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Why I won’t be voting for President Trump (1 Viewer)

lazyike

Footballguy
Trying to be respectful of TripItUp’s post I opted to start another thread as to why I won’t be voting to re-elect President Trump. I will be the first to admit this is more about voting against a candidate rather than voting for Biden. I do appreciate the debate that occurred in that thread. 
 

1. Character  flaws. Pathological lying,  narcissism, bullying, rudeness. ( Biden wins here big time)

2. Constitutional crisis. Ignoring Congressional oversight, ignoring subpoenas, firing inspector generals, failure to understand his own powers in regards to executive orders.  Sure it’s typical for any President to fight subpoenas to a certain extent but this is ridiculous ( Biden win here)

3. Foreign interference in election. The President admitted to George Stephanopoulos that he would be willing to accept  for foreign help in an election and is on record asking both Russia and China to attack his opponent and well there was this Ukraine deal. When a country or leader aids ones election he becomes beholden to them. It’s wrong...nuff said ( Another Biden plus here)

4. Incompetence. He simply is overwhelmed by the duties the office expects and requires which is obviously clear in regards to this pandemic. I also haven’t figured out if he is so stupid that  he thinks China pays the tariffs  on products they export to us or whether he is just lying....neither answer is any way flattering. I also do not believe President Trump spends much if any time reading the important daily briefings  ( there are those that question Biden’s cognitive abilities, personally I think he may not be all that quick on his feet I think he still reasons things just fine. He will put competent people In his administration and more importantly listen to them)
 

5. Foreign Affairs. We have lost so much respect across the globe from so many of our traditional allies. I understand the need for expecting our allies to do more financially and in terms of policing their fair share but to have leaders like Merkel say they don’t want to be is the same room as President Trump shows you exactly what many think of our leader. I have listened to Canadian Broadcasting Corporation talk radio and they literally feel sorry for Americans that are under Trump’s rule. Canada, Australia, France all have issues with Trump and do not respect him. And what is worse he cozies up to dictators thinking he can flatter them because of his charm. The Saudi Prince, Putin The result is leaders like Kim Jong Un play him like a fiddle.(another one in Biden’s column...he is known and respected across the globe)

6. Unkept Campaign Promises. I hear so much of “ I like what he has done”. I can’t get over the key campaign promises he did not fulfill “ going to build a wall and Mexico is going to pay for it” , “going to repeal and replace Obamacare with something much better”, “give me 8 years and I will eliminate our national debt“ , “ annual 4% GDP growth.( not even 1 quarter of 4% growth). I could go on but you get the picture

7 Trade. We really haven’t accomplished much of anything with China and now are battling with Canada. One thing we have learned...trade wars are definitely not easy to win. And we in agriculture became Trump’s pawns who suffered the loss in trade with China only partially reimbursed with subsidies. 
 

8. Disrespect for Veterans and other politicians. John McCain tortured in Vietnam as a prisoner of war, offered an opportunity to go home when they found out who his famous father was refused to go home when he asked he would go home only if the other prisoners could go with him. When they said no he stayed for more torture. And what does our President say “I like people who weren’t captured” or “ I have never been a fan” 2 other Purple Heart recipients   Lt Col Vindman,  Robert Mueller’s also disrespected. John Lewis. No more needs to be said

9. Using the office to get favors. Wanting to host the G7 conference at Mar-a-Lago. Asking your UK  ambassador to try to get the British Open at your golf course. And as he visits Mar-a-Lago charging big time money for the secret service to use golf carts and room rent. Dignitaries staying at Trump Hotels, Spare me the details about donating his salary.

10. Cabinet Turnover. Only the best people what a joke. One of the few good people he had was General Mattis and he resigned. You can be a part of his administration if you are a an admirer and a yes man or woman. There are really  some awful inept, incompetent people in this administration. ( I really do trust Biden to hire competent intelligent people)

 
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Beyond the character and where i think he is morally, ethically and mentally unfit for the job....

His positions in trade are against what I have believed in and I believe (and what is traditionally conservative) he has even gone about his own positions in ways that have hurt America.

His push to muddle legal and illegal immigration so much and work to limit even legal immigration.

His praise of dictators and those who don’t have the best interest of us or our allies in mind at the detriment often of our allies and IMO our country.

His pushing the limits of constitutional authority and the lack or repercussions because of a complicit majority in the senate.

The use of the office for personal gain.

Nepotism as well as the rewarding of loyalty over experience and competence in key positions.
 

The disrespect for veterans and generals and lifelong public servants.

The disrespect for science.

The disrespect for actual law and order.

His faux use of religion to pander while he bashes others who appear to be those of more devoted faith.

His filling of the swamp he stated he would drain.

And there are many more reasons.  Most of them also reasons I cannot and will not support any he endorses or the party that continues to cover for him and enable him in many of these things.

 
Beyond the character and where i think he is morally, ethically and mentally unfit for the job....

His positions in trade are against what I have believed in and I believe (and what is traditionally conservative) he has even gone about his own positions in ways that have hurt America.

His push to muddle legal and illegal immigration so much and work to limit even legal immigration.

His praise of dictators and those who don’t have the best interest of us or our allies in mind at the detriment often of our allies and IMO our country.

His pushing the limits of constitutional authority and the lack or repercussions because of a complicit majority in the senate.

The use of the office for personal gain.

Nepotism as well as the rewarding of loyalty over experience and competence in key positions.
 

The disrespect for veterans and generals and lifelong public servants.

The disrespect for science.

The disrespect for actual law and order.

His faux use of religion to pander while he bashes others who appear to be those of more devoted faith.

His filling of the swamp he stated he would drain.

And there are many more reasons.  Most of them also reasons I cannot and will not support any he endorses or the party that continues to cover for him and enable him in many of these things.
Yes with a little more thought I could find 10 more reasons not to vote for him. To be honest I didn’t have issues with a small amount of deregulation but this is ridiculous. And are we about the only nation that opted out of the Paris Climate Accords?

 
All conservatives care about is abortion, 2A, and the Supreme Court. And owning the libs, I guess. They don’t care about the rich getting richer or how much the middle class and poor get screwed. That’s what’s been proven to me over the past 3 plus years. What did Trump run on in 2016? Lock up Hillary? Didn’t happen. Build a wall that Mexico would pay for? Nope. Repeal and replace Obamacare with something better? Well, we’re waiting Mr. President. I mean, he’s still tweeting Make America Great Again six times an hour for Christ sakes. Has he not had enough time? I don’t think real conservatives like him. Not even a little bit. But he’s “better” than the alternative. It’s tribalism now, not politics. Left vs. right. Doesn’t matter who the candidate is. 

 
lazyike said:
Trying to be respectful of TripItUp’s post I opted to start another thread as to why I won’t be voting to re-elect President Trump. I will be the first to admit this is more about voting against a candidate rather than voting for Biden. I do appreciate the debate that occurred in that thread. 
 

