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Joe Bryant

NFL and Covid Issues - Keep it 100% NFL

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Creating this new thread on how covid issues will affect the NFL.

Obviously with today's news about the Titans, this is relevant.

But please keep the discussion here 100% on the NFL and how it relates to games and players. 

There are a ton of important things that can be discussed from mask discussion or society discussion or a zillion other important topics not 100% related to NFL and Fantasy Football, please take those to the other forums. We have two entire forums where tons of talk on those many covid related subjects happen.

For here, keep it 100% on the NFL. That means save the "Victory laps" or "Told You So's" or "Only idiots would go to a game" or "I hope you're entertained why people die" stuff somewhere else. Sorry but we don't have much patience on this. 

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@Deamon asked a good question in another thread:    

 

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Commissioners:  How are you handling this situation if the week is cancelled or moved for those 4 teams?  Is it just tough luck for anyone who owns those players?  If those games are rescheduled, is it possible to count those points towards week 4 in retrospect?

 

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@Dr. Octopus   replied:

 

 

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Yes, out of luck. It's possible it would just wind up function as their bye week but even if not it's not much different from guys missing a game due to an injury.

 

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Just now, Joe Bryant said:
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Commissioners:  How are you handling this situation if the week is cancelled or moved for those 4 teams?  Is it just tough luck for anyone who owns those players?  If those games are rescheduled, is it possible to count those points towards week 4 in retrospect?

 

I'm not actually commish, but am an "officer" in 2 leagues (I handle the website - MFL).  I'm sure there's going to be an e-mail discussion on this topic next time I'm able to check my personal e-mail.  If not, I'll be starting one for each league.

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Deamon said:

Commissioners:  How are you handling this situation if the week is cancelled or moved for those 4 teams?  Is it just tough luck for anyone who owns those players?  If those games are rescheduled, is it possible to count those points towards week 4 in retrospect?

@travdogg replied:

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I think its tough luck. Retroactive points seems like a bad idea, especially if that means you have to find extra starters for a later week, because the guys you want to start count for week 4 instead. 

 

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Think it has to be tough luck or you’re setting yourself up for a whole new set of issues potentially. Think everyone knew going in this season might be a challenge and make the best of it. 

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Dr. Octopus said:

Yes, out of luck. It's possible it would just wind up function as their bye week but even if not it's not much different from guys missing a game due to an injury.

@Deamon replied:

Quote

True.  I mean I guess everyone is already dealing with so many injuries that is it really a big deal if DJ/Cook/Watson/Connor/Etc miss the week.  They could have easily all been injured last week anyways so it's no different. 

I think it would be too hard to keep week 4's results "open" until later on, as some people may want to make trades, etc depending on their record.

 

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So maybe my head is in the sand for how this works, but isn't it entirely possible that neither the Steelers-Titans or Texans-Vikings games are effected at all? I mean if everybody is tested again(likely today/tomorrow) and then again(friday) and there are no new cases, why wouldn't the games proceed as scheduled? 

Wouldn't it just be whatever current coaches/players are gone?

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2 minutes ago, travdogg said:

So maybe my head is in the sand for how this works, but isn't it entirely possible that neither the Steelers-Titans or Texans-Vikings games are effected at all? I mean if everybody is tested again(likely today/tomorrow) and then again(friday) and there are no new cases, why wouldn't the games proceed as scheduled? 

Wouldn't it just be whatever current coaches/players are gone?

Correct, this is likely the NFL's goal here.

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7 minutes ago, Deamon said:

Correct, this is likely the NFL's goal here.

That’s my understanding as well. But they need to take a few days to test everyone daily to make sure there are no other positive cases.

logistics of moving a game to a later date are so complex that I’m certain the NFL wants to keep the games as scheduled as the best possible outcome.

hopefully there are no other cases & this becomes much ado about nothing.

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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There is a difference between "testing positive" and "manifesting symptoms".  I believe it is the case that if you were exposed today, you should test positive in the next 3 to 5 days (assuming you were exposed sufficiently).  Then as you point out, it might take another 7 to 14 days before you actually start showing symptoms.  Or maybe 50-50 that you are positive but never show any symptoms, but can still be an asymptomatic carrier.  Then given their overall health, presumably less than 5% of positives develop serious symptoms, with 0.1% chance of a fatality.  For me personally, any time there is a situation where there is only a 1 in 1000 chance of dying, I tend to do everything I can to avoid that situation.

