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TripItUp

Avoiding CA Taxes & Moving to Tax Friendly States

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Posted (edited)

Summary, my significant other and I do well and are looking at buying a primary home in a more financially friendly state(currently looking at Park City, Utah) while still keeping our CA home as a secondary home.    The state tax laws and property tax law differences are so beneficial that the second home nearly pays for itself.(CA is the highest in the union and Utah is one of the best.)  We also anticipate taxes could get worse for us with California's looming financial crisis.

My question is this, does anybody have experience with similar strategies?   Did you employ a tax attorney?   We know the CA audit is coming and specifically targets people like us so we just want to be prepared.

 

Thanks!!

Edited by TripItUp

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As you may know, California does not use a 183-day litmus test for residency.  It's all facts and circumstances.  

Let me ask you this... where do you intend to work?  Can you work from your UT home or is your physical presence in CA required to do your job?  

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I think that a consultation with a tax attorney is probably smart, based on the little bit that I have heard about how athletes figure out how to manage these things.  There are a lot of different variables, such a johnnycakes has started to suggest.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, johnnycakes said:

As you may know, California does not use a 183-day litmus test for residency.  It's all facts and circumstances.  

Let me ask you this... where do you intend to work?  Can you work from your UT home or is your physical presence in CA required to do your job?  

Yep,  we know that...probably need to have attorneys representing us etc.    We will both be able to work 100% remotely.  Significant other is in Sales and has been 100% virtual since pandemic.

I'm in cybersecurity consulting with clients on 5 continents and throughout the USA.

Edited by TripItUp

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From this website.

Quote

 

How does the FTB determine whether a visit has a permanent purpose versus a temporary one? It applies the so-called “Closest Connection Test.” This refers the comparing contacts a person has with various states during a taxable year: the one with the “closest contacts” is the state of legal residence. For the FTB, this literally means counting all the California contacts a person has and comparing that number with the non-California contacts. Of course, some contacts simply weigh more than others. A job or real estate ownership obviously indicates a closer tie than merely enjoying a round of golf at a country club or attending a music festival. The weightiest factors for residency (based on statutes, regulations and audit practices) are the following:

Ownership or lease of real estate.

Business interests or employment.

Financial accounts, such as banks and investments, safe deposit boxes.

A spouse’s residency (they don’t have to be the same)

Schools children attend.

Voter registration.

Automobile registration and license

Use of professional services such as primary physician, dentists, accountants and lawyers.

Professional licenses.

Family ties and social life.

Representations of residency in social media or websites (where does your Twitter account say you’re tweeting from?).

Address used on various tax documents, such as a federal return (form 1040) or W-2s, 1099s, K-1s, etc.

Location of important personal belongings such as family heirlooms, art, or important documents.

Membership in clubs and gyms.

And of course, where you spend most of your time.

I hasten to add, these are just factors. Despite many internet myths about California residency, no one thing makes you a resident; and no one thing makes you a nonresident. California doesn’t follow bright-line rules to determine residency, but rather employs a “facts and circumstances” standard. That means FTB auditors can be somewhat impressionistic in their application of the law and downplay the main factors in favor of quirky logic, as our Texas client discovered. In another case our firm handled, the FTB argued that an elderly South Dakota couple with a second home in Palm Springs were residents because during their seasonal stays here, they would fly overseas or go on a cruise. According to the auditor, if the couple left Palm Springs to go on a vacation, they could not be on vacation while in Palm Springs. Again, the FTB eventually lost. There are actual rules about how the tax authorities can weigh contacts. But that often happens at the appellate level,  where attorneys get involved, after a residency audit has occurred and the taxpayers already incurred tens of thousands of dollars in legal and accounting fees.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

From this website.

 

So there you have a list of indicia of residence.  Going off that list, the more you can do to make your ties with Utah stronger while severing your ties to CA, the better off you will be if you are looking to shed your CA residence.  Bear in mind...  what are your long-term plans for the CA home?  Has it appreciated much?  If you successfully switch your residence from CA to UT, then sell the CA home at some point down the road, you may not be able to avail yourself of the $500k (MFJ) exclusion from income on the gain on sale of that CA residence.  You need to have used it for two out of the last five years as a primary residence in order to get that exclusion, so if you hold that CA home too long after establishing UT residence, that exclusion may not be available to you. 