1. Character  flaws. Pathological lying,  narcissism, bullying, rudeness. ( Biden wins here big time)

2. Constitutional crisis. Ignoring Congressional oversight, ignoring subpoenas, firing inspector generals, failure to understand his own powers in regards to executive orders.  Sure it’s typical for any President to fight subpoenas to a certain extent but this is ridiculous ( Biden win here)

3. Foreign interference in election. The President admitted to George Stephanopoulos that he would be willing to accept  for foreign help in an election and is on record asking both Russia and China to attack his opponent and well there was this Ukraine deal. When a country or leader aids ones election he becomes beholden to them. It’s wrong...nuff said ( Another Biden plus here)

4. Incompetence. He simply is overwhelmed by the duties the office expects and requires which is obviously clear in regards to this pandemic. I also haven’t figured out if he is so stupid that  he thinks China pays the tariffs  on products they export to us or whether he is just lying....neither answer is any way flattering. I also do not believe President Trump spends much if any time reading the important daily briefings  ( there are those that question Biden’s cognitive abilities, personally I think he may not be all that quick on his feet I think he still reasons things just fine. He will put competent people In his administration and more importantly listen to them)
 

5. Foreign Affairs. We have lost so much respect across the globe from so many of our traditional allies. I understand the need for expecting our allies to do more financially and in terms of policing their fair share but to have leaders like Merkel say they don’t want to be is the same room as President Trump shows you exactly what many think of our leader. I have listened to Canadian Broadcasting Corporation talk radio and they literally feel sorry for Americans that are under Trump’s rule. Canada, Australia, France all have issues with Trump and do not respect him. And what is worse he cozies up to dictators thinking he can flatter them because of his charm. The Saudi Prince, Putin The result is leaders like Kim Jong Un play him like a fiddle.(another one in Biden’s column...he is known and respected across the globe)

6. Unkept Campaign Promises. I hear so much of “ I like what he has done”. I can’t get over the key campaign promises he did not fulfill “ going to build a wall and Mexico is going to pay for it” , “going to repeal and replace Obamacare with something much better”, “give me 8 years and I will eliminate our national debt“ , “ annual 4% GDP growth.( not even 1 quarter of 4% growth). I could go on but you get the picture

7 Trade. We really haven’t accomplished much of anything with China and now are battling with Canada. One thing we have learned...trade wars are definitely not easy to win. And we in agriculture became Trump’s pawns who suffered the loss in trade with China only partially reimbursed with subsidies. 
 

8. Disrespect for Veterans and other politicians. John McCain tortured in Vietnam as a prisoner of war, offered an opportunity to go home when they found out who his famous father was refused to go home when he asked he would go home only if the other prisoners could go with him. When they said no he stayed for more torture. And what does our President say “I like people who weren’t captured” or “ I have never been a fan” 2 other Purple Heart recipients   Lt Col Vindman,  Robert Mueller’s also disrespected. John Lewis. No more needs to be said

9. Using the office to get favors. Wanting to host the G7 conference at Mar-a-Lago. Asking your UK  ambassador to try to get the British Open at your golf course. And as he visits Mar-a-Lago charging big time money for the secret service to use golf carts and room rent. Dignitaries staying at Trump Hotels, Spare me the details about donating his salary.

10. Cabinet Turnover. Only the best people what a joke. One of the few good people he had was General Mattis and he resigned. You can be a part of his administration if you are a an admirer and a yes man or woman. There are really  some awful inept, incompetent people in this administration. ( I really do trust Biden to hire competent intelligent people)
11. Racist and a bigot. ( Can’t believe I forgot to include this one) overturning an Obama program which would allow low income housing in the suburbs stating now your property values will go up and crime rates will go down. Make the suburbs white again! And how about suggesting Bubba Wallace owes us all an apology!  No he may not be the victim we thought he was but the only apology needed is President Trump to Bubba Wallace.

 
I have posted similar in the past, but as someone who considered himself a Republican for the vast majority of his life and still considers himself a conservative, not only will I not vote for Trump under any circumstance, but I have been doing everything I can to defeat him including donating significant amounts to the Lincoln Project and similar groups, working to get people in my community registered to vote, educating people as much as I can, etc. Here is why:

Things we know with 100% certainty about Trump, his administration, and his associates

ILLEGAL AND CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ASSOCIATES

1.      President Trump’s former personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, was convicted of multiple crimes including campaign finance violations, tax evasion, and making false statements to a financial institution

   a.      This personal lawyer of President Trump testified under oath that President Trump directed the commission of some of these crimes

2.      President Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, was convicted of multiple crimes including conspiracy to defraud the United States and witness tampering

   a.      President Trump was part of a joint defense agreement with this felon

3.      President Trump’s former deputy campaign chairman, Rick Gates, was convicted of conspiracy to defraud the United States and making false statements

4.      The first Congressman to endorse President Trump and a member of the President’s transition team, Chris Collins, pleaded guilty to insider trading and lying to the FBI

5.      The man generally regarded as one of President Trump’s oldest and closest advisors, Roger Stone, was convicted of multiple crimes including witness tampering, obstructing an official proceeding, and making false statements

6.      President Trump’s first National Security Advisor, Michael Flynn pleaded guilty to willfully and knowingly making false, fictitious and fraudulent statements to the FBI

7.      President Trump’s former foreign policy advisor, George Papadopoulos, served time in federal prison after pleading guilty to making false statements

8.      The non-partisan Government Accountability Office has ruled that the Trump Administration violated the law by illegally withholding national security aid to Ukraine

CORRUPT BEHAVIOR OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ASSOCIATES

1.      The Donald J. Trump Foundation was found to have violated campaign finance laws. As part of the judgment, the Trump family was found to have misused the funds of multiple charities including the Children’s Aid Society, for personal gain.

