Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I think it's more than conservatives who think it. Many moderates, independents and centrists like myself believe it as well. It's pretty obvious, after all. It's just a matter of how strong you think that bias is.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
timschochet’s political thoughts and commentary- back in here until the election is done (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Tim dug his heels in this one a long time ago. If you can't see gross bias in the way these riots are reported and the complete display of extreme wokism being force feed to the masses 24/7, i am not sure there is s point of debatung it. The belief seems to be that being woke /PC is morally correct way to view things and is not a bias.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
This is why it is even worse what they have done.
These days if you see a photographer on the beach with a lens the size of a whiskey barrel you can bet your paycheck they are trying to make it look more crowded so they can post an article with a crowded beach photo.
caustic
Footballguy
I remember you saying multiple times that an election which is a referendum on Trump is a favorable one for Democrats. I agree, since Trump is historically unpopular. But even with an unpopular opponent, it’s important to at least provide a policy contrast with them instead of just bashing them for being an #######. According to that study I shared earlier, “contrast” advertising was just 1% of Dems’ ads.
Here’s a study that looked at 2016 ads: https://www.degruyter.com/view/journals/for/14/4/article-p445.xml
“...Evidence suggests that negativity in advertising can have a backlash effect on the sponsor (Pinkleton 1997) and that personally-focused, trait-based negative messages (especially those that are uncivil) tend to be seen as less fair, less informative and less important than more substantive, policy-based messaging (Fridkin and Geer 1994; Brooks and Geer 2007).
In stark contrast to any prior presidential cycle for which we have Kantar Media/CMAG data, the Clinton campaign overwhelmingly chose to focus on Trump’s personality and fitness for office (in a sense, doubling down on the news media’s focus), leaving very little room for discussion in advertising of the reasons why Clinton herself was the better choice. Trump, on the other hand, provided explicit policy-based contrasts, highlighting his strengths and Clinton’s weaknesses, a strategy that research suggests voters find helpful in decision-making (Mattes and Redlawsk 2014).
These strategic differences may have meant that Clinton was more prone to voter backlash and did nothing to overcome the media’s lack of focus on Clinton’s policy knowledge, especially for residents of Michigan and Wisconsin, in particular, who were receiving policy-based (and specifically economically-focused) messaging from Trump.”
What frustrates me is that Democrats have a huge advantage in that their economic/healthcare platform is largely popular while the GOP’s isn’t — the absolute peak of Trump’s unpopularity came back in 2017 when he passed the tax cuts. But instead of acting on this, they seem content attacking Trump’s fitness for office.
Polls already show that 50%+ of people have decided not to vote for Trump under any circumstances this November. That’s great for Dems, but now they need to convince those people to actually come out and vote for Biden. The Biden team has some popular policy ideas, Democrats should emphasize that!
Last edited by a moderator:
This story should be pretty easy to understand. Pelosi is a hypocrite and got caught. Is it shocking to find out that she is living by different rules that she expects others to? In the big picture, I'm not outraged. It's almost the opposite. If she wasn't doing things like this, I'd be surprised and she isn't the only one.timschochet said:
Have you watched the few questions that are asked of Biden or Harris?
If you have any doubt watch Biden's Friday press conference or Dana Bash "interviewing" Kamala Harris.
The riots are a great point or are they peaceful protests? It wasn't until Trump starting going off on Portland did it get more attention and then Trump is blamed by the media for the riots. Ridiculous.
timschochet
Footballguy
Lol I don’t regard this as an accurate representation of my POV but I think you know that.
timschochet
Footballguy
I do have doubt; and I watched both interviews you’re referring to. The doubt didn’t go away.
What questions would you have asked of Biden or Harris which you apparently believe the media avoided?
timschochet
Footballguy
Really?
I guess I see things differently. Trump has been an absolute gold mine for the media, making more money for them than any other political person probably in American history. It will be awful for the media when Trump is no longer relevant. The analogy that comes to mind is Tiger Woods. Golf ratings were fine before Tiger, but they went through the roof when he was great, and fell back when he stopped being great.
If you want to argue that most journalists in MSM are liberal types who would never vote for Trump I can’t disagree with you there. But I personally think that, perhaps because of this, they go out of their way to be overly fair to the guy. Too fair at times iMO, they don’t contradict his lies nearly enough.
There's a million things the media should be asking, especially since the campaign has been protecting them. You'd think they'd be interested in getting to some of the specifics instead of asking them what they think of Trump.