So assuming that these 8 cases are true positives, the assumption at the moment is that everyone on the field on Sunday (including officials, camera men, water boys, etc) for that game was exposed to it.  But if they are all tested daily this week, and everybody involved is truly isolated over the course of the week, we can safely assume that anyone that has zero positive tests by Saturday did not contract the virus from participating in this game.

It would not be at all surprising if there are additional positive tests between now and Saturday.  But if all those players have been isolated over the course of the week, it should still be good to go on Sunday for whatever number has not tested positive.  Then depending on what that number is, do you play the game or not?

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Just now, FreeBaGeL said:

Per schefter NFL says Titans game is still on.

As of now, all of the games are scheduled as planned. That’s kind of a wait and see approach though. Nothing is definitive.

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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1 minute ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Per schefter NFL says Titans game is still on.

Good just play the games and get the positive guys out.    Probably false positives anyways 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

As of now, all of the games are scheduled as planned. That’s kind of a wait and see approach though. Nothing is definitive.

I mean I think they're saying more than that.  Goodell sent out a letter to all the team owner's detailing why they still intend to play the game this week.

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Just now, need2know said:

Good just play the games and get the positive guys out.    Probably false positives anyways 

I’m not sure which tests the NFL is currently using… But the latest and greatest testing is a lot more accurate than the early stuff we had heard about with a high percentage of false positives.

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3 minutes ago, themeistersinger said:

There is a difference between "testing positive" and "manifesting symptoms".  I believe it is the case that if you were exposed today, you should test positive in the next 3 to 5 days (assuming you were exposed sufficiently).  Then as you point out, it might take another 7 to 14 days before you actually start showing symptoms.  Or maybe 50-50 that you are positive but never show any symptoms, but can still be an asymptomatic carrier.  Then given their overall health, presumably less than 5% of positives develop serious symptoms, with 0.1% chance of a fatality.  For me personally, any time there is a situation where there is only a 1 in 1000 chance of dying, I tend to do everything I can to avoid that situation.

So assuming that these 8 cases are true positives, the assumption at the moment is that everyone on the field on Sunday (including officials, camera men, water boys, etc) for that game was exposed to it.  But if they are all tested daily this week, and everybody involved is truly isolated over the course of the week, we can safely assume that anyone that has zero positive tests by Saturday did not contract the virus from participating in this game.

It would not be at all surprising if there are additional positive tests between now and Saturday.  But if all those players have been isolated over the course of the week, it should still be good to go on Sunday for whatever number has not tested positive.  Then depending on what that number is, do you play the game or not?

Symptoms is kinda irrelevant here.  It doesn't matter if anyone has symptoms or not.  Since so many cases don't have symptoms, the NFL needs to just go with positive tests.  If a player tests positive twice, and shows no symptoms, they will still, and should still, be kept out.

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15 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

Think it has to be tough luck or you’re setting yourself up for a whole new set of issues potentially. Think everyone knew going in this season might be a challenge and make the best of it. 

Agreed. I'm the commish for our long-running league (1993), so it was actually nip/tuck to actually just call the season off and pick it up again in 2021. We elected to press on with "hurricane rules" in effect; anything can happen, decisions could be last minute, you very well could take an unexpected zero, so keep rosters stuffed.

Much easier decision too as we decided not to play for prize money this year. Just playing for fun (in an otherwise, overly-funless 2020).

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Just now, FreeBaGeL said:

I mean I think they're saying more than that.  Goodell sent out a letter to all the team owner's detailing why they still intend to play the game this week.

I hope so… It will make my life is commissioner a lot easier, plus, selfishly, I would love to start Juju Smith Schuster.

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Just now, Deamon said:

Symptoms is kinda irrelevant here.  It doesn't matter if anyone has symptoms or not.  Since so many cases don't have symptoms, the NFL needs to just go with positive tests.  If a player tests positive twice, and shows no symptoms, they will still, and should still, be kept out.

Yes, absolutely.  

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2 minutes ago, need2know said:

Good just play the games and get the positive guys out.    Probably false positives anyways 

This is likely what will happen, and what will hopefully happen.

But they obviously need to test everyone on both those teams today... and probably again tomorrow... and maybe even again on Thursday,... heck maybe even Friday to make sure that they don't test positive. 

