Joe Summer
Footballguy
LOL, you'd be OK with a Democratic candidate doing this 2 months before the Democratic primary? Get outta here!
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Bloomberg Pays Fines for 32,000 Florida Felons to Vote! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Mammy
- Start date
quick-hands
Footballguy
Obtuse. Whatever .LOL, you'd be OK with a Democratic candidate doing this 2 months before the Democratic primary? Get outta here!
The Commish
Footballguy
"funny"? No...it looks like Bloomberg is donating money to the organizations helping the ex-felons overcome the poll tax so they can be allowed to vote. I think it's crystal clear what he's trying to do. And I stated up thread, it's hard to imagine attaching "philanthropist" to Trump's name, but if he chose to do the same, I'd applaud him for doing it. If you'd like to post the part of the law you are referring to, I'd like to read it. I goggled but came up blank. All the pieces I've been quoted by my officials here in state lack the ability to get to the quid pro quo part. I mean, the charities that are helping these people are perfectly legit and have been raising money for months to help these people. Are we to believe all those donations to the legal charity are illegal and the state's been letting this go on this long without saying anything? I mean, I KNOW it's Florida and things are kinda ###### up around here, but geeze.
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Shutout
Footballguy
I think I posted a link in the thread somewhere for someone. Maybe I am just skeptical but I would probably be more inclined to buy this if this was done in a non-election year or even a mid-term year or...I dunno, maybe even an election year where it wasn't considered an extremely tight race in an extremely contested state. Or maybe eve if he was doing it in a state that he had ties in, like New York. But what would be the point in that to help people vote in a state he doesn't need a vote in?
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't know what you're asking here. It's always interesting to observe how people cut/edit quotes to respond to. As soon as the Florida legislature started down this path of shenanigans they're on these charities started popping up to help. They didn't just come into existence a few weeks ago. This has been going on since the 2018 election. They really started working in earnest once the Florida SC made their ruling. Bloomberg has stated a million times that he'll do what he can to help defeat Trump, so he's using his philanthropy in a swing state to get as many people eligible to vote as he can. That's the point. That seems rather obvious to me. I don't know what else it would be. Personally, I have zero problem with it given my belief that the more people who vote the better for the country From a "conservative" perspective (not speaking of you...I don't have any idea where you stand on that spectrum) there is never a good time for their to be an increase in voter turnout...I get that. But that isn't a voter problem, that's a GOP problem.
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
you're saying the majority of the felons Bloomberg paid the fines were are white GOP MAGA hat wearers ?
seriously ?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
why isn't he doing it in other places ?
isn't there like 21 states that allow felons to vote ?
why would Bloomberg pick Florida? c'mon .... we know the reason ... because Florida can vey well be won by 30,000 votes right ?
sho nuff
Footballguy
Did other places enact such laws and win recent appeals?
I think recent events is why he fundraised for this group (as did others like Lebron and Jordon...).
The Commish
Footballguy
This question has been answered every time you've asked it. It's simple...because Florida is where the biggest numbers of suppressed ex-felons are. The more people that vote, the better for the process and Democrats as a whole. Why would one spend their time doing small groups suppressed all over the country when they have a HUGE target rich environment right here in Florida.
The funniest part of this whole thing is this isn't even a thing if the GOP here executed the desires defined in Amendment 4 submitted to the people to vote on. Can't overlook that entire fiasco.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
you don't think location in a highly contested state mattered? Bloomberg has never donated to pay felons before, why now 6 weeks before an election that he desperately wants Trump to lose ?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
thank goodness we're seeing honesty !! has nothing to do with helping felons (there are no ex-felons, once a felon always a felon) and it has nothing to do with the states that will assuredly go Biden .... it has to do with location and getting votes for Biden
Democrat's will get more votes - the money being spent = more Democrat votes
and ya'll think that's ok ?
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Are there any other states in which felons have their voting rights withheld until such fines are paid? If not, then I don't see how one can ask why this hasn't been done in other states.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
No, of course not. The sentence clearly says "more likely to be Republican". It said nothing about hats.
You seem overly worried by this.
Bloomberg wants Trump to lose. He is using his money in a way he thinks will increase the chances of that happening.
Are you saying Bloomberg has no right to help Biden?
sho nuff
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
I think that this is the best post of this thread...it admits why this is happening (as opposed to some of the other replies pretending it is not the reason) and it is very much legal so all is good .