For starters, I'd love to know from Harris if she believes Biden is a racist. She all but made that accusation when she was running against him. Was she lying then or lying now?
I'd love to know how they plan on handling the coronavirus with specifics vs. responding to what Trump has said or done. What specifically would they do differently?
Why did Biden run a commercial saying all Black people wake up fearing for their lives each day? Provide the fact check to those claims.
I'd love for Biden to explain how his tax plan will actually work? He says no taxes raised on those making less than $125K. Explain how that will work. How does he plan on handing the debt?
I'd like for them to be asked questions that aren't softballs aimed for them to slap at Trump. We already know they don't like Trump.
Hopefully the debates will force them to answer questions, but I'm not holding my breath.
timschochet
Footballguy
Several of the questions you’re asking have already been raised. Let me offer my own opinion:
1. Harris has said she never called him a racist, she merely disagreed with his stance on busing.
MY TAKE- She certainly hinted he was a racist; it was a ploy to advance herself. She’ll never admit it now.
2. Biden has offered specifics. Full deployment of the DPA, you can go on his website to learn the rest.
MY TAKE- the damage is done. I certainly blame Trump for incompetence but from this point forward it’s not going to make too much difference whoever is in charge. I expect a vaccine for everybody by next summer. 400,000 Americans will have died by then.
3. Claims about what black people fear is not something that can be quantified. I generally agree with Bidens claim.
4. Biden will raise taxes and it’s a good idea. He won’t reduce the debt because he plans to spend the money, and more money on top of that. He won’t say that though. Neither Democrats nor Republicans have any plans to cut spending whatsoever. The debt will increase greatly no matter who wins.
1. She didn't merely disagree. There was an accusation there. She literally released campaign merchandise on that staged attack. I'd like to understand how she could support somebody that evil. Unless, of course, she didn't believe her own charges.
2. What specifics has he offered? He's going to have a mask recommendation and hope that the governors all get along after the election? Great. He's going to release more supplies? If you're talking about blaming Trump, what would Biden have done specifically different? How would have have stopped this virus from spreading? Answer that with specifics. Have a national plan? Make more equipment? Governors (and the media) were very clear that Trump can't tell governors what to do. Attacking Trump is not a policy, but it works politically.
3. If Trump had made a similar claim, there would be a much more series attempt at fact checking that statement. Biden made a ridiculous statement that can't be backed up with facts but, no worry, he won't be asked about it.
4.Raising taxes in the middle of a government lockdown is a good idea? Who is going to pay for those higher taxes? The middle class or the people being taxed. I agree with you that there are no serious plans to reduce the debt right now. How are we going to pay for all the new plans Biden and Harris want without raising taxes on everyone?
We can go on and on, but the fact they are getting away with not answering questions on policy. As long as we all agree that Trump is horrible though....
caustic
Footballguy
Should also note that Biden never said *every single* Black American wakes up fearing for their lives. The quote was, “Why in this nation do Black Americans wake up knowing that they could lose their life in the course of just living their life?” Then Ben Shapiro responded with a snarky tweet asking for proof that all 42 million Black Americans do this every day, and it took off in conservative circles.
timschochet
Footballguy
It would take too long to respond to each of your points and obviously we look at things from very different perspectives.
But as to your last sentence: the main reason I wanted Biden in the first place is because he’s bland. He’s got no real plan to do anything and since my main goal is to defeat Trump, that’s a good thing. A candidate like Bernie or Warren would allow the Republicans to focus on them. You can’t focus on Biden; he’s a placeholder. He is the “alternative”, the not-Trump. That’s the main reason he will win.
msommer
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Kind of comical that he takes issue that you "dig in your heels" with "yes, I can see their point of view, I just disagree with it". That's fully entrenched apparently. What a world we live in. Either agree with me or you're "dug in" on the total opposite POV.
timschochet
Footballguy
Even before the pandemic, I predicted that Trump would lose the election so long as Bernie Sanders wasn’t his opponent. My main reasoning was exhaustion; I figured the public would just be tired of the whole thing.
In another thread this morning, @rockaction stated things pretty clearly. rock is a great guy but he is no liberal and he and I disagree pretty strongly on a wide number of issues, especially the media (he HATES the media with a passion and absolutely does not trust them). But he wrote that he was tired of Trump and wanted him to go away. I think millions of Americans all across the political spectrum feel this way.
