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timschochet’s political thoughts and commentary- back in here until the election is done (2 Viewers)

Sneegor said:
You yourself have stated that if Trump wins how can the public expect to believe the polls anymore.
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No I wrote that they would lose their trust in the accuracy of the polls- I never suggested they would believe the pollsters were deliberately lying to them. No offense but I regard that as a nonsensical position. 

 
timschochet said:
No I wrote that they would lose their trust in the accuracy of the polls- I never suggested they would believe the pollsters were deliberately lying to them. No offense but I regard that as a nonsensical position. 
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Yeah...its not a serious position...can't be.  Seems its being made to try and illicit the reaction its getting.

 
I'm so anti-unwanted phone call that IF called by a pollster I can promise I'd be as elusive and opposite of my actual intentions as possible. It's probably because as a business owner I'm bombarded by services that want to offer their assistance in parting me from my money. I hold the belief that if I wanted you to know my opinion or if I wanted to give you my business, I'd find you. Unsolicited phone calls should really be a dead trade by now given technological advancements. I'm never rude to these people but I'm not giving them anything useful either. Here's how my most recent exchange went...

Unwanted Service Provider: Hi Mr Anon, I'm Marilyn with XYZ Assitant! If I had qualified clients for you and send them your way, would you commit to answering the phone?

Me: Nope

Unwanted Service Provider: You're still active and licensed in the field of ABC, right?

Me: Yep

Unwanted Service Provider: Sounds like we should talk more about our product. Takes just a few minutes. Is now ok?

Me: Nope

Unwanted Service Provider: Let's see if you even qualify first.

Me: Laughing

Unwanted Service Provider: Can I qualify you now?

Me: Nope

So yes, there are people like myself and others who aren't giving these pollsters anything useful. I'm on the DNC list and yet it stops no one. To me, if you're exempt or ignoring the DNC list and calling me anyway, I'm not going to berate you, but I am going to waste your time.

 
Mr Anonymous said:
So yes, there are people like myself and others who aren't giving these pollsters anything useful. I'm on the DNC list and yet it stops no one. To me, if you're exempt or ignoring the DNC list and calling me anyway, I'm not going to berate you, but I am going to waste your time.
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Just FYI, DNC list specifically excludes political calls and polling.

 
sho nuff said:
Yeah...its not a serious position...can't be.  Seems its being made to try and illicit the reaction its getting.
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If Trump loses Tuesday night as I suspect will happen, I hope that @Sneegor and some of the other more adamant Trump supporters will stick around and discuss issues and how best to move forward. I fear that at least some of them may simply disappear. 

 
Mr Anonymous said:
I'm so anti-unwanted phone call that IF called by a pollster I can promise I'd be as elusive and opposite of my actual intentions as possible. It's probably because as a business owner I'm bombarded by services that want to offer their assistance in parting me from my money. I hold the belief that if I wanted you to know my opinion or if I wanted to give you my business, I'd find you. Unsolicited phone calls should really be a dead trade by now given technological advancements. I'm never rude to these people but I'm not giving them anything useful either. Here's how my most recent exchange went...

Unwanted Service Provider: Hi Mr Anon, I'm Marilyn with XYZ Assitant! If I had qualified clients for you and send them your way, would you commit to answering the phone?

Me: Nope

Unwanted Service Provider: You're still active and licensed in the field of ABC, right?

Me: Yep

Unwanted Service Provider: Sounds like we should talk more about our product. Takes just a few minutes. Is now ok?

Me: Nope

Unwanted Service Provider: Let's see if you even qualify first.

Me: Laughing

Unwanted Service Provider: Can I qualify you now?

Me: Nope

So yes, there are people like myself and others who aren't giving these pollsters anything useful. I'm on the DNC list and yet it stops no one. To me, if you're exempt or ignoring the DNC list and calling me anyway, I'm not going to berate you, but I am going to waste your time.
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You stay on the phone longer than I do. 

