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Can you live too long? (1 Viewer)

Da Guru

Da Guru

Fair & Balanced
Yesterday was my friends grandfathers 97th birthday so I stopped over the grandfathers home with him to sit and talk for awhile. When I left I felt a little sad for him.

The man turned 97 and in very good health for his age. Walks on his own, no major issues.  Has not driven in 5 years or so but now has everything delivered, has a lawn service that takes care of the outside

Now the sad part, he was the oldest of 5 siblings, the other 4 younger ones have been dead for years, his wife passed away 15 years ago at 82, he has 4 children and 2 of them have passed away from natural causes, the other 2 are 70,72 years old and live out of state and are in poor health.   All of his group of cousins and friends have passed away.  Everyone is his circle of friends is gone and have been for years he said.

 So he just sits all day in his garage looking out at the street and whoever walks by, said he has been doing this day after day after day since his wife passed.

My friend his only grandson that live close enough goes over there every other week or so but even he lives 90 minutes away.

When I got home  I was wondering what it would be like to outlive everyone you care about and associate with and how difficult it must be emotionally.   I thought If I would want to live that long as to be back all by myself at that age.  Not so sure.

 
This past year or so I got to thinking that I don't want to live much more than 85-90 years. By then I'm hoping assisted suicide will be widely accepted and available. Or my health/medicine will have advanced so much that I want to live longer.

 
It is the lonliness that would be worst part. If he had a circle of friends or someone to do something with that would be a game changer.

 
Even if you have family that lives close to you, its not like spending time with them is going to occupy a significant portion of your time.   I financially plan to live until 100 but I'm pretty sure I'd want to check out way before then.   My girls are 30 and 32 years younger than me.   If they have kids at roughly the same time as I did, then by time my grandkids are off to college I'll be in my early 80's.   So maybe around 85 would be a good time to check out; 90 latest.   This is all based upon today's medicine.  Who knows what type of advances will be made in the next 40 years and what kind of affect that has on quality of life.   Give me a self driving car and maybe one of the exoskeleton suits that assist you with movement and you have significant more options.    

 
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I think being in an old folks home might make it tolerable if I outlive everyone...at least there I'd have people to talk to.

 
My wife’s grandmother is 99. Has her daughter next door taking care of her and my wife and our kid and I go visit all the time. Still, she feels trapped and misses her husband who died in 2016.
 

She told me the other day that she dreams of him every night. They are waking in a forest, and he walks ahead. After a few minutes she sees people on the side of the road and she asks where he is. They say he is up ahead, but she never finds him. Broke my heart. 

 
Capella said:
My wife’s grandmother is 99. Has her daughter next door taking care of her and my wife and our kid and I go visit all the time. Still, she feels trapped and misses her husband who died in 2016.
 

She told me the other day that she dreams of him every night. They are waking in a forest, and he walks ahead. After a few minutes she sees people on the side of the road and she asks where he is. They say he is up ahead, but she never finds him. Broke my heart. 
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Crazy dream.   Do feel for her.   It will work for them

 
I would certainly have a couple of dogs if I was in grandfather's position.    Give them a doggy door so that you only have to walk them when you want to.  Pay for a service to come and clean up the crap.   You can tell them all your crazy old person thoughts and they'll just sit there listening and wagging their tales.  

 
My grandfather, “Pop”, lived to 97. Outlived everyone. When my moms best friend growing up passed that one hit him pretty hard. He had outlived every one of his peers, army buddies, wife, all his brothers, and now was starting to outlive his children’s friends. Lol, he would sometimes jokingly sings songs about “being ready to go!” 
 

His last night alive he told his youngest son that he loved him and said “I’m going to go now,” and passed in his sleep. 

 
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You absolutely can live too long. One of many reasons to develop a set of diverse interests, involving both mind and body, and a big network of friends. Regardless, when you lose your faculties and can't do much it seems pretty miserable. Dementia is far more humane to the afflicted, but harder on caregivers.