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Wouldn't a tax attorney be a little overkill with all the information on the interwebz?

Why not just do like most Californians tired of taxes and move over to Nevada?

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4 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

Wouldn't a tax attorney be a little overkill with all the information on the interwebz?

Why not just do like most Californians tired of taxes and move over to Nevada?

He wants to keep his CA home and he wants to continue to use it.  This can open the door to a residency audit if he's not careful.  

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6 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

Why not just do like most Californians tired of taxes and move over to Nevada?

Or Texas. 

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33 minutes ago, johnnycakes said:

So there you have a list of indicia of residence.  Going off that list, the more you can do to make your ties with Utah stronger while severing your ties to CA, the better off you will be if you are looking to shed your CA residence.  Bear in mind...  what are your long-term plans for the CA home?  Has it appreciated much?  If you successfully switch your residence from CA to UT, then sell the CA home at some point down the road, you may not be able to avail yourself of the $500k (MFJ) exclusion from income on the gain on sale of that CA residence.  You need to have used it for two out of the last five years as a primary residence in order to get that exclusion, so if you hold that CA home too long after establishing UT residence, that exclusion may not be available to you. 

Good to know, thanks!

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2 minutes ago, bigbottom said:
9 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

Why not just do like most Californians tired of taxes and move over to Nevada?

Or Texas. 

Or Alaska, or South Dakota, or Washington, or Wyoming. @TripItUp doesn’t strike me as a Florida man.

 

One factor is nexus. This case is cited often for franchise taxes (a not insignificant CA filing.) I presume y’all have flow through entities (partnership, S-Corp)?

As for individual income tax, residency and where the income is earned are the key points. You’re not a professional athlete filing 25 state/local tax returns but for instance MLB ball players with a reporting bonus are allowed to allocate that part to FL and avoid home state income tax. Not residents of the Sunshine state but the valid argument is where the income is earned.

I’m a CPA but 20+ years removed from being in the tax game. It’s worth a consultation if you don’t have an attorney or CPA on retainer.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

Or Texas. 

Looking for a Mountain West/cooler/dry climate with a major airport within an hour.  That leaves just Colorado and Utah.

Edited by TripItUp
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

Or Alaska, or South Dakota, or Washington, or Wyoming. @TripItUp doesn’t strike me as a Florida man.

 

Alaska and Florida too far away and don't have ideal climates for us.

South Dakota and Wyoming have airport issues.   We both travel for work enough for airport to matter and require direct flights to most major cities.  Montana and Wyoming were initially considered but they lacked the flights we needed.  

 

 

 

Edited by TripItUp

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5 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

One factor is nexus. This case is cited often for franchise taxes (a not insignificant CA filing.) I presume y’all have flow through entities (partnership, S-Corp)?

As for individual income tax, residency and where the income is earned are the key points. You’re not a professional athlete filing 25 state/local tax returns but for instance MLB ball players with a reporting bonus are allowed to allocate that part to FL and avoid home state income tax. Not residents of the Sunshine state but the valid argument is where the income is earned.

I’m a CPA but 20+ years removed from being in the tax game. It’s worth a consultation if you don’t have an attorney or CPA on retainer.

Thank you for this.

 

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1 hour ago, johnnycakes said:

what are your long-term plans for the CA home?  Has it appreciated much? 

Bought it 3.5 years ago, up about 20%.  We plan to use it as a vacation home.

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If airport is there issue and mountains/ remote are the desire, then you may want to consider the blue ridge mountains of Georgia/NC.  

Atlanta airport is very close, the mountains are beautiful, and the price is right.

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17 hours ago, Shutout said:

If airport is there issue and mountains/ remote are the desire, then you may want to consider the blue ridge mountains of Georgia/NC.  

Atlanta airport is very close, the mountains are beautiful, and the price is right.

I love that area, but he also said dry. Isn't anything dry about the climate in the SE for several months per year. 

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20 hours ago, TripItUp said:

Alaska and Florida too far away and don't have ideal climates for us.

South Dakota and Wyoming have airport issues.   We both travel for work enough for airport to matter and require direct flights to most major cities.  Montana and Wyoming were initially considered but they lacked the flights we needed.  

