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Hankmoody

Dynasty - who do you trade Saquon for?

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16 hours ago, High Yield CeeDee said:

So sitting on an offer of Drake, Jeudy, Hunter Henry, James Robinson, and a 2021 2nd rd pick.  Would this be sufficiently "buying low" on Saquon?  For some reason I'm irrationally afraid that Jeudy will turn out be the next Julio.

The only complication is that my team is a prime contender this year.  What do contenders do when they have a chance to get Saquon like this?

The valuations seem to be all over the place right now, at least according to this thread..

That's an offer from an owner that believes in his return and has depth to play with.  None of those guys are core pieces to a contending team (Jeudy could be soon) so moving them for a shot at the 1.01 is a faith play.  It's also the kind of offer that an owner is likely to accept if he has decided to move on from a guy that's got all kinds of adversity stacked against him in bad OL/QB/team/situation and now an injury with a non-zero chance of long term complications with the injury.

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On 9/22/2020 at 10:51 PM, Hot Sauce Guy said:

4 carries is a somewhat small sample size though compared to week 1. 

Week one was a small sample size also. 

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10 minutes ago, High Yield CeeDee said:

That's a pretty good discount you got.  I took the deal, although I feel like I gave up a bit more. 

Got Saquon for Drake, Jeudy, HHenry, JRobinson, 2021 2nd.

Too bad Drake, Jeudy, and JRob are all about to have huge weeks... but this should pay off starting next year, right?

I'd take Barkley over that package pretty easily.

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Week one was a small sample size also. 

Yet larger than four carries. e.g. my point.

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Is it a clean acl tear or were other ligaments torn as well?

Edited by MTskibum

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2 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Yet larger than four carries. e.g. my point.

But you responded to a post that countered a poor week one by showing he broke off 2 long runs in that 4 carry game by stating it was a small sample size - meanwhile basing his "demise" on a small sample size of 15 carries in ONE game. 

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36 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

But you responded to a post that countered a poor week one by showing he broke off 2 long runs in that 4 carry game by stating it was a small sample size - meanwhile basing his "demise" on a small sample size of 15 carries in ONE game. 
 

Whatever. It’s not worth arguing over. Barkley is 💀 & I have little hope for that backfield based on all 19 carries they had before he died. That OL is a hot mess. If a RB emerges with a “feature role” I’ll be surprised if it’s flex-worthy over a WR4 in PPR. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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1 hour ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

I just bought Saquon. I'm rebuilding. 12 Team PPR Superflex.

I got Saquon Barkley

I gave Hunt, Brees, DeVante Parker, 2021 1st, and two 2021 3rds.

I still have two more 2021 1sts.

Not exactly buying low, but if Barkley comes back and gives you production like he showed in his 1 big season, you have a nice building block. 

Hunt, Parker & the 2021 1st is a healthy price though. 

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34 minutes ago, MTskibum said:

Is it a clean acl year or were other ligaments torn as well?

MCL "affected" and meniscus torn.  Meniscus is very ambiguous though, because it's a huge sheath between the joints and they don't have a grading system for the injury so it can be anywhere from a minor issue to a really big one that turns into bone-on-bone quickly.  Optimists will say it's unknown but no reason to panic until more is certain, pessimists will say it's a risky unknown that should be proceeded against with caution.  They're both right.

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2 hours ago, MTskibum said:

Is it a clean acl year or were other ligaments torn as well?

It was torn ACL, strained MCL, torn meniscus. Blew out the knee. Also reportedly it may have been even messier than that. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
Edited for accuracy.
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1 hour ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

It was ACL, MCL, and PCL. Blew out the whole name. Also reportedly it may have been even messier than that.

Where did you see that?  I don't see anything saying torn MCL or PCL.

Rappaport says torn ACL, partially torn Meniscus, strained MCL.  I would think strained MCL is pretty much irrelevant since that's a few week injury and obviously he'll have a lot more than a few weeks.  Torn meniscus as mentioned above can be minor or bad.

I don't see anywhere saying anything about PCL.

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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So I did some quick reading up on Saquon's specific injury.  Apparently the combination of ACL/MCL/Meniscus is called the "unhappy triad".

Obviously name doesn't sound good.  Reading around about that some sources say it's extremely common in ACL injuries and is basically your standard ACL.  A few others say it's a more complex surgery than a "clean" ACL tear though that was on a fantasy football website not a medical one and they didn't list a source so I couldn't verify.

