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Real Estate Lawyerguys - Florida Condo/HOA requirements question (1 Viewer)

Senor Schmutzig

Footballguy
I am in the process of purchasing a condo unit in Florida with my parents. We will both be on the title/deed. They will be living in it year round as it will be their primary residence.

We made an offer, it was accepted and are now going through the final stages of the mortgage process. Due to the unit being part of the condominium association, the HOA requires that any potential buyers fill out an application and get approved by the board prior to the purchase being finalized. We asked for, received and reviewed a copy of the HOA bylaws (147 pages!!!) to ensure there weren't any dealbreakers. 

There were a variety of requirements for the buyer that were within the application, but none of them were any issues for either me or my parents e.g. minimum credit score of 650 (ours are both 780+), annual income that is more than 3x the combined total of the annual assessment + mortgage, (I'm a FBG, so really?) not ever being convicted of a felony, etc. 

Yesterday, my father received an e-mail from the HOA Board to express their concern that we are only putting down 10% and will have a 90% Loan to Value ratio. They then threw this cureveball into the mix; something that is NOT included in the bylaws or the application: 

The Board is uncomfortable with the financial structure of your purchase due to the fact that you are only putting 10% down. We need to protect the Association against financial issues occurring with any future unit owners. As part of our approval process, we cap the mortgage-to-value ratio at 70% to ensure that owners have the appropriate level of equity in their condo to sustain a decline in real estate values and/or avoid delinquency in fees or assessments.

Besides the fact that in this financial environment with historically low mortgage rates, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to provide MORE than 10% due to the fact that I can get a bank to give me the balance at a 2.5% APR (CHEAP MONEY!!!), how can they just arbitrarily introduce this requirement if it has never been brought up before nor is it in any written documentation? If they do end up denying us the ability to purchase the unit, do we have legal standing to appeal that decision?

  And then there's the issue of correlating the equity in the property with the ability for someone to be able to address any increase in fees or assessments but that's another conversation....

 
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I'd leave it up to the parents. They are the ones living there year-round and putting up with the HOA.

Can you get them to pony up the extra 20%?

And if it wasn't in the bylaws to begin with...maybe that's a sign to move on?

:notalawyer:

 
All valid points @Dezbelief @ChiefD @eoMMan and certainly something that we have considered. And no, my parents aren't in a position to pony up an additional 20% and truthfully, it doesn't make much sense to. 

Another point I should add is that due to a recreation/land lease that was on the entire community up until last year, the number of mortgages within the community was probably close to zero for a long time as no bank would provide a mortgage on a property in which they weren't the first lien-holder.

Based on conversations with my real estate agent, who works predominantly within this community, in the past month alone, she has made/received 4 other offers that include mortgages so this is not an issue that's going away. It's just not something that HOA's have had to deal with in the past because up until now, they have been dealing with all cash offers. 

Not real excited about being the trailblazer here....

 
I am in the process of purchasing a condo unit in Florida with my parents. We will both be on the title/deed. They will be living in it year round as it will be their primary residence.

We made an offer, it was accepted and are now going through the final stages of the mortgage process. Due to the unit being part of the condominium association, the HOA requires that any potential buyers fill out an application and get approved by the board prior to the purchase being finalized. We asked for, received and reviewed a copy of the HOA bylaws (147 pages!!!) to ensure there weren't any dealbreakers. 

There were a variety of requirements for the buyer that were within the application, but none of them were any issues for either me or my parents e.g. minimum credit score of 650 (ours are both 780+), annual income that is more than 3x the combined total of the annual assessment + mortgage, (I'm a FBG, so really?) not ever being convicted of a felony, etc. 

Yesterday, my father received an e-mail from the HOA Board to express their concern that we are only putting down 10% and will have a 90% Loan to Value ratio. They then threw this cureveball into the mix; something that is NOT included in the bylaws or the application: 

The Board is uncomfortable with the financial structure of your purchase due to the fact that you are only putting 10% down. We need to protect the Association against financial issues occurring with any future unit owners. As part of our approval process, we cap the mortgage-to-value ratio at 70% to ensure that owners have the appropriate level of equity in their condo to sustain a decline in real estate values and/or avoid delinquency in fees or assessments.

Besides the fact that in this financial environment with historically low mortgage rates, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to provide MORE than 10% due to the fact that I can get a bank to give me the balance at a 2.5% APR (CHEAP MONEY!!!), how can they just arbitrarily introduce this requirement if it has never been brought up before nor is it in any written documentation? If they do end up denying us the ability to purchase the unit, do we have legal standing to appeal that decision?

  And then there's the issue of correlating the equity in the property with the ability for someone to be able to address any increase in fees or assessments but that's another conversation....
i could go on and on here, but exactly how will the HOA know what your loan ultimately wound up to be?  i mean, this is between me and my lender.  they don’t have the legal right to ask you to provide your application, do they?  you could do the 70% then get a HELOC, etc.  there are a bazillion ways around this.  this is between the buyer and seller, is tell them what they want to hear and do whatever i want honestly.  morons.....

 
I'm no lawyer, thank God, but I've had a few drinks and a few tokes so I thought I would offer my unsolicited opinion.  Sounds like the board needs to approve each sale before it is finalized, correct?  There may not be any written standards for them to go by...  in which case you'll be held to a "reasonableness" standard.  How reasonable is it for the board to require 70% LTV to approve a sale?  you'll need a lawyer to litigate this and my guess is it probably isn't worth the hassle and cost.  

