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2020 NBA Playoffs Thread - Haters arguing that it took Lebron 10 Finals to win 4 titles

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2 hours ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

I haven't had a chance to really fully analyze the Nuggets vs Lakers series--but my initial thoughts are that Denver seems to roll the best when their team defense is on point.   So far--when their backs are against the wall--it seems as though they find a way to create a spark through stepping up their team defense, and then their offense kinda gains momentum from that energy.   I don't think they can really contain AD or Lebron defending individually--they need to collectively make life difficult for them by being on point with their defensive rotations. They do have different guys they can throw at AD and Bron--Harris is undersized--but I think we'll see him on Bron a bit, you also have Jerami Grant, Torrey Craig, Milsap, Plumlee all taking turns between Bron and Davis.   Bron and AD should get theirs--but the key is to limit their efficiency and to force the other Lakers to be the deciding factors.   If Murray and Jokic can basically match or do close to  what Lebron and AD do (assuming all of their efficiencies are similar)--you gotta like Denver's chances because they have a better supporting cast. 

On paper--it looks as though the Lakers have the size to match up well against Jokic--but I do think there is a certain level of fool's gold there.  Jokic is not a typical big man who has to dominate the inside to be effective.  He literally brings the ball up the court and forces bigs to play him outside.  His craftiness, range, and court vision is not something that typical defensive big men are super successful defending against.   For example--against Rudy Gobert in the first round (and Gobert is a better defending big than howard, McGee)--Jokic averaged more than 26pts per game.   If they dare put Anthony Davis on him--the Lakers risk getting him in foul trouble.   Davis is probably the best guy the Lakers have to defend against him but using him for that purpose for long periods is very risky.   

Honestly----its a hard series to analyze.  If Murray stays hot--I think we'll have some competive games.   I think Jokic will be consistently good.   My gut instinct is Lakers in 6---but I would not be shocked at all to see Denver pull this thing off.  Much like Miami--they are playing hungry, and they have undoubtedly have sneaky good talent.   The porter jr vs kuzma aspect could also be something to watch.   Both of those guys could be potential sparks for their teams.  

I imagine you'll see a lot of Javale McGee and Dwight Howard on Jokic for the 1st 3 quarters or so. I've seen Vogel go away from that on occasion, letting Davis take quality bigs early in the game, and it always results in early foul trouble for Davis. Hopefully Vogel has learned from that.

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1 hour ago, Gr00vus said:

I imagine you'll see a lot of Javale McGee and Dwight Howard on Jokic for the 1st 3 quarters or so. I've seen Vogel go away from that on occasion, letting Davis take quality bigs early in the game, and it always results in early foul trouble for Davis. Hopefully Vogel has learned from that.

Yeah, with as much flailing and head-snapping Jokic does, Laker bigs need to be disciplined.

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5 minutes ago, Chris B. said:

Yeah, with as much flailing and head-snapping Jokic does, Laker bigs need to be disciplined.

Disciplined, synonymous with Dwight Howard. :oldunsure:

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It's only a few minutes into game 1 and Jokic is already whining for fouls? I thought Murray was the designated cry-baby. If both guys are going to shed tears like entitled children, this series is going to be painful to watch.

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8 hours ago, Chris B. said:

I really felt the refs constant whistles were what allowed the Nuggets to stop the clock and shoot free throws against the Clippers to help them come back in several games. If you want this series to be physical, LBJ, AD, and Howard are going mow Denver down. Denver needs lots of touch fouls to be called in their favor.

umm, it's the lakers and it's the playoffs. the officials are the least of your worries. 

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Nuggets have no prayer of defending Davis and the Lakers have plenty of bodies to throw at jokic. I don't see how this series goes past 5 games unless 3 point shooting is HEAVILY in favor of Denver

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On 9/17/2020 at 11:03 PM, Boston said:

they have to hope to do something. i think if they are going to win a championship with their current line-up, this year has to be their best chance. SIxers are a literal dumpster fire, but that doesn't take away the potential they do have and if they get the right coach the team should be ok. Not sure what they do in Milwaukee, but if they want to keep Giannis they need to figure something out. But Giannis isn't getting worse either. 

and this Heat team looks to be something at least for the next year, maybe 2. So if the C's can't win the East this year, i don't know if they can do it without some changes to some of their core pieces. All of their assets are drying up after this year, so it will be interesting to see what they choose to do if the Heat beat them 

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I'd be concerned if the Celtics WEREN'T screaming at each other. They'll be fine, no need to freak out.

