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timschochet

timschochet’s political thoughts and commentary- back in here until the election is done

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2 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Well that’s pretty easy for her to say.
She’s not losing her business. Or her home. Or struggling to feed her kids

Neither is Mitch McConnell, how about you send some invective his way as well.

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5 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

Neither is Mitch McConnell, how about you send some invective his way as well.

 

28 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

At the expense of the citizens and businesses in our Country that NEED THE HELP

screw these politicians 

 

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25 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Well that’s pretty easy for her to say.
She’s not losing her business. Or her home. Or struggling to feed her kids

The House passed 2.2 trillion dollar stimulus package.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/10/01/white-house-democrats-economic-stimulus/

Also passed a stand alone bill for airlines.

Ignored by McConnell.  

 

So who are we upset at again?????

 

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There is only one obstructionist here, and it is McConnell.  

 

Pelosi the obstructionist is right wing talking point, with no fact-based merit.  

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3 hours ago, timschochet said:

I think appearing to walk away would have an impact on the election, so I disagree with you. 

Who is it that you think would be saying "oh, I was on the fence about Biden and now Pelosi's walking away so I am voting for Trump" (or vice versa)?  More importantly, it's your belief that there are more "undecideds" out there than what every piece of evidence is saying?  Why?

Edited by The Commish

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1 hour ago, massraider said:

The House passed 2.2 trillion dollar stimulus package.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/10/01/white-house-democrats-economic-stimulus/

Also passed a stand alone bill for airlines.

Ignored by McConnell.  

 

So who are we upset at again?????

 

Paywalled for me. If i search for stand alone airline bill i only get articles saying pelosi rejects it. But they are dated the 8th. Did that change in last 10 days? 

"Ain't going to be no standalone bill, unless there is a bigger bill," Pelosi told reporters.

Edited by parasaurolophus

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2 hours ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

At the expense of the citizens and businesses in our Country that NEED THE HELP

screw these politicians 

I agree

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

Who is it that you think would be saying "oh, I was on the fence about Biden and now Pelosi's walking away so I am voting for Trump" (or vice versa)?  More importantly, it's your belief that there are more "undecideds" out there than what every piece of evidence is saying?  Why?

I don’t think anyone will change their preference. But I think a failure here could easily depress voting. 

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5 hours ago, timschochet said:

Well that’s my opinion. It’s certainly subjective on my part but I firmly believe it. 
But it’s not that interesting a subject. I don’t keep score and who cares anyway? Do you have any thoughts on the stimulus? Or on the election? 

Did Trump supporters spend the last 4 years spreading conspiracy's the President's ties to Russia?

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I don’t think anyone will change their preference. But I think a failure here could easily depress voting. 

And this belief is based on what exactly?

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7 hours ago, timschochet said:

President Trump claimed this morning that if he and Pelosi reach a deal he will force the Senate Republicans to go along “in two minutes”. We’ll see, I am skeptical about this, but on the other hand I think something will happen due to political pressure, 

The stimulus is rapidly becoming the most pressing issue in this country- more pressing than the election or anything else. 

Kinda baffling it wasn’t always most pressing, especially in light of other congressional activities that are being forced through at breakneck speed.

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:
4 hours ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

At the expense of the citizens and businesses in our Country that NEED THE HELP

screw these politicians 

I agree

Congress is an absolute cesspool and has been for well over a decade.  A through deep cleansing is desperately needed for our country to move forward.  Far more so then even that disaster called the White House.  

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7 hours ago, timschochet said:

But my honest view is that the majority of trolling in this forum comes from Trump supporters. 

Being relatively new to this forum, I think the troll label gets thrown out far too much. Often I believe it’s a serious difference in perspective, but our personal realities are so different it’s sometimes hard to understand the other “side”.

Granted, a lot of the pro-Trump rhetoric is complete nonsense and easily disproven, but I think those guys honestly believe it. Most aren’t arguing just to get under our skin.

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5 hours ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

At the expense of the citizens and businesses in our Country that NEED THE HELP

screw these politicians 

Yep. This shouldn’t be about political gamesmanship.

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5 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

Yep. This shouldn’t be about political gamesmanship.

Everything is about political gamesmanship amongst politicians, particularly career politicians. Both sides. 

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1 minute ago, fruity pebbles said:

Everything is about political gamesmanship amongst politicians, particularly career politicians. Both sides. 

I agree. It’s sad 

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

And this belief is based on what exactly?

I believe that when the public gets frustrated with politicians it makes them less likely to vote and participate. I certainly hope I’m wrong though. 

