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2020 NBA Playoffs Thread - Haters arguing that it took Lebron 10 Finals to win 4 titles

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...What? :unsure:

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn

Hall of Fame guard Steve Nash has signed a four-year contract to become the next coach of the Brooklyn Nets, sources tell ESPN.

8:42 AM · Sep 3, 2020

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8 minutes ago, caustic said:

...What? :unsure:

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn

Hall of Fame guard Steve Nash has signed a four-year contract to become the next coach of the Brooklyn Nets, sources tell ESPN.

8:42 AM · Sep 3, 2020

From Zach Lowe - 

Steve Nash and Kevin Durant developed a real, human relationship during Durant's time in Golden State, including during offseason workouts. Steve talked to me about KD for this story in 2018.

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Interesting hire for sure.

Let's see him deal with Kyrie :yucky:

Fun fact: Kyrie's teams the past 2 seasons have had better records without him in the lineup.

And obviously his departure allowed Tatum to become a superstar. And Celtics as a team significantly better.

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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2 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

Wow. I suspect Nash will be an excellent coach.  

I do too but he needs Durant back close to 100% and lead guy. We've seen the results of Kyrie as a lead guy for franchises. And they'll go nowhere if Durant's not back close to 100.

Vaughn is staying on as an assistant.

 

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brohans i am losing faith in the anteater and company its bad and i feel it in my bones not boneless chicken wing bones but it aint good take that to the bank brohans 

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1 hour ago, SWC said:

brohans i am losing faith in the anteater and company its bad and i feel it in my bones not boneless chicken wing bones but it aint good take that to the bank brohans 

they look so disjointed and not confident.

that's what happens when you run in to well coached teams in the playoffs.  

Giannis can't just rely on dunking the ball 12 times per game to score.

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10 hours ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Imagine if the Rockets lost this series.

Was good matchup for OKC but they were thought to be in total rebuild mode heading into the year.

 

And OKC has how many 1st round picks in coming years?  

CP3 may never get the appreciation he needs for how he led OKC this year.  The whole team bought into him as the leader and he took a rebuild team and made them a legit playoff team.  

Hate that it was such an ugly end to the game.  

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16 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

they look so disjointed and not confident.

that's what happens when you run in to well coached teams in the playoffs.  

Giannis can't just rely on dunking the ball 12 times per game to score.

It is interesting because even though their system is so good, are they too rigid?  Is that on Bud for not being a good enough game-to-game tactician?  Is that on the system being drilled into the players rather than really getting them to understand the flow of the game so that they can adapt better?  It seems like they have a lot of pieces that can do different things so you would think that they could mix and match better like the Clippers and Raptors and Celtics do.  It may be somewhat similar to what happens with the Rockets.

The Celtics probably have the best flow and rhythm of any team in the NBA right now.  They may not have the most total talent, but their guys always seem to know where to be, especially on defense, to just get those extra inches of separation or closure as needed.  This was so evident against the Sixers, even though overall, I would say that series was closer than the sweep would indicate.  The Raptors have some similar attributes, but they seem more intentional.  Like they can change up easily and implement different strategies, but they are going game by game or quarter by quarter.  The Celtics just seem to have an effortless flow, like they don't have to think about anything that they do.

 

 

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yeah, not sure what it is.

Giannis should be a versatile multi-tool weapon that should give any team fits, but they only get him the ball on the break or standing still at the three point line.. from which he attempts to dribble drive to the basket.  

works great in the regular season when teams are playing at 60%, but less so against a team that cares about defense in the playoffs.

 

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:excited:

Jon Johnson @jonjohnsonwip

Per source, Sixers are close to a deal with Tyronn Lue to be next HC.

11:12 AM · Sep 3, 2020

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1 hour ago, caustic said:

:excited:

Jon Johnson @jonjohnsonwip

Per source, Sixers are close to a deal with Tyronn Lue to be next HC.