2.      President Trump commuted the sentence of Roger Stone, a man convicted of crimes specifically taken in order to shield Trump.

   a.      This is despite the fact that Attorney General and Trump support Bill Barr stated that Stone’s conviction was justified

   b.      Roger Stone stated that he was under pressure to “turn on” Trump and this commutation was a response to his loyalty in refusing to do that

   c.       Republican Senator Mitt Romney referred to the commutation as “historic corruption”

   d.      Conservative publication National Review called Trump’s actions “indefensible”

3.      President Trump has removed multiple inspectors general, officials charged with investigating corruption within the government, from their positions. This includes:

   a.      Firing Michael Atkinson, the inspector general of the intelligence community, expressly because Mr. Atkinson supported a whistleblower complaint against the Trump  administration

   b.      Firing Steve Linick, Inspector General of the Department of State, because he was investigating Secretary of State and Trump supporter Mike Pompeo

   c.       Firing Christi Grimm, the Health and Human Services Principal Deputy Inspector General, who wrote a report about deficiencies in the response to the COVID-19 pandemic

   d.      Firing Glenn Fine, Acting Inspector General of the Department of Defense, who was supposed to oversee the proper administration of $2 trillion in COVID-19 relief funds

4.      President Trump has on multiple occasions spoken out against the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and his administration has investigated ways to make it legal for companies to bribe other countries

5.      According to FEC filings, more than $1.8 million in presidential campaign money has gone to President Trump’s businesses, family members, and interests

6.      Trump-branded properties have charged the federal government at least $1.2 million

7.      Despite calling himself the “law and order president”, President Trump pardoned Joseph Arpaio, a political ally convicted of contempt of court without going through the usual process or providing any legitimate explanation for the pardon

8.      On multiple occasions President Trump has interfered in lawful judicial processes by making statements about ongoing investigations and trials, and in some cases even commenting directly on witnesses and their families

   a.      President Trump’s interference in judicial proceedings has been so alarming that the Federal Judges Association has had to emergently meet in order to address it

9.      President Trump’s former EPA administrator, Scott Pruitt, was the subject of 14 separate corruption investigations during his tenure in the Trump Administration

10.  President Trump took multiple steps to try to intimidate a whistleblower who was deemed credible by an inspector general whom Trump had appointed

   a.      This included implying that people who worked with whistleblower should be executed for exposing his corruption

11.  During a visit to Ireland, rather than staying in Dublin, Vice President Pence stayed at a Trump property more than 100 miles away, funneling tax payer money to a Trump company for no legitimate reason

   a.      Documents show that President Trump himself played a direct role in setting up this arrangement

12.  President Trump employs an Attorney General who is so corrupt that more than 2,000 former Justice Department officials, many of them Republicans, have signed a statement calling for his resignation over actions that have damaged “the Department of Justice's reputation for integrity and the rule of law”

13.  That same Attorney General was described in a ruling by a Republican-appointed judge as “lacking candor” and that statements he has made publicly “call into question Attorney General Barr’s credibility”

14.  Department of Justice attorneys have testified that the DOJ exerted influence to help Trump ally Roger Stone as he was being sentenced for his crimes, saying “I was told that the U.S. Attorney’s instructions had nothing to do with Mr. Stone, the facts of the case, the law, or Department policy. Instead, I was explicitly told that the motivation for changing the sentencing memo was political”

15.  Despite frequently promising to “drain the swamp”, in his first three years as president, Trump appointed more than 250 lobbyists to administration positions. This includes appointing more ex-lobbyists to Cabinet-level positions than President Bush and President Obama did in their entire terms combined.

DISHONESTY, ATTEMPTS TO DISTORT THE TRUTH, AND LACK OF TRANSPARENCY OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION

1.      As of May 29, 2020 President Trump had publicly made more than 19,000 false statements as president

2.      President Trump has said “What you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening”

3.      In one instance in which he was challenged by reporters about his multiple blatant lies President Trump called a reporter a “baby” for daring to challenge him, and eventually admitted “there is no proof of anything”

4.      President Trump employed a personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, who said “Truth isn’t truth”

5.      Senior Counselor in the Trump Administration, Kellyanne Conway, used the phrase “alternative facts”

6.      President Trump has called for the creation of a government-run television channel with the express purpose of broadcasting propaganda

7.      President Trump employed a campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, who testified under oath he does not believe he has an obligation to be honest with media

8.      The Trump Administration ended the normal practice of releasing summaries of phone calls with foreign leaders

9.      The Trump Administration went more than 300 days without holding a formal press briefing

10.  While at the World Economic Forum in Davos, President Trump admitted to and bragged about withholding relevant evidence from his impeachment trial

11.  According to Department of Justice court filings, the Trump Administration withheld dozens of e-mails related to President Trump’s involvement in the withholding of Ukrainian military assistance

12.  The Trump administration blocked Dr. Anthony Fauci from testifying before the House of Representatives in the spring of 2020 at the height of COVID-19 pandemic

13.  In July 2020 the Trump administration blocked CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield from testifying before Congress on the safe re-opening of schools

14.  President Trump has still not released his tax returns, the only president to fail to do this in more than 40 years

BEHAVIOR OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION THAT IS UNPATRIOTIC, UNDEMOCRATIC, AND CONTRARY TO AMERICAN VALUES

1.      President Trump has praised Kim Jong Un, the person generally considered to be the most ruthless dictator in the world, a man who has brutally executed hundreds of people and who tortures thousands in gulags, by saying he loves him

   a.      He failed to condemn this tyrant’s torture and brutal murder of an American citizen, and in fact made statements that diminish Kim’s culpability in that heinous crime

2.      President Trump has praised Recep Erdogan, another authoritarian leader who has imprisoned more journalists than any other person in the world, saying “He does things the right way” while giving him a fist bump

3.      President Trump has praised Rodrigo Duterte, an autocrat who openly supports extrajudicial killings. Trump called these extrajudicial killings “an unbelievable job.”

4.      President Trump has repeatedly sided with Vladimir Putin–a man who organized an attack on an American election and who is in active warfare against allies of the United States–on a range of issues. Trump has often questioned some of the United States’ most loyal and patriotic civil servants in the process, including intelligence community personnel who risk their lives for our security.

5.      President Trump on multiple occasions has repeated Kremlin propaganda about a number of issues, including the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan

6.      President Trump has repeatedly called the free press the “Enemy of the People”, a phrase usually reserved for totalitarian dictators and as antithetical to American values as any statement can possibly be

7.      On multiple occasions President Trump has discouraged mail-in voting, a fundamental aspect of American democracy and a method by which numerous Americans, including many elderly people and many military personnel, exercise their rights. This is despite the fact that Trump himself voted by mail in 2018.

