much bigger issue in the OR for obvious reasons. Hygiene is paramount in any OR, as it should be...be lets be careful trying to extrapolate the (necessary) levels of fastidious in an OR to the real world
Click to expand...
True and fair.

I am not anti-mask... I just cringe at the mask shaming while not distance shaming.

 
matuski said:
I think maybe we just have more space in Texas period.  I can go to any of these places for the most part without ever being next to another person.

Certainly, if that is the case.. where a mask.

But then wash your hands... taking the mask off just put all that on you hands.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I do think so much of this is nuanced by location. I'm in a small town, and have no issue keeping distant for the most part.  I do realize a large metro area is much different than where I live.

 
matuski said:
I think maybe we just have more space in Texas period.  I can go to any of these places for the most part without ever being next to another person.

Certainly, if that is the case.. where a mask.

But then wash your hands... taking the mask off just put all that on you hands.
Click to expand...
I'm certainly suspicious about your space claims in your costco meat department but I'll just have to take your word for it.   

 
NutterButter said:
I'm certainly suspicious about your space claims in your costco meat department but I'll just have to take your word for it.   
Click to expand...
Haha.  Come on down, I'll buy you some tri-tips after we peruse the entire market at our lonely leisure.

We may have to dodge the other person daring to do so at the same time.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ilov80s said:
Same. When I am walking around, I don't need a mask. I don't live in a crowded city and if people are coming on the sidewalk, there is an unwritten rule that the parties separate either by crossing street, walking on the grass, etc. 
Click to expand...


Brony said:
If I'm not going to be in proximity of another human for longer than 3 seconds, then I don't wear a mask.  (eg. biking on a barely used bike path or walking around the neighborhood).   If I'm going to be indoors where there are people, I wear a mask. 
Click to expand...


NutterButter said:
Same here.  If I'm clearly social distancing, no mask.   
Click to expand...
All these.

I don't wear one at the pool or running or walking on the greenway. But I do my best to stay away from others. 

mr. furley said:
appreciate the honesty

do you think that in instances where distance cannot be effectively maintained wearing a mask is burdensome?

do you feel that "wearing wrong", "not washed", "people touching faces" is so prevalent that it doesn't make sense to ever wear a mask?

what period of time renders a mask inefficient?
Click to expand...
We've discussed this with my daughter's nurses and my SIL who is a nurse. A few of their opinions are stronger than mine. Collectively their opinions are varying degrees of "wearing a mask wrong is as bad as not wearing it at all, and nobody is wearing it right. People think they're doing the right thing by wearing one but the best thing to do is social distance. On the scale of great to ####ty, properly maintaining social distance and properly washing your hands and not touching your face is a 10, wearing a mask in a crowd is a 3, no mask is a 1".

My wife had to actually use sanitary masks and gloves when changing our daughter's port (line into her blood stream after bone marrow transplant), it took her a week of working with a nurse to get it right, the medical professionals have a class they take to do it. Nobody is getting it right. 

But, I'll be a 3 at the grocery and hardware store and avoid crowds.

 
moleculo said:
I prefer distancing too.  That's not always an option.  Further, many people out there don't respect personal space.
Click to expand...
Also it isn't just distancing.  There is a second important variable - time.

Distance + time. 

Walking past someone?  Prob not an issue with or without mask. Shoulder to shoulder for a couple hours at a church/bar/protest?  An issue with or without a mask.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Ministry of Pain
Florida has watched 24 States pass recreational marijuana laws, what the heck are we waiting for?
2
Replies
59
Views
1K
Todem
Todem
GordonGekko
What Are Harsh Truths About Real Life That You Would Prefer To Just Ignore ? (8/30)
Replies
5
Views
436
bigbottom
bigbottom
krista4
Where in the world are the middle-aged dummies? Worldwide top 31 song countdown.
115 116 117
Replies
6K
Views
139K
Pip's Invitation
Pip's Invitation

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top