What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

NY State Sues to dissolve the NRA (1 Viewer)

Sand

Sand

Footballguy
https://news.trust.org/item/20200806144855-coo0a

Interesting news bit, particularly since they are going after the org itself rather than arresting and charging the bad actors here.  I've never heard of a request of the courts to dissolve an organization simply for "financial mismanagement" and not allege significant criminal conduct.  This appears to have a significant political motive, for sure.

I searched for a bit and failed to find where the state of NY has sued to dissolve the Teamsters, Laborer's Union, Longshoremen, etc.  These were completely owned and run by the mob for decades.  Quite the contrast.

 
Sand said:
https://news.trust.org/item/20200806144855-coo0a

Interesting news bit, particularly since they are going after the org itself rather than arresting and charging the bad actors here.  I've never heard of a request of the courts to dissolve an organization simply for "financial mismanagement" and not allege significant criminal conduct.  This appears to have a significant political motive, for sure.

I searched for a bit and failed to find where the state of NY has sued to dissolve the Teamsters, Laborer's Union, Longshoremen, etc.  These were completely owned and run by the mob for decades.  Quite the contrast.
Click to expand...
The difference is who is donating to who.

 
urbanhack said:
They are a non profit who allegedly broke the law. Do you disagree?
Click to expand...
There probably was money diverted for "business purposes" in Bora Bora, the Bahamas, etc., though that has to be proven.  The fact that the bad actors haven't been criminally charged makes this whole thing dubious on its face.  Hell, I could easily bankrupt a place through massive sheer incompetence and not break laws :boxing:  - just being a poor financial steward isn't cause to dissolve an org, and right now it appears that's what NY is saying.

The idea of dissolving this organization instead of excising criminality is disturbing.  If we do this shouldn't we go back and dissolve, say, HSBC for laundering billions for the drug cartels?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Due process of course. If allegations are true then it's gonna be time for some   Lock them up! action.

 
Sand said:
There probably was money diverted for "business purposes" in Bora Bora, the Bahamas, etc., though that has to be proven.  The fact that the bad actors haven't been criminally charged makes this whole thing dubious on it's face.  Hell, I could easily bankrupt a place through massive sheer incompetence and not break laws :boxing:  - just being a poor financial steward isn't cause to dissolve an org, and right now it appears that's what NY is saying.

The idea of dissolving this organization instead of excising criminality is disturbing.  If we do this shouldn't we go back and dissolve, say, HSBC for laundering billions for the drug cartels?
Click to expand...
Isn't that different for non-profits though? I think there are multiple occasions of non-profits being dissolved if they are not following the rules that allow them to exist as a non-profit.

 
TheMagus said:
Isn't that different for non-profits though? I think there are multiple occasions of non-profits being dissolved if they are not following the rules that allow them to exist as a non-profit.
Click to expand...
I have heard of removal of non-profit status, but not a dissolution.  This is more akin to using RICO to break up the mob (good doc on Netfix about this, BTW).

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sand said:
https://news.trust.org/item/20200806144855-coo0a

Interesting news bit, particularly since they are going after the org itself rather than arresting and charging the bad actors here.  I've never heard of a request of the courts to dissolve an organization simply for "financial mismanagement" and not allege significant criminal conduct.  This appears to have a significant political motive, for sure.

I searched for a bit and failed to find where the state of NY has sued to dissolve the Teamsters, Laborer's Union, Longshoremen, etc.  These were completely owned and run by the mob for decades.  Quite the contrast.
Click to expand...
Are those other organizations NY entities or were they formed elsewhere?

 
This seems like a really weird hill to die on.  The NRA seems to have been self-destructing for years, with internal skirmishes over leadership, and allegations of mis-use of funds.

The 2nd Amendment does not live or die with the success of The NRA.  As an entity - the NRA probably needs to be shut down, and a new version will rise in its place.  :shrug:

 
The Gator said:
The 2nd Amendment does not live or die with the success of The NRA.  As an entity - the NRA probably needs to be shut down, and a new version will rise in its place.  :shrug:
Click to expand...
Honestly I’d want the NRA to go away and be replaced if I were a gun guy. They’ve strayed so far from their stated goals (gun safety, education) and have become a slush fund for execs and pet projects. Your membership is funding nothing other than a bumper sticker for your car (though that can be said about quite a few non profits sadly).