8.      President Trump gave classified information from Israel, one of our greatest historical allies, to Russia, one of our greatest historical enemies

9.      President Trump’s Attorney General William Barr has threatened to withhold police protection from communities that don’t show proper “respect”

10.  Following an attempted domestic terrorist attack against multiple current and former United States government officials (mostly political opponents of the president), President Trump failed to reach out to any of the intended targets, he failed to name any of the intended targets in public speech, he complained about coverage of the incident taking away attention from his party, and then he joined calls for one of the intended targets to be imprisoned

11.  President Trump has claimed in official Tweets to “hate” places such as New York that do not support him

12.  President Trump has called Republicans who oppose him “human scum”

13.  On Memorial Day weekend 2020, a time when the country was supposed to remember those who have sacrificed their lives for our country and also a time when the United States was on the verge of crossing 100,000 deaths from the COVID-19 pandemic, President Trump spent his time playing golf, calling a political opponent a “skank”, and promoting a baseless conspiracy theory against a talk show host

14.  President Trump has repeatedly disparaged John McCain, an American war hero who served in Vietnam, who became a prisoner of war and suffered disabling injuries, who refused to leave an enemy prison prior to his fellow soldiers when given the opportunity to do so, and who subsequently spent decades in service to the United States

15.  Using the official White House Twitter account, the Trump administration attacked an active duty member of the military and Purple Heart recipient as he testified before Congress

16.  President Trump called a Marine Corps veteran an “American fraud” on Memorial Day

INCOMPETENT RESPONSE TO THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC

1.      Despite having just 4.3% of the world’s population, as of July 17, 2020 the United States had 23.8% of the world’s confirmed COVID-19 deaths

   a.      This is the largest total number of deaths of any country in the world and the 9th worst per capita death rate of 215 countries being tracked

   b.      This is despite the Unites States having the best resources to fight a pandemic according to the 2019 Global Health Security Index

2.      President Trump was given more than a dozen intelligence briefings in January and February 2020 warning that SARS-CoV-2 was a threat. In January one of his chief economic advisors sent a memo saying the virus could kill more than half a million Americans. Despite this, President Trump frequently downplayed the risk to the public with multiple statements, including:

   o   January 22: “We have it totally under control”

   o   February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA”

   o   February 26: “The 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero”

   o   February 27: “It’s going to disappear. One day–it’s like a miracle–it will disappear”

   o   March 4: “Large portions of the world are very safe to fly”

   o   March 7: “I’m not concerned at all”

   o   March 10: “Just stay calm. It will go away”

   o   March 24: “We begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel”

   o   March 29: “We can expect that, by June 1st, we will be well on our way to recovery”

   o   April 3: “I said it was going away - and it is going away”

3.      In the months preceding the SARS-CoV-2 outbreak, the Trump Administration eliminated a public health position intended to help detect disease outbreaks in China

4.      Across 13 hours of speaking to the press during 3 weeks of briefings in mid-April, President Trump spent more than 15% of that time (over 2 hours) attacking other people. He attacked someone in nearly 1/3 of the questions he answered and made false or misleading statements in nearly 1/4 of his answers. He spent less than 5 minutes offering condolences to the victims during this time.

5.      President Trump publicly stated that he wanted to keep people who had been exposed to SARS-CoV-2 isolated on a ship for the purpose of falsely depressing the number of reported infections

6.      President Trump publicly called for a slowing down of testing for the coronavirus

7.      President Trump indicated that he ties federal aid for the pandemic to his personal feelings, saying “If they don't treat you right, I don't call”

8.      President Trump suggested injecting disinfectant into human bodies as a method of fighting the disease, saying “And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. And is there a way we can do something, by an injection inside or almost a cleaning? It would be interesting to check that.”

9.      In the middle of the pandemic, President Trump said that he had “never heard of” Dr. Rick Bright, the scientist who until mid-April was in charge of the government’s efforts to develop a vaccine

10.  The Trump Administration withheld a document developed by the CDC which was geared toward safe reopening (“Guidance for Implementing the Opening Up America Again Framework”) in early May 2020

11.  During a week in July in which cases rose at record levels, President Trump retweeted a post by game show host Chuck Woolery saying that “everyone is lying” about the coronavirus pandemic

12.  President Trump abdicated his responsibility for protecting the American people during a national threat, saying in a letter to Charles Schumer “the Federal Government is merely a back-up for state governments”

13.  Following the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, the United States lost over 20 million jobs in April 2020. At the end of the month, the jobless rate of 14.7% was the highest level our country has seen since the Great Depression.

OTHER INCOMPETENCE OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION

1.      Despite frequently touting the “greatest economy ever”, average GDP growth under President Trump as of March 2020 was lower than the average growth of 8 of the last 15 presidents

   a.      GDP growth under the first 12 quarters of Trump’s Presidency was also lower than the last 12 quarters of Obama’s Presidency

2.      According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, under President Trump’s watch the United States went into a recession in February 2020, before the closure of American businesses in response to the COVID-19 pandemic

3.      Despite promising to eliminate the National Debt, President Trump oversaw an increase in the debt of $2.474 trillion in his first two years of office. That increase has continued to climb.

   a.      The budget deficit under President Trump for the month of June 2020 alone was $864 billion. This is more than the entire final year under President Obama ($587 billion).

4.      President Trump instituted the longest government shutdown in American history, causing significant pain to hundreds of thousands of Americans

5.      The Trump Administration has had the highest turnover rate for senior officials of any modern administration. At times, this has left critical positions unfilled.

   a.      For example, at a time of escalating tensions with Iran when nearly all agreed war was a significant possibility, the Trump Administration failed to have a permanent official in any of the following positions: Secretary of the Navy, Director of National Intelligence, Secretary of Homeland Security, Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security, and Undersecretary of State Department for Arms Control and International Security Affairs.

6.      Despite President Trump claiming he has made progress on the North Korea situation and stating that they are no longer a threat, North Korea has continued to expand its nuclear weapons capabilities under President Trump’s watch

7.      President Trump publicly stated he didn’t know people could die from the flu, despite the fact that his grandfather died from the virus

8.      In a public speech, President Trump claimed that in 1775 the Revolutionary Army took over airports

9.      The United States was forced to remove its top spy in Russia because President Trump and his administration repeatedly mishandled classified data, placing the agent’s life in danger

10.  President Trump’s former Secretary of Defense, Secretary of State, National Security Advisor, and Chief of Staff have all described him as incompetent and not suited to handle the job of President

IMMORALITY, BIGOTRY, CRUELTY, AND UNCHRISTIAN BEHAVIOR OF PRESIDENT TRUMP

1.      President Trump re-Tweeted a video of a supporter of his yelling “white power” and then called the people on that video “great people”

2.      President Trump previously called for the death penalty for the Central Park Five, who were found innocent, and to this day has refused to apologize for this

3.      President Trump has advocated killing the families of enemy combatants

4.      President Trump pardoned a war criminal described by his fellow platoon members as being “freaking evil”

5.      President Trump has threatened to destroy important world cultural sites in violation of international laws of armed conflict

