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***Official Protest-RIOT Thread*** Police Officers fleeing Seattle and urban areas. (1 Viewer)

What's the o/u on number of months until this trial is done?  Any odds on a civil trial afterwards?  

 
[icon] said:
Lin took Rittenhouse's case Pro Bono. 
 

Gllll Peas Kinosha's DA Office. 
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IDK, in that case with the MAGA hat kid the totality of the footage painted a picture more favorable for his client.  I'm not so sure that's the case here, especially with all the other laws we know he wasn't in compliance with.  

But I think people backing this kid are crossing a line from 2A enthusiast constitution defender to gun nut territory.  On what planet would this boy be part of any "well regulated militia"?  

 
parasaurolophus said:
I don't see how he escapes the open carry and crossing state lines with an illegal firearm issues but I also don't see any jury in Wisconsin ever convicting him of murder. 
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Thats kind of how I see it too.

He definitely has some risk on the 1st degree homicide charges, and the reckless homicide charges - but enough wiggle room that the DA won't be thinking its a lock.

And, since the possession charge is a slam dunk, I am assuming they will work a plea deal - where he gets maybe 10 years?  

It will be one of those deals where nobody is really happy with the outcome.

 
beef said:
Pardon my lack of law knowledge.  Is that because of all the charges, and how they can go from different levels of degrees, felonies, misdemeanors?
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Its based on the notion that he was definitely in possession of a weapon as a minor.

He is guilty of the other charges laid out in the complaint - in that he did those actions, with the resulting harm.  But, I think a good lawyer can turn this into a referendum where he was just a confused kid who feared for his life, and acted accordingly. 

In a jury trial - that could go either way, and I don't think either side want to risk "losing" at trial.  So they start the negotiations with the known guilty aspect - possession of the weapon, and haggle over the rest.  Two people died, and its a well-publicized event - so it can't be swept under the rug.  And, whatever future this kid had, its now going to look a whole lot different.

 
Looks like the "peaceful" protests in Raleigh include breaking curfew, spray painting buildings, breaking glass, throwing things at the media and shooting firecrackers at the police.  

 
Looks like he didn't cross lines with an illegal firearm.

His attorney tweeted that the firearm was borrowed from a friend in Wisconsin and never left the state (not that it matters). 
 

Truth will gradually come out. Guessing there is Lots more coming on both sides. 

 
cockroach said:
IDK man, I get that's the spin.  But eventually people are going to ask, "what are you going to do to stop this?".  I know he pretty much got into power by pointing his finger, but he's in the driver's seat now, either steer us in the proper fing direction or get you butt up out of the seat and let a new Capt set course.  
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He called WI Governor Tpny Evers and offered federal troops. Evers turned him down. The next night you had more riots and the shooting of protestors. Had Evers taken up Trump on his offer it's likely the shooting may have been prevented.

 
Workhorse said:
Here's the complaint: https://www.mystateline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2020/08/Rittenhouse.pdf

Ran it by a few lawyer friends and they all agreed that at the very least, Rittenhouse is going to have a VERY tough time winning a self-defense argument on his killing Rosenbaum (the first person shot.) You have video, an eyewitness and a victim with at least one gunshot wound in the back who was unarmed and never laid a hand on the shooter.
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This was the first I heard about the eyewitness account.  Obviously I'm no expert on WI criminal law, but the eyewitness testimony sounds extremely favorable for Rittenhouse, or at least as favorable as could reasonably be expected.

 
cockroach said:
But I think people backing this kid are crossing a line from 2A enthusiast constitution defender to gun nut territory.  On what planet would this boy be part of any "well regulated militia"?  
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It's probably also worth reflecting on the fact that Rittenhouse apparently wanted to be a cop and could have been the proud owner of qualified immunity if he had just waited another year or two.  No sane person should want a 17 year old LARPer patrolling the streets with a rifle, but you have to wonder how many people like that are currently wearing uniforms.