11:12 AM · Sep 3, 2020

he later seemed to walk that back a bit.  not sure whether it's true but the source didn't want it out yet or what.

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1 hour ago, mr. furley said:

yeah, not sure what it is.

Giannis should be a versatile multi-tool weapon that should give any team fits, but they only get him the ball on the break or standing still at the three point line.. from which he attempts to dribble drive to the basket.  

works great in the regular season when teams are playing at 60%, but less so against a team that cares about defense in the playoffs.

 

 

To me, this is the issue.

Every year, it seems like there is a team with the right combo of coaching and high-effort guys that plays hard on defense pretty much every night.  The season is so long and so many teams make the playoffs that there are just a ton of nights when one side or the other just doesn't bother to dig in. So if you're that team and you have some talent (which the Bucks obviously do) you can run up a big regular season record fairly easily.

But then you get to the playoffs and everyone else starts trying (plus other teams are specifically scheming to stop your personnel) and that advantage goes away.

For me, the 2014-15 Hawks are the example I always use. They obviously made the conference finals, but got swept by Cleveland despite Kyrie missing 2 games.

 

And yeah, it does seem like the book is out on defending Giannis in the playoffs. And it doesn't even take Kawai on your team to do it. Just make sure there's a second defender at the elbow and things get real difficult for him real quick.

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7 minutes ago, TLEF316 said:

 

To me, this is the issue.

Every year, it seems like there is a team with the right combo of coaching and high-effort guys that plays hard on defense pretty much every night.  The season is so long and so many teams make the playoffs that there are just a ton of nights when one side or the other just doesn't bother to dig in. So if you're that team and you have some talent (which the Bucks obviously do) you can run up a big regular season record fairly easily.

But then you get to the playoffs and everyone else starts trying (plus other teams are specifically scheming to stop your personnel) and that advantage goes away.

For me, the 2014-15 Hawks are the example I always use. They obviously made the conference finals, but got swept by Cleveland despite Kyrie missing 2 games.

 

And yeah, it does seem like the book is out on defending Giannis in the playoffs. And it doesn't even take Kawai on your team to do it. Just make sure there's a second defender at the elbow and things get real difficult for him real quick.

2014-15 Hawks, eh...

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15 hours ago, trader jake said:

I enjoyed Chris Paul the final minute of game 7. He ridiculously flops at mid court on defense, misses a short jumper on offense, than OKC gets the ball back and with the ball down 1 with ~15 seconds left (as the announcers mention him saying he 'was built for this') he promptly fumbles his dribble a bit and throws the ball into a defenders hands and the offensive set goes to crap.

To top it off, down 2 with 1.1 in regulation he spent an entire time out arguing with the officials before not being the player to shoot the technical foul. Then he finishes strong by not getting open on the out of bounds play, and his team exits stage left.  Clutch as always for CP3.  The more things change, the more they stay the same.

I thought Paul had a great series and season.  That team had no business being in the playoffs, yet here they were nearly defeating the team that traded away their future for similar results.   Even though OKC lost the battle, they're definitely winning the war with all those picks they got from Houston.  I'm going to hate being a Rockets fan in a few years.  

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2 hours ago, mr. furley said:

yeah, not sure what it is.

Giannis should be a versatile multi-tool weapon that should give any team fits, but they only get him the ball on the break or standing still at the three point line.. from which he attempts to dribble drive to the basket.  

works great in the regular season when teams are playing at 60%, but less so against a team that cares about defense in the playoffs.

 

The amount of fouls, sloppy fouls on jump shooters, and offensive fouls on Giannis are just ridiculous.  This looks nothing like the best team in the NBA for most of the reg. season.  They've tried to surround him with shooters, but who is really trustworthy in the playoffs?  Connaughton isn't ready for the moment.  Matthews' and Korver's best days are long forgotten.  Bledsoe is.... meh.