 

 

 

Idaho? Specifically within an hour of Boise. 

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9 minutes ago, Poke_4_Life said:

Idaho? Specifically within an hour of Boise. 

Nampa should be right up his alley.  

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:black mf'ing dot:

Definitely want to be ready to pull the rip cord and bail the second this state starts to go belly up. Nevada is calling. 

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following.  i want to move to the mountains, asap.  but keep my house in socal.

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4 hours ago, Poke_4_Life said:

Idaho? Specifically within an hour of Boise. 

We love Idaho, but like Wyoming and Montana there appear to be limited flights to top 20 US cities.

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On 8/23/2020 at 12:45 PM, MAC_32 said:

I love that area, but he also said dry. Isn't anything dry about the climate in the SE for several months per year. 

Definitely have to contend with humidity, for sure.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/22/2020 at 4:32 PM, TripItUp said:

Bought it 3.5 years ago, up about 20%.  We plan to use it as a vacation home.

Why? If you travel for work that much are you really going to want to travel to CA that often? Also, if you have a lot of travel points built up I’d think being able to vacation anywhere would be easier and potentially less costly. You could invest that money saved and not have the hassle of maintaining a second home. Unless you planned to rent it out, I personally wouldn’t want to feel like I had to go to that home to feel like you are using it enough. It would be one thing if it was a drive away or the house is right on the beach, i.e. a real vacation home. If you’ve got to book flights, you aren’t going to just decide hey let’s go to the beach home or lake home or mountain home this weekend and it’s just packing a bag and leaving whenever you want and being there in a couple hours.

Sounds like a big hassle that you might not use as much as you want and if you force yourself to use it, not as fun as just going to a resort/spa for the weekend or week. If you end up using it a ton then the tax issue could be a problem. Good luck, but I’d throw my opinion on sell it, get the tax break on the gain/invest it and plan real resort vacations to anywhere you want including CA without any hassles.

Edited by stbugs

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On 8/23/2020 at 3:56 PM, TripItUp said:

We love Idaho, but like Wyoming and Montana there appear to be limited flights to top 20 US cities.

yep, not many direct flights at all.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/22/2020 at 3:43 PM, eoMMan said:

Wouldn't a tax attorney be a little overkill with all the information on the interwebz?

Why not just do like most Californians tired of taxes and move over to Nevada?

Attorney may or may not be overkill depending on how much $$$ we're talking here.  In my younger days, I worked for a very, very large family-owned real estate business; they had attorneys documenting alllll sorts of residency matters in order to maintain their tax residence in Florida.  Considering the overall family state tax savings compared to NY were ~8 figures annually, it's worth an attorney.

If he's comparatively a regular Joe who has good money but not extremely wealthy, a CPA experienced in these issues is probably fine.

Edited by Steve Tasker
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On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 2:01 PM, TripItUp said:

Looking for a Mountain West/cooler/dry climate with a major airport within an hour.  That leaves just Colorado and Utah.

There are Californians all over Colorado. Drives the rest of us nuts. :P

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29 minutes ago, Buckna said:

There are Californians all over Colorado. Drives the rest of us nuts. :P

yeah, we love Colorado too.

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Posted (edited)

Not with a black dot at all. This seems like another attempt by the OP to influence people towards his political disposition by passing off anecdotal evidence as evidence of a larger trend. As always, it's often suspect methodology, suspect facts, suspect everything.

And I tend conservative and know how taxes and regulation deter domicile and the like, but really...this is just another half-gassed, half-assed proselytizing thread disguised as info or concern.

No thanks. Just my two cents. 

eta* Normally I wouldn't do this, but the OP consistently does this both here and in the politics forum. In doing so, and in showing a completely limited understanding of the topics he's presenting, he presents not only an erroneous picture, but an easily refutable straw man for other people who would pooh-pooh important concerns to rebut. It gives a short shrift to those of us that have thought about it and provides fuel for those who would attempt to vanquish certain truths. 

Edited by rockaction
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1 hour ago, Buckna said:

There are Californians all over Colorado. Drives the rest of us nuts. :P

And Texans in the winter. 

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On 8/23/2020 at 10:05 AM, Poke_4_Life said:

Idaho? Specifically within an hour of Boise. 

