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2020 NBA Playoffs Thread - Haters arguing that it took Lebron 10 Finals to win 4 titles

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1 hour ago, The Z Machine said:

Next up is the Dodgers to get their first since 1988, right @timschochet?

I’m an Angels fan. I used to love the Dodgers. In fact I was at the Kirk Gibson game! But now I’m indifferent to them, I want to see Mike Trout get a ring, somehow. 

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

I’m an Angels fan. I used to love the Dodgers. In fact I was at the Kirk Gibson game! But now I’m indifferent to them, I want to see Mike Trout get a ring, somehow. 

BOOOOOOOOO

Los Doyers 4 Lyfe

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Hey, Remember when DeAngelo Russell ratted out Swaggy P, Timofey Mozgof and Lulol Deng were getting paid tens of millions of dollars, the Lakers used the #2 overall pick on Lonzo Ball, and the Lakers didn't make the playoffs for like 9 years?

I don't. ;)

 

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9 hours ago, timschochet said:

5 in Minneapolis, 6 in Inglewood, 5 in Los Angeles, 1 in The Bubble. All Lakers. 

Then why don't the Lakers have George Mikan's number hanging from the rafters?  ...because he has nothing to do with Los Angeles, nor should the titles he led Minneapolis to.  Get real.  OKC doesn't get to claim the SuperSonics title either.

Sorry, LA basketball now has 12 titles.

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57 minutes ago, trader jake said:

Then why don't the Lakers have George Mikan's number hanging from the rafters?  ...because he has nothing to do with Los Angeles, nor should the titles he led Minneapolis to.  Get real.  OKC doesn't get to claim the SuperSonics title either.

Sorry, LA basketball now has 12 titles.

They should change their name back to the Super Sonics and then claim that title.

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8 hours ago, cockroach said:

Speaking of off-season, when do they start again?   The next season would be about to start right now.  

TBD.  My guess is that they will start around February.  Pretty sure that Christmas was the original goal but that is now off the table.

Here is what Silver said last week: NBA commissioner Adam Silver spoke to the media and said, “The 2020-21 NBA season would start around Christmas at its earliest but is much more likely to commence in January of 2021.”

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16 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

TBD.  My guess is that they will start around February.  Pretty sure that Christmas was the original goal but that is now off the table.

Here is what Silver said last week: NBA commissioner Adam Silver spoke to the media and said, “The 2020-21 NBA season would start around Christmas at its earliest but is much more likely to commence in January of 2021.”

I don’t know what they or hockey are going to do about attendance. Particularly hockey since they need fans to play, their tv contract isn’t enough to go without them. Does anybody really think we are going to have even 10,000 fans in an indoor arena by February? Outside I can sort of see, but that obviously doesn’t work for these two sports. 

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21 minutes ago, Capella said:

I don’t know what they or hockey are going to do about attendance. Particularly hockey since they need fans to play, their tv contract isn’t enough to go without them. Does anybody really think we are going to have even 10,000 fans in an indoor arena by February? Outside I can sort of see, but that obviously doesn’t work for these two sports. 

Maybe hockey could figure out some way to conduct a decent amount of the season in outdoor venues. I don't know if their once a season outdoor game can scale to cover it, but at least they've done it a few times recently.

I don't know how you'd work outdoor basketball across the country in winter though. I don't think a zamboni to clear snow off hardwood would turn out well. Otherwise we're looking at like 200 mop kids a game.

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19 hours ago, trader jake said:

Congratulations to all the Lakers fans.  Great season and a bubble title.

Now quit counting the championships the team won in Minnesota.  It's non-sensical.

So they get to keep the name, but can't count the titles?

:crazy:

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3 hours ago, trader jake said:

Then why don't the Lakers have George Mikan's number hanging from the rafters?  ...because he has nothing to do with Los Angeles, nor should the titles he led Minneapolis to.  Get real.  OKC doesn't get to claim the SuperSonics title either.

Sorry, LA basketball now has 12 titles.

Sorry, Lakers basketball now has 17 titles.

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11 minutes ago, bryhamm said:

Sorry, Lakers basketball now has 17 titles.

 

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The entire team moved from Minneapolis to LA right? So it was (more or less) the same players from one year to the next? 

If so it's a ridiculous argument to claim those titles don't belong to the same franchise. 