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16 hours ago, trader jake said:

I enjoyed Chris Paul the final minute of game 7. He ridiculously flops at mid court on defense, misses a short jumper on offense, than OKC gets the ball back and with the ball down 1 with ~15 seconds left (as the announcers mention him saying he 'was built for this') he promptly fumbles his dribble a bit and throws the ball into a defenders hands and the offensive set goes to crap.

To top it off, down 2 with 1.1 in regulation he spent an entire time out arguing with the officials before not being the player to shoot the technical foul. Then he finishes strong by not getting open on the out of bounds play, and his team exits stage left.  Clutch as always for CP3.  The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Did you watch any of the games earlier in the series?  Or CP3 during the season?  Yes, he was bad last night but his performance at the end of game 6 was the only reason the series even went 7 games.  

Also, he never shoots technical fouls.  The player that did shoot them had made almost 30 in a row when he missed that last one.  :shrug:

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Wow! What a ridiculous flagrant on Theis.

Edit - Never mind. Looked it up. Flagrant can be unintentional. 

Edited by brun

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It's weird that the arena is so quiet in these huge moments.

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Never figured out in that situation why they guard the inbounder. No chance he can get the ball back to shoot. 5 on 4 is a lot harder to get a clean look than 4 on 4.

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We've been w/o sports for awhile but I don't remember a better Round-Round n half of playoffs in a long time.

Neutral court probably has a lot to do with it.

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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And while we are at it, why wasn’t Boston guarding the three point line? The only way they could lose in regulation was on a three pointer. Put Taco in the paint and 4 guys on the perimeter. 

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2 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

And while we are at it, why wasn’t Boston guarding the three point line? The only way they could lose in regulation was on a three pointer. Put Taco in the paint and 4 guys on the perimeter. 

I think they must have been confused (uncharacteristically)

tatum let of run away from him and then he is pointing at someone to follow him.  Smart starts pointing too so I think that something different was supposed to happen.  Or they Just really didn’t expect anyone to go to the far corner and got caught off guard

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Boneless chicken wings really tried to lose this game by 30.

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2 hours ago, Chris B. said:

It's weird that the arena is so quiet in these huge moments.

I didn’t see this shot, but I actually think the nba has done a great job with the crowd noise, music, etc to help try to replicate the arena environment 

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2 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

Never figured out in that situation why they guard the inbounder. No chance he can get the ball back to shoot. 5 on 4 is a lot harder to get a clean look than 4 on 4.

it's not about guarding the shot. he's trying to disrupt the inbound pass rather than give an open pass. logic was sound as it took an amazing cross-court pass over a 7'5" defender and a clutch shot to get the dub with 0.5 on the clock.

Edited by Buffaloes
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21 minutes ago, Buffaloes said:

it's not about guarding the shot. he's trying to disrupt the inbound pass rather than give an open pass. logic was sound as it took an amazing cross-court pass over a 7'5" defender and a clutch shot to get the dub with 0.5 on the clock.

If they played four defenders on the line with a big in the paint, the likely outcome would be a pass to someone coming out to the three point line for a catch, turn, and shoot in 0.5 second (which may not even have been possible in such a short time).

Maybe Toronto could have tried to get someone open for a two, but even if the Raptors made it then the game would go to OT  

The way things turned out, the cross court lob pass was the one weak spot in putting someone on the inbounder. It didn’t help that some defenders thought they were in zone while others thought they were in man. And the shot had to be perfect. But OG was so wide open that the entry pass just had to get over Taco and the shooter had all day to be able to get in position to receive the pass because it was so high. 

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6 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

If they played four defenders on the line with a big in the paint, the likely outcome would be a pass to someone coming out to the three point line for a catch, turn, and shoot in 0.5 second (which may not even have been possible in such a short time).

Maybe Toronto could have tried to get someone open for a two, but even if the Raptors made it then the game would go to OT  

The way things turned out, the cross court lob pass was the one weak spot in putting someone on the inbounder. It didn’t help that some defenders thought they were in zone while others thought they were in man. And the shot had to be perfect. But OG was so wide open that the entry pass just had to get over Taco and the shooter had all day to be able to get in position to receive the pass because it was so high. 

