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Pelosi says Biden Shouldn't debate Trump? (1 Viewer)

supermike80

supermike80

Footballguy
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/nancy-pelosi-donald-trump-joe-biden-debat-181815807.html

Ok what now? Wouldn't this be a great opportunity to wipe the floor with him on a national stage?  Do you board democrats see this as anything?  Or are you accepting Nancy's reasoning?

I am willing to accept there could be something to Joe being just not mentally up to the challenge.   And why is Kamala delivering the rebuttal to Trump's speech?  What the heck is going on here?

 
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supermike80 said:
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/nancy-pelosi-donald-trump-joe-biden-debat-181815807.html

Ok what now? Wouldn't this be a great opportunity to wipe the floor with him on a national stage?  Do you board democrats see this as anything?  Or are you accepting Nancy's reasoning?

I am willing to accept there could be something to Joe being just not mentally up to the challenge.   And why is Kamala delivering the rebuttal to Trump's speech?  What the heck is going on here?
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I agree with Pelosi that Trump should not be "legitimized".  I agree that Trump is going to make a mockery out of the debates.  I agree with Joe Biden's campaign that Joe Biden should confront the disgraceful behavior of this president head on by showing up for debates.

And if the "rebuttal' is an attack on Trump then that is a traditional role for the VP candidate.  To get muddy while the presidential candidate stay clean.

 
What now?  As has already been discussed Biden and his campaign have already stated they appreciate what Pelosi said about his character but that he is still going to debate.

I think Nancy was used to take a shot about it...and Biden was going to come out looking "strong" to people by saying...no, I will debate him and stand up to his behavior.

This notion that it has anything to do with Joe not being mentally up to the challenge is ridiculous and getting quite tired.

Kamala being used to be the more aggressive one speaking out against the other candidate while Joe tries to remain on message about what he will do.

 
Hey I don't know if it is related to Biden potentially having mental issues.  I was curious what you all thought.  I personally would enjoy the debates and I'm having a hard time understanding the logic behind it at all.  If you ask any one of you guys here, you all would say, without hesitation, that Biden would annihilate Trump in a debate.  Not to mention, the argument that Trump would make a mockery out of the debates helps democrats come election time doesn't it?

It isn't adding up.  I can think of eleventy billion reasons why if Biden truly is mentally fit, he can only benefit by debating Trump.  

And with ALL the talk about Biden being feeble, is it really a good political move to have Nancy take the shot and keep this conversation going?  I mean I would say no, but as I've said many times, I don't feel the democrats are very good at politics.  

Finally i will add, is it a good look for the democratic nominee to need some sort of toughness boost from the Speaker?   Can't he just say "Heck yeah Mr Trump, I'll debate you and I'll destroy you."  He needs Nancy to what...help him look tough?

There is no logic whatsoever for her to say this UNLESS the democrats truly are afraid to debate him, for some reason

 
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supermike80 said:
Hey I don't know if it is related to Biden potentially having mental issues.  I was curious what you all thought.  I personally would enjoy the debates and I'm having a hard time understanding the logic behind it at all.  If you ask any one of you guys here, you all would say, without hesitation, that Biden would annihilate Trump in a debate.  Not to mention, the argument that Trump would make a mockery out of the debates helps democrats come election time doesn't it?

It isn't adding up.  I can think of eleventy billion reasons why if Biden truly is mentally fit, he can only benefit by debating Trump.  
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Trump kicked the crap out of some high-level Republican candidates in the 2016 primary. He started the debates off by singling them out, going after them, and demolished them into pretenders on stage. Perhaps they're worried he'll do that to Joe. I don't think so, but it's possible. Those 2016 candidates may have been high-level, but they were all paper tigers.

