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NFL and Covid Issues - Initially Asked in Shark Pool To Keep it 100% NFL (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
I agree that the NFL is not fully following the conservative / safest approach on how best to handle things. Depending upon which update people want to buy into, the CDC has used 10-14 days in isolation as their recommendation for what to do when someone is exposed to someone that tested positive. The league seems to be doing their own thing, as they don't seem to care about exposure, they only care about who tests positive.
Jay Glazer reported Cam is asymptomatic. No one has reported that Newton has experienced any symptoms (although Cam himself posted about "taking this time to get healthy," which seems like an odd thing to say if you weren't actually sick).
My guess is it's very difficult to spread the virus via casual contact while testing negative and being asymptomatic but it's hard to find anyone who is definitive about it one way or the other.
It's annoying trying to look it up because all the articles want to talk about symptomatic vs asymptomatic instead of pre-positive vs post-positive. But generally speaking if you test negative it means the virus has not yet incubated and most of all it means your viral load is extremely low and that's why I think it becomes very difficult to pass it on.
I think a misconception exists that a single particle of a virus can infect someone. But it's not like that. This virus does have a very low viral load needed for infection, believed to be around 1,000 viral particles. Now a cough releases 3,000 viral particles so in context 1,000 is not much but that's why I stressed casual contact and why masks and social distancing actually works because we can all have very minimal exposure to the virus and never become infected. When the viral loads increase you not only stand a greater chance of infection but the higher the viral loads will generally lead to more severe symptoms, which is why we health care workers for example have suffered so much.
But the higher a persons viral load it is believed they shed more of the virus and are considerably more infectious. I believe a person, like Cam, who tests negative has a very low viral load and exposing other people becomes far less likely and my guess is virtually non-existent with a little social distancing.
It's annoying trying to look it up because all the articles want to talk about symptomatic vs asymptomatic instead of pre-positive vs post-positive. But generally speaking if you test negative it means the virus has not yet incubated and most of all it means your viral load is extremely low and that's why I think it becomes very difficult to pass it on.
I think a misconception exists that a single particle of a virus can infect someone. But it's not like that. This virus does have a very low viral load needed for infection, believed to be around 1,000 viral particles. Now a cough releases 3,000 viral particles so in context 1,000 is not much but that's why I stressed casual contact and why masks and social distancing actually works because we can all have very minimal exposure to the virus and never become infected. When the viral loads increase you not only stand a greater chance of infection but the higher the viral loads will generally lead to more severe symptoms, which is why we health care workers for example have suffered so much.
But the higher a persons viral load it is believed they shed more of the virus and are considerably more infectious. I believe a person, like Cam, who tests negative has a very low viral load and exposing other people becomes far less likely and my guess is virtually non-existent with a little social distancing.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The memo to teams says that the league could penalize teams by loss of draft picks or even forfeiture of games if the rescheduling of games or “impact to other teams” is determined to be from protocol violations.
Link
As I said in the Shark Pool thread:
Sounds like 2 things:
1) The NFL does not have any viable plan in place in case a team would not be able to play 2 games due to Covid
2) This is a shot across the bow at the Titans with the NFL investigating and believing that the Titans violated league protocols. If their game against the Bills this week can’t be played, it sounds like there’s a very real chance the league may force the Titans to forfeit rather than deal with the consequences of not having a decent plan in place if a team has to miss multiple games.
Link
As I said in the Shark Pool thread:
Sounds like 2 things:
1) The NFL does not have any viable plan in place in case a team would not be able to play 2 games due to Covid
2) This is a shot across the bow at the Titans with the NFL investigating and believing that the Titans violated league protocols. If their game against the Bills this week can’t be played, it sounds like there’s a very real chance the league may force the Titans to forfeit rather than deal with the consequences of not having a decent plan in place if a team has to miss multiple games.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
We'll see. The league is trying to flex its muscle. I doubt they would retroactively punish the Titans at this point. It's not like they can undo what happened. The league generally will punish people moving forward once everyone gets the memo. Forfeiting games and draft picks seems a bit Draconian. Maybe if they have footage of half of a team's defense going to a rave with 1,000 mask less people all piled on top of each other.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Would players even care about their team losing draft picks? Seems like that’s better for job security.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The inference is that the front office and coaches need to do a better job self-policing their own players. Some of the the players may not care, but the nonplayers will care.
They were discussing Cam Newton on the radio today. Apparently there are pictures of him on Facebook taking selfies with a few people at a local mall. Some he has a mask on properly, others he has a mask on improperly (not fully covering his nose). Cam also has been flying to Atlanta after games and before the start of weekly practice to see his kids. I don't know what the official NFL rules are, but I am guessing they would probably frown on either of those. Are players not supposed to go shopping? Are they not supposed to keep fans happy? Are they not supposed to see their children?