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I believe that when the public gets frustrated with politicians it makes them less likely to vote and participate. I certainly hope I’m wrong though. 

So you're ignoring all the record paces being set?  Those votes are in already

Edited by The Commish

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2 hours ago, fruity pebbles said:

By the time the next stimulus bill is signed into law, it’ll be a year since the last one. Comical if it wasn’t so sad for so many people. 

I'll take the under. I don't how we wait until late March for the next stimulus bill.

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16 minutes ago, dgreen said:

I'll take the under. I don't how we wait until late March for the next stimulus bill.

I keep taking the under and it’s now been 7 months. I hope I’m wrong but don’t see how somethings agreed to until after Biden is sworn in end of January. 

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58 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

I keep taking the under and it’s now been 7 months. I hope I’m wrong but don’t see how somethings agreed to until after Biden is sworn in end of January. 

Neither do I.

Maybe the Senate decides to approve something after election to take some credit? Seems unlikely, but within range of outcomes?

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7 hours ago, massraider said:

Neither do I.

Maybe the Senate decides to approve something after election to take some credit? Seems unlikely, but within range of outcomes?

I think if Trump loses there are two roads they go. 
1. pass a stimulus so the democrats can’t take credit for it

2. make things as bad as possible so the incoming administration has a more difficult time. Trump is vindictive. 
 

Theoretically by the time Inauguration Day comes around we could have millions more without healthcare. I suppose we’ll see if they keep trying to change the SNAP program, which a federal judge just halted changes to. I’m sure there aren’t that many struggling families needing assistance. These are the priorities, also the same people who want to privatize social security and education. I doubt if they pass a stimulus it will be because they care about the people, because it’s pretty clear that they don’t. 

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Trump’s rhetoric is uglier than ever: more racist, more divisive: 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/19/politics/donald-trump-joe-biden-election-2020-coronavirus-fauci-masks/index.html

A few days ago I complained about how bad this forum has gotten lately, mostly, IMO, due to trolling by some Trump supporters. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this sort of behavior is being matched by Trump himself. I think they know they’re going to lose and are determined to make things as awful as possible. 

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If I woke up this morning from a 50 year coma and the first bit of news I learned, before anything else, that there are long lines of people waiting to vote two weeks before Election Day, I would conclude immediately that the nation is in grave crisis. 

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On 10/17/2020 at 9:08 PM, timschochet said:

This forum is worse than ever. Seriously there is no political discussion going on in any of the threads. Issues? What are those? 

Cross posting since I’m interested in your opinion (& others), and you are again in self-quarantine:

Debate Topics for Thursday

fighting Covid-19

American families

race in America

climate change

national security

leadership

Have we ever had a Presidential Election with less talk about Foreign Policy than the current one?

The Heritage Foundation defines national security is the safekeeping of the nation as a whole; its highest order of business is the protection of the nation and its people from attack and other external dangers by maintaining armed forces and guarding state secrets. So defense spending, intelligence....I would imagine Trump will want to expand this to include border security. 

 

The other thing that strikes me about this list of topics is how often Trump will, by default, be on the defensive. Now some of that should be expected for any incumbent; after all, you're mostly running on your record, not promises. But think about it:

Covid-19 is going to be a discussion of the poor response and how Biden's plan will differ, while Trump will try to maintain in fact his response was a 10/10.

American families - I would give the GOP the edge here? Because family values? Not even sure what this means. The disintegration of nuclear families? The shaky economic frailty so many feel? Help me out here.

Race - again, Trump will be defending his position (and am I wrong to think this has been covered ad nauseum the first two debates?), contrasting his law & order policy with "the radical left", et al.

Climate change - defending outliers versus trusting science. Again, I feel like Trump by default is going to look defensive.

Leadership - the disrupter versus Mr Rogers. Should be fun.

Bad take? Or do you agree somewhat?

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54 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

Cross posting since I’m interested in your opinion (& others), and you are again in self-quarantine:

Debate Topics for Thursday

fighting Covid-19

American families

race in America

climate change

national security

leadership

Have we ever had a Presidential Election with less talk about Foreign Policy than the current one?

The Heritage Foundation defines national security is the safekeeping of the nation as a whole; its highest order of business is the protection of the nation and its people from attack and other external dangers by maintaining armed forces and guarding state secrets. So defense spending, intelligence....I would imagine Trump will want to expand this to include border security. 

 

The other thing that strikes me about this list of topics is how often Trump will, by default, be on the defensive. Now some of that should be expected for any incumbent; after all, you're mostly running on your record, not promises. But think about it:

Covid-19 is going to be a discussion of the poor response and how Biden's plan will differ, while Trump will try to maintain in fact his response was a 10/10.