So the issue is more "Can they run the game Sunday after not letting these 2 teams practice until Saturday"

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People on here can go in circles (and hopefully don't) about 'how many days after exposure it takes to test positive".  This is what it ultimately comes down to, as the NFL will probably make sure they do a final round of testing X days after Sundays exposure... and I'm sure this "X" number of days depends on what their own intel and doctors suggest.

I'm hoping that "X" is small, so that healthy players aren't held out of practice until Saturday.... which would likely cancel the game.

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1 minute ago, Dizzy said:

Agreed. I'm the commish for our long-running league (1993), so it was actually nip/tuck to actually just call the season off and pick it up again in 2021. We elected to press on with "hurricane rules" in effect; anything can happen, decisions could be last minute, you very well could take an unexpected zero, so keep rosters stuffed.

Much easier decision too as we decided not to play for prize money this year. Just playing for fun (in an otherwise, overly-funless 2020).

We took a pretty similar approach… My league mates were very understanding and cooperative.

We added two “Covid only“ IR spots… naturally, there’s one guy in the league who keeps asking me if he can put players with ACL or broken leg injuries there, but otherwise it’s been 11/12th smooth. :lol: 

just another day in the life of a fantasy football commissioner.

Back to this weekend’s games, 1 league member kept asking if the games are delayed, will the stats be retroactively applied to week 4. :unsure:

If postponed, my understanding is that this would be the BYE for any effected teams, right? So 0s for week 4, and stats for games foe whatever week they’re postponed to?

I can’t imagine it would go any other way, but please do help me understand if there’s another possible outcome here. 

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3 minutes ago, Deamon said:

This is likely what will happen, and what will hopefully happen.

But they obviously need to test everyone on both those teams today... and probably again tomorrow... and maybe even again on Thursday,... heck maybe even Friday to make sure that they don't test positive. 

So the issue is more "Can they run the game Sunday after not letting these 2 teams practice until Saturday"

I mean it's not ideal but they can implement game-plans via zoom. I said this in the other thread but I think some competitive imbalance was cooked into this season already and assuming no new positives the games go forward despite any "unfairness".

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ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the NFL "wants and intends" to play Titans/Steelers as scheduled on Sunday, but that moving to Monday evening will be a possibility.

Per Schefter, this would "allow for additional testing and contact tracing to occur." It would also enable the Titans, who are not allowed back in their facility until Saturday, to get in a day of practice. Frankly, this seems like a no-brainer even if the Titans' outbreak is capped at its current three players. This will be a continually-evolving situation all week. 

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter 

Sep 29, 2020, 3:13 PM ET

 

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There is an elegant solution to solve any postponement of Ten/Pit.

Wk4: Ten and Pit on bye

Wk 7: Ten plays Pit

(Bal bye moved from Week 8 to week 7)

Wk 8: Pit at Bal (moved from week 7)

Now a Minnesota/Houston postpostment would be more complicated.  Will try and work out later.

-QG

 

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2 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

If postponed, my understanding is that this would be the BYE for any effected teams, right? So 0s for week 4, and stats for games foe whatever week they’re postponed to?

Yes, that's the approach we are taking.

So I guess we have to wait until the injury report comes out to see who the effected players are... <inset name> OUT, illness?

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12 minutes ago, themeistersinger said:

I believe it is the case that if you were exposed today, you should test positive in the next 3 to 5 days (assuming you were exposed sufficiently). 

IF this is the true number, then I feel like the best route is to take the "5 days" number to be safe.

Assume that if someone hasn't tested positive by Friday afternoon, that they won't test positive.

Allow all 'negative' players to practice Friday/Saturday/Sunday.  Reschedule both games for Monday Night.

Any downside to this?

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30 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

@Deamon asked a good question in another thread:    

 

 

As a commissioner I will be handling this like we're all SOL. If you got players you can play, play them, otherwise sorry. We all signed up for this and I've been trying to get leaguemates to talk about this *exact* scenario and had been laughed at. IMO we're screwed though. This isn't going to get better and when a cascade of cancellations and postponements start then it really will be done for FF in 2020. Please talk me off the ledge but for now I'm not doing anything different. Retroactively applying scores from future postponed games for present H2H matchups won't be happening. 