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The Commish
Footballguy
Pay closer attention maybe? It's only been said here a dozen times and counting
Ok...I don't know why this made me laugh but it did.Most of those states (if not all of them) don't have rules taking away your right to vote because you were convicted of a felony, so why would it have much to do with them?
close...it has to do with allowing more people their right to vote....whether they vote or not or vote for who I want them to vote for isn't as important to me as them being able to vote. And, yes, I understand the suppression by the GOP because generally speaking, the more people that vote the more that helps the Dems. That's on the GOP, not the voters trying to vote.
I don't know the make up of the felons being helped here. Perhaps you have a spreadsheet with all of them and analysis you can share with us? Either way, this isn't the concern for me as a firm believer in "the more people who vote the better".
At this point I feel like I'm a broken record....yes, I'm ok with more people voting. This has really become a weird hill to die on. In short, a Democrat is using their money in a way they think is going to help their guy win (by getting more people access to the voting booths). In turn the GOP sends their money to politicians to make sure they do what is necessary to help their guy in by making sure policy is in place to suppress voter turn out or make it difficult to vote. This isn't new...it's a tug-o-war that's been going on for decades. I don't get all the "outrage" over this honestly.
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Thunderlips
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
I wouldn't I think when a person kills another human or rapes a child or something, they are lucky that voting is one of the only things they lose.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
I am honestly surprised that several of you are so casually ok with people buying votes. Considering you choose to live in a free country and you want equal representation, I would think you would be opposed to a scenario where you could be marginalized or negated completely by a person with a lot of money.
If the complete opposite were true, that is, if it were completely legal to put your vote up on Ebay, we would live by the complete rules of literally a few dozen powerful figures, some which may not even be in our country. I can't imagine not protecting against that vehemently. Otherwise we may all as well slaves to a master with money.
If the complete opposite were true, that is, if it were completely legal to put your vote up on Ebay, we would live by the complete rules of literally a few dozen powerful figures, some which may not even be in our country. I can't imagine not protecting against that vehemently. Otherwise we may all as well slaves to a master with money.
Jobber
Footballguy
[scooter]
Footballguy
[scooter]
Footballguy
Manster
Footballguy
[scooter]
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
While the idea that this is "buying votes" keeps getting repeated, I think you're missing the point that the posters who approve of this action don't consider it buying votes at all.
I could just as easily write "I am honestly surprised so many of you are casually OK with poll taxes". That wouldn't be fair because I assume you don't consider the idea that the person's right to vote being contingent upon paying a fine to be a poll tax.
Mile High
Footballguy
So voters in Florida say it's ok for felons to have their voting rights restored. The Florida Republican legislation says wait a not until you pay your fines. Some people donate to a fund to help pay those fines and now the Republicans are bent out of shape over getting the fines paid?
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Shutout
Footballguy
It's not missed. It is in there to underscore the statement because while a lot of people are sheepishly, tongue-in-cheek, wink, wink, nod, nod and saying "its not about buying votes", we all know it is exactly about buying votes. You guys don't have to lie to me to be my friend
. We are all smart here. we understand (and some have actually paraphrased it here) that Bloomie has a trump stump up his butt and wants VENGEANCE....MWUHAHAHA. And we know why he's doing it in Florida.And why he's doing it on the edge of a tightly contested presidential race...in a tightly contested state....that is up for grabs. And that's he has never shown concern towards this group before ever at any other time.
It is like that old saying that says "when they tell you, 'it's not about the money'...it's ALWAYS about the money!"
I mean, if the guy had just randomly done this before at any other non-election time, in any other place...then, ok. Or even if he was doing now...in, I don't know...New York where he actually has a connecting history...or even California that is of no strategical VOTING interest. Ok.
But we all know what's going on. And Florida lawmakers do too.
With all that being said, He won't get into trouble. This was just the republicans wanting to say "we see you". At most, it will be used to parlay to something else at some other time as a reminder.
[scooter]
Footballguy
The irony of your statement here is that Bloomberg has more to lose financially under a Biden administration.
Manster
Footballguy
So why the hell did he do it if criminals in Florida skew right? Maybe it's incentive to vote for the party who gives you stuff? I mean he's buying votes any way you slice it.
Manster
Footballguy
Riiiiiiiight.......I'm sure he's giving $100 million to Biden just for the greater good.....to take down the evil trump....I'm sure it won't benefit him financially at all....