American families - I would give the GOP the edge here? Because family values? Not even sure what this means. The disintegration of nuclear families? The shaky economic frailty so many feel? Help me out here.

Race - again, Trump will be defending his position (and am I wrong to think this has been covered ad nauseum the first two debates?), contrasting his law & order policy with "the radical left", et al.

Climate change - defending outliers versus trusting science. Again, I feel like Trump by default is going to look defensive.

Leadership - the disrupter versus Mr Rogers. Should be fun.

Bad take? Or do you agree somewhat?

Agreed mostly. 
Usually the third debate is devoted to foreign policy (which is why so few people watch compared to the first 2) but since there’s no 2nd debate something’s gotta go and I guess it makes sense. Though I honestly don’t think there’s any point to discussing covid or race again- what new is Trump going to say on either of those subjects? 
Climate change will be the first time ever that Trump has publicly been challenged on this issue, which is the most important issue before us. After endless hours of press conferences, interviews, previous debates, we’re finally going to get 5 minutes of discussion on climate change. Amazing. And of course neither Trump nor Republicans in general want to discuss this because their position, that either they don’t think it exists, or that they support those who don’t think it exists, is unsustainable. 
No idea about American families. I expect Trump to try to talk about Hunter Biden. Hope the moderator cuts him off. 

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6 hours ago, timschochet said:

Trump’s rhetoric is uglier than ever: more racist, more divisive: 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/19/politics/donald-trump-joe-biden-election-2020-coronavirus-fauci-masks/index.html

A few days ago I complained about how bad this forum has gotten lately, mostly, IMO, due to trolling by some Trump supporters. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this sort of behavior is being matched by Trump himself. I think they know they’re going to lose and are determined to make things as awful as possible. 

Link to people on this board doing what you suggest?

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6 hours ago, timschochet said:

Trump’s rhetoric is uglier than ever: more racist, more divisive: 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/19/politics/donald-trump-joe-biden-election-2020-coronavirus-fauci-masks/index.html

A few days ago I complained about how bad this forum has gotten lately, mostly, IMO, due to trolling by some Trump supporters. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this sort of behavior is being matched by Trump himself. I think they know they’re going to lose and are determined to make things as awful as possible. 

Wait and see what he does between Nov 4th and Jan 20th after he loses.

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Agreed mostly. 
Usually the third debate is devoted to foreign policy (which is why so few people watch compared to the first 2) but since there’s no 2nd debate something’s gotta go and I guess it makes sense. Though I honestly don’t think there’s any point to discussing covid or race again- what new is Trump going to say on either of those subjects? 
Climate change will be the first time ever that Trump has publicly been challenged on this issue, which is the most important issue before us. After endless hours of press conferences, interviews, previous debates, we’re finally going to get 5 minutes of discussion on climate change. Amazing. And of course neither Trump nor Republicans in general want to discuss this because their position, that either they don’t think it exists, or that they support those who don’t think it exists, is unsustainable. 
No idea about American families. I expect Trump to try to talk about Hunter Biden. Hope the moderator cuts him off. 

Good point on the reason the theme of #3 shifted, somehow I didn't consider that (we did after all have dueling town halls.)

Maybe I'm off base here but it seems like most of these topics - at least 4, probably 5 - are a huge advantage for Team Blue. The last one, American Families, none of us can figure out. Everything else, you could build an entire progressive speech around: pandemic response, racial protests/refusing to condemn extremists, being on the side of science with respect to the environment, $13B diverted from the military to build a wall that won't work - or maybe talk about separating families & locking up kids in cages - and leadership so far outside of the norm it is embarrassing.

Just cannot see how Trump can stay on topic and win any of these topics.

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

“Fauci and all these idiots”- Yikes. 

Biden should use this in the debate.

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23 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Link to people on this board doing what you suggest?

Nope. We discussed this the other day. Read some of the other threads. If you refuse to see it I can’t really help you do so. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Nope. We discussed this the other day. Read some of the other threads. If you refuse to see it I can’t really help you do so. 

So a false claim that racist, divisive rhetoric exists here like with Trump?

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4 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

So a false claim that racist, divisive rhetoric exists here like with Trump?

Nope. I stand by it. 

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28 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:
1 hour ago, timschochet said:

“Fauci and all these idiots”- Yikes. 

Biden should use this in the debate.

The more I think about it, the more I understand why President Trump resorted to interruptions, talking over the top of Biden and the moderators, bullying tactics, et al, during the first debate. The longer he goes trying to explain a position, the more nonsensical his answers become. He simply doesn't understand anything of nuance. He cannot articulate the simplest of policy positions. Going full bluster is in fact his best tactic. 