 
Rich Conway said:
Just FYI, DNC list specifically excludes political calls and polling.
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That's why I said, I don't care if they're exempt. Nothing should be exempt. The fact that so many things are exempt is why the DNC list is useless. So since they can legally call me, I'm not seeking out some government agency to report them, I'm just making it a waste of their time.

 
one time i sang brandy by looking glass to a telescammarketer and i dont like to brag but when i was done they clapped and said they would stop being a scammer and they became a priest take that to the bank brohans 

 
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timschochet said:
If Trump loses Tuesday night as I suspect will happen, I hope that @Sneegor and some of the other more adamant Trump supporters will stick around and discuss issues and how best to move forward. I fear that at least some of them may simply disappear. 
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I think, in that scenario, those who disappear were never here to have any serious discussion to begin with.  So I don't fear that type of person disappearing.

 
Sneegor said:
Does that go for folks that jumped ship at FFToday as well?
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Nope...and no need to try and take pot shots.

Plenty of people left there for many reasons.  My reasoning (without saying more as Joe does not want us talking about it)...was not because I was not there for any actual serious discussion.

 
Joe Bryant said:
This is the kind of post I hope we have way less of. 
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Im not gloating or saying anything bad about people joe...but I believe there are those here on either side who are not here to engage in honest and serious discussion.  

If someone just leaves because Trump lost...was that person really here to do more than antagonize someone?  If they are being run off by others...yes, I would say that is bad.  If they leave on their own because they are incapable of having serious discussion after a Trump loss...were they really here for anything that helps the discourse of the board?  That is where I am coming from...not sure Im making it very clear though.  I think its better for the board if people who are not here to do more than get a reaction don't come around...would that be better to say?

 
sho nuff said:
Im not gloating or saying anything bad about people joe...but I believe there are those here on either side who are not here to engage in honest and serious discussion.  

If someone just leaves because Trump lost...was that person really here to do more than antagonize someone?  If they are being run off by others...yes, I would say that is bad.  If they leave on their own because they are incapable of having serious discussion after a Trump loss...were they really here for anything that helps the discourse of the board?  That is where I am coming from...not sure Im making it very clear though.  I think its better for the board if people who are not here to do more than get a reaction don't come around...would that be better to say?
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If I were a Trump supporter and he loses tomorrow, there's no place I'd rather not be than this forum. For Tim to think people will stick around to watch the gloating and then for it to be suggested that if they don't stick around for the gloating they probably weren't even really a supporter is just gross. Please don't go near that. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
If I were a Trump supporter and he loses tomorrow, there's no place I'd rather not be than this forum. For Tim to think people will stick around to watch the gloating and then for it to be suggested that if they don't stick around for the gloating they probably weren't even really a supporter is just gross. Please don't go near that. 
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Ok...sure and I understand your sentiment.  And apologies if my post came off saying this in the bolded...that was certainly not my intent.  (and as we can see I have agree in the no gloating thread that I would not participate in any such thing.

It was more of a general statement that I believe there are some here that are here to antagonize...including some waiting for their few seconds to gloat before they end up getting suspended (and yes this goes for both sides)...and in the event of their guy losing, they may not stick around.

I still may not be clear in what seems pretty tame in my head...so I will drop it.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
For Tim to think people will stick around to watch the gloating and then for it to be suggested that if they don't stick around for the gloating they probably weren't even really a supporter is just gross.
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That’s not what I wrote, or implied. 

I won’t be gloating if Trump loses and I won’t be crying if he wins (though I will certainly eat a lot of crow.) We have a lot of problems in this country, starting with Covid, and they will be problems no matter who wins. All I wrote is that I was hoping Trump supporters will stick around and that I feared some will not. 