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Commish of the SLAENT Play or Die League. I had one IR and 3 IR-COVID spots and upped bench spots to 5 to counter this situation (was supposed to be a 14 team  short bench league). Basically I warned people during the draft about draft multiple players on 1 team/region and mentioned people needed to be active if they have a situation where multiple players tested positive. Make sure if a worst case scenario happens, your bench can cover you. Don't get cute and keep multiple players of a position where you only need to start 1 (QBs/Kicker).

Edited by The Frankman

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3 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

It's all subject to change of course. But for now, Titans saying "no excuses" if they have to play without practice.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/09/29/report-titans-coaches-say-no-excuses-if-they-have-to-play-without-practicing/

While none of this is good news, I will agree with others that it’s fantastic we’ve managed to get through three weeks with only this small outbreak.

hopefully the rest of the year has similar success.

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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Personally, I’m in favor of having the defensive backs for any team that faces the Steelers take the entire week off.

-JJSS owner 

:whistle: 

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We have designated an unlimited amount  of Covid players IR,

I made a google spreadsheet to track all Covid player transactions.  Basically it will
be a normal waiver bid move , but the Covid affected player that was dropped will be put on the shared spreadsheet and can only be picked up by the owner who dropped them.  
 

The owner must activate the player when they come off the Covid list or are eligible to play again.  You must drop the same exact player you picked up.

its a long time friendly league but it looks like this will be a nightmare to administer and monitor as commish....

and my team is also terrible this year for an added headache .. lol... oh well it’s just for “fun”

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My league tried to anticipate everything and added additional covid-19 specific IR slots, but we didn't address cancelled/postponed games due to Covid.  If this game is cancelled/postponed my suggestion to the league will be to allow these players to be added to the covid-19 IR slots and the fantasy games will count with whomever you can add to your line up this week. 

Retroactively adding player scores from future weeks is :crazy: Especially for leagues where the current standing have an impact on free agency, etc.

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11 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

It's all subject to change of course. But for now, Titans saying "no excuses" if they have to play without practice.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/09/29/report-titans-coaches-say-no-excuses-if-they-have-to-play-without-practicing/

That's good news. 

I feel like they should just push it to Monday anyways.  Without any/many fans, seems like an easy switch and at least would give them a Saturday practice.

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4 minutes ago, mphtrilogy said:

You must drop the same exact player you picked up.

Why did you guys add this?  Who cares who is dropped when a player comes off the covid list?  Just seems like another level of headache/hassle that you have to manage.  

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1 minute ago, Steeler said:

my suggestion to the league will be to allow these players to be added to the covid-19 IR slots and the fantasy games will count with whomever you can add to your line up this week. 
 

this is actually a very interesting suggestion, and one that I may offer up in my IDP league.

so many injuries already, and the fact that we have seven active defense of players, it could make it extremely challenging for an unanticipated by week to hit, a.k.a. game postponement.

I could conceivably allow league members as many pick ups as they want for free just for the week, and waive transaction fees for the adds. Then they can drop all of those players after the week with no ramifications.

Great suggestion. Thanks for making it in here.

1 minute ago, Steeler said:

 

Retroactively adding player scores from future weeks is :crazy: Especially for leagues where the current standing have an impact on free agency, etc.

Yeah, that would be nuts. There’s no way I’m gonna deal with that garbage.

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3 minutes ago, Steeler said:

Why did you guys add this?  Who cares who is dropped when a player comes off the covid list?  Just seems like another level of headache/hassle that you have to manage.  

Agree.  Someone suggested this in my league and it seems dumb.

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Just saw Adam Schefter reporting the Steelers game could be moved to Monday night.

as a guy who works on Sunday mornings, I would very much be in favor of that. One more time I get to watch!

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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Just now, Steeler said:

Why did you guys add this?  Who cares who is dropped when a player comes off the covid list?  Just seems like another level of headache/hassle that you have to manage.  

competitive advantage i suppose, if you speculate and pick up a player who blows up you can then evaluate the IR Covid player vs the newly acquired emergency pickup player.  Just makes it simple as this is a Covid IR move only.  If you choose to outright drop a Covid player, this would not apply.

and yeah it’s another headache, just trying time be super fair.  
 

well see how it goes...

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16 minutes ago, Steeler said:

My league tried to anticipate everything and added additional covid-19 specific IR slots, but we didn't address cancelled/postponed games due to Covid.  If this game is cancelled/postponed my suggestion to the league will be to allow these players to be added to the covid-19 IR slots and the fantasy games will count with whomever you can add to your line up this week. 