Idaho? Unmasked Protesters Push Past Police Into Idaho Lawmakers' Session

In Boise, the first day of Idaho's special legislative session erupted into chaos before it began. Dozens of unmasked protesters, some of them armed, shoved their way past state troopers to pack the gallery overlooking the state's House of Representatives.

The clash was a manifestation of the anger and frustration from a vocal minority of far-right Idahoans that has been compounding over the last several months as the state has navigated its reopening amid the pandemic.

To enforce social distancing, the gallery area above the House chamber was restricted with limited seating. But after the confrontation with state troopers, which resulted in the shattering of a glass door, Republican House Speaker Scott Bedke relented and allowed protesters to fill every seat.

The response stands in stark contrast to 2014 when dozens of advocates pressuring lawmakers to pass LGBTQ protections were arrested for standing silently in a hallway, blocking access to the Idaho Senate chamber.

On Monday, an Idaho State Police spokeswoman, Lynn Hightower, said she wasn't aware of any pending charges against protesters. The following day she released a statement saying that "Idaho State Police personnel determined they could not have made arrests on the spot without elevating the potential for violence," and that an investigation was ongoing into any criminal behavior "that may have occurred."

Right now, Idaho has one of the highest rates of COVID-19 cases per capita, especially in Ada County, which includes the capital, Boise, according to the White House.

"I want to always try to avoid violence," Bedke later told The Associated Press. "My initial reaction, of course, was to clear the fourth floor. But we had room for at least some more."

He said he was more disappointed than surprised at the violence.

"I think we're better than that. I think that Idahoans expect more out of their citizens."

Protesters later made their way into committee rooms, defaced paper signs meant to leave one empty seat between those in the audience and laughed at one Democratic state lawmaker who refused to participate in the hearing because of the lack of social distancing.

The group of protesters included supporters of a far-right militia and anti-vaccine advocates who were at the Idaho Capitol to demand an end to the current state of emergency and blast a proposal that would limit civil liability for businesses, schools and governments.

The bill would also open up those entities to litigation if they don't follow laws and ordinances, including mask mandates issued by public health districts.

"The insanity of this bill is beyond me," said Boise resident Pam Hemphill, during a committee hearing Monday afternoon. "We don't stop our lives, suspend our civil rights and panic each year for the flu."

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say more than 176,000 Americans have died due the coronavirus in the first eight months of 2020, compared with an estimated 24,000 to 62,000 people who died last flu season.

Idaho Gov. Brad Little, a Republican, called the legislature into special session last week to take up civil liability issues as well as election concerns from county clerks. They want to be able to count the massive influx of absentee ballots earlier than they can now under state law and have the option to consolidate polling locations to deal with an extreme shortage of poll workers.

The special session is also the result of months of intense pressure and blowback from Little's own party.

One state lawmaker referred to the governor as "Little Hitler" after he ordered the shutdown of nonessential businesses in late March. His lieutenant governor, Janice McGeachin, who is elected separately and has ties to militia groups, has openly challenged Little's reopening push by visiting businesses that flouted those timelines and welcomed customers back earlier than allowed.

And legislators pressured Little to relinquish control over the state's coronavirus response to regional public health districts, even threatening to come after his executive authority in the future if he didn't comply.

Still, most Idahoans appear to stand by Little. An effort to recall the governor over the summer failed, and three-quarters of registered Idaho voters polled in May supported his handling of the pandemic.

State senators overwhelmingly passed two bills related to elections laws Monday, which still need approval from the House. Lawmakers will continue to debate civil liability issues this week.

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On 8/22/2020 at 4:06 PM, TripItUp said:

Alaska and Florida too far away and don't have ideal climates for us.

South Dakota and Wyoming have airport issues.   We both travel for work enough for airport to matter and require direct flights to most major cities.  Montana and Wyoming were initially considered but they lacked the flights we needed.  

 

 

 

Cheyenne and Laramie are about 2.5 hours from DIA. I used to drive down from Laramie all the time and it’s not a big deal imo. Both cities have their own airports, but I wouldn’t fly in or out of them. 

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44 minutes ago, EYLive said:

Idaho? Unmasked Protesters Push Past Police Into Idaho Lawmakers' Session

In Boise, the first day of Idaho's special legislative session erupted into chaos before it began. Dozens of unmasked protesters, some of them armed, shoved their way past state troopers to pack the gallery overlooking the state's House of Representatives.