6.      President Trump has made multiple pro-violence statements at his rallies, including saying “I’d like to punch him in the face,” saying “maybe he should have been roughed up,” saying “part of the problem is nobody wants to hurt each other anymore”, and offering to pay the legal bills of supporters who physically harmed people protesting against him

7.      President Trump praised a Republican Congressman who was convicted of physically assaulting a reporter

8.      President Trump has used profanity on live television

9.      President Trump publicly mocked a disable man

10.  Per his own words caught on tape, President Trump gropes women without permission

11.  President Trump has made multiple denigrating comments about women, including, but certainly not limited to:

   a.      “Miss housekeeping”

   b.      “Bleeding very badly from a face lift”

   c.       “Look at that face…would anyone vote for that?”

   d.      “Miss piggy”

12.  President Trump called for a complete ban of all members of a particular religion from entering the United States

13.  President Trump claimed that a Hispanic judge couldn’t be impartial because of his ethnicity

14.  The Trump Administration oversaw the separation from their parents and/or incarceration of hundreds of children for the express purpose of deterrence

15.  During the COVID-19 pandemic, President Trump frequently insulted governors that he was supposed to be working with to try to save people’s lives, using terms like “half-whit” and “snake”

16.  President Trump described people losing jobs at a magazine as “great news” because the magazine criticized him

17.  President Trump publicly smeared Martin Gugino, a human rights advocate and Catholic Relief worker who was assaulted by police while peacefully protesting

18.  President Trump attacked a deceased man and lifelong public servant, John Dingle, shortly after his death, publicly suggesting he was going to Hell, one week before his widow spent her first Christmas without her husband

19.  President Trump has described a political opponent’s actions as “unforgivable”, an incredibly anti-Christian statement

20.  President Trump used the National Prayer Breakfast to attack his political opponents in a manner completely contrary to Jesus’ message of loving one’s enemies

21.  President Trump has said he does not ask God for forgiveness

Things that are slightly less clear or open to some interpretation, but supported by such a preponderance of evidence that no reasonable person could doubt them or their awfulness

CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ASSOCIATES

1.      President Trump attacked an American diplomat, Marie Yavanovich, while she was testifying before Congress, and she testified that she felt like Trump was trying to intimidate her. Witness intimidation is a crime.

CORRUPT BEHAVIOR OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ASSOCIATES

1.      Former National Security Advisor John Bolton told Attorney General William Barr that he was concerned about personal favors that President Trump was giving to autocratic rulers in Turkey and China

2.      According to a Government Accountability Office Report, three Trump supporters and Mar-a-Lago members with no official government position largely determined policy for the Department of Veterans Affairs

3.      President Trump’s former Secretary of the Interior, Ryan Zinke, was forced out of office due to multiple scandals and ethics violations

4.      President Trump directed General Mattis in the summer of 2018 to "screw Amazon" out of a $10 billion cloud contract because of his feud with Jeff Bezos

5.      President Trump withdrew the nomination of Elaine McCusker for Pentagon Comptroller because she refused to illegally hold up funds that were marked for Ukraine

6.      President Trump fired Joseph Maguire, Acting Director of National Intelligence, because he perceived Maguire’s job of briefing Congress as being disloyal to Trump

7.      Three high-ranking United States officials testified under oath that a White House visit for Ukraine's president was explicitly conditioned on his agreeing to investigations that could help Trump's re-election

8.      According to Lawfare, of the 36 pardons and commutations issued by President Trump, 31 of them have involved a personal relationship between the criminal and Trump, have been given to a celebrity, or have advanced the President’s political interests

BEHAVIOR OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION THAT IS UNPATRIOTIC, UNDEMOCRATIC, AND CONTRARY TO AMERICAN VALUES

1.      President Trump was complicit in helping to cover up the brutal murder of an American journalist by the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, failing to perform his legal duty by not providing Congress with a sufficient explanation of this incident

2.      Following intelligence community assessments that Russian forces were placing bounties on the lives of American soldiers, in some cases possibly leading to the deaths of those soldiers, the Trump Administration took no action to deter Russia. To this day President Trump has still not publicly addressed this.

3.      President Trump repeatedly dodged the draft during the Vietnam War, and then later compared his promiscuous sexual behavior to the hardships faced by soldiers who did fight for the United States

4.      President Trump refused to go to a Veterans’ Day memorial because it was raining

5.      President Trump was caught on video mocking the national anthem at the Super Bowl

6.      President Trump ranted about poll numbers and the 'LameStream Media' minutes before the national moment of silence to remember 9/11

7.      The Trump Administration tried to set up a meeting with the Taliban at Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11

8.      President Trump abandoned the SDF Kurds, a long-standing US ally who helped fight ISIS and pushed for a moderate Syrian government, after promising to help defend them from Turkish aggression.

9.      President Trump has made multiple statements that can be described as nothing other than autocratic, including:

   a.      "I have the absolute right to declare a national emergency"

   b.      "I have the absolute right to PARDON myself"

   c.       "I have absolute right to do what I want to do with the Justice Department"

   d.      “When somebody is the President of the United States, the authority is total. And that’s the way it’s gotta be. It’s total.”

10.  The Trump Administration used tear gas to disperse peaceful protestors so that President Trump could participate in a photo-op in front of a church

   a.      The act was almost universally condemned by current and former military leaders including former Trump Secretary of Defense James Mattis

   b.      The act was widely condemned by religious leaders including being referred to as “heretical act of public idolatry”

INCOMPETENT RESPONSE TO THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC

1.      Prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, the Trump Administration largely disbanded the pandemic response team that was part of the National Security Council’s Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense

2.      President Trump and White House appointees pressured public health officials to make unproven and potentially dangerous drugs available for COVID-19 treatment

3.      Multiple experts have indicated that the United States would have fared much better during the COVID-19 pandemic with an earlier response and that tens of thousands of lives could have been saved

4.      In a March 30 call to governors, President Trump said “I haven’t heard anything about testing being a problem” despite there being widespread news coverage at that time about difficulties obtaining testing. At this time, Republican governor Mike DeWine said “we don’t have widespread testing” and Republican governor Larry Hogan commented “No state has enough testing”.