#### happens. Sometimes you have to tip your hat, well done by the dinosaurs 

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Gotta give credit to the clock operator, they really nailed the timing on starting the clock.

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20 hours ago, Major said:

I thought Paul had a great series and season. 

Chris Paul (almost) always does....until the very, very end when he and his team will inevitably choke. It's happened his entire career.  You can set your watch to it...like watching him cut in front of a defender on his back near midcourt while dribbling, flopping to draw a charge against bigs, yelling at his own teammates, or arguing with officials regardless of the moment.  He's consistent, I'll give him that.

19 hours ago, Poke_4_Life said:

Yes, he was bad last night but his performance at the end of game 6 was the only reason the series even went 7 games.  

In general I agree with you.  I'd even say Chris Paul had a good game 7 (triple-double and all), but down the stretch you just knew he wouldn't get the job done because he never does.  I guess his quote after game 6, "“When it gets to clutch time, fourth quarter, some people are built for it, some people shy away from it," just struck me as preposterous.  A lot of players could say that...but he just isn't one of them.  Game 7 is just another example why.

 

Great article on The Ringer as well: link "####housery" 😆

Edited by trader jake
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13 hours ago, Chris B. said:

Nuggets showing that fatigue.

Unfortunately---Denver has a lot of good pieces. but they don't form any kind of picture right now. 

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10 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

If they played four defenders on the line with a big in the paint, the likely outcome would be a pass to someone coming out to the three point line for a catch, turn, and shoot in 0.5 second (which may not even have been possible in such a short time).

Maybe Toronto could have tried to get someone open for a two, but even if the Raptors made it then the game would go to OT  

The way things turned out, the cross court lob pass was the one weak spot in putting someone on the inbounder. It didn’t help that some defenders thought they were in zone while others thought they were in man. And the shot had to be perfect. But OG was so wide open that the entry pass just had to get over Taco and the shooter had all day to be able to get in position to receive the pass because it was so high. 

One of the great aspects of the TOR/BOS series is the chess match between two great head coaches.  I'm typically in favor of playing the big (real big with Tacko Fall) in front of the inbounder, but understand the argument against it with under 1 second (because the inbounder doesn't have enough time to get the ball back and shoot).  For me, the classic example for that "guard the inbounder" choice goes back to the Duke/Kentucky game where Christian Laettner hit the game winner after catching the unguarded pass from Grant Hill.  Youtube link

I believe inserting Tacko Fall into the game with 0.5 remaining made sense.  I'm not putting him into the middle with four perimeter defenders.  The previous night the officials called a very dubious last second foul on the soon to be back-to-back MVP, so I doubt they'd hesitate to call one on Fall in that situation.  Where I question the Celtics is their reliance on zone defenses in these situations.  It's a sound strategy overall, but not every time.  Nick Nurse is a top head coach and he certainly knows Boston will play that defense and have a zone-beater play to run.  Brad Stevens is also an elite head coach, so will he counter that next time with man-to-man?  I could also see a situation where he shows man-to-man next time and Toronto is forced to call a time out, only to see Stevens switch back to his preferred zone in that situation.  It's just one small example (well, very big last night) of the Nurse/Stevens battle that makes this series enjoyable for bball nerds.

Edited by trader jake

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2 minutes ago, trader jake said:

One of the great aspects of the TOR/BOS series is the chess match between two great head coaches.  I'm typically in favor of playing the big (real big with Tacko Fall) in front of the inbounder, but understand the argument against it with under 1 second (because the inbounder doesn't have enough time to get the ball back and shoot).  For me, the classic example for that "guard the inbounder" choice goes back to the Duke/Kentucky game where Christian Laettner hit the game winner after catching the unguarded pass from Grant Hill.  Youtube link