 
Me Ma died last week. I'd never been close w my parents, but we'd never been enemies so when they reached their upper 80s, i moved back east to be available to them and, when my mother's heart appeared to be giving out and me Da couldnt take care of her, i moved in to make her wish never to see the inside of a nursing home come true. What i thought would be a few months turned out to be seven years. 

I wish i could say raising parents to their graves was noble, fulfilling work. It ain't. My spry, daffy father kept busy with his li'l orchard but, as his abilities dimmed, his bitterness rose and was fueled by media designed to prey on the disgusted, the older the better. He's spent the last few years talking my mother out of following many of the health regimens i set for her (i'm not a health professional but had some general hospital experience in my years as a psych tech) because of wild theories he'd hear on TV. This not only caused her undue pain, but hastened her decline from hobbled to chair-ridden to bed-ridden. Once that happened, virtually all her systems began to fold in on her, mostly from tissues lacking the tensile strength to aid basic bodily functions.

And then there was her mind - as strong as her body was weak, but which betrayed her even more. Her steel-trap brain, Irish will and abandoned-child need to compensate would have probably made her a force in the world if she'd been born a gen or two later, but she had to settle for house & home. The Stalinesque zeal of her taskfulness sent me running @ 15, but made her a tremendous hostess, neighbor, volunteer - a contributor to humankind.

But this is not the kind of person who should live past 90, especially as an invalid. We set her up in the living room (even when she became bed-ridden) so she could always adore the home she'd made but, when you can't do anything, it's much harder to manipulate anyone. But she never surrendered to that - first, she and Da developed a language between them that ever sounded like entrenched fighting, which took over their entire daytime communications. Then, she'd claim aged immunity for indiscretions and then yell at me for agreeing, among other momgames which turned every day into a minefield for a son who didn't even like his mother but began & ended each day by wiping the hole he came out of. 

But the worst was her refusal to recognize the decline of her memory. I quickly learned not to fall into the trap of correcting her (courting a 3-day grudge from a woman who specialized in 30-yr grudges is pretty intense), but i also wanted to give her every little autonomy that i could. When she lost the ability to keep her word because she couldnt remember her word, every task in which she still played a part became a tug-o-war.

And we havent even gotten to the pain. When you outlive your warranty, EVERYthing hurts all the time. My wife died of bone cancer 20some years ago and suffered terribly on the way out (shriveled from 6'1, 135 to 5'6, 79 and growled ferally more than talked for the last few months), but to be helpless AND hurting AND still unable to give up the fight might have actually been a greater misery. I'd clean Ma up in the evening and dismiss myself to my basement apartment for Da to 'tuck her in". The last two years, that usually included being father/confessor to up to an hour of weeping & speedpraying as her release from having to keep a brave face for me. Many are the nights i typed to this forum with tears in my own eyes from having to hear that from six feet directly below her.

At least the end was mercifully quick. Ma developed an intestinal blockage which caused her to blow up like the blueberry girl in Willy Wonka, an excellent home hospice team took over for the last few days and she expired in a narcotized haze, just present enough to appreciate her family around her. So Rusty Doyle got her wish of a long life, not to be an inpatient, no abject cancer pain, no Alzheimers, never widowed nor spent a MILLISECOND outside earshot of loving care (nor was prey to four walls caving in on her as so many lonely seniors endure) and STILL suffered mightily before leaving this impatient rock two days past her 96th birthday. Rest in peace.

May you all die sooner than you plan, though no sooner than you have to.

 
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Terminalxylem said:
I'm guessing some people haven't spent much time with really old, sick people. Even if they aren't sick, I've rarely encountered 80+ year-olds that seem ecstatic to be alive. 
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I housed my dad the last 4 months of his life. He was in bad shape. I know he wanted to stay alive though. He was 77. 