Retroactively adding player scores from future weeks is :crazy: Especially for leagues where the current standing have an impact on free agency, etc.

I wish my league mates were understanding. I brought up this scenario (exactly) before the season and suggested (at least) some covid-IR spots to help owners through weeks where they lost players to quarantine, and maybe we should discuss what to do if games were cancelled?

I got yelled at by 7 of my league mates for "bringing politics" into fantasy football. I suggested that public health issues aren't really politics? And I was told I was living under a rock.

So we have nothing in place. One owner with 4 Titans in his lineup is now panicking. 

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We just added 2 rounds/roster spots to this year's draft for COVID only.  Sucks for the FA pool but looks like it might be needed

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We added 2 Additional IR slots.. But not sure what the need is to deal with it if 2 games get postponed.. We will just treat it like a Bye week..
If the game is postponed then you can IR the player if you want, but otherwise just treat it like an other Bye week.. 

Now if they end up with half the Teams out.. well then scramble time :oldunsure: 

Edited by snogger
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12 minutes ago, Truebluey said:

I wish my league mates were understanding. I brought up this scenario (exactly) before the season and suggested (at least) some covid-IR spots to help owners through weeks where they lost players to quarantine, and maybe we should discuss what to do if games were cancelled?

I got yelled at by 7 of my league mates for "bringing politics" into fantasy football. I suggested that public health issues aren't really politics? And I was told I was living under a rock.

So we have nothing in place. One owner with 4 Titans in his lineup is now panicking. 

This sounds like a respect issue.

My league is largely a democracy. For rules changes, scheduling questions or suggestions, or any other game to game-relevant issues, I will bring everything up to a vote. If the vote is tied I make the call. If I’m involved in a given situation, the co-commish makes the call. 

But foe something unexpected like a global pandemic, I am perfectly content making executive decisions like “adding X number of covid spots“ to our rosters.

not everything requires a democratic process. Sometimes a commish needs to step up & make the call. And if the league members can’t respect that call, they should probably find a new league. In your situation what happens if a trade is approved they don’t like, or a late week score change turns a W to an L? 

If they don’t respect you as a commish for something like this, they won’t be cool in those situations either, IMO. 

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1 minute ago, snogger said:

We added 2 Additional IR slots.. But not sure what the need is to deal with it if 2 games get postponed.. We will just treat it like a Bye week..
If the game is postponed then you can IR the player if you want, but otherwise just treat it like an other Bye week.. 

Now if they end up with half the Teams out.. well then scramble time :oldunsure: 

 

I don't think you can do that in the common formats (ESPN, Yahoo). A postponed or moved game will mean those players are essentially on a Bye, which means they can't be put on IR.

I am actually interested to see if the corporate behemoths think this through and list all those players as "Out".

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2 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

This sounds like a respect issue.

My league is largely a democracy. For rules changes, scheduling questions or suggestions, or any other game to game-relevant issues, I will bring everything up to a vote. If the vote is tied I make the call. If I’m involved in a given situation, the co-commish makes the call. 

But foe something unexpected like a global pandemic, I am perfectly content making executive decisions like “adding X number of covid spots“ to our rosters.

not everything requires a democratic process. Sometimes a commish needs to step up & make the call. And if the league members can’t respect that call, they should probably find a new league. In your situation what happens if a trade is approved they don’t like, or a late week score change turns a W to an L? 

If they don’t respect you as a commish for something like this, they won’t be cool in those situations either, IMO. 

Thankfully I'm not the Commish.  I was, years ago, but I found downloading all the stats from the internet using my 5 1/4" floppy software was too time-consuming.

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2 minutes ago, Truebluey said:
6 minutes ago, snogger said:

We added 2 Additional IR slots.. But not sure what the need is to deal with it if 2 games get postponed.. We will just treat it like a Bye week..
If the game is postponed then you can IR the player if you want, but otherwise just treat it like an other Bye week.. 

Now if they end up with half the Teams out.. well then scramble time :oldunsure: 

 

I don't think you can do that in the common formats (ESPN, Yahoo). A postponed or moved game will mean those players are essentially on a Bye, which means they can't be put on IR.

I am actually interested to see if the corporate behemoths think this through and list all those players as "Out".

Yea, my post was under the impression that the NFL would list all players as "Out" therefore allowing owners to move the players they want to IR.. :mellow: 

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