5.      Early in the pandemic, the White House overruled health officials who wanted to recommend that elderly and physically fragile Americans be advised not to fly on commercial airlines

6.      Multiple state and local authorities have indicated that during the height of the pandemic, the Trump Administration hampered their ability to obtain PPE

7.       In mid-July, following a week in which the United States saw records for new cases nearly every day, the Trump Administration attempted to block funding for testing and contacting tracing

OTHER INCOMPETENCE OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION

1.      President Trump has exposed sensitive information to adversaries like China and Russia through the use of unsecured communications devices

IMMORALITY, BIGOTRY, CRUELTY, AND UNCHRISTIAN BEHAVIOR OF PRESIDENT TRUMP

1.      In what is at best a sinfully proud statement and at worst outright blasphemy, President Trump has referred to himself as “the Chosen One”

2.      President Trump previously had an affair with a porn star while his wife was raising their newborn son

3.      President Trump endorsed a Senate candidate credibly accused of pedophilia

4.      President Trump employed a staff secretary credibly accused of domestic violence against multiple women

5.      President Trump failed to respond when his son, Donald Trump Jr., challenged his supporters to 'trigger' their liberal relatives over Thanksgiving dinner, offering prizes for the best one caught on camera

6.      President Trump used shady business practices to defraud students for his personal financial gain

7.      On Juneteenth, President Trump made threats against people who would protest in Tulsa, site of one of the worst racially motivated massacres in American history

8.      President Trump employs Steven Miller, a man who is reasonably considered a white nationalist, as the primary immigration advisor in the White House.

9.      President Trump referred to Neo-Nazis in Charlottesville as “very fine people”

That horrifying list is just the tip of the iceberg. This account of completely horrendous words and actions by the president doesn’t even touch on the multiple credible sexual assault allegations against him, his statements suggesting that sexual assault allegations matter less than winning political victories, his cowardly displays of fealty toward other world leaders, his cowardly tactic of constantly blaming others and never accepting any responsibility, his insults to Gold Star families, his campaign’s multiple contacts with Russian agents and lies about those contacts (after being warned by the FBI to report any contact with Russians), his casino’s known ties to the Russian Mafia, his multiple business failures and bankruptcies, his description of the deaths of 3,000 Americans during a hurricane as an A+ success, his numerous other attacks on people and institutions that have served our country for years, his multiple denigrating comments about countries with non-white majorities, his settlement of a lawsuit alleging racial discrimination by one of his companies, or his myriad other attempts to obstruct justice. The list is also a little out of date, obviously, being compiled a few weeks ago. So it doesn't include, for example, his use of racist dog whistles on a day of remembrance for John Lewis, his use of federal officers for local law enforcement against states' wishes, his endorsement of a doctor who said alien DNA is being used to create vaccines, or his wish well and Epstein-associated pedophilia supporter. 

He is quite simply someone who is uniquely dishonest, corrupt, and incompetent in a way that is orders of magnitude worse than any other politician. He is anti-American, he is an opponent of the values of democracy, he is an opponent of the values of Christianity and he actively works against the interests of the United States. 

That is why it is a moral imperative that every person not only votes against him, but does everything they can to ensure his defeat. 

 
To be fair, you really didn't need to start a new thread about this.

It's obvious why you guys won't be voting for Trump.  The forum is filled with 99.9% of posts railing on him.

TripItUp's thread stood out because it's the exact opposite of most of the posts in here.

 
I'm an independent who voted Trump in 2016.  I supported (financially, giving the legal maximum to) Bernie Sanders in the Primaries and now I'm voting for Biden in 2020.  Probably the biggest problem I have with Trump is his divisiveness.  General Mattis said it best:

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership.

What I'm hoping is that Rand Paul's assessment of the situation is accurate:  "There will be Bernie Sanders socialists in the next administration if we let Biden win".  

Bernie's stance on certain issues - especially the issue of income and wealth inequality - gave me something I could definitively vote for.  Biden.... not so much.  But what I'm hoping is that if Biden wins, the Bernie Bros will have some influence on matters.    

 
To be fair, you really didn't need to start a new thread about this.

It's obvious why you guys won't be voting for Trump.  The forum is filled with 99.9% of posts railing on him.

TripItUp's thread stood out because it's the exact opposite of most of the posts in here.
To be really fair....

If you're really trying to compare the reasons for voting for a certain candidate...

While answering as why we were voting FOR Trump....our replies, mostly came from our hearts in our own words
....not cut and pasted from other sources (which aren't very easy to find in the media)

And I would like to point out that, while one thread was why we were voting FOR Trump....this thread is, "Why I'm voting AGAINST Trump"....not "Why I am Voting FOR Joe BIden".

...just saying    :shrug:

 
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To be really fair....

If you're really trying to compare the reasons for voting for a certain candidate...

While answering as why we were voting FOR Trump....our replies, mostly came from our hearts in our own words
....not cut and pasted from other sources (which aren't very easy to find in the media)

And I would like to point out that, while one thread was why we were voting FOR Trump....this thread is, why I'm voting AGAINST Trump....not "Why I am Voting FOR Joe BIden".

...just saying    :shrug:
So, once again,  another I Hate Trump thread?

 
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To be really fair....

While answering as why we were voting FOR Trump....our replies, mostly came from our hearts in our own words
....not cut and pasted from other sources (which aren't very easy to find in the media)

And I would like to point out that, while one thread was why we were voting FOR Trump....this thread is, why I'm voting AGAINST Trump....not "Why I am Voting FOR Joe BIden".

...just saying    :shrug:
I will readily admit my vote for Biden will be nothing more than a vote against Trump.  I read through the entire thread about why people are voting for Trump, and some of it I completely understand.  I think you do a decent job explaining your support when you aren't on the defensive or responding to snark with snark.  I just happen to disagree that Trump is truly working to address many of the issues people give him credit for.  I believe his guiding principle is what is good for him first, everything else falls way below that.  I don't think he is a principled human being, I think he does a good job of recognizing who his supporters are, what their grievances are, and promises to address them.  

Not everything Trump has done has been bad, but I do believe that he is bad, rotten to the core in fact.  I find him despicable, and hope that he loses this election in spectacular fashion.  I then hope that eventually we will get a president who recognizes that many of the concerns of the Trump base, the forgotten middle of the country, where globalization, special interest driven politics, and technological advancement has destroyed opportunity, are legitimate and require attention.  There are a ton of people in this country who have watched a way of life fall by the wayside, and no options emerging to replace them.  I doubt it will be Biden, but this has to be done one step at a time.  The first step is removing Trump.  

 
I will readily admit my vote for Biden will be nothing more than a vote against Trump.  I read through the entire thread about why people are voting for Trump, and some of it I completely understand.  I think you do a decent job explaining your support when you aren't on the defensive or responding to snark with snark.  I just happen to disagree that Trump is truly working to address many of the issues people give him credit for.  I believe his guiding principle is what is good for him first, everything else falls way below that.  I don't think he is a principled human being, I think he does a good job of recognizing who his supporters are, what their grievances are, and promises to address them.  