I am also unsure if Barkley's technically counts as an "unhappy triad" since the definitions of that typically mention a torn MCL and Barkley's MCL wasn't torn, just strained.

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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16 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Where did you see that?  I don't see anything saying torn MCL or PCL.

Rappaport says torn ACL, partially torn Meniscus, strained MCL.  I would think strained MCL is pretty much irrelevant since that's a few week injury and obviously he'll have a lot more than a few weeks.  Torn meniscus as mentioned above can be minor or bad.

I don't see anywhere saying anything about PCL.

I thought it was here at FBG, paid content, but checking back it looks like it’s a torn meniscus, and a strained MCL  (which is also a tear) & torn ACL. 

My bad - thought I’d read PCL. Sorry - will edit my post. 

NY daily news says the same:

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-saquon-barkley-torn-acl-20200921-r7toof44cfddpe7mvwiahrn7ma-story.html

Barkley not only tore his ACL, but also partially tore his meniscus and strained his MCL, sources confirmed of an NFL Network report, meaning surgery would likely be 2-to-4 weeks away to allow swelling to go down.

Not to be Debbie downer, but based on the swelling it could be worse. They often don’t totally know until they get in there. 

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Quote

and Barkley's MCL wasn't torn, just strained.

a strain is a tear, just a more minor one. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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26 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

a strain is a tear, just a more minor one. 

I don't think that is correct. I believe a sprain is a partial tear, and a strain is basically it getting overstretched. 

I had major ankle problems when I played and this is how I understood it as it applied to my injuries. Ankle sprains were partial tears that didn't require surgery to repair. Ankle strains were an overstretch that would just be sore for a few weeks but usually required minimal if any missed time. 

That was for my ankle not knee but I don't see why the verbiage would be any different on a different joint. 

ETA: apparently it can be different in knee vs ankle. Google says strain can be either overstretch or partial tear. Not sure which saquon's is. 

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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2 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I don't think that is correct. I believe a sprain is a partial tear, and a strain is basically it getting overstretched. 

I had major ankle problems when I played and this is how I understood it as it applied to my injuries. Ankle sprains were partial tears that didn't require surgery to repair. Ankle strains were an overstretch that would just be sore for a few weeks but usually required minimal of any missed time. 

That was for my ankle not knee but I don't see why the verbiage would be any different on a different joint. 

ETA: apparently it can be different in knee vs ankle. Google says strain can be either overstretch or partial tear. Not sure which saquon's is. 

I “strained” my left knee. MRI revealed a small tear to one of the tendons. Asked my doc & doc said “a strain is a tear”. :shrug: No surgery, but I might need it now that I’m old. 

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On 9/22/2020 at 1:02 PM, leave a whisper said:

CMC or Zeke ...... package that includes J Taylor -- end of list   (a hold for anything else/less)  :2cents:

Giving consideration to offering CMC for Taylor and Barkley. 

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I’m not trading Saquon for anyone. You aren’t going to get value for him so keep him.

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3 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

Giving consideration to offering CMC for Taylor and Barkley. 

More power to you if you get it, but highly doubt that trade happens

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One owner wanted hunt and Clyde for him.   I was approached, turned it down.

 

Have him in just one league.   Kid has such a good work ethic, not worried about him coming back.    I share the same concerns about the o line though

 

 

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I’m thinking of trading him next year for either Lamar or Big Pat.

Tex

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made a trade last week and feel pretty ok with it -

gave saquon and a 5th

got deandre hopkins, james robinson, mckinnon and an early 2nd

had open roster spots so didn't need to cut anyone, it may not look pretty and less than saquon's perceived value but i like it for my team

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4 hours ago, Shrugs said:

I’m going to offer James Robinson straight up next week just for fun.

Dont overpay for Barkley... lol

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11 hours ago, Aunt Jemima said:

made a trade last week and feel pretty ok with it -

gave saquon and a 5th

got deandre hopkins, james robinson, mckinnon and an early 2nd

had open roster spots so didn't need to cut anyone, it may not look pretty and less than saquon's perceived value but i like it for my team

Hopkins is a tier 1 stud so I think you did fine, especially with Robinson looking dominant. 