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3 hours ago, trader jake said:

Then why don't the Lakers have George Mikan's number hanging from the rafters?  ...because he has nothing to do with Los Angeles, nor should the titles he led Minneapolis to.  Get real.  OKC doesn't get to claim the SuperSonics title either.

Sorry, LA basketball now has 12 titles.

Next time just link the Simmons podcast where he made these same points. Not to mention that being on the same side as him on this isn't a good sign. 

The entire team moved from Minneapolis to LA right? So it was (more or less) the same players from one year to the next? 

If so it's a ridiculous argument to claim those titles don't belong to the same franchise.

 

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43 minutes ago, RUSF18 said:

Next time just link the Simmons podcast where he made these same points. Not to mention that being on the same side as him on this anything isn't a good sign. 

The entire team moved from Minneapolis to LA right? So it was (more or less) the same players from one year to the next? 

If so it's a ridiculous argument to claim those titles don't belong to the same franchise.

 

ftfy

In the same podcast he argued the Chiefs shouldn't rush CEH inside because he's "like 5'2" 170 lbs."  :mellow:   Moron.

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7 hours ago, RUSF18 said:

Next time just link the Simmons podcast where he made these same points. Not to mention that being on the same side as him on this isn't a good sign. 

The entire team moved from Minneapolis to LA right? So it was (more or less) the same players from one year to the next? 

If so it's a ridiculous argument to claim those titles don't belong to the same franchise.

 

This.  The titles don't belong to the city--they belong to the franchise.   We certainly are all guilty of associating certain cities with certain franchises--but that's something that we choose to do.  That dynamic doesn't allow us to change history or the terms of how championships are counted.  

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To me this is pretty simple, keep the nickname, keep the history.  Lose the nickname when you move, lose the history.  Change nickname but remain in city, keep the history.

Lakers -> Lakers = 17 titles for the franchise

Cleveland Browns -> Baltimore Ravens = 8 titles for the Browns, 2 titles for the Ravens

Houston Oilers -> Tennessee Titans = 2 titles for Oilers (AFL), 0 titles for Titans

Washington Bullets -> Washington Wizards = 1 title for the franchise

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20 hours ago, bryhamm said:

Sorry, Lakers basketball now has 17 titles.

The Blue Bombers should be able to rack em' up a lot faster in the CFL that way. 😉  I understand the franchise angle, but why would I be more concerned about a nickname and ownership (that will likely change hands numerous times through sales or deaths) keeping the titles vs keeping those championships with the fan base and location that supported those teams when they won?  A NBA title won in Minneapolis stays in that local, period.

20 hours ago, RUSF18 said:

Next time just link the Simmons podcast where he made these same points. Not to mention that being on the same side as him on this isn't a good sign. 

No Boston homer here, but on this point Simmons is correct.  Fans of the LA Lakers can argue the Celtics titles were won in a completely different NBA, where the number of franchises was much, much lower and diversity of player backgrounds just wasn't there, etc...making them less difficult to accrue.  That's all true.  At least those Celtics homers are counting titles won with their fans, in their city.

My grandfather was a big baseball fan and followed the Milwaukee Braves.  His favorite player was Eddie Matthews.  As a result of his fandom for the 3rd baseman he taught my dad, and eventually me, to hit left-handed (you'll need the extra step to first base anyway!) even though we threw right-handed.  My old man eventually elected to solely bat from the right side and I ditched switch-hitting to hit just lefty.  I could go on, but you can immediately see a connection between fans and the team that played in that area.  How many dads in Atlanta taught their boys to hit left-handed because of Eddie Mathews?

13 hours ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

This.  The titles don't belong to the city--they belong to the franchise.   We certainly are all guilty of associating certain cities with certain franchises--but that's something that we choose to do.  That dynamic doesn't allow us to change history or the terms of how championships are counted. 

Sure it does.  Back in the days people did lots of things that seem non-sensical by today's standards (see Boston Celtic history) and we move to right those wrongs.  There's a reason the Browns insisted their stats stay in Cleveland when the franchise moved to Baltimore and became the Ravens.  Just as the city of Seattle and the basketball fans that supported that team, players, and franchise at the time a title was won get to keep it.  Oklahoma City had nothing to do with it until someone made a business decision.  Doesn't mean we as fans have to honor statistical achievements (including titles) like we're corporate lawyers.

Edited by trader jake

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Would it help if the Lakers retired Mikan's jersey?  No one wants #99 anyway.

 

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7 hours ago, flranger said:

To me this is pretty simple, keep the nickname, keep the history.  Lose the nickname when you move, lose the history.  Change nickname but remain in city, keep the history.