 
Capella said:
My wife’s grandmother is 99. Has her daughter next door taking care of her and my wife and our kid and I go visit all the time. Still, she feels trapped and misses her husband who died in 2016.
 

She told me the other day that she dreams of him every night. They are waking in a forest, and he walks ahead. After a few minutes she sees people on the side of the road and she asks where he is. They say he is up ahead, but she never finds him. Broke my heart. 
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Jesus, man I’m sorry. I couldnt imagine listening to her tell the story. 

 
NREC34 said:
I housed my dad the last 4 months of his life. He was in bad shape. I know he wanted to stay alive though. He was 77. 
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I'm not arguing that some have a will to live despite adversity; rather, for many the alternative doesn't seem worse than prolonged suffering/isolation/etc. 

It's great your dad was in the former group, but I think societal lack of understanding/acceptance of the process of dying sometimes makes people keep fighting due to guilt or ignorance. IMO, we need to change the focus to quality of life, period.

 
wikkidpissah said:
Me Ma died last week. I'd never been close w my parents, but we'd never been enemies so when they reached their upper 80s, i moved back east to be available to them and, when my mother's heart appeared to be giving out and me Da couldnt take care of her, i moved in to make her wish never to see the inside of a nursing home come true. What i thought would be a few months turned out to be seven years. 

I wish i could say raising parents to their graves was noble, fulfilling work. It ain't. My spry, daffy father kept busy with his li'l orchard but, as his abilities dimmed, his bitterness rose and was fueled by media designed to prey on the disgusted, the older the better. He's spent the last few years talking my mother out of following many of the health regimens i set for her (i'm not a health professional but had some general hospital experience in my years as a psych tech) because of wild theories he'd hear on TV. This not only caused her undue pain, but hastened her decline from hobbled to chair-ridden to bed-ridden. Once that happened, virtually all her systems began to fold in on her, mostly from tissues lacking the tensile strength to aid basic bodily functions.

And then there was her mind - as strong as her body was weak, but which betrayed her even more. Her steel-trap brain, Irish will and abandoned-child need to compensate would have probably made her a force in the world if she'd been born a gen or two later, but she had to settle for house & home. The Stalinesque zeal of her taskfulness sent me running @ 15, but made her a tremendous hostess, neighbor, volunteer - a contributor to humankind.

But this is not the kind of person who should live past 90, especially as an invalid. We set her up in the living room (even when she became bed-ridden) so she could always adore the home she'd made but, when you can't do anything, it's much harder to manipulate anyone. But she never surrendered to that - first, she and Da developed a language between them that ever sounded like entreched fighting, which took over their entire daytime communications. Then, she'd claim aged immunity for indiscretions and then yell at me for agreeing, among other momgames which turned every day into a minefield for a son who didn't even like his mother but began & ended each day by wiping the hole he came out of. 

But the worst was her refusal to recognize the decline of her memory. I quickly learned not to fall into the trap of correcting her (courting a 3-day grudge from a woman who specialized in 30-yr grudges is pretty intense), but i also wanted to give her every little autonomy that i could. When she lost the ability to keep her word because she couldnt remember her word, every task in which she still played a part became a tug-o-war.

And we havent even gotten to the pain. When you outlive your warranty, EVERYthing hurts all the time. My wife died of bone cancer 20some years ago and suffered terribly on the way out (shriveled from 6'1, 135 to 5'6, 79 and growled ferally more than talked for the last few months), but to be helpless AND hurting AND still unable to give up the fight might have actually been a greater misery. I'd clean Ma up in the evening and dismiss myself to my basement apartment for Da to 'tuck her in". The last two years, that usually included up to an hour of weeping & speedpraying as her release from having to keep a brave face for me. Many are the nights i typed to this forum with tears in my eyes from having to hear that from six feet directly below her.