 
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parasaurolophus said:
I don't see how he escapes the open carry and crossing state lines with an illegal firearm issues but I also don't see any jury in Wisconsin ever convicting him of murder. 
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He didn't cross state lines with the firearm.

It's not explicitly illegal to cross state lines with a firearm. 

The rifle in question is not an illegal firearm. 
 

PLEASE understand laws before you debate them. 

 
Workhorse said:
Here's the complaint: https://www.mystateline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2020/08/Rittenhouse.pdf

Ran it by a few lawyer friends and they all agreed that at the very least, Rittenhouse is going to have a VERY tough time winning a self-defense argument on his killing Rosenbaum (the first person shot.) You have video, an eyewitness and a victim with at least one gunshot wound in the back who was unarmed and never laid a hand on the shooter.
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Depending on surrounding circumstances, attempting to rip a firearm out of the hands of someone in the process of an attack can indeed better a self-defense case. 
 

I presume the following will be used against Rosenbaum by Lin and company: 

1) Rosenbaum's violent past including child rape and 42 violations while incarcerated. 

2) Rosenbaum's violent/agitated state screaming at the "militia", and having to be held back repeatedly. 

3) Rosenbaum stalking Rittenhouse, forcing Rittenhouse to flee. Rosenbaum chasing after a fleeing Rittenhouse. 

4) Rittenhouse was not seen making threats prior to shooting. Rosenbaum without a doubt would not have been shot had he not been stalking / chasing a retreating Rittenhouse. 

Also, Firearms being discharged in the vicinity while Rosenbaum was charging Rittenhouse could have increased odds the defendant perceived Rosenbaum as a threat. 
 

Not making claims on how the case will turn out, merely outlining areas I could see the Defense team using to paint Rosenbaum as a threat that Rittenhouse was defending himself against. 
 

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Federal troops in the USA. Listen to yourself.
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I agree with you in the idea that I'd rather have the states handle this themselves.  I'm no fan of the federal government having to intervene.  In this particular case we have a couple people who were killed the night before, regardless of who is to blame in the Rittenhouse incident.  I think because he refused the federal help to start with, it's on the governor to make sure his state is secure.  Obviously a couple dead bodies changed his mind.  Whether he truly lacked the resources to stop it or merely didn't call up enough guardsmen to do the job I don't know.  

 
[icon] said:
He didn't cross state lines with the firearm.

It's not explicitly illegal to cross state lines with a firearm. 

The rifle in question is not an illegal firearm. 
 

PLEASE understand laws before you debate them. 
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Police in Antioch took possession of two weapons. I just assumed one of them was the gun in question. Is that not the case?

I didn't know that it wasn't illegal to illegally be in possession of a firearm and cross state lines(federally). In looking at this I see it is just a carve out for overruling state/local to allow transport legally, but that there is no penalty on a federal level for doing the opposite, at least not specific to age. 

My apologies.

 
Anyone have a link to the video showing someone off to the left firing a gun just before the first guy was killed?

 
Just to be clear (and so the usual suspects don't get to say "why doesn't the left...") -- no one should bring guns to protests and shoot other people. I hope the guy who killed the Patriot Prayer person is found and prosecuted, same as Kenosha Kyle.

 
[icon] said:
He didn't cross state lines with the firearm.

It's not explicitly illegal to cross state lines with a firearm. 

The rifle in question is not an illegal firearm. 
 

PLEASE understand laws before you debate them. 
Click to expand...
Is it legal for a 17 yr old to be in unsupervised posession of a firearm?

Is it legal to bring a firearm to a protest?

Is it legal to "loan" a firearm?

 
moleculo said:
Is it legal for a 17 yr old to be in unsupervised posession of a firearm?

Is it legal to bring a firearm to a protest?