Lakers -> Lakers = 17 titles for the franchise

Cleveland Browns -> Baltimore Ravens = 8 titles for the Browns, 2 titles for the Ravens

Houston Oilers -> Tennessee Titans = 2 titles for Oilers (AFL), 0 titles for Titans

Washington Bullets -> Washington Wizards = 1 title for the franchise

That could be a problem:

Houston Oilers (1960–1996)
Tennessee Oilers (1997–1998)
Tennessee Titans (1999–present)

There are problems in doing it my way as well.  It's certainly easier to keep all the stats, records and titles with a franchise like it's being passed down to the next generation like genetic code as the franchise changes hands, moves to new locals, etc.  I don't care about all that.  When they tell me the last player in Thunder basketball history to do "fill in statistical trivia here" was Gary Payton, that #### just aint right.  Neither is LA claiming titles won in Minneapolis.

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9 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

Would it help if the Lakers retired Mikan's jersey?  No one wants #99 anyway.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that happens in the very near future.  Now that the Lakers have tied the Celtics for NBA championships (according to the arcane title accumulation counting method some advocate for here) the Lakers franchise will want to secure that more "legitimately" by putting #99 in the rafters.

...and HOW DARE you say nobody wants to wear the Lakers #99.  😄  YouTube link - Fletch

Edited by trader jake

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Maybe it’s dumb to argue about titles won 60 years ago when there were like 8 teams in the league and guys like Bob Petit who were dominating wouldn’t even be on a roster now? 

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2 hours ago, Capella said:

Maybe it’s dumb to argue about titles won 60 years ago when there were like 8 teams in the league and guys like Bob Petit who were dominating wouldn’t even be on a roster now? 

Even Bob Pettit would agree with this statement.  

I actually wouldn't be surprised if he was a Theis, Olynck, etc. level player today.  He had some athleticism for the time.  

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Lakers have 17 titles.

Los Angeles has 12 titles.

Boston Celtics have 17 titles.

I hope Boston can take a step forward and make the Finals next year.  Been so close for several years now, but just can't get over the next hurdle.

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59 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

I hope Boston can take a step forward and make the Finals next year.  Been so close for several years now, but just can't get over the next hurdle.

It's just a matter of Time.

Lord.

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On 10/12/2020 at 11:57 PM, jvdesigns2002 said:

This.  The titles don't belong to the city--they belong to the franchise.   We certainly are all guilty of associating certain cities with certain franchises--but that's something that we choose to do.  That dynamic doesn't allow us to change history or the terms of how championships are counted.  

Congrats to OKC fans on their 1979 title!  It’s never too late for a parade!

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11 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

good work on this very important discussion

It’s the off-season.  Lighten up.

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13 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Congrats to OKC fans on their 1979 title!  It’s never too late for a parade!

It's more like congrats to Sonics/Thunder fans.   Franchises are not permanently attached to cities.   Hamilton used to be an American wristwatch brand.  A while ago--they moved to Switzerland.   Their vintage pieces are still Hamilton's even though they are manufactured in a different country now.  Teams are businesses ----and businesses move.  When a business moves--they take their accomplishments with them.  Anyhow--let's just agree to disagree and not further clutter this thread with this pointless discussion. 

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50 minutes ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

It's more like congrats to Sonics/Thunder fans.   Franchises are not permanently attached to cities.   Hamilton used to be an American wristwatch brand.  A while ago--they moved to Switzerland.   Their vintage pieces are still Hamilton's even though they are manufactured in a different country now.  Teams are businesses ----and businesses move.  When a business moves--they take their accomplishments with them.  Anyhow--let's just agree to disagree and not further clutter this thread with this pointless discussion. 

It’s basketball, it’s all pointless discussion :shrug: 

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On 10/14/2020 at 7:52 AM, Alex P Keaton said:

Congrats to OKC fans on their 1979 title!  It’s never too late for a parade!

This seems bizarre to me.  It never even occurred to me that there would be people that think Rams fans no longer get to claim the titles won by Marshall Faulk and Kurt Warner.  Are you all really out here acting like this is a totally new expansion franchise that is completely disconnected from those guys?

The Raiders have moved like 4 times and no one in their right mind considers all of their different accomplishments as part of 4 separate franchises.  They're just the Raiders.