At least the end was mercifully quick. Ma developed an intestinal blockage which caused her to blow up like the blueberry girl in Willy Wonka, an excellent hospice team took over for the last few days and she expired in a narcotized haze, just present enough to appreciate her family around her. So Rusty Doyle got her wish of a long life, not to be an inpatient, never widowed nor spent a MILLISECOND outside earshot of loving care (nor was prey to four walls caving in on her as so many lonely seniors endure) and STILL suffered mightily before leaving this impatient rock two days past her 96th birthday. Rest in peace.

May you all die sooner than you plan, though no sooner than you have to.
Click to expand...
I'm glad I don't need someone to write my eulogy

 
Terminalxylem said:
I'm not arguing that some have a will to live despite adversity; rather, for many the alternative doesn't seem worse than prolonged suffering/isolation/etc. 

It's great your dad was in the former group, but I think societal lack of understanding/acceptance of the process of dying sometimes makes people keep fighting due to guilt or ignorance. IMO, we need to change the focus to quality of life, period.
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Or we're scared or in nervous and none-too-rushed awe of what might come after. Some of us benighted fools still believe in stuff like that.

 
When I was diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer with a large tumour at 50 I made peace with going at any time. Most people above 70 are saddled with something that sucks health wise or otherwise. I'm not enjoying having scans done when something is off, labs done every 3 or 4 mo, appts, etc. In my case I have no kids to think about. I live alone. I have my 2 guinea pigs set up for when it's my time. I don't want to be 70 with the way I physically feel right now. So I don't admire anyone living so long unless they are healthy, have their faculties, and are happy in their lives.

 
rockaction said:
Or we're scared or in nervous and none-too-rushed awe of what might come after. Some of us benighted fools still believe in stuff like that.
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In my experience, it’s often the family or loved ones of the person near death with those feelings. More often than not, elderly people aren’t afraid of death.

 
Finances are big too. So many need social security and we don't know how long it'll be around or if it gets cut. Same with Medicare. Non well to do seniors are scared. 

 
100% you can.

My grandmother (my mom's mom) is 96. She was one of like 9 siblings but most of them have been dead for decades. Her last brother lived up in New England (as far as I can remember, I never met him) and I dont believe she had seen for him decades when he passed a few years back (although they spoke on the phone). She never had a ton of friends and alienated the ones that she had.  Both her husbands passed away young (my mom and aunt are half-sisters)  so literally all she has is her 2 daughters and a total of 5 grandkids. But my aunt and uncle live down south and my 2 cousins are completely useless (even living in NYC, they never visited. So messed up) so its basically just me, my mom and my brothers.

We kept her in her house as long as we could (with a full time live-in for 5 or 6 years) but her dementia finally progressed to the point where it just wasn't feasible anymore. So we finally moved her into a memory care facility like 2 and a half years ago. Its nice (she never saved a dime but lucked into an inheritance from her long time "boyfriend" like 10 years ago) and its close to my mom, which is great. But she's now at the point where she doesn't recognize my brothers and I and only recognizes my mom every once in a while.  She's still in good spirits and far more "with it" than most of the others on her floor (about 2 dozen Alzheimer's patients in various stages. Just brutal to see) which is good. But I worry that if she's still there 2 or 3 years from now, she's basically just going to be a vegetable. So freaking sad. 

Other than the mental decay and some general inability to get around (she is unbalanced even with a walker. she's taken some falls over the years) she's incredibly healthy. Never drank or smoked and always hate healthy, so her organs are probably better than 99% of people her age.  I just hate the idea of her life dragging out for another god knows how many years due to medications when her mind is totally shot. The whole thing just sucks.

We're not at that point yet, but I worry that its coming. Who knows where medicine will be in 60 years but I REALLY hope I'm gone LONG before I'm anywhere close to that.

 
wikkidpissah said:
Me Ma died last week.
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I'm sorry for your loss wikkid, and I'm glad she passed on.  I know from watching my grandmother live to be 98 that it was not a picnic for her during her last 5 to maybe 6 years. Her last two years were especially difficult, and I would wish she would pass so she didn't have to live like she was anymore. It was so nice of you to be her caregiver during the last few years of her life. I hope the time you have left with your dad is a smooth ride.