The clash was a manifestation of the anger and frustration from a vocal minority of far-right Idahoans that has been compounding over the last several months as the state has navigated its reopening amid the pandemic.

To enforce social distancing, the gallery area above the House chamber was restricted with limited seating. But after the confrontation with state troopers, which resulted in the shattering of a glass door, Republican House Speaker Scott Bedke relented and allowed protesters to fill every seat.

The response stands in stark contrast to 2014 when dozens of advocates pressuring lawmakers to pass LGBTQ protections were arrested for standing silently in a hallway, blocking access to the Idaho Senate chamber.

On Monday, an Idaho State Police spokeswoman, Lynn Hightower, said she wasn't aware of any pending charges against protesters. The following day she released a statement saying that "Idaho State Police personnel determined they could not have made arrests on the spot without elevating the potential for violence," and that an investigation was ongoing into any criminal behavior "that may have occurred."

Right now, Idaho has one of the highest rates of COVID-19 cases per capita, especially in Ada County, which includes the capital, Boise, according to the White House.

"I want to always try to avoid violence," Bedke later told The Associated Press. "My initial reaction, of course, was to clear the fourth floor. But we had room for at least some more."

He said he was more disappointed than surprised at the violence.

"I think we're better than that. I think that Idahoans expect more out of their citizens."

Protesters later made their way into committee rooms, defaced paper signs meant to leave one empty seat between those in the audience and laughed at one Democratic state lawmaker who refused to participate in the hearing because of the lack of social distancing.

The group of protesters included supporters of a far-right militia and anti-vaccine advocates who were at the Idaho Capitol to demand an end to the current state of emergency and blast a proposal that would limit civil liability for businesses, schools and governments.

The bill would also open up those entities to litigation if they don't follow laws and ordinances, including mask mandates issued by public health districts.

"The insanity of this bill is beyond me," said Boise resident Pam Hemphill, during a committee hearing Monday afternoon. "We don't stop our lives, suspend our civil rights and panic each year for the flu."

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say more than 176,000 Americans have died due the coronavirus in the first eight months of 2020, compared with an estimated 24,000 to 62,000 people who died last flu season.

Idaho Gov. Brad Little, a Republican, called the legislature into special session last week to take up civil liability issues as well as election concerns from county clerks. They want to be able to count the massive influx of absentee ballots earlier than they can now under state law and have the option to consolidate polling locations to deal with an extreme shortage of poll workers.

The special session is also the result of months of intense pressure and blowback from Little's own party.

One state lawmaker referred to the governor as "Little Hitler" after he ordered the shutdown of nonessential businesses in late March. His lieutenant governor, Janice McGeachin, who is elected separately and has ties to militia groups, has openly challenged Little's reopening push by visiting businesses that flouted those timelines and welcomed customers back earlier than allowed.

And legislators pressured Little to relinquish control over the state's coronavirus response to regional public health districts, even threatening to come after his executive authority in the future if he didn't comply.

Still, most Idahoans appear to stand by Little. An effort to recall the governor over the summer failed, and three-quarters of registered Idaho voters polled in May supported his handling of the pandemic.

State senators overwhelmingly passed two bills related to elections laws Monday, which still need approval from the House. Lawmakers will continue to debate civil liability issues this week.

Need Rock to come in here for this one.

A handful of people from 30 miles away in a very small rural town did this.  

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6 hours ago, Osaurus said:

Cheyenne and Laramie are about 2.5 hours from DIA. I used to drive down from Laramie all the time and it’s not a big deal imo. Both cities have their own airports, but I wouldn’t fly in or out of them. 

Mountainous drive?

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Getzlaf15 said:

Need Rock to come in here for this one.

A handful of people from 30 miles away in a very small rural town did this.  

If that's referring to me, I'm not sure what to say. I have never been so disheartened as I have been witnessing how people in America have personally handled COVID. It's completely changed how I view modern politics and the state. Where those thoughts lead me is something I am very unsure of. What I do know is that people armed with bad information and an indignation about the state exercise of appropriate police power are seriously misguided about the proposed and enforced intrusions of the state into their daily lives. Forcing people to wear masks in businesses and public areas is not such an abridgement of rights that we have seen under police powers past, police powers we'd be unwilling to grant and unable to enforce today.