 
Sand said:
I have heard of removal of non-profit status, but not a dissolution.  This is more akin to using RICO to break up the mob (good doc on Netfix about this, BTW).
Click to expand...
To answer the question of why corrupt labor unions aren’t dissolved, most of these dissolution statutes distinguish between “public benefit organizations” like the NRA or Greenpeace, and “member benefit organizations” like the Teamsters. The grounds for an AG to seek to dissolve the former is generally broader than those for dissolving the second.   Mainly because there are civil procedures through which members of member benefit organization can seek dissolution. 

 
Just to tie in all our pandemic obsessions, it looks like Indiana sued to dissolve a charity run by Tim Stark, who was one of those awful dudes running wildlife parks on Tiger King. 
 

Florida sued to dissolve the Florida Coalition for the Prevention of Domestic Violence. 

 
None of which is to argue that there isn’t a political motivation here, because there certainly could be. 
 

It does seem odd to seek dissolution of an organization that can still pay its creditors and that hasn’t  abandoned ios mission as stated in its Articles of Incorporation. certainly seems like a reorganization short of dissolution would be possible (and that is what I predict will happen under a settlement).
 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
The Trump Foundation. Which obviously isn’t going to convince anyone the law is being applied apolitically. 
Click to expand...
I saw they dissolved but did the AG do it in the same manner as this one?  I did not read about it but it seems they did it on their own..is that the case?  Unfortunately you are correct though, that really is not a great example of this law not being used for political purposes.

 
Sand said:
If this was Planned Parenthood there is no chance the state of NY would be doing this.  I don't think anyone here will think that a radical statement.

Liberal privilege.
Click to expand...
The only real question here for me is why they aren't going after the individuals.  To your point, if this sort of illegal activity were alleged against Planned Parenthood, the focus would most likely be the individuals involved, not the organization itself.  I don't know how that fits into the "liberal privilege" phrasing you present here, but it's worth noting.  It's unclear to me if this was just a couple bad actors or the entire leadership on multiple levels.  Perhaps the reason they are going after the org entirely speaks to the number of actors throughout the entire organization?  I can easily see Planned Parenthood being gone after if it was found there was complete corruption throughout leadership.    

 
  • Smile
Reactions: rct
Boston said:
I saw they dissolved but did the AG do it in the same manner as this one?  I did not read about it but it seems they did it on their own..is that the case?  Unfortunately you are correct though, that really is not a great example of this law not being used for political purposes.
Click to expand...
From what I remember, it was basically a "hey, you shut it down or we'll shut it down for you" kind of thing.  I could be wrong...hard to keep track of all the different issues raised in the last 3.5 years.

 
Boston said:
I saw they dissolved but did the AG do it in the same manner as this one?  I did not read about it but it seems they did it on their own..is that the case?  Unfortunately you are correct though, that really is not a great example of this law not being used for political purposes.
Click to expand...
I think the Trump Foundation is a  pretty classic example of when involuntary dissolution is appropriate.  You can't get John Kerry to come in and run the Trump Foundation.  Whoever runs it is going to be affiliated with the Trump family and probably controlled by Donald Trump.  And if Donald Trump has been using the charity to personally benefit (and I don't think I've read anyone who argues that he wasn't) then you really only have the option to protect the creditors and let the excess be distributed as the Articles of Incorporation provide.  That's kind of the classic involuntary dissolution scenario.  

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I think the Trump Foundation is a  pretty classic example of when involuntary dissolution is appropriate.  You can't get John Kerry to come in and run the Trump Foundation.  Whoever runs it is going to be affiliated with the Trump family and probably controlled by Donald Trump.  And if Donald Trump has been using the charity to personally benefit (and I don't think I've read anyone who argues that he wasn't) then you really only have the option to protect the creditors and let the excess be distributed as the Articles of Incorporation provide.  That's kind of the classic involuntary dissolution scenario.  
Click to expand...
Did the AG try to dissolve it from the beginning like what appears to be going on with the NRA?