 
The Commish said:
I just don't buy this "shy voter" shtick any more.  I get it when we weren't sure what Trump would do policy wise and when we were at the "well, it can't be any worse than it is right now, right?" phase.  That sort of lackluster support isn't something anyone should really be proud of, but now?  I mean, we have all these rallies where it's relatively easy to identify people but somehow the anonymous phone call is going to "scare" them?  It makes exactly zero logical sense.
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I think “shy” has changed to “lie” to pollsters if you’re a Trump voter. But that doesn’t make sense either, as we’ve repeatedly been told they’re about integrity and substance, so why hide their intentions?

 
The Commish said:
Every conversation I observe around polling and statistics makes me realize how we've failed at teaching basic concepts to our young people early and often in life...especially in math.
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I’ve posted this sentiment a couple times in the FFA Covid thread. Educational shortcomings in math/statistics, science and history have all been exposed by the pandemic.

 
Biden voters include myself, my wife, my two daughters, my sister in law, my niece, one neighbor, my office manager, my accountant. 

Trump voters include my father in law, his lovely wife, my brother in law, most of my neighbors, my trainer, my attorney. 

So far we all seem to get along well. There’s certainly been, among some of these people I just listed, some argument, some acrimony. But no bad feelings, no real anger- yet. Hopefully that will continue after tomorrow night whatever the result. 

 
What depresses me most about all of this is all the people, on both sides, who are acting like this election is Armageddon. The politicians are at fault, particularly Obama, whom I admire, and Trump, whom I despise. But both of them have been consistently saying this is the most important election ever, in order to save democracy (for the Democrats) or freedom (for the Republicans). And it’s all a load of crap. 

If Trump wins again it will be another 4 years of his clownish behavior, corruption, and incompetence. But we’ll muddle through it. The Republic isn’t going anywhere and neither is the Constitution. If Trump goes too far in any direction the courts, or Congress, or public opinion will stop him. Besides, Trump is far more interested in settling personal scores than he is in setting up some sort of authoritarian dictatorship. Don’t get me wrong, it will be an awful time. But it also won’t be the end of the country. 

If Biden wins, we’re not going to become the next socialist paradise. I can’t believe I even have to write that. But let me take it further: if there was a terrorist attack and Biden, Harris, and half of Congress were killed and Ihlan Omar or AOC was the Designated Survivor, we’re still not going to become the next socialist paradise. The public doesn’t want it. There will be, under the Democrats, more spending and more taxes and more controls, but if they go too far the Republicans will just win the next election and move us back to the center. We are at heart a centrist nation with elasticity: sometimes we stretch to the right, sometimes to the left, but we can’t stretch too far without snapping back to the middle. 
 

So everybody needs to calm down. It’s going to be all right. 

 
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timschochet said:
Besides, Trump is far more interested in settling personal scores than he is in setting up some sort of authoritarian dictatorship.
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How does a President go about settling personal scores without setting up some sort of authoritarian dictatorship? Is there a better way I haven't thought of?

 
Joe Bryant said:
If I were a Trump supporter and he loses tomorrow, there's no place I'd rather not be than this forum. For Tim to think people will stick around to watch the gloating and then for it to be suggested that if they don't stick around for the gloating they probably weren't even really a supporter is just gross. Please don't go near that. 
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I dont spend much time here but do on fb......if somehow biden loses I wont be on fb much,   not because I dont want to discuss poliics but because I KNOW wihout a shadow of a dubt it will be all gloating and no serious discussion.   

 
da_budman said:
I dont spend much time here but do on fb......if somehow biden loses I wont be on fb much,   not because I dont want to discuss poliics but because I KNOW wihout a shadow of a dubt it will be all gloating and no serious discussion.   
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Is there serious discussion on FB?  I guess some would say the same here, I disagree.

But what I have seen on FB is someone posts something...and within 2-3 comments there are some heated exchanges and largely hyperbolic (at best) claims if not outright lies about different things.