One thing most Americans have in common- they hate hearing about politics all the time. We here in the PSF are the exception- we’re mostly political junkies in here. But the vast majority would prefer not to have to hear about politicians all the time. Trump is too much in their face; he’s by far the most ubiquitous person in American history. They need a break. This is why it was a huge mistake for Trump to label Biden as “Sleepy Joe.” Sleepy sounds attractive- Americans don’t mind if Joe needs to take a nap. They’ll gladly take it with him.
In another thread this morning, @rockaction stated things pretty clearly. rock is a great guy but he is no liberal and he and I disagree pretty strongly on a wide number of issues, especially the media (he HATES the media with a passion and absolutely does not trust them). But he wrote that he was tired of Trump and wanted him to go away. I think millions of Americans all across the political spectrum feel this way.
One thing most Americans have in common- they hate hearing about politics all the time. We here in the PSF are the exception- we’re mostly political junkies in here. But the vast majority would prefer not to have to hear about politicians all the time. Trump is too much in their face; he’s by far the most ubiquitous person in American history. They need a break. This is why it was a huge mistake for Trump to label Biden as “Sleepy Joe.” Sleepy sounds attractive- Americans don’t mind if Joe needs to take a nap. They’ll gladly take it with him.
rockaction
Footballguy
Thanks for the shout-out, tim, but I wouldn't overstate my dislike of the media. I trust reasonably sourced media. I trust the front pages and the fact sections, etc. What I do not trust is mass media narrative. That's a big, big distincition. IOW, you're not going to find me saying dumb #### about COVID. I'm going from experts and consensus. That level of distrust has been stunning to me, by even members of my own kin. I clarify simply because my position is not as you might state so strongly here. It's quite the opposite. I'm one of those, "you're not entitled to your own facts" type of guys, guys that conservatives now think are liberals because we discount conspiracy theories and have had enough tomfoolery around this administration.
But I digress. You're right about the tired nature of all things Trump.
I started a thread back in 2017 or 2018 asking people if they were already feeling the fatigue from Trump's daily tweets, musings, etc. I said it felt like Carter must have in 1979. Ivan has often taken the lead on saying he's tired of it, so I'm sort of influenced by him, really, too. At least, I'm not the only person that feels this way. Plus, it's not just wanting politics to go away; it's wanting the nasty Trumpian politics of personal destruction (Bill Clinton never had it so good) to be put to bed for good. Lest I be accused of being unfair, for about forty years it was the politics of personal destruction working the other way, from Goldwater to Reagan and on through to Romney. Goose, I'd rather you never met gander.
There are people who don't pay attention to politics and are generally annoyed when the subject is brought up -- which is how I am with baseball.
But I also think there are a lot of people who get up in the morning, turn on Fox News, grumble to themselves about how stupid AOC is (which matters because she's pulling Biden's strings), and then proceed to talk politics with anyone they come across who shares their views (but not otherwise). These people love hearing about politics all the time as long as it is from their own trusted sources, not from the mainstream media.
I also think this is a relatively new phenomenon.
Last edited by a moderator:
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Yes, definitely sick of the daily attack on some part of America, attacks meant to divide us. Enough is enough. It’s tiresome as much as it is dangerous.
timschochet
Footballguy
Kamala Harris has an annoying high pitched voice.
Compared to all other considerations this is really minor. She appears to be quite competent and I think she’ll probably make a pretty good VP and eventually President.
But all the same I wish she had a different voice.
Compared to all other considerations this is really minor. She appears to be quite competent and I think she’ll probably make a pretty good VP and eventually President.
But all the same I wish she had a different voice.
msommer
Footballguy
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
True. Does Donald Trump as president further divide us, or does he work to bring us together? That’s what many of us here are dealing with trying to change. It’s tough.
Or there are people who post 100,000 posts about Trump in threads and look for any minute detail to prove the latest scandal. This has been going on since before Clinton.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
He is divisive. So is the left who is using violence and threatening more violence though.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I would say rioters and looters.
If your point is that it's just non-politicians on the left but the President of the United States on the right, the obvious rejoinder is that Donald Trump is not a politician, which is why we elected him.
timschochet
Footballguy
This is absolutely true. But I believe that most people who are protesting are not in favor of violence and don’t participate in it. Do you agree with this?
timschochet
Footballguy
I should add this as well- being divisive in itself is not necessarily a bad thing. If you truly believe in a principle or idea that is generally unpopular, then by all means it’s fine to be divisive about it. The abolitionists were divisive. Martin Luther King Jr was divisive.