 
If Congress can defacto dissolve ACORN on the basis of a doctored video by James O'Keefe, I think I'm good with the NRA going down if a judge so orders it as part of a legal process.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sand said:
There probably was money diverted for "business purposes" in Bora Bora, the Bahamas, etc., though that has to be proven.  The fact that the bad actors haven't been criminally charged makes this whole thing dubious on its face.  Hell, I could easily bankrupt a place through massive sheer incompetence and not break laws :boxing:  - just being a poor financial steward isn't cause to dissolve an org, and right now it appears that's what NY is saying.

The idea of dissolving this organization instead of excising criminality is disturbing.  If we do this shouldn't we go back and dissolve, say, HSBC for laundering billions for the drug cartels?
Click to expand...
If NY can sue to dissolve the NRA of financial mismanagement, can't someone sue to dissolve NY for financial mismanagement?  :)

I'm guessing if someone looks into the books of the City and/or state of NY they will find the type of corruption on a scale that makes the NRA (if true) look like choir boys.

This lawsuit isn't going anywhere.  It's clear that this is a political ploy to try and take out one of the biggest conservative lobbying groups.  In reality, they are dwarfed by the big labor unions, soros and numerous other Democrat lobbying groups.

 
I'd be thrilled to see the NRA go away but I really hope this doesn't turn into a rallying cry that drives people to Trump in November.

 
BladeRunner said:
If NY can sue to dissolve the NRA of financial mismanagement, can't someone sue to dissolve NY for financial mismanagement?  :)

I'm guessing if someone looks into the books of the City and/or state of NY they will find the type of corruption on a scale that makes the NRA (if true) look like choir boys.

This lawsuit isn't going anywhere.  It's clear that this is a political ploy to try and take out one of the biggest conservative lobbying groups.  In reality, they are dwarfed by the big labor unions, soros and numerous other Democrat lobbying groups.
Click to expand...
The NRA has been misspending for years. They have a number of different NRA affiliated charities that funnel money to them, which they funnel to their pac, which spent $30 million in 2016 to elect trump. There is also the whole Torshin/Butina NRA connection and questionable financial ties to russian oligarchs that Republicans refused to investigate. All these issues and infighting between North and LaPierre has been reported over the last few years. Why does this have to be “a political ploy?” Isn’t there are least a chance that it could be a credible investigation and that they have misspent? 

 
But wait! There's more!

AG Racine Sues NRA Foundation for Diverting Charitable Funds to Support Wasteful Spending by NRA and Its Executives

August 6, 2020

Foundation Allowed NRA to Raid Its Coffers Through Multi-Million-Dollar Loans and Unjustified Fees

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Attorney General Karl A. Racine today filed a lawsuit against the NRA Foundation and the National Rifle Association (NRA) for misusing charitable funds to support wasteful spending by the NRA and its executives. In its lawsuit, the Office of the Attorney General (OAG) alleges that the NRA Foundation violated District laws by allowing charitable funds to be used for noncharitable purposes, failing to operate independently, and placing the NRA’s interests ahead of its own charitable purposes. OAG also alleges that the Foundation’s Board of Directors was controlled by the NRA and allowed the NRA to exploit it through risky multi-million-dollar loans—including a $5 million loan that the NRA has never repaid. Additionally, the Foundation agreed to pay the NRA millions of dollars in fees without documentation of the work the NRA was performing or how it supported the Foundation’s charitable purposes. With this lawsuit, OAG is seeking to return the charitable funds improperly wasted on the NRA to the Foundation and a court order imposing changes to the Foundation to ensure it is operated independently and fulfills its charitable purposes.

...

 
Boston said:
More detail please...were these accusations happening in New York?
Click to expand...
The NRA, as a legal entity, is a creation of New York State, which retains jurisdiction over matters relating to the control and management of the corporation.

For other purposes, the state of the corporation’s principal place of business would have jurisdiction, but only New York has jurisdiction to dissolve or determine the composition of the management of a New York corporation.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top