 
I agree that "shy Trump voter" is a thing.  I live in a purple, leaning slightly red, town in a very blue state.  The official town GOP party headquarters isn't even acknowledging that Trump is running.  No signs, nothing.  As I drive around town, I've seen exactly 3 houses with Trump signs, even though the signs for the GOP local state rep candidate outnumber the D candidate 3 to 1.  Outside the polling location today, not a single Trump sign, but the local GOP party was canvassing and had signs outnumbering the opponent easily 10 to 1.  No mention of Trump.  I continue to contend it's because they are embarrassed because they know voting for him is morally wrong.

Interestingly, I also counted houses with American flags next to the candidate signs.  I'd estimate that about 50% of houses with local GOP candidate signs have an American flag next to it, while fewer than 10% of houses with D signs have American flags next to them.  Almost like virtue signaling "I'm really voting for Trump, just embarrassed to admit it."

Edit: I'm hoping to find time to walk down to GOP HQ this afternoon and ask why they aren't promoting Trump.  If I get a straight answer, I'll update.

 
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timschochet said:
What depresses me most about all of this is all the people, on both sides, who are acting like this election is Armageddon. The politicians are at fault, particularly Obama, whom I admire, and Trump, whom I despise. But both of them have been consistently saying this is the most important election ever, in order to save democracy (for the Democrats) or freedom (for the Republicans). And it’s all a load of crap. 

If Trump wins again it will be another 4 years of his clownish behavior, corruption, and incompetence. But we’ll muddle through it. The Republic isn’t going anywhere and neither is the Constitution. If Trump goes too far in any direction the courts, or Congress, or public opinion will stop him. Besides, Trump is far more interested in settling personal scores than he is in setting up some sort of authoritarian dictatorship. Don’t get me wrong, it will be an awful time. But it also won’t be the end of the country. 

If Biden wins, we’re not going to become the next socialist paradise. I can’t believe I even have to write that. But let me take it further: if there was a terrorist attack and Biden, Harris, and half of Congress were killed and Ihlan Omar or AOC was the Designated Survivor, we’re still not going to become the next socialist paradise. The public doesn’t want it. There will be, under the Democrats, more spending and more taxes and more controls, but if they go too far the Republicans will just win the next election and move us back to the center. We are at heart a centrist nation with elasticity: sometimes we stretch to the right, sometimes to the left, but we can’t stretch too far without snapping back to the middle. 
 

So everybody needs to calm down. It’s going to be all right. 
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That hasn't been the case the first 4 years. Why would you expect it to be different the 2nd 4 years?

 
Sneegor said:
Not embarrassed, worried at lunatics vandalizing their house.  That is me.  I have seen lunatics here in AZ removing Trump signs and vandalizing.  No thank you.  

Conversely, I think poorly of the folks who choose to put up a Biden/Harris sign.  My neighbors across the street did and it tells me all I need to know about them.
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I can guarantee you no one in this town is worried about their house being vandalized because of Trump signs or otherwise.  Within the past 10 years, it was literally distinguished as "safest town in America".  Full disclosure, I don't know who distinguished it as such or how the determination was made, but it was official enough that the town uses it in official government info.

Do you also think the official town GOP headquarters, on Main St., is worried about being vandalized?  And people are worried about their signs being vandalized outside the polling location on election day?

 
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Sneegor said:
Conversely, I think poorly of the folks who choose to put up a Biden/Harris sign.  My neighbors across the street did and it tells me all I need to know about them.
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That's too bad. Do you know them at all, or are they more like "occasionally wave 'hi' across the street" neighbors?

 
My city is boarded up like a Category 5 is about to hit. Banks, hotels, restaurants, retail flagships - plywood sales must have skyrocketed at Home Depot & Lowe's last week (yep, even NYC has big box stores now.)

Anybody else feel like they are living in a postapocalyptic world today?