Biden would indeed have a day with Trump, IMHO. But he'd need a fact checker.

 
rockaction said:
Trump kicked the crap out of some high-level Republican candidates in the 2016 primary. He started the debates off by singling them out, going after them, and demolished them into pretenders on stage. Perhaps they're worried he'll do that to Joe. I don't think so, but it's possible. Those 2016 candidates may have been high-level, but they were all paper tigers.
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That's not how I remember it at all.  I remember Trump doing his standard thing of name-calling and screaming RINO and Socialist.  Sure, his supporters eat that up, shout "nailed it!", and think it's what qualifies as mopping the floor with other candidates, but I think non-supporters don't much care for it.

 
unckeyherb said:
I wonder, if Trump proposed not debating Biden.  Would it just be written off as simply trolling Pelosi or Biden?  Or would it be characterized as an affront to democracy?  
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An affront to democracy. I'm not voting for Trump. Loathe him. But the double standards are apparent and easy to see through. 

 
unckeyherb said:
I wonder, if Trump proposed not debating Biden.  Would it just be written off as simply trolling Pelosi or Biden?  Or would it be characterized as an affront to democracy?  
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Considering being behind in polling, and the candidate making such a proposal vs Pelosi who I don't believe is an actual part of the Biden campaign...yeah, Id say it would come off quite different.

 
sho nuff said:
No...if McConnell proposed it people would criticize him...especially if Trump then immediately states he would participate as Biden has done.
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No chance.  It would get melded into Trump trying to circumvent democracy.  It would be discussed as nauseum on every news channel by 6 person panels all agreeing that this is how a dictator operates.  

 
unckeyherb said:
No chance.  It would get melded into Trump trying to circumvent democracy.  It would be discussed as nauseum on every news channel by 6 person panels all agreeing that this is how a dictator operates.  
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Ok cool...hypotheticals and assumptions.  Good stuff.

 
rockaction said:
unckeyherb said:
I wonder, if Trump proposed not debating Biden.  Would it just be written off as simply trolling Pelosi or Biden?  Or would it be characterized as an affront to democracy?  
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An affront to democracy. I'm not voting for Trump. Loathe him. But the double standards are apparent and easy to see through. 
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I for one would laud it.   The less Trump speaks the better.  Anyone over the age of seven knows exactly how this debate would go.  

 
supermike80 said:
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/nancy-pelosi-donald-trump-joe-biden-debat-181815807.html

Ok what now? Wouldn't this be a great opportunity to wipe the floor with him on a national stage?  Do you board democrats see this as anything?  Or are you accepting Nancy's reasoning?

I am willing to accept there could be something to Joe being just not mentally up to the challenge.   And why is Kamala delivering the rebuttal to Trump's speech?  What the heck is going on here?
Click to expand...
I think Trump would come out on top of Joe in a debate, not because Joe isn’t mentally up to the challenge, but because Trump is naturally better at zingers, insulting people and contemporaneous speaking which is how a lot of people judge debates. In the primaries, the people who were deemed to have performed the best were those who were aggressive in attacking their opponents, not those who explained their policy positions the best or who were the most unifying in their message. Trump has the clear advantage in the debates for that reason, in my opinion, which is why I think there is some discussion that maybe Biden shouldn’t do them. 

 
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serious question: 

what is the role of a "fact-checker on the floor"? is this person going to fact-check every statement in real time and then interrupt either candidate when something is untrue? will they wait until a commercial break and then lead the next segment with any/all false statements? 

 
Quint said:
serious question: 

what is the role of a "fact-checker on the floor"? is this person going to fact-check every statement in real time and then interrupt either candidate when something is untrue? will they wait until a commercial break and then lead the next segment with any/all false statements? 
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Think they summarize at the end?

 
supermike80 said:
Think they summarize at the end?
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sure, that's possible. just seems kinda pointless if the purpose is to show  candidates delivering untrue statements while the debate is taking place. otherwise, it's just going to be talking heads on various channels saying "He lied about this" and "He lied about that". if the words are spoken and go unchallenged at the time they're said, then it's like any other debate. 

 
whatever the first question is, Biden answers:

"Your entire convention was terrible footage of 'what America will look like if I win', but all of that is happening right now under you".

drops mic.  walks off.