What distinguishes Trump, IMO, is that he is not divisive out of conviction. He’s divisive for the purpose of spreading divisiveness because it helps him win.
What distinguishes Trump, IMO, is that he is not divisive out of conviction. He’s divisive for the purpose of spreading divisiveness because it helps him win.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
All of the above. Plenty of politicians not stepping up to stop it and some encourage it
There's no way to put a percentage on it. But it feels like most protests turn violent regardless of the percentage of people there for violence
timschochet
Footballguy
So it seems to me that there are 3 probable outcomes for this election:
1. Trump wins and Republicans hang on to the Senate.
2. Biden wins and Republicans hang on to the Senate.
3. Biden wins and Democrats win control of the Senate.
For the sake of discussion I give each of these an equal chance of happening, (which means Biden has a 2/3 chance of winning- actually I think that’s a little higher but this is good enough for now.) Theoretically there are other possibilities- Trump wins but loses the Senate, Biden wins but loses the House, etc- but these are extremely unlikely. I feel pretty secure assuming that one of the above 3 outcomes will in fact occur.
If #1 or #2 happen we can expect few legislative accomplishments. Simply put, the House will block Trump, or the Senate will block Biden. Only if #3 occurs can we expect some kind of significant change.
1. Trump wins and Republicans hang on to the Senate.
2. Biden wins and Republicans hang on to the Senate.
3. Biden wins and Democrats win control of the Senate.
For the sake of discussion I give each of these an equal chance of happening, (which means Biden has a 2/3 chance of winning- actually I think that’s a little higher but this is good enough for now.) Theoretically there are other possibilities- Trump wins but loses the Senate, Biden wins but loses the House, etc- but these are extremely unlikely. I feel pretty secure assuming that one of the above 3 outcomes will in fact occur.
If #1 or #2 happen we can expect few legislative accomplishments. Simply put, the House will block Trump, or the Senate will block Biden. Only if #3 occurs can we expect some kind of significant change.
timschochet
Footballguy
I don’t know about most. I don’t think that’s true. Certainly it’s true of the largest protests. It’s disappointing, but not surprising. (Not surprising because if one looks at American history we discover that large protests against legal authority seem to inevitably turn violent.)
sho nuff
Footballguy
No matter the senate...if Biden wins, what do you feel is his first legislative priority?
But this obsession with politics is nothing new. It has exploded because we now have the internet, talk radio, and cable TV feeding it 24/7. To single out any one entity as the example is kind of silly, because there are thousands of outlets which serve the appetites of all kinds of political leanings.
Last edited by a moderator:
TripItUp
Footballguy
Interesting. What would you put the odds of Biden winning at? And how much money have you wagered presuming the number is as high as your post indicates.
People can post anything on a public messageboard, I find that cold hard cash really brings out how people truly feel about the odds.
identikit
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
I mean he basically said Biden is a lock...with that kind of conviction I would be betting the farm on Biden with many sites close to even money right now.
Maybe Tim doesn't like money.
timschochet
Footballguy
I love money as much as the next guy but I’m doing fine thanks very much. I don’t bet on politics. I used to but I didn’t feel right. I don’t see politics as a game. And especially right now when lives are at stake.I mean he basically said Biden is a lock...with that kind of conviction I would be betting the farm on Biden with many sites close to even money right now.
Maybe Tim doesn't like money.
To answer your earlier question I put it at about 75-80%.
timschochet
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
You don't have to see something as a game to bet on it.
To bet on politics legally, though, I think you do have to live in a freeer country than the United States.
timschochet
Footballguy
Basically repealing what Trump did. And personally I think it will help the economy.
I didn’t use to feel this way, @Ramblin Wreck. I used to think, like most conservatives, that in general the way to grow the economy is to shrink taxes, not grow them. But the last 3 times Presidents have raised taxes, the economy has grown. It actually seemed to help things.
In this case we need to give more spending power to poorest among us. There are only two ways to accomplish that: raise taxes or borrow more. We’re already going to have to borrow more just to pay for what we’re already spending, and for all the natural disasters we’re facing due to climate change, and for a whole lot of other stuff. Raising taxes seems like the only responsible thing to do.
timschochet
Footballguy