I don't know what should be considered reasonable or reasonable given the world we live in. On a scale of 1-10, how bad are those things that Cam did?
themeistersinger
Footballguy
NFL stresses new COVID-19 protocols in memo; violations causing schedule adjustments could result in forfeiture of games
https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-stresses-new-covid-19-protocols-in-memo-says-violations-that-result-in-sched
https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-stresses-new-covid-19-protocols-in-memo-says-violations-that-result-in-sched
themeistersinger
Footballguy
In response, the league has changed its protocols, requiring a longer on-boarding process for free-agent tryouts, banning gatherings outside of the club facility, limiting the number of tryouts permitted per week and implementing a league-wide video monitoring system to ensure compliance.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I assume the moderator is just as concerned if there is speculation that there are secret league plans for covid response if there is no link to them. Right?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I don't think it's right that people in the general public know that he is flying to Atlanta, just saying that it's his right to see his kids. And also it shames being a parent or dad and that sends a bad message as well. "We caught Cam flying down to see his bleepin' kids in Atlanta, what a menace to the NFL"
BoltBacker
Footballguy
To be clear he was given a choice in all this. Plenty of NBA players missed their kids for a couple of months. Maybe the sentiment of your post makes me bristle a bit because my home is in a Navy town and plenty of folks make choices that includes missing their kids for a few months for their well being and they aren't compensated millions of dollars for it like NBA/NFL players.
That's a LONG day.Anarchy99 said:
Also, just a shoutout to @Anarchy99 on the "source" thing. It took a couple of seconds for you to add the "on the radio" but that helps all of us understand the story better. Details on sources like that are always helpful. Thanks.
I truly don't know the rules for what players are doing outside the facility and how they're enforced.
If I'm Robert Kraft, I'd be thinking about chartering a plane for Newton for this. How much is a win worth in the NFL? They have a lot better chance with Newton on the field.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
No new positives for Titans this morning.
That’s good news as it means they can get back to the facility tomorrow to start practicing assuming no new positives tomorrow as well. So at this point, it looks like the game against Buffalo this week is still on.
That’s good news as it means they can get back to the facility tomorrow to start practicing assuming no new positives tomorrow as well. So at this point, it looks like the game against Buffalo this week is still on.
The Frankman
Footballguy
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
My feelings about some of this has changed based on how things are rolling along.
-First, the NFL is coming down hard and I think the other 30-31 NFL teams will take notice and re-check, re-button up, it was a good "Fire Drill" if you will and I think it might help prevent future outbreaks.
-Based on how they played the KC-NE game and also the Saints-Detroit, it looks like just one or two isolated positive tests does not mean the whole game is stopped. I do think owners need to prepare that a skill position player can be held out if they test positive and it might not be a push to a bye week for the whole team. So you are going to lose a game or two as that player is quarantined.
-First, the NFL is coming down hard and I think the other 30-31 NFL teams will take notice and re-check, re-button up, it was a good "Fire Drill" if you will and I think it might help prevent future outbreaks.
-Based on how they played the KC-NE game and also the Saints-Detroit, it looks like just one or two isolated positive tests does not mean the whole game is stopped. I do think owners need to prepare that a skill position player can be held out if they test positive and it might not be a push to a bye week for the whole team. So you are going to lose a game or two as that player is quarantined.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Been doing this a long time as well and realize that his situation is unique to anything we have had to address in the 25+ years of our league.
spodog
Footballguy
I would think it would be almost impossible to do a valid study of pre-positive vs post-positive for several reasons:
1) Symptomatic vs asymptomatic is a definitive thing that can be measured and recorded amongst the population that have tested positive, whereas pre vs post is not
2) The point in time in the progression of C-19 infection where positive test results occur is too unpredictable. Some people get tests early in this timeline due to exposure, or potential exposure, some get tested after believing they have symptoms, some get tested due to symptoms from other bugs or conditions, some don't get tested at all
3) There are multiple different types of tests that are being relied upon that yield a result summarized as positive or negative, but what that answer means varys a great deal from test to test and even from lab to lab
4) The false positive and false negative rates amongst the tests are so high that even if 1, 2 and 3 above weren't true, this alone would make the study results difficult to interpret
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spodog
Footballguy
Yes, the Patriots got to enjoy one of those kind of days, similar to what many of us mere mortals have had to incur in our working life.
spodog
Footballguy
Well the NFL botched their opportunity to create a schedule in the offseason that could have had a lot more flexibility built into it to accommodate what happened here in Week 4 and what is likely to occur again as the season moves forward.
spodog
Footballguy
This is a great point. Given the way the Pats D shut down the Chiefs in the first half, that game with Cam could definitely have been put in the W column for NE and would have been an important road win come playoff tiebreaker time.
Kraft has the ability to fly a charter to FL to goof off in a massage parlor the weekend of the AFC Championship game, but it doesn't occur to him to use one for this purpose?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I saw / read / heard that Cam was traveling back and forth from Atlanta on a chartered plane. Not sure who paid for it or provided the plane.
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
Depends on whether he is on the list for exposure or testing positive. If the latter, seems like it would be a bigger story i.e. every time another Titans player tested positive last week.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Murray did not fly to