I believe inserting Tacko Fall into the game with 0.5 remaining made sense.  I'm not putting him into the middle with four perimeter defenders.  The previous night the officials called a very dubious last second foul on the soon to be back-to-back MVP, so I doubt they'd hesitate to call one on Fall in that situation.  Where I question the Celtics is their reliance on zone defenses in these situations.  It's a sound strategy overall, but not every time.  Nick Nurse is a top head coach and he certainly knows Boston will play that defense and have a zone-beater play to run.  Brad Stevens is also an elite head coach, so will he counter that next time with man-to-man?  I could also see a situation where he shows man-to-man next time and Toronto is forced to call a time out, only to see Stevens switch back to his preferred zone in that situation.  It's just one small example (well, very big last night) of the Nurse/Stevens battle that makes this series enjoyable for bball nerds.

I heard additional talk about that play after the game and Stevens did want them to guard the three point line and Tatum said he screwed up. Brown also indicated there was miscommunication on if they should stick with one guy or switch.

I am not totally adverse to having a big on the inbounder . . . but IMO that guy really needs to force the inbound pass throw the ball to a limited spot on the court. Maybe it's harder to do in real life, but pros should be able to angle themselves that the pass had to only go along the sideline. It's much easier to defend half the court than all of it. I also am more of a fan of showing one defense and then immediately switching as the ball as getting handed to the inbounder. Make the Raptors burn another timeout (if they had any left) and force them to come back with a secondary play call.

The reason I would have been in favor of having Taco hover just inside the free throw line was not to defend a shot but to deflect a pass toward the basket. With his wing span, he could easily swat away a pass without coming close to hitting anyone in the act of shooting.

But I still think BOS lost the game more than the Raptors won it (at least looking solely at that play). The Raptors should never have been able to get a clean look at the basket. Hats off to TOR for the execution, but that was a big blunder on Boston's part. Clearly TOR executed perfectly and even if they ran that play in practice without any defenders on the court, the chances of it being successful are slim. But you can't let a team run the play as drawn up. You just can't. If the first and second options on the play are covered and they are forced to pass to someone that really isn't the one intended to get the ball and that guy chucks one in from half court, so be it.

 

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24 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

But I still think BOS lost the game more than the Raptors won it (at least looking solely at that play). The Raptors should never have been able to get a clean look at the basket. Hats off to TOR for the execution, but that was a big blunder on Boston's part. Clearly TOR executed perfectly and even if they ran that play in practice without any defenders on the court, the chances of it being successful are slim. But you can't let a team run the play as drawn up. You just can't. If the first and second options on the play are covered and they are forced to pass to someone that really isn't the one intended to get the ball and that guy chucks one in from half court, so be it.

 

I think you make some good points but, in fairness to the Celtics, OG was their third option on that play.  I think someone (maybe Lowry?) said after the game that the first and second options on that play were Pascal (inexplicably) and Fred Van Vleet but those were taken away.   For the record, I don’t think OG has ever been higher than the 3rd option in the Raptors offense, although I could see that changing with this series as he’s been one of their few reliable shooters.  He’s still not a good passer and can’t really create for himself though.

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2 hours ago, trader jake said:

Chris Paul (almost) always does....until the very, very end when he and his team will inevitably choke. It's happened his entire career.  You can set your watch to it...like watching him cut in front of a defender on his back near midcourt while dribbling, flopping to draw a charge against bigs, yelling at his own teammates, or arguing with officials regardless of the moment.  He's consistent, I'll give him that.

In general I agree with you.  I'd even say Chris Paul had a good game 7 (triple-double and all), but down the stretch you just knew he wouldn't get the job done because he never does.  I guess his quote after game 6, "“When it gets to clutch time, fourth quarter, some people are built for it, some people shy away from it," just struck me as preposterous.  A lot of players could say that...but he just isn't one of them.  Game 7 is just another example why.

 

Great article on The Ringer as well: link "####housery" 😆

As a long time Clipper fan, I can attest to this. He should have led the Lob City Clippers much further into the playoffs multiple times, but they choked away so many games and series.

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