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28 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

This seems bizarre to me.  It never even occurred to me that there would be people that think Rams fans no longer get to claim the titles won by Marshall Faulk and Kurt Warner.  Are you all really out here acting like this is a totally new expansion franchise that is completely disconnected from those guys?

The Raiders have moved like 4 times and no one in their right mind considers all of their different accomplishments as part of 4 separate franchises.  They're just the Raiders.

Those two kept the same nickname and did not try to distance themselves from the prior franchise.  Sonics/Thunder.  Browns/Ravens.  Those are situations where the franchise distanced itself from the fans to establish a new identity.

Edited by flranger

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29 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

This seems bizarre to me.  It never even occurred to me that there would be people that think Rams fans no longer get to claim the titles won by Marshall Faulk and Kurt Warner.  Are you all really out here acting like this is a totally new expansion franchise that is completely disconnected from those guys?

The Raiders have moved like 4 times and no one in their right mind considers all of their different accomplishments as part of 4 separate franchises.  They're just the Raiders.

The Rams moved from LA to St Louis and back to LA.  It's been the same franchise the whole time.  So that's a weird comparison.

The Raiders are a much better comparison, for the reasons you've mentioned.   Not identical, but more similar than the Rams....

I don't personally see any real connection between the Minneapolis era and LA era of the Lakers -- but the "thread police" directed folks to move on to "important topics" so I'll bow out of this and just agree to disagree.  Particularly with anyone who thinks that OKC fans feel like they have a title already.   I don't know a single OKC fan who feels that way.

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I know that, as a Kings fan, I take a lot of pride in that 1951 Rochester Royals title. So far be it from me to take the joy of all those Minneapolis Lakers titles away from everyone living in LA.

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Philly should go well with overly player friendly coach Doc...  :lmao:

Enjoy Embiid's 40 games. :lol: 

Before accounting for injury.

Quote

 

According to Jovan Buha and Joe Vardon of The Athletic, some Clippers teammates had an issue with what they perceived to be the preferential treatment of Kawhi Leonard this past season. 

A season that began with so much optimism due to the additions of Leonard and Paul George went up in flames down in Orlando, as the Clippers blew a 3-1 lead and were bounced from the playoffs in the second round. Former head coach Doc Rivers lamented the team's lack of chemistry in Orlando, but it was likely an issue even before the team entered the bubble. "Players like Beverley, Montrezl Harrell and Lou Williams — Clippers bedrocks before the arrival of Leonard and George — bristled when Leonard was permitted to take games off to manage his body and to live in San Diego, which often led to him being late for team flights, league sources said," per The Athletic. This is something that new head coach Tyronn Lue will need to address this offseason if the Clippers are to be the title contenders that many expect them to be. 

 

 

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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6 hours ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Philly should go well with overly player friendly coach Doc...  :lmao:

Enjoy Embiid's 40 games. :lol: 

Before accounting for injury.

 

I was getting ready to post this in here. Also I was gonna comment on how some fans said he'd hold Joel and Ben accountable. I asked what drugs they were on before asking if they ever followed anything Doc Rivers did in LA and the players literally walked over him especially CP3 and BG. Lue is also gonna let these Clippers walk all over him. It's all about giving the players what they want today not about what's best for the team. Gotta coddle the babies now in the NBA. Tough Love? Expect the player to go cry to his agent and the NBAPA having a phone convo with coach for that. 

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In all seriousness I came to say I really need to stay away from NBA twitter. I swear some of these people commenting on stuff their only opinions are from playing NBA2K and not watching games. Some of the trade ideas I've seen want me to smack my head on the wall. Someone suggested Al Horford for Buddy Heild and getting rid of Badgely in the trade as well. Uh what? This is why it's called silly season. 

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7 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

I was getting ready to post this in here.

Shocking.

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17 hours ago, Deamon said:

Shocking.

Only for the fact it's NBA news and I just saw it. I'd post it about anyone. I've always been Vocal how overrated I think Doc Rivers going back to the Lob City Days.

And honestly I only saw it while I was on NBA twitter for a quick minute educating some fools on how real life Basketball is not their NBA2k game and the trade override isn't on. 

Edited by DJackson10

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The NBA’s league office informed the Board of Governors on Friday that it is targeting to start the 2020-21 season on Dec. 22, three days before Christmas Day, and would like to play a 72-game campaign, sources told The Athletic.

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The NBA league office informed the Board of Governors that the projected value for teams and players with Dec. 22 start versus a later date is more than a $500 million difference, sources said.

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