Not everything Trump has done has been bad, but I do believe that he is bad, rotten to the core in fact.  I find him despicable, and hope that he loses this election in spectacular fashion.  I then hope that eventually we will get a president who recognizes that many of the concerns of the Trump base, the forgotten middle of the country, where globalization, special interest driven politics, and technological advancement has destroyed opportunity, are legitimate and require attention.  There are a ton of people in this country who have watched a way of life fall by the wayside, and no options emerging to replace them.  I doubt it will be Biden, but this has to be done one step at a time.  The first step is removing Trump.  
...by hook or by crook...apparently.

I just wouldn't be expecting the same civil discourse as the other thread if it turns out to be just another, Trump bashing thread.

 
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So, once again,  another I Hate Trump thread?
One more ain't gonna hurt anything.

It is doomed to the fate of all the rest of them.

Edited 5 minutes ago by Opie
The other thread was quite civil and went well...can you two try to do the same in here.  If you have specific points you want to ask about do so...but this type of thing will not help.

If you don't like this thread...don't post in it.

 
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To be fair you it would be nice to debate why you disagree with the reasons not to vote for President Trump. No matter who the Democrats ran I would be voting for them over President Trump. It would be impossible for anyone to do more harm to this country. I will not deny there is unexplainable enthusiasm for President Trump. This go around there are many more voters, including me who won’t be voting third party and are voting for the only candidate who can defeat the President. Voting for or voting against will achieve the same results.

 
The other thread was quite civil and went well...can you two try to do the same in here.  If you have specific points you want to ask about do so...but this type of thing will not help.

If you don't like this thread...don't post in it.
Sure thing....start off by telling me the reasons why you are voting for Joe Biden.
Exactly what, in your opinion, makes Joe Biden a better candidate for POTUS?

Feed me, Seymour...FEED ME!!

 
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Sure thing....start off by telling me the reasons why you are voting for Joe Biden.
That could be another thread...but sure.

1.  And no reason to hide it...to remove Donald Trump from office for all the reasons I listed and the many more in this thread already.  Because I think he is a clear and present danger to the United States of America.

2.  Healthcare...while the ACA has many flaws...I believe it can work and evolve into a better system rather than it being gutted and made worse over the last 3.5 years under Trump leadership.

3.  Trade...for the reasons I listed above where Trump is not actually in the traditional conservative on this issue, I believe Biden and the Democrats have moved more towards what was the conservative position.

4. Tax and deficit...the deficit is out of control...the tax cuts when they happened were a failure IMO.  The deficit has exploded and now when we are in worse economic shape we have less tools to use to try and generate growth and kick things back into gear.  Im not against tax cuts...I am against ones that typically favor the wealthy and corporations much more than the middle and lower classes...given how the stuff for the higher ups was built in with more permanency than the parts that expire...I think its clear those tax cuts were not for the major benefit of those that need it most.  Growth has also been flat out awful...Trump has not even matched what he called out so bad about Obama's GDP.  That is a failure.  I think we need a different approach and Biden will give us that.  I don't believe its going to be some big tax hike...I don't think the economy will crash.  And what we have seen under the last 2 dem presidents (including the administration Biden worked for) is a solid stock market and growth (after the recession...slow but steady).  As well as seeing how in the latter years Obama got the deficit under control.

5.  Supreme Court and Federal Judgeships....I would much rather have a more balanced court and Biden appointing such judges.  

6.  Foreign policy experience and ability to get along with our allies.

7.  Science will be listened to on things like Viruses, the Environment...

8.  Gun control (and along with healthcare mental healthcare that plays into both points).  More steps need to be taken to get a hold of the gun problems in this country.  Common sense laws that won't come out of the current administration.

9. Police reform...another that we see is badly needed.

Those are not in real particular order...and just a start.

Biden isn't my first choice...but he is the better choice we have this election in almost every way I look at it.

 
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Sure thing....start off by telling me the reasons why you are voting for Joe Biden.
He has empathy, 

He is not incompetent 

He is not reprehensible 

He understands the constitution 

He respects veterans

He can be diplomatic 

He worries about the environment 

He actually cares about other people 

He won’t request to have his face chiseled on Mt Rushmore 

He respects all the 3 branches of government 

He can say Thailand and Yosemite

He won’t “ fall in love “with any ruthless dictators

He won’t be expecting his cabinet and staff admire him and stroke his ego.

He will read his daily briefings 

He won’t abandon his allies  who fought by our side in the Middle East 

 
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It's comical that ANOTHER thread had to be started for the same stuff regurgitated over and over and over. We heard all of the whining in the other 700 threads, just stop.
Its telling that the complaints about this while the praise of the other thread...with much of that stuff being available from people in other threads as well.

While in this thread...the Trump crew has come in trying to derail and get personal rather than hold a civil conversation.  

 
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Its telling that the complaints about this while the praise of the other thread...with much of that stuff being available from people in other threads as well.

While in this thread...the Trump crew has come in trying to derail and get personal rather than hold a civil conversation.  
I did not get personal. I just think it's ridiculous the number of threads started just to spew the same exact stuff over and over.

 
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I did not get personal. I just think it's ridiculous the number of threads started just to spew the same exact stuff over and over.
I searched to find a place for me to list the reasons I would not be voting for President Trump, I couldn’t find a suitable place

 
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The entire PSF is made up of it.  Pick any thread.  You didn't need to start a new one.
This goes two ways. Lots of threads to read, if someone wants to list a comprehensive list of reasons they don’t like trump who cares? No need to fill it with complaints about the existence of the thread. Just like all the unemployed people- “Find something else!”

 
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This goes two ways. Lots of threads to read, if someone wants to list a comprehensive list of reasons they don’t like trump who cares? No need to fill it with complaints about the existence of the thread. Just like all the unemployed people- “Find something else!”
Hmmm...I"m not arguing that he CAN'T start a new thread.  It's obvious it was created to foil the "Reason Why I'm Voting for Trump" thread, not out of reasons to vote for Biden.  It just seems quite redundant since the entire PSF is dedicated to reasons why people aren't voting for Trump.,

And, also, what @Opie said. The Trump thread came out of the heart and understanding reasons why. This thread was clearly created out of hate and knee-jerk reactions, IMO anyways.  It didn't come from a good place.

But, that's just my opinion.

 
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This goes two ways. Lots of threads to read, if someone wants to list a comprehensive list of reasons they don’t like trump who cares? No need to fill it with complaints about the existence of the thread. Just like all the unemployed people- “Find something else!”
Yeah...like the why im voting for Trump had several threads it could have gone into...instead, it was a civil and productive thread until later in the thread when it started going off the rails on things not related to reasons anyway and the same false claims being made.