 
bigbottom said:
I think Trump would come out on top of Joe in a debate, not because Joe isn’t mentally up to the challenge, but because Trump is naturally better at zingers, insulting people and contemporaneous speaking which is how a lot of people judge debates. In the primaries, the people who were deemed to have performed the best were those who were aggressive in attacking their opponents, not those who explained their policy positions the best or who were the most unifying in their message. Trump has the clear advantage in the debates for that reason, in my opinion, which is why I think there is some discussion that maybe Biden shouldn’t do them. 
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No, I think it's different now.  In 2016, Trump had no political history ...his opponents had no retort.  Now, Biden has almost four years of data points to work with.  Health care?  "You promised over and over to repeal ADA on day one and replace it.  We're still waiting."  Border security?  "You insisted that you'd build a wall and Mexico would pay for it.  You haven't built much of a wall, and Mexico hasn't paid a dime.  Oh, and how about your buddy Bannon and the charges against him?"  Covid?  "The U.S. is an outlier, in a negative way, for its trend lines on Covid.  It didn't go away.  Bleach doesn't help.  You haven't supported the science.  Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died, and your response is 'it is what it is.'"  Race relations?  "You didn't condemn the white supremacists in Charlottesville; you haven't spoken out on <fill in the name>, etc."  Leadership: "I quote your words, 'I don't take responsibility.'"  Work ethic: "You said you wouldn't have time for golf ..."

Trump will just look back and give his half smile and raise his eyebrows.  But then what?  He can't walk off the stage.  He can't debate.  He can't defend himself in a coherent way.  Joe just needs to keep his responses short and on point.  I expect Trump will do his own self-inflicted damage. 

And then there's former prosecutor Harris against Pence ...  

 
I posted this in the other thread but I think Biden should place all kinds of demands on Donald.

Things like fact check, release his tax returns, etc. All things Biden would do.

None of these things even need to happen it just make Trump look like a chump when it doesn't happen.

 
  • Smile
Reactions: Ned
tri-man 47 said:
No, I think it's different now.  In 2016, Trump had no political history ...his opponents had no retort.  Now, Biden has almost four years of data points to work with.  Health care?  "You promised over and over to repeal ADA on day one and replace it.  We're still waiting."  Border security?  "You insisted that you'd build a wall and Mexico would pay for it.  You haven't built much of a wall, and Mexico hasn't paid a dime.  Oh, and how about your buddy Bannon and the charges against him?"  Covid?  "The U.S. is an outlier, in a negative way, for its trend lines on Covid.  It didn't go away.  Bleach doesn't help.  You haven't supported the science.  Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died, and your response is 'it is what it is.'"  Race relations?  "You didn't condemn the white supremacists in Charlottesville; you haven't spoken out on <fill in the name>, etc."  Leadership: "I quote your words, 'I don't take responsibility.'"  Work ethic: "You said you wouldn't have time for golf ..."

Trump will just look back and give his half smile and raise his eyebrows.  But then what?  He can't walk off the stage.  He can't debate.  He can't defend himself in a coherent way.  Joe just needs to keep his responses short and on point.  I expect Trump will do his own self-inflicted damage. 

And then there's former prosecutor Harris against Pence ...  
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I hope you’re right, but I don’t think it will play out that way.

 
Quint said:
serious question: 

what is the role of a "fact-checker on the floor"? is this person going to fact-check every statement in real time and then interrupt either candidate when something is untrue? will they wait until a commercial break and then lead the next segment with any/all false statements? 
Click to expand...
In practice this wouldn't work well.

Just be the first person to say you agree to it. That is classic Trump maneuver. 

 
rockaction said:
Biden would indeed have a day with Trump, IMHO. But he'd need a fact checker.
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How do you arrive at this conclusion?      It makes no difference how factual Biden would be, nor how much empathy he expresses, a debate stage in a presidential debate in 2020 is now savage territory.     It plays into Trump's personality, his ego, and everything about him.       How on earth would Biden "have a day"?

 
bigbottom said:
I think Trump would come out on top of Joe in a debate, not because Joe isn’t mentally up to the challenge, but because Trump is naturally better at zingers, insulting people and contemporaneous speaking which is how a lot of people judge debates. In the primaries, the people who were deemed to have performed the best were those who were aggressive in attacking their opponents, not those who explained their policy positions the best or who were the most unifying in their message. Trump has the clear advantage in the debates for that reason, in my opinion, which is why I think there is some discussion that maybe Biden shouldn’t do them. 
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His zingers are so corny.