Rich Conway
Footballguy
There are no other states with this circumstance. This particular state has never had this particular circumstance before. It is literally impossible for him to do this anywhere but the one place and time it was done.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
The Florida AG disagrees. It is illegal to “directly or indirectly give or promise anything of value to another in casting his or her vote." So normally, paying a court fine wouldn't run afoul of the statute except Bloomberg is paying fines for this purpose (from a Bloomberg memo): “We have identified a significant vote share that requires a nominal investment,” the memo read. “The data shows that in Florida, Black voters are a unique universe unlike any other voting bloc, where the Democratic support rate tends to be 90 per cent to 95 per cent.” So his paying the fines in connection with his intended purpose at a minimum triggers an investigation into the legality of this payments.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Not an appropriate analogy. A convicted felon shouldn't be allowed to vote until his debt is paid to society. Part of that debt is fines and restitution. Those are part of their sentences and not something that is tacked on in order to be able to vote.
[scooter]
Footballguy
The key phrase here is "casting"; Bloomberg does not have any sort of guarantee that these people will cast a vote for Biden. Hell, he doesn't even have a guarantee that they'll even vote. Plus, Florida's voter registration deadline is 11 days away, so it's likely that a significant number of these ex-felons won't even get registered in time to vote this year.
Shutout
Footballguy
You would be kidding yourself saying that if you are talking taxes on the rich. The ultra-wealthy aren't like the average citizen. He isn't looking at a weekly direct deposit stemming from a 9-5 job. Their wealth is tied up in stock and securities and land and ownership in intellectual assets, etc. All those things have very clever tax shelters that protect them. It is a commonly misunderstood thing when people get behind candidates that promise to "tac the rich". What they really mean is tax the middle-class.
Shutout
Footballguy
Interesting. I honestly did not know that there is nowhere in the United States that this type of tactic in some variation has never been possible to attempt. thank you for that piece.
With that being said, this does make me think if it is new and never tested it may be a very good candidate to be tightened up, like a bad loophole. Generally speaking, if there is no rule prohibiting it then good on him for being clever.
However, to quote the great jeff Goldblum "“YEAH, BUT YOUR
Actions like this have the potential to weaken the proverbial bedrock of our republic. Our founding fathers were obsessed with creating checks and balances in our country's government to prevent any one side's ambitions from being able to overwhelm another's ambitions. Neutralizing the voice of one is authoritarian, something the colonists didn't care much for and something Trump usually gets accused of but, in practice, is happening on the other side.
[scooter]
Footballguy
Bloomberg is doing this solely to poke Trump. He only donated enough money to pay off the fines of 32,000 felons, which is less than 2% of ex-felons in Florida. It's a drop in the bucket, designed more to maximize Trump outrage than to maximize Democrat votes.Manster said:
In the study that I linked upthread, political scientists concluded that if ALL ex-felons in Florida got the right to vote, then the Democrat advantage -- if it happened at all -- would be no more than 8000-48,000 total votes. And that's based on restoring the voting rights of 1.7 million felons. But, for 32,000 felons, that alleged advantage would be as low as 150 votes.
As I've said many times in this thread, Bloomberg is not getting much bang for his buck here. This is all for show.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I think most believe it will help Biden yes...not sure anyone is denying that part. But to think this organization is not doing things to help people vote being the reason (and it is)...you are crazy. Bloomberg is trying to counter the GOP focus on fewer people voting (and they are doing so thinking its best for the GOP).Boston said:
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
This was pretty much Rich's point wasn't it? You don't agree with the analogy because you reject the underlying premise. Just like others would reject the premise of buying votes, because there are presumably no conditions about voting tied to the fines be paid.Snotbubbles said:
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Rich Conway
Footballguy
I think Bloomberg et.al. found a way to create a check and balance against authoritarian government. It's important to look at the history of what happened here. As I understand it, this is what happened:Shutout said:
- Florida voters voted, via referendum, that ex-felons would have their voting rights restored
- Florida governor and legislature, in response to the referendum, created new legislation preventing the voting rights from being restored until said ex-felons repaid fines, court fees, etc.
- Assorted groups sued, and the legislation was upheld earlier this year
- In many cases, the Florida government refused to provide information on what fines were actually owed, thereby preventing voting entirely (I'm here to pay my fine, how much? We're not sure. OK, so I can vote? No, not until your fine is paid.)
- Bloomberg et.al. contributed to charitable organizations that had sprung up to pay the fines and go through procedures to force the government to determine the fines
sho nuff
Footballguy
Again...did he actually donate that much? The articles are all that he stepped in and made fundraising calls...that many prominent people donated to the coalition raising this money.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I don’t think Harris donating to an anti-bail group is the comp.
Trump donating to Fla AG Bondi’s campaign and then the AG dropping an investigation into the Trump University scam is the comp.
Trump donating to Fla AG Bondi’s campaign and then the AG dropping an investigation into the Trump University scam is the comp.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
It’s also worth remembering that Trump not only pardoned a Florida felon but also forgave *all his fines & penalties, thereby ensuring he would be able to vote.