Is it legal to "loan" a firearm?
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Just Googled the first question:

Wisconsin generally prohibits the intentional transfer of any firearm to an individual under age 18.1

The state also generally prohibits the possession of a firearm by any person under age 18.2

These restrictions do not apply, however, when the firearm is being used by a person under age 18 when supervised by an adult during target practice or a course of instruction.3

I dont think any reasonable argument could be made that Rittenhouse was under adult supervision, much less during instruction or target practice.

_______________

The weapon itself may not be illegal, but Rittenhouse's posession of it was.

 
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Coach Morris Buttermaker said:
It looks like a pro-Trump guy was murdered by someone with a BLM tattoo in Portland last night. Cold blooded murder. 

“We got one right here...American flag!” *Gun shots*

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1300100292558516226?s=20
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Preface: the shooter deserves to be charged and punished, zero doubt.

I don't hear anyone say "American flag" -- I think I hear someone yell "Hey, hey, we got a couple right here! Right here!" before the shots ring out.

The video from across the street that shows the actual shooting (one video down in that link) shows what appears to be two men walking against traffic in the street and toward the camera. The man who was killed appears to be coming from behind them at a close distance at about the time you can hear the words yelled. The two men in the street move closer to the sidewalk and appear to turn around toward the man who was killed (unclear if something was said, we don't hear it if it was). The Patriot Prayer guy then pepper sprays the closer of the two men in the street and almost immediately the 2nd street guy shoots the pepper sprayer and they run away.

 
First CNN’s Fredo and Don Lemon, now Morning Joe. This is how you know the Democrats are getting creamed on this.

Joe Scarbrough@JoeNBC

Portland’s mayor and Oregon’s governor have been deplorable in the ongoing crisis gripping the city. The chaos continues nightly. If they can’t control their streets and keep their citizens safe from agitators and anarchists, then call in the National Guard. This has to stop now.

https://twitter.com/joenbc/status/1300057160173400066?s=21

 
mcintyre1 said:
Coach Morris Buttermaker said:
It looks like a pro-Trump guy was murdered by someone with a BLM tattoo in Portland last night. Cold blooded murder. 

“We got one right here...American flag!” *Gun shots*

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1300100292558516226?s=20
Click to expand...
Preface: the shooter deserves to be charged and punished, zero doubt.

I don't hear anyone say "American flag" -- I think I hear someone yell "Hey, hey, we got a couple right here! Right here!" before the shots ring out.

The video from across the street that shows the actual shooting (one video down in that link) shows what appears to be two men walking against traffic in the street and toward the camera. The man who was killed appears to be coming from behind them at a close distance at about the time you can hear the words yelled. The two men in the street move closer to the sidewalk and appear to turn around toward the man who was killed (unclear if something was said, we don't hear it if it was). The Patriot Prayer guy then pepper sprays the closer of the two men in the street and almost immediately the 2nd street guy shoots the pepper sprayer and they run away.
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Watched the first video where you can hear the words a few more times and I noticed a few more things:

I think these are the words that are spoken at the start of the video: "Hey, hey, we got one right here! We got a couple right here! -- Here? -- Right here? -- Pull it out" before the sound of the mace spraying and shots.

It also, to me, sounds like the person in the above quote: "We got a couple right here!" is also the man in the white shirt who goes to the side of the man who was killed. This is definitely speculation, but the voice sounds very similar to me when he later yells "Get the **** out of here!" and pushes the BLM medic off of his friend.

The man in the white shirt can also be seen dropping a can of mace on the ground when he kneels next to the victim.

You can also hear that the victim's name is Jay, based on what the man in white says. There's some speculation on Twitter of it being a particular Jay that's pretty well known and associated with Patriot Prayer. Let's just say that if it is, there's some pretty vile video of the guy defending the Portland MAX Patriot Prayer stabber who killed two men that confronted him for threatening two muslim women on the train back in 2017.

 
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The recent deaths and increasing levels of confrontation was sadly predictable.  The streets have to be cleaned up or this is going to truly spiral into something far worse than it has been so far.

 
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