It used to be the police power at the municipal and state level was almost unquestioned by constituents and pandemic police powers saw officials using something of an iron hand to deal with pandemic outbreaks. Isolation, quarantine, and other forced movements were often required by states during the smallpox pandemic at the turn of the century and during the flu in the teens in America. Indeed, forced vaccinations for our own poor were often the standard and were undertaken under these very broad powers. Michael Willrich's Pox documents the smallpox pandemic and the legal and social fallout in great detail and is the definitive book about American pandemics in the Progressive Era at the turn of the century. In it, Willrich details the historical context, the operation of the state in response to the pandemic, and the citizen reaction to the police power undertaken. Suffice it to say that it culminates in a Supreme Court case about forcible vaccinations for citizens, largely tied to privileges that the states provided its citizenry. It is in the context of the urban and rural poor where we begin to see state abuses. Our poor urban and rural dwellers were the most vulnerable to state overreach. To wit, an excerpt:

"The Italians often welcomed health officials' efforts to improve their environment. In the summer of 1900...[the police] rolled onto Mott Street at the head of a "disinfecting party," equipped with two wagons carrying one hundred gallons of disinfectant. [Generally welcomed by the citizens,] sanitary inspectors, backed by eighty policemen (emphasis mine), moved through hallways, rooms, and cellars, pumping spray into every nook and across every surface they suspected of harboring germs. But when health department tactics collided with cherished cultural practices or the sanctity of the family, the officers encountered strong opposition. No action occasioned greater resistance than when authorities tried to remove an Italian child infected with tuberculosis or smallpox from her mother. Such experiences had convinced charity officials that Italian tenement mothers -- knowing little English and seemingly indifferent to modern hygiene -- posed a special threat to their own children and to the public health. 'With ignorance of that stamp,' said crusading reformer Jacob Riis, 'there is no argument other than force.' [As smallpox raged through the city in 1900 and 1901, many Italian residents were forcibly vaccinated]."

But that overreach is in drastic contrast to what is being asked of us today. What we have here is the urban and rural poor questioning the desirability of state shutdowns and measures that curtail liberties. But we are more civilized, so the question is somewhat less pressing and less drastic in terms of what is proposed and what is enforced, meaning that the civil liberties taken in extremis by certain portions of the population, something we've seen before in our history, doesn't necessarily match the situation at hand. Instead of forcible quarantine, we have voluntary hospitalizations. We have no vaccine, but we certainly are not forcing bad vaccines on our most vulnerable populations, something we did in 1901. Perhaps this proves our inefficacy in fighting COVID. Perhaps it is stupid. I truly thought wearing masks and keeping distance until the outbreak was under control or we have a vaccine was not too big a task to ask of us. But I was wrong. People are rebelling against the police power, but it is not as righteous as one would have been back when. We're protesting simple requests from well-meaning government officials trying desperately to balance liberty and efficacy and order. Part of this stems from people's misunderstanding of what the Constitution actually guarantees, part of it is due to the rights we accrue as citizens through the 14th and 5th Amendments via incorporation into state law. It's a minefield, to be sure. Any local agent using the police power granted expressly by the Constitutions must look at his or her own state's constitution and judge therefrom. My own two cents: Wear a mask and keep your distance. Otherwise, you're an #######. And don't test the state too much. The rights afforded us during this pandemic are extensive and new. Perhaps this is why we cannot fight the virus effectively. But it's something we should be grateful for, these less-than intrusive requests made upon ourselves by officials and health experts.

Edited by rockaction

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3 hours ago, DA RAIDERS said:

Mountainous drive?

Not really 

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6 hours ago, DA RAIDERS said:

Mountainous drive?

Cheyenne is a straight shot south down I25, maybe 1.5 hours to the Denver airport on a good day with no traffic. Laramie a little farther directly west of Cheyenne but mostly the same route. I25 runs parallel to the front range so nice views but not in the mountains at all.

Traffic can be real bad once in Denver and about halfway in between Denver & Colorado Springs if heading further south. Too much population growth the last 10 years, roads haven’t kept up.

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