I don't get how people think he's good at this :lol:

 
spodog said:
How do you arrive at this conclusion?      It makes no difference how factual Biden would be, nor how much empathy he expresses, a debate stage in a presidential debate in 2020 is now savage territory.     It plays into Trump's personality, his ego, and everything about him.       How on earth would Biden "have a day"?
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I think if he were able to retain his composure, which Biden has problems doing sometimes, that Trump's lack of grasp of factual and theoretical matters would put him at a severe disadvantage. Perhaps I'm old school, but I'd like to think that substance will supersede attacks and savagery. Biden's clearly a better speaker, though these days his extemporaneous and off-the-cuff musings aren't suiting him well.

Perhaps I'm wrong. It's just an opinion on a message board coming from one dude not disposed to like the President.

 
rockaction said:
I think if he were able to retain his composure, which Biden has problems doing sometimes, that Trump's lack of grasp of factual and theoretical matters would put him at a severe disadvantage. Perhaps I'm old school, but I'd like to think that substance will supersede attacks and savagery. Biden's clearly a better speaker, though these days his extemporaneous and off-the-cuff musings aren't suiting him well.

Perhaps I'm wrong. It's just an opinion on a message board coming from one dude not disposed to like the President.
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Well, we all deserve to see how it will play out.    There are 3 on the calendar, but maneuvers have started to find reasons for Biden to back out of them.    If they don't occur, it will be the first time since the 1972 election with no Presidential debates.    

 
spodog said:
How do you arrive at this conclusion?      It makes no difference how factual Biden would be, nor how much empathy he expresses, a debate stage in a presidential debate in 2020 is now savage territory.     It plays into Trump's personality, his ego, and everything about him.       How on earth would Biden "have a day"?
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Yeah, I have to agree here. Debate performance these days is about how much you beat up the other candidate. Just go back to the Democratic primary debates. Look up who everyone was saying had the “best night” after each debate. Almost without exception, they were the candidates who were the most aggressive in going after others on the stage. That plays to Trump’s strengths. He’s ruthlessly combative, will say anything and has no absolutely no shame. Honestly, in today’s modern politics, Trump is a great political candidate. He is a genius at branding himself, he inspires both loyalty and enthusiasm in his supporters by giving them precisely what they want every time he takes the stage. Now, he is a pretty horrible president, and he now has that baggage to deal with, but purely as a candidate, he’s pretty exceptional. And I don’t buy the premise that his 2016 primary opponents were paper tigers. Those were legit candidates and he did indeed wipe the floor with them. 

 
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     Trumps supporters what Trump to do nothing more than clown the debate up.  I'd imagine Biden supporters are looking for more a return to respectability.  To that...it's not always good to get into conflict with people like Trump.  Biden could just win the troll debate by saying "AMORONSAYSWHAT?" everytime Trump tries to mix it up with him.....Trump would fall for it.....but Biden supporters wouldn't view that favorably.

  Since they're not really debates and instead are just basically Q&As with a moderator with another guy on stage.....I'd imagine would be better served by freezing Trump out when Trump wants to get into the mud.  

 
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sho nuff said:
What now?  As has already been discussed Biden and his campaign have already stated they appreciate what Pelosi said about his character but that he is still going to debate.

I think Nancy was used to take a shot about it...and Biden was going to come out looking "strong" to people by saying...no, I will debate him and stand up to his behavior.

This notion that it has anything to do with Joe not being mentally up to the challenge is ridiculous and getting quite tired.

Kamala being used to be the more aggressive one speaking out against the other candidate while Joe tries to remain on message about what he will do.
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No, it’s not ridiculous. It’s a legitimate concern. I personally don’t think he’s all there. 

 
T J said:
No, it’s not ridiculous. It’s a legitimate concern. I personally don’t think he’s all there. 
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And the same again has been said about Trump.

I think the notion is based mostly on his issues with speech vs actual cognitive issues

 
Is there really anyone out there undecided? Barring something unforseen, I think you could have the election today and the results would be the same as they will be in November - either way with a very slim difference in percentages. That said, I also think a debate can only hurt Biden, not help, but also that he should be required to. All of this nothing more than opinion. 

 
sho nuff said:
And the same again has been said about Trump.

I think the notion is based mostly on his issues with speech vs actual cognitive issues
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Trump’s nuts but in a different way I think. I’ve always felt that a vote for Biden is the same as a vote for his running mate, whoever that was going to be, as I don’t think he’ll finish his term. And yes, I’m not voting for him but I think he’s winning. 

 
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