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17 minutes ago, AndrewClark said:

LeBron whining about mvp voting totals in the middle of the playoffs? 

Reporter asked him how he felt about it.  “Pissed me off.  That’s my true answer.”  Then he said he’d have a glass of wine and sleep well.  I appreciate his honesty but maybe others would prefer that he give some canned response then complain about it 25 years later in a documentary.

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6 minutes ago, Synthesizer said:

Reporter asked him how he felt about it.  “Pissed me off.  That’s my true answer.”  Then he said he’d have a glass of wine and sleep well.  I appreciate his honesty but maybe others would prefer that he give some canned response then complain about it 25 years later in a documentary.

You're not wrong. 

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The celtics inability to finish is scary

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Looks like the The Bengals/Browns took it to the NBA grabbing 2x the viewership.  Trump and Fox also beat them out and Biden and CNN were in a dead heat.  Team Trump/Biden were 2x up on the NBA.  NBA desperately needs Lebron to make the finals to salvage the season.

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Finally closed one out (barely). Seemed like Boston dominated the majority of the game, but Miami keeps jacking in 3s and getting loose ball rebounds.

I was guessing they'd win this one just based on sheer desperation. If they can get Hayward back to like 80% of his pre-injury self, they have a real shot to pull out the series.  I think they would have won at least one of the first two games with him.

:popcorn:

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14 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Looks like the The Bengals/Browns took it to the NBA grabbing 2x the viewership.  Trump and Fox also beat them out and Biden and CNN were in a dead heat.  Team Trump/Biden were 2x up on the NBA.  NBA desperately needs Lebron to make the finals to salvage the season.

They need the Celtics too.  A Lakers/Celtics final would be far more appealing to the casual fan than Lakers/Heat, but I don't think the NBA post-David Stern is as blatant about having the refs call games certain ways to influence results, so whatever happens, happens.

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32 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Looks like the The Bengals/Browns took it to the NBA grabbing 2x the viewership.  Trump and Fox also beat them out and Biden and CNN were in a dead heat.  Team Trump/Biden were 2x up on the NBA.  NBA desperately needs Lebron to make the finals to salvage the season.

I don't think there is a way to salvage the season in regards to viewership.  People that are watching the NBA now will watch the finals regardless of who is in it.   I don't think any one team is going to change viewership that much at this point in time.  The lockdown introduced a lot of people to a lot of content that they were not familiar with beforehand.  Non hardcore fans can just get the results of a basketball game by googling it or watching 3 minutes of highlights after the game ends.  They can't really do that with a podcast or a show on Netflix.  On top of that--people have lots on their minds and sitting down for 2-3 hours to watch a sporting event is just not as appealing to some casual fans as it may have been before.  The NFL ratings haven't been killing it either and they have diminished moderately as well.  Regardless of ratings--I still think the NBA has done a nice job doing what they can to work under the circumstances.  The product is looking good and is entertaining enough to watch for the more hardcore basketball fans. 

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22 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

They need the Celtics too.  A Lakers/Celtics final would be far more appealing to the casual fan than Lakers/Heat, but I don't think the NBA post-David Stern is as blatant about having the refs call games certain ways to influence results, so whatever happens, happens.

Interesting.  Does local market size dwarf storyline?

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6 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

 NBA desperately needs Lebron to make the finals to salvage the season.

seems like this is the nba's mindset as well. 24 free throws in the 2nd quarter alone to kickstart a big lead last game.