 
Sneegor said:
Thanks, I was speaking more to my experience here in AZ.  Nonetheless I don't know of any embarrassed Trump voters as the enthusiasm for Trump voters compared to Biden voters is off the charts.
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Here in South Carolina, I'm a bit embarrassed to be a Biden supporter.  I wouldn't put a Biden bumper sticker on my car out of fear of getting keyed, nor would I put up a Biden sign in my yard out of fear of vandalism.

trump folks are not at all scared to show their support - there are a number of trump flags flying around my 'hood.

 
BobbyLayne said:
My city is boarded up like a Category 5 is about to hit. Banks, hotels, restaurants, retail flagships - plywood sales must have skyrocketed at Home Depot & Lowe's last week (yep, even NYC has big box stores now.)

Anybody else feel like they are living in a postapocalyptic world today?
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Thats crazy, and sad. What a time to be alive 😐

 
BobbyLayne said:
I don't expect any unrest or violence, at least not here. Actually meeting some friends in Times Square late tonight.

But it''s 2020, probably smart to err on the side of caution.
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Yea after everything that's gone on this year I can't really say I blame them. 

Sounds like a cool way to spend election day though. I haven't been down there in a few years, but definitely want to if/when this covid mess clears up. Stay safe! 

 
KiddLattimer said:
Yea after everything that's gone on this year I can't really say I blame them. 

Sounds like a cool way to spend election day though. I haven't been down there in a few years, but definitely want to if/when this covid mess clears up. Stay safe! 
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Thanks!

It's personal for me. Quite by accident I ended up there (Times Square) on November 8, 2016. I was on my way home, had voted at 6am. Was working on a big project at the office, kind of lost track of time. Left work at 10:30 p.m.

At the time I worked across the street from Bryant Park and lived in the low west 40s. On a whim, I decided to head up Broadway. Hadn't listened to news all day, but why would I? Hillary was a stone cold lock. But it would be kind of cool to see how people were feeling in this historic moment.

I knew everyone would be asleep when I got home. I was looking forward to telling my 8 y.o. daughter the next morning we finally have a girl President. She had really been getting into it, I was already thinking about her squeal of delight. I was a block away from Times Square, thinking to myself "I can't believe I've seen a black President and a female President inside of a decade. This is so amazing."

Then I crossed 42nd Street...

 
Ok, this is freaking me out a little. Tim, if you aren’t posting all over this site, things just aren’t right in the world. No one puts Baby in the corner. 

 
timschochet said:
This is the first year in this country since 1945 in which, as a general rule, things here have not been as good or better than the year before. 
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wat

OPEC-energy crisis-gas rationing / Watergate-Nixon resigns / Iran hostage crisis / double digit unemployment & double digit interest rates AT THE SAME TIME

IDK bro I gotta think  1973-1982 had one or two bad years

 
BobbyLayne said:
Thanks!

It's personal for me. Quite by accident I ended up there (Times Square) on November 8, 2016. I was on my way home, had voted at 6am. Was working on a big project at the office, kind of lost track of time. Left work at 10:30 p.m.

At the time I worked across the street from Bryant Park and lived in the low west 40s. On a whim, I decided to head up Broadway. Hadn't listened to news all day, but why would I? Hillary was a stone cold lock. But it would be kind of cool to see how people were feeling in this historic moment.

I knew everyone would be asleep when I got home. I was looking forward to telling my 8 y.o. daughter the next morning we finally have a girl President. She had really been getting into it, I was already thinking about her squeal of delight. I was a block away from Times Square, thinking to myself "I can't believe I've seen a black President and a female President inside of a decade. This is so amazing."

Then I crossed 42nd Street...
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My daughter was 6 in 2016.  I had shared similar excitement with her.  Instead, she learned a hard lesson early in life.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
My daughter was 6 in 2016.  I had shared similar excitement with her.  Instead, she learned a hard lesson early in life.  
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mine came rushing out to the kitchen at 6am on November 9.

"Did Hillary win?"

We spent the next 20 minutes on the couch, her crying while I held her. She wanted a girl president.

 
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