 
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One generational thing I've noticed is how men and women that are over ~70 years old realy take it hard when their spouse dies.   Maybe it's because they were more dependent on each other than people are now.  The men had the job.  The women the kids, cooking, etc.  Maybe it's they were often married earlier.   I mean they don't get rid of the other persons clothes, they talk a lot about missing the other person, etc.

Hard to pinpoint why really.    I mean, I'm 50 and if I die my wife will take it hard.  But she' not keeping my clothes.  She's not mulling over it 24x7.   I'd hope she found another guy to be happy with.  Women have their own jobs, men cook and do laundry, etc.  Everyone now is independent.   The generation ~55 and younger can operate on their own.   Whereas my Dad would likely starve without my Mom.

i dunno.  Just an observation.  I'd kinda like to live forever.   In 1000 years the world may look back and say, "can you believe people died before they were 200 years old"

 
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Brunell4MVP said:
One generational thing I've noticed is how men and women that are over ~70 years old realy take it hard when their spouse dies.   Maybe it's because they were more dependent on each other than people are now.  The men had the job.  The women the kids, cooking, etc.  Maybe it's they were often married earlier.   I mean they don't get rid of the other persons clothes, they talk a lot about missing the other person, etc.

Hard to pinpoint why really.    I mean, I'm 50 and if I die my wife will take it hard.  But she' not keeping my clothes.  She's not mulling over it 24x7.   I'd hope she found another guy to be happy with.  Women have their own jobs, men cook and do laundry, etc.  Everyone now is independent.   The generation ~55 and younger can operate on their own.   Whereas my Dad would likely starve without my Mom.

i dunno.  Just an observation.  I'd kinda like to live forever.   In 1000 years the world may look back and say, "can you believe people died before they were 200 years old"
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Those that take it that hard have probably been together for 40-60 years

 
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My daughter works for the Alzheimer's Association's national call center.  She and her fiance were out to our place for dinner tonight, and she told me about the Friendship Line ...a senior intervention hotline.  It's quite simply a place where seniors can call to just talk!  I'd not heard of it before.  She commented that she believes if someone gets a little too regular with their calls, they do get limited to 15 minutes.  But, still - what a wonderful resource.

The Friendship Line

 
belljr said:
Those that take it that hard have probably been together for 40-60 years
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Not necessarily. My aunt was married from age 18 for 58 years. Her husband passed and while of course, she's not pining for him. He been gone 16 months now. 

 
tri-man 47 said:
My daughter works for the Alzheimer's Association's national call center.  She and her fiance were out to our place for dinner tonight, and she told me about the Friendship Line ...a senior intervention hotline.  It's quite simply a place where seniors can call to just talk!  I'd not heard of it before.  She commented that she believes if someone gets a little too regular with their calls, they do get limited to 15 minutes.  But, still - what a wonderful resource.

The Friendship Line
Click to expand...
Newsom created a senior friendship line when covid first came out since so many are alone isolating. 

 
CurlyNight said:
Not necessarily. My aunt was married from age 18 for 58 years. Her husband passed and while of course, she's not pining for him. He been gone 16 months now. 
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That wasn't my point. My point was the ones that do have been together that long. I never said everyone together that long would. The point was someone together 10-15 years is less likely than a someone together 50

 
TLEF316 said:
100% you can.

My grandmother (my mom's mom) is 96. She was one of like 9 siblings but most of them have been dead for decades. Her last brother lived up in New England (as far as I can remember, I never met him) and I dont believe she had seen for him decades when he passed a few years back (although they spoke on the phone). She never had a ton of friends and alienated the ones that she had.  Both her husbands passed away young (my mom and aunt are half-sisters)  so literally all she has is her 2 daughters and a total of 5 grandkids. But my aunt and uncle live down south and my 2 cousins are completely useless (even living in NYC, they never visited. So messed up) so its basically just me, my mom and my brothers.