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Team A got Barkley, Saquon NYG RB; Gallman, Wayne NYG RB; Barnett, Derek PHI DE; Harris, Erik LVR S; Year 2021 Round 3 Draft Pick from Team C; Year 2022 Round 2 Draft Pick from Team B

Team B got Edwards-Helaire, Clyde KCC RB; Thompson, Darwin KCC RB; Harris, Anthony MIN S; Year 2021 Round 4 Draft Pick from Team A; Year 2022 Round 3 Draft Pick from Team A

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26 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Team A got Barkley, Saquon NYG RB; Gallman, Wayne NYG RB; Barnett, Derek PHI DE; Harris, Erik LVR S; Year 2021 Round 3 Draft Pick from Team C; Year 2022 Round 2 Draft Pick from Team B

Team B got Edwards-Helaire, Clyde KCC RB; Thompson, Darwin KCC RB; Harris, Anthony MIN S; Year 2021 Round 4 Draft Pick from Team A; Year 2022 Round 3 Draft Pick from Team A

Seems pretty light, IMO. But I'm lower on CEH than a lot of people.

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9 minutes ago, mcintyre1 said:

 But I'm lower on CEH than a lot of people.

My position on that is so well-documented that I figured a comment on my end was overkill. It's basically giving up higher draft position, too, if we discount the value of the IDP safeties and Barnett, who is a decent defensive end for IDP purposes. But to each their own. Some people see real gold in CEH and spend accordingly for him.  

 

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In a 10 Team League

Gave up
Gordon, Melvin DEN RB; Johnson, David HOU RB; Allen, Keenan LAC WR

Got
Barkley, Saquon NYG RB; Michel, Sony NEP RB

I think Sony was thrown in to fit rosters.

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On 9/25/2020 at 9:42 AM, Terpman22 said:

Was offered Amari Cooper straight up last night. Yeah, no. 

I would have taken that offer.  Cooper is going to be relevant for a looong time.  RBS flame out overnight, are injured more, and I have little faith the Giants will get him the episodes he needs to be productive  and healthy anytime soon.  

I guess I think of it like a few years ago when David Johnson was so valuable and then...poof.  basically, we could name names all day long of RBS that were just there and then weren't but usually when you've seen an elite wr that has multiple good years and is still that young, you know what that is for a good while. 

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Posted (edited)

Ten team league

gave Damien Harris, Jerick McKinnon and 2021 1st (probably mid to late)

got Saquon Barkley

still have J Taylor (and Wilkins), M Sanders (and B Scott), J Kelley, M Gaskins to get me through this year

feel good about 2021, assuming Barkley fully recovers.  Also have Marlon Mack on IR and AJ Dillon on taxi. 

Edited by neal cassady

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On 9/24/2020 at 2:17 PM, FreeBaGeL said:

I'd take Barkley over that package pretty easily.

This is the reason nobody is going to trade for Saquon.  The owners have no idea how bad the current injury is and are demanding a ransom.  

Listen to Dr. Jean's take that he made on the Audible a few weeks ago where he said it was much more severe than just an MCL it tore a few ligaments and is the second injury for Saquon.  He is OUT for the year and according to Dr. Jean his recovery time will stretch all the way till the START of next season and no one can say for certain if he will come back on time or be completely healthy.

I don't own Saquon but for some reason every RB I took a flyer on is hitting so I'm sitting on pile of good young RBs and thought about making an offer for Saquon since I could park him on IR and save bench spots but I figured people have not caught up to the extent of this injury and have an inflated image of him completely healthy and coming back in the offseason without complications.

His injury is much worse than people imagine, he won't come back till the brink of next season, he will be a year older with questions till he answers how healthy he is on the field.

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35 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

This is the reason nobody is going to trade for Saquon.  The owners have no idea how bad the current injury is and are demanding a ransom.  

Listen to Dr. Jean's take that he made on the Audible a few weeks ago where he said it was much more severe than just an MCL it tore a few ligaments and is the second injury for Saquon.  He is OUT for the year and according to Dr. Jean his recovery time will stretch all the way till the START of next season and no one can say for certain if he will come back on time or be completely healthy.

I don't own Saquon but for some reason every RB I took a flyer on is hitting so I'm sitting on pile of good young RBs and thought about making an offer for Saquon since I could park him on IR and save bench spots but I figured people have not caught up to the extent of this injury and have an inflated image of him completely healthy and coming back in the offseason without complications.

His injury is much worse than people imagine, he won't come back till the brink of next season, he will be a year older with questions till he answers how healthy he is on the field.