This was never more apparent than in the dueling town halls. Biden took his time answering, making sure he covered all relevant points, almost always asked the questioner "did that answer your question?" or "do I need to explain more?" Even stayed after the cameras were off to answer more questions or circle back on topics. Meanwhile Trump looked like he was spoiling for a fight all night, and the word salads that came out weren't anything close to being cogent. The more he talks the worse he makes himself look.

Edited by BobbyLayne

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Just a hunch for now, but Trump seems to be angling to back out of the final debate. The campaign is currently looking to blame the debate commission, but if something better comes up he’ll use it to back out.

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53 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Nope. I stand by it. 

Without a link I consider this to be trolling on your part

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45 minutes ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

Just a hunch for now, but Trump seems to be angling to back out of the final debate. The campaign is currently looking to blame the debate commission, but if something better comes up he’ll use it to back out.

Maybe - I think Trump would do anything that he thinks will help him win.  One thing you have to maybe give Trump credit for as a politician is not being tied to any one strategy or old school thinking.  He will pivot on a dime if he thinks he'll gain an advantage.  But I think the "he thinks" part comes solely from his gut.  And I still think he guts tells him that he looks strong on the debate stage doing what he did during the first debate - despite most of us saying it was a train wreck. 

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14 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Maybe - I think Trump would do anything that he thinks will help him win.  One thing you have to maybe give Trump credit for as a politician is not being tied to any one strategy or old school thinking.  He will pivot on a dime if he thinks he'll gain an advantage.  But I think the "he thinks" part comes solely from his gut.  And I still think he guts tells him that he looks strong on the debate stage doing what he did during the first debate - despite most of us saying it was a train wreck. 

He should really drop out of the 3rd debate.  He is not capable of giving Joe the chance to make himself look bad.  Trump is a true bully, and he doesn't know how to handle things when he gets punched in the nose.  He ends up interrupting, speaking over people, and adding insults because he has this perception that he looked weak for a few seconds.  He cannot contain himself.  He has to be the Alpha Male at all costs, and he just doesn't get how pathetic it looks.

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33 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Without a link I consider this to be trolling on your part

That’s fine 

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54 minutes ago, timschochet said:

That’s fine 

He's not wrong though. If one is going to make accusations like that, back them up with a link or quote. Thanks. 

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5 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

He's not wrong though. If one is going to make accusations like that, back them up with a link or quote. Thanks. 

Except that I didn’t make a specific accusation. What I offered was a general compliant that the tone in this forum has gotten ugly in recent days, from some Trump supporters (certainly not all) and it’s matching Trump’s own tone. 

I probably shouldn’t have used the word racist. Trump’s recent statements have been racist and I absolutely stand by that, but I didn’t mean to accuse any supporters here of making specific racist statements, just ugly ones. I apologize for conflating the two. 

But I’m not offering specific examples because I don’t want to get into a discussion of what defines ugly. IMO the whole Hunter Biden story is ugly, it’s in the mud sleaze and anyone who persists in bringing it up is trolling. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Except that I didn’t make a specific accusation. What I offered was a general compliant that the tone in this forum has gotten ugly in recent days, from some Trump supporters (certainly not all) and it’s matching Trump’s own tone. 

I probably shouldn’t have used the word racist. Trump’s recent statements have been racist and I absolutely stand by that, but I didn’t mean to accuse any supporters here of making specific racist statements, just ugly ones. I apologize for conflating the two. 

But I’m not offering specific examples because I don’t want to get into a discussion of what defines ugly. IMO the whole Hunter Biden story is ugly, it’s in the mud sleaze and anyone who persists in bringing it up is trolling. 

That's an accusation and you know it. 

You are correct and you're absolutely conflating the two. 

Please don't do that anymore and let's move on. I'm so beyond sick of all this. 

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1 minute ago, Joe Bryant said:

That's an accusation and you know it. 

You are correct and you're absolutely conflating the two. 

Please don't do that anymore and let's move on. I'm so beyond sick of all this. 

I did conflate the two and I apologize for it. I’m happy to move on. 

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5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I read earlier they were on the phone for an hour today, incremental progress. Doesn’t sound like they’re close & McConnell’s office said there’s two other bills in front of it in the queue (more small business loans package and sumtin’ sumtin.) Not on the same as the WH.

 

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On 10/18/2020 at 9:21 PM, massraider said:

Neither do I.

Maybe the Senate decides to approve something after election to take some credit? Seems unlikely, but within range of outcomes?

This may by too cynical, but what good does credit do after an election?

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