We kept her in her house as long as we could (with a full time live-in for 5 or 6 years) but her dementia finally progressed to the point where it just wasn't feasible anymore. So we finally moved her into a memory care facility like 2 and a half years ago. Its nice (she never saved a dime but lucked into an inheritance from her long time "boyfriend" like 10 years ago) and its close to my mom, which is great. But she's now at the point where she doesn't recognize my brothers and I and only recognizes my mom every once in a while.  She's still in good spirits and far more "with it" than most of the others on her floor (about 2 dozen Alzheimer's patients in various stages. Just brutal to see) which is good. But I worry that if she's still there 2 or 3 years from now, she's basically just going to be a vegetable. So freaking sad. 

Other than the mental decay and some general inability to get around (she is unbalanced even with a walker. she's taken some falls over the years) she's incredibly healthy. Never drank or smoked and always hate healthy, so her organs are probably better than 99% of people her age.  I just hate the idea of her life dragging out for another god knows how many years due to medications when her mind is totally shot. The whole thing just sucks.

We're not at that point yet, but I worry that its coming. Who knows where medicine will be in 60 years but I REALLY hope I'm gone LONG before I'm anywhere close to that.
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Sounds like me, except it was my mother who had Alzheimer's.  The worst.  She ended up in a really nice memory care place, but it was basically the one thing she didn't want to have happen.  It is the suck.  I am so not doing that.

 
Wingnut said:
I think being in an old folks home might make it tolerable if I outlive everyone...at least there I'd have people to talk to.
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Sure, but who wants to sit around talking to a bunch of geezers, amiright?

 
Psychopav said:
Sure, but who wants to sit around talking to a bunch of geezers, amiright?
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:hey: I grew up in a family of old people, most of whom have passed. I've seen the spectrum from severe Alzheimer's to cancer that literally ate a healthy man over a 2 year period down to nothing and everything in between. I resolved myself to this a long time ago as I realized my lot in life as the youngest member of my family by 20 years so I've probably seen more than some when it comes to old folks & outliving yourself. Most all were content with mortality, very few in my family at an early age and for the most part were healthy in mind, their bodies just wore out. Old people are awesome to hang with if you get them to talk. Problem is, most of the time there is such an age gap that there is little relevant topics shared by younger and older generations. Learn some history then go talk to the people who lived it, you get some really great insights.

I don't know if it's because of the above or just my own warped mind but I've considered the topic of immortality way more than I should and what I would do if I had the ability to achieve it. Assuming modern medicine at some point overcomes the body breakdown issue, I'd be willing to give it shot. I've come to appreciate how little time there is to do all that I want and with the carrot of the internet dangled in front of us for 20+ years, the amount of things I don't know is colossal. I fell like I would be able to keep myself occupied for 400-500 years pretty easily, it's the next few thousand I'm having trouble getting a plan together. Maybe sit in a garage and watch the flying cars go by?

 
I know my grandpa died in his 30s, grandma never remarried and lived into her 90s

she did have 4 kids all close by and lots of grandkids that would at least visit from time to time

 
Immortality (as it relates to aging & illness, not accidental etc.) is an interesting topic. What could we expect in quality of life, finances, health, relationships, housing etc.? Would it affect ambition, innovation? Cap on retirement benefits? Cap on welfare? Limit procreation? Would religion go away? How would we handle long term prison populations? Can I just end it all for myself when I want? Can I end it for others who, due to circumstances beyond their control, cannot support themselves. Would I take on less physical risk? Would divorce rates be near 100%? Can I wear cargo pants when I'm 300?

Doesn't seem probable for the general population. Maybe the 1%'s? 

 
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