Classic.  I think we all have people like this in our leagues.  "Your player that I want to trade for sucks, here are all the reasons why.  Now let me do you a favor and take  him off your hands for well below market value."

Drake/Jeudy/JRob is hardly a "ransom", especially 2 weeks ago when we were discussing it and JRob's value was much lower.

Surely you see how silly it looks going on a rant about how no one is considering how Saquon's ACL injury compares to a typical ACL injury while literally quoting someone that spent the majority of the last page discussing how Saquon's ACL injury compares to a typical ACL injury, right?

The reality is that it's not a perfect clean ACL only tear but it's still far from unusual.  There have been a lot of guys that have come back from much worse and almost no one in the last decade if not longer that has been unable to return to form from it or had any career threatening damage, other than long-term degenerative issues that don't really rear their head for 4-5 years later.

I think most people understand the possible scenarios by now.  By far most likely is that he's slow out of the gates next year or has lingering issues like Dalvin Cook.  Small chance he has a crazy Peterson like return (Peterson's wasn't quite as bad as Saquon's but wasn't a "clean" one either).  Very small chance he sets a new modern standard as a guy that never really recovers from it.

There was a meniscus tear so that is the kind of thing that could become an issue 4-5 years down the line like it did for Gurley but by then Cam Akers and a 2nd or whatever junk you're wanting to throw out there for Barkley will have likely long become irrelevant anyway.

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1 minute ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Classic.  I think we all have people like this in our leagues.  "Your player that I want to trade for sucks, here are all the reasons why.  Now let me do you a favor and take  him off your hands for well below market value."

Drake/Jeudy/JRob is hardly a "ransom", especially 2 weeks ago when we were discussing it and JRob's value was much lower.

Surely you see how silly it looks going on a rant about how no one is considering how Saquon's ACL injury compares to a typical ACL injury while literally quoting someone that spent the majority of the last page discussing how Saquon's ACL injury compares to a typical ACL injury, right?

The reality is that it's not a perfect clean ACL only tear but it's still far from unusual.  There have been a lot of guys that have come back from much worse and almost no one in the last decade if not longer that has been unable to return to form from it or had any career threatening damage, other than long-term degenerative issues that don't really rear their head for 4-5 years later.

I think most people understand the possible scenarios by now.  By far most likely is that he's slow out of the gates next year or has lingering issues like Dalvin Cook.  Small chance he has a crazy Peterson like return (Peterson's wasn't quite as bad as Saquon's but wasn't a "clean" one either).  Very small chance he sets a new modern standard as a guy that never really recovers from it.

There was a meniscus tear so that is the kind of thing that could become an issue 4-5 years down the line like it did for Gurley but by then Cam Akers and a 2nd or whatever junk you're wanting to throw out there for Barkley will have likely long become irrelevant anyway.

LOL.  Yep, exactly the sort of response I expected.  LOL.

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2 hours ago, Jerichose said:

Saquon or J.K. Dobbins and a high (probably top 3-6) 1st?

The Shark Pool (NFL Talk)

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Apologies. I thought debating the value of Barkley over and against a particular package was what this thread was about.

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2 minutes ago, Jerichose said:

Apologies. I thought debating the value of Barkley over and against a particular package was what this thread was about.

As did i

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9 minutes ago, Jerichose said:

Apologies. I thought debating the value of Barkley over and against a particular package was what this thread was about.

It is.  Which of those sides would you take?

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10 team IDP Dynasty

I traded Barkley + Anthony Miller + Deion Jones + late 2021 1st

for

J.K. Dobbins + Calvin Ridley

Edited by Ben & Jerry's

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Two different trades but ended up trading Barkley, DJ Moore and AJ Brown for Kamara and Hopkins. Few other small pieces that evened out. It’s a year 5 Superpot year, meaning the prize pool is more than double what it normally is. 

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As teams get into the 1-4 and 0-5 part of the season we'll start seeing more completed trades.  I have him in one league that I'm 5-0 in so no need to rush and take desperation offers, which I'm sure my leaguemates are sitting around waiting for.

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I made a trade.  Claypool, leveon bell, and Allen Robinson for saquon, Boyd, and Gallup.  What are your thoughts

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Recent saquon trade 12 tm non ppr 1qb 2rb 2wr 2 flex

Tm1 : barkley, cohen, justice hill

Tm2: ruggs, lev bell, mike williams

Cohen, hill were throw ins to balance rosters

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