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12 hours ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

I don't think there is a way to salvage the season in regards to viewership.  People that are watching the NBA now will watch the finals regardless of who is in it.   I don't think any one team is going to change viewership that much at this point in time.  The lockdown introduced a lot of people to a lot of content that they were not familiar with beforehand.  Non hardcore fans can just get the results of a basketball game by googling it or watching 3 minutes of highlights after the game ends.  They can't really do that with a podcast or a show on Netflix.  On top of that--people have lots on their minds and sitting down for 2-3 hours to watch a sporting event is just not as appealing to some casual fans as it may have been before.  The NFL ratings haven't been killing it either and they have diminished moderately as well.  Regardless of ratings--I still think the NBA has done a nice job doing what they can to work under the circumstances.  The product is looking good and is entertaining enough to watch for the more hardcore basketball fans. 

I would be surprised if the vast majority of the ratings decline wasn't directly attributable to the unrestrained political onslaught viewers are getting during games.  I know of a handful of serious basketball fans that are refusing to watch the NBA for that reason alone.

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F'n Davis.

Jokic was money, that was heartbreaking for Denver.

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What a game.  Felt like Denver had that one. I posted earlier that if Murray and Joker can effectively neutralize AD and lebron that you gotta like Denvers chances.   Tonight was theirs if it wasn't for a great shot by AD.  Joker even did a decent job closing out on him.  I picked the Lakers in 6 when it started--and I think I'm still going to stand by that.   

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Jokic made two huge plays to tie the series for the Nuggets...and then AD hits the game winner at the buzzer.  Unreal, clutch shot.  AD needs that as much as anybody.  Came up biggest when the Lakers needed it, scoring the last 10 points for LA.  Big time performance.

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Great shot by AD!! Credit where credit is due. 

I am just hoping this was THAT game where Denver can build off of and make a run now. I was worried LA was going to dominate, but tonight showed they are vulnerable. 

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22 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

I would be surprised if the vast majority of the ratings decline wasn't directly attributable to the unrestrained political onslaught viewers are getting during games.  I know of a handful of serious basketball fans that are refusing to watch the NBA for that reason alone.

This is for sure true. I know some people that aren't watching sports because of it.  I'm only speaking in regards to the people that I personally know--but those same people tend to be the type that are very vocal and have no problem exposing their own political views. I don't think it's the "political onslaught" by itself that is driving down viewership--its just that the politics being shown by the players is not perfectly in line with what their personal beliefs are.  I feel bad for them as they are missing out on some great games.  What AD and Joker did tonight at the end of the game was special. 

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2 minutes ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

I feel bad for them as they are missing out on some great games.  What AD and Joker did tonight at the end of the game was special. 

you aren't kidding, dude

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7 minutes ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

This is for sure true. I know some people that aren't watching sports because of it.  I'm only speaking in regards to the people that I personally know--but those same people tend to be the type that are very vocal and have no problem exposing their own political views. I don't think it's the "political onslaught" by itself that is driving down viewership--its just that the politics being shown by the players is not perfectly in line with what their personal beliefs are.  I feel bad for them as they are missing out on some great games.  What AD and Joker did tonight at the end of the game was special. 

The same "patriots" that bashed Kaepernick for kneeling? Those dinosaurs can't go extinct fast enough.

Anyway, I'm not loving how ineffective Kuzma is.

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8 minutes ago, Chris B. said:

The same "patriots" that bashed Kaepernick for kneeling? Those dinosaurs can't go extinct fast enough.

Anyway, I'm not loving how ineffective Kuzma is.

Kuzma was terrible tonight.  He needs to learn how to dribble and catch the ball.  His decision-making at both ends was poor.

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17 minutes ago, The Kansas Comet said:

Kuzma was terrible tonight.  He needs to learn how to dribble and catch the ball.  His decision-making at both ends was poor.

Kuzma's play all year has surprised me.  He seemed poised to be the third banana to LBJ and AD but has been nothing more than an inconsistent bench player.

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1 minute ago, Jayrod said:

Kuzma's play all year has surprised me.  He seemed poised to be the third banana to LBJ and AD but has been nothing more than an inconsistent bench player.

Pretty much.  His defense has been a lot better in the bubble, but his offense has regressed from his rookie year.  Part of it may be how he is used, but part of it is his shot not getting better.  He's a pretty good cutter, but doesn't do it much (or get to do it much - not sure what the coaches ask him to do) and he has become pretty soft going to the basket.  He seems to almost avoid contact to get his shot off instead of attacking and drawing fouls.  I do appreciate his hustle up the court to get behind the defense from time to time, since the Laker offense can use every easy bucket it can get.  I expect Pelinka to explore his trade value this off-season.