Finally....  I agree with comments above.  Do you really want to get into bed with this HOA, considering what a PIA they are before you're even a homeowner there?  

 
Is there anything in the by-laws that gives them anything close to the right to do this? Did they cite any authority upon which they made this decision?

 
That seems very questionable that they are making those type of requirements not in the by laws although it was probably smart just given the overheated real estate market. If they really like the location I would maybe offer up another 5% in good faith while also kindly suggesting what they are requesting doesn’t seem to be legal and your attorney may have an issue with it. If smart you would think they will back off. Then the question is posed are these the type of people you really want to live around? I think I probably wouldn’t take it personally, we unfortunately had to unload a condo in FL in the 2009 recession at literally close to half its bubble value so what they are doing is smart for the association. 

 
Not sure what part of FL you are looking at. But I used to sell alot of condos in Destin. Most lenders look at the % of owners that are investors vs full time residents and back when I was selling them most lenders would not finance a condo above a certain threshold of full time residents without at least 25% down, most higher. There were exceptions. I had an updated list of condos that you could get financing for and right next door would be one you couldn't. Has your loan already progressed through to final approvement by the underwriters? They call the shots, the loan originators are just salesmen.

I would be more interested in the age and condition of the condo and be very aware of any upcoming special assessments by the COA, you could be slapped with an unexpected hike in the COA dues. The owners could also vote for whoppers like a new roof, painting, parking lot repaving, pools repaired etc. There could be a flood in a high unit that leaks down into every unit in that stack causing unexpected repairs.

disclaimer- I'm not an attorney and my RE license is now voluntary inactive.

 
Many associations have a right of first refusal also.  If they don't want you there it's unlikely you'll be able to purchase the property.  I agree with other posters stating at only 10% down the HOA likely feels like you won't be able to contribute to any future assessments they're planning. 

 
Many associations have a right of first refusal also.  If they don't want you there it's unlikely you'll be able to purchase the property.  I agree with other posters stating at only 10% down the HOA likely feels like you won't be able to contribute to any future assessments they're planning. 
Oh I know that they feel that way but I think it's BS. There was a Recreation/Land Lease on the property for a long time so bank wouldn't even allow mortgages as they wouldn't have been the first lien holder. Now that Land Lease doesn't exist anymore, there are going to be many more potential buyers wanting to utilize mortgages going forward. My nit pick is that there is NOTHING in the documents indicating that they "require" a 30% down payment. If we knew that from the beginning, chances are  we wouldn't have spent the time, money and emotional capital getting to this point. We have paid a few hundred bucks already for inspection and application fees already. 

 
Not a Florida attorney, but I do quite a bit of community association law, so I'm somewhat familiar with Florida's quirks.   Generally, older associations can require approval of purchasers and can reject for good cause.  If your're only putting down a minimal down payment, regardless of your credit score that's a red flag that you may not be able to pay for a special assessment.   

That's a dumb way to look at things, but it's probably enough to count as good cause.   If you want to push back at them, start using language that looks like you may be setting up a claim for a Fair Housing Act discrimination claim.   Are you parents older?  Do you have kids?   

If you really want to go through with buying into an association that doesn't want you there, be aggressive.   

 
regarding the assessments aspect here, when you buy a condo, you get your own insurance....an HO6 policy i believe.  within this policy, you can add on coverage for special assessments, i did when i bought a beach condo.  i just hit with an assessment from 2 years ago for florence and i am covered 100% without deductible.  another aspect here is putting down extra money to avoid PMI.  you may want to consider extra down to avoid this.....

 
I’m not a lawyer, but those kind of comments from the HOA should be a major red flag to anyone. 
Run!  No location in the world is worth the kind of headaches these HOA NAZI's will give.  With 147-pages of requirements, a HOA can make life a living hell, and these folks are already showing their colors.

 
On a side note, I would think this HOA is setting themselves up for a racial discrimination lawsuit.  If I were a black couple, I would go there and put 10% down and just dare them to say I can't live there.  A strong case could be made based on wealth statistics, that such a requirement is designed to keep minorities out and with such strong laws against housing discrimination, I think it would win.

 
Can't blame the HOA for trying to protect themselves.  They are probably the owners that paid for dues of 20% of the units during the last recession.  It takes a long time to evict owners.  

 
Chemical X said:
regarding the assessments aspect here, when you buy a condo, you get your own insurance....an HO6 policy i believe.  within this policy, you can add on coverage for special assessments, i did when i bought a beach condo.  i just hit with an assessment from 2 years ago for florence and i am covered 100% without deductible.  another aspect here is putting down extra money to avoid PMI.  you may want to consider extra down to avoid this.....
There are exceptions based on coverage, but loss assessment insurance generally only kicks in where the association is levying a special assessment based on a loss where the association insurance was primary but didn't cover the whole cost, resulting in a special assessment.   If the assessment is based on an uninsured cost, like a large repair that isn't fully funded due to a lack of reserves, the loss assessment insurance won't usually cover it.

 
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There are exceptions based on coverage, butt loss assessment insurance generally only kicks in where the association is levying a special assessment based on a loss where the association insurance was primary but didn't cover the whole cost, resulting in a special assessment.   If the assessment is based on an uninsured cost, like a large repair that isn't fully funded due to a lack of reserves, the loss assessment insurance won't usually cover it.
Is that the insurance that JLo got?

 

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