This one...could be the same...but the same who wanted that one so civil...refuse to do so now when it isn't for their guy.

Not a post really responding to reasons people are giving...just complaints that people are giving lists of reasons.

 
Yeah...like the why im voting for Trump had several threads it could have gone into...instead, it was a civil and productive thread until later in the thread when it started going off the rails on things not related to reasons anyway and the same false claims being made.

This one...could be the same...but the same who wanted that one so civil...refuse to do so now when it isn't for their guy.

Not a post really responding to reasons people are giving...just complaints that people are giving lists of reasons.
Don’t you post over and over to keep posts about the topic and not posters? 

 
Hmmm...I"m not arguing that he CAN'T start a new thread.  It's obvious it was created to foil the "Reason Why I'm Voting for Trump" thread, not out of reasons to vote for Biden.  It just seems quite redundant since the entire PSF is dedicated to reasons why people aren't voting for Trump.,

And, also, what @Opie said. The Trump thread came out of the heart and understanding reasons why. This thread was clearly created out of hate and knee-jerk reactions, IMO anyways.  It didn't come from a good place.

But, that's just my opinion.
Not being snarky or anything --but this made me laugh 😀

 
Same could be said for ther other thread..... I'd think the trump supporter thread was sufficient for discussing why people are supporting trump.  

As far as I'm concerned, start all the threads you want around here. That's what this place is for.   but if you're going to complain about threads,  complain about things you arent also guilty of. :shrug:
You might have a case if this forum wasn't 99.9% Trump bashing. 2 Threads out of 99,999 seems like a good reason to put it in it's own thread.

I guess I won't belabor the point any further.  Carry on in this mini-PSF thread.

 
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To be really fair....

If you're really trying to compare the reasons for voting for a certain candidate...

While answering as why we were voting FOR Trump....our replies, mostly came from our hearts in our own words
....not cut and pasted from other sources (which aren't very easy to find in the media)

And I would like to point out that, while one thread was why we were voting FOR Trump....this thread is, "Why I'm voting AGAINST Trump"....not "Why I am Voting FOR Joe BIden".

...just saying    :shrug:
I don't think you understand (or want to believe) this is what some conservatives like myself have come to.  We are not voting for Biden we are voting against Trump. 

 
...by hook or by crook...apparently.

I just wouldn't be expecting the same civil discourse as the other thread if it turns out to be just another, Trump bashing thread.
I think the very nature of this thread makes it hard to not be negative.  One thread is a thread focused on the positives, i.e. the “for”, and in that thread I believe people stay focused on not letting her go sideways. This thread is focused on the negative, i.e the “against”, so by its very nature it’s going to be far more negative.

 
Man In The Box said:
All conservatives care about is abortion, 2A, and the Supreme Court. And owning the libs, I guess. They don’t care about the rich getting richer or how much the middle class and poor get screwed. That’s what’s been proven to me over the past 3 plus years. What did Trump run on in 2016? Lock up Hillary? Didn’t happen. Build a wall that Mexico would pay for? Nope. Repeal and replace Obamacare with something better? Well, we’re waiting Mr. President. I mean, he’s still tweeting Make America Great Again six times an hour for Christ sakes. Has he not had enough time? I don’t think real conservatives like him. Not even a little bit. But he’s “better” than the alternative. It’s tribalism now, not politics. Left vs. right. Doesn’t matter who the candidate is
well to be fair, conservatives DO care about more than just those things but there is truth in what you said

people can get as rich as they want and rich is often directly proportional to work and effort - so yes, people who work hard and make $100,000 or $300,000 or $800,000 more power to them

time is an interesting thing ... Biden has 35 years in DC and had 8 years co-running the country ... all the problems now was existing in 2008-2016 right? why didn't they fix them then ?

the real truth I highlighted in red - it doesn't matter who the candidate is in 2020, people are voting right and left, liberal vs conservative for the most part ... the few million undecided voters will decide this election

 
Is there a "Why I'm voting for Joe Biden" thread?

At this point I hope Biden kicks his ### but it would be nice to get reassured with some reasons to like him other than "he's not Trump"

 
Is there a "Why I'm voting for Joe Biden" thread?

At this point I hope Biden kicks his ### but it would be nice to get reassured with some reasons to like him other than "he's not Trump"
Anyone is free to fire one up...I responded when asked about such a thing.  I think much of it does revolve around Trump as I don't feel Biden was a top choice for many here.

But there are legitimate reasons to do so as well.

Edit....just added a new topic.

 
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You might have a case if this forum wasn't 99.9% Trump bashing. 2 Threads out of 99,999 seems like a good reason to put it in it's own thread.

I guess I won't belabor the point any further.  Carry on in this mini-PSF thread.
Don't know....i don't have a problem with the quantity of threads. I'll leave it to you to figure out.... was just an observation and i really don't understand how your response changes any of what you were saying before

 
Anyone is free to fire one up...I responded when asked about such a thing.  I think much of it does revolve around Trump as I don't feel Biden was a top choice for many here.

But there are legitimate reasons to do so as well.
Yea i mean I'm sure about 90% of people want Biden just to take out Trump but in terms of a thread to counter the other one it seems like a more positive thread would be a better way to go

 
Yea i mean I'm sure about 90% of people want Biden just to take out Trump but in terms of a thread to counter the other one it seems like a more positive thread would be a better way to go
Yeah...you replied while I was starting the other thread and adding the edit here...I get it...I think there are reasons both ways.  More so with this POTUS than others before him IMO.

 
Hmmm...I"m not arguing that he CAN'T start a new thread.  It's obvious it was created to foil the "Reason Why I'm Voting for Trump" thread, not out of reasons to vote for Biden.  It just seems quite redundant since the entire PSF is dedicated to reasons why people aren't voting for Trump.,

And, also, what @Opie said. The Trump thread came out of the heart and understanding reasons why. This thread was clearly created out of hate and knee-jerk reactions, IMO anyways.  It didn't come from a good place.

But, that's just my opinion.
We have the "Trump 2020-The Great Place" thread and "The Reasons I am Voting for Trump " thread. The first one we have been asked to let it be the Trumper's safe place. Rather than bring "why I wasn't voting for Trump"  to the second thread  I decided to start a new thread. Question # 1- Was there really need two threads? Although very similar I am okay with it. Would you rather I had listed all the reasons why I would not be voting for Trump to one of these two listed threads? In regards to hate and knee jerk reactions(like the vast majority here), if one really does not like the job the current Commander in Chief is doing what type of reaction do you expect. 

 
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