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47 minutes ago, The Kansas Comet said:

Kuzma was terrible tonight.  He needs to learn how to dribble and catch the ball.  His decision-making at both ends was poor.

Kuzma seemed lost tonight. Caruso and Porter Jr. I felt both provided sparks for their teams. Also- the play of Rondo has impressed me. It’s not so much his numbers- it just seems like he provides the Lakers with a level of steadiness.   Going back to the Denver side; that Dozier kid showed some flashes. I need to look into him as I frankly didnt know much about him at all. 

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10 hours ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

Going back to the Denver side; that Dozier kid showed some flashes. I need to look into him as I frankly didnt know much about him at all. 

Dozier was a big part of the South Carolina squad that went to the Final Four a few years back. That was his sophomore year and he declared for the draft after that run. Not a wise move as he didn't get drafted and has mostly bounced around the G league the last 3 years. Apparently, he has been working hard on his craft to get this opportunity.

I've always thought he had good length and handling, but an inconsistent shot.

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12 hours ago, dawgtrails said:

WTF was Plumlee doing on that play :lmao:

 

there was a video on twitter showing before the play that Grant is telling Plumlee to help him with Lebron, so Plumlee seemed to think that he just needed to go over and double him.

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Just now, Long Ball Larry said:

there was a video on twitter showing before the play that Grant is telling Plumlee to help him with Lebron, so Plumlee seemed to think that he just needed to go over and double him.

It was such a bad play though. Lebron is just standing there, and Plumlee decided to just run into Lebron for no reason. All while AD is just jogging to the 3 point line. I can see the switch if there was an actual pick on the play, but AD ran like 6 feet wide of Lebron

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2 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

It was such a bad play though. Lebron is just standing there, and Plumlee decided to just run into Lebron for no reason. All while AD is just jogging to the 3 point line. I can see the switch if there was an actual pick on the play, but AD ran like 6 feet wide of Lebron

i don't know why plumlee thought that was the right thing to do, just saying that's what grant was telling him.  Although watching it again today, grant seems much less demonstrative than I had remembered.

https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1307868969169301506

I don't know exactly what grant was saying, but it didn't seem like he was saying that plumlee had to come right over there while lebron just stands there.

 

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And either way Plumleee should have been like "Grant, you crazy man. There are 2 seconds left I am sticking on my man"

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31 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

It was such a bad play though. Lebron is just standing there, and Plumlee decided to just run into Lebron for no reason. All while AD is just jogging to the 3 point line. I can see the switch if there was an actual pick on the play, but AD ran like 6 feet wide of Lebron

This.  Horrible defense.

Malone loves him some Plumlee...much, much more than his play consistently warrants.  Plumlee may be underrated from an athletic and skill standpoint, but he makes poor decisions on the court and consistently attempts to do more than he's capable of.  He's a decent passer, but he'll start thinking he's Jokic and turn the ball over.  He can block shots and move his feet okay, but he starts thinking he's Bam and he'll commit unnecessary fouls on a regular basis.  This is the same thing you'll see on Portland with Mario Hezonja.

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8 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Horford to the Rockets for Gordon and change rumor floating around out there.  

That deal is so weird. They dump a great young big in Capela and now are turning around and trading decently viable assets for an older and less effective big? Maybe they have some sort of macro plan and this might be the first move of more to come. 

 

On a a side note- am I the only one that felt like no game last night felt weird? I wonder how both teams react to the change in rhythm and longer than usual lay-off between games.

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30 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Horford to the Rockets for Gordon and change rumor floating around out there.  

i just got a tingle.

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26 minutes ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

That deal is so weird. They dump a great young big in Capela and now are turning around and trading decently viable assets for an older and less effective big? Maybe they have some sort of macro plan and this might be the first move of more to come. 

 

On a a side note- am I the only one that felt like no game last night felt weird? I wonder how both teams react to the change in rhythm and longer than usual lay-off between games.

I was checking for scores this morning thinking that I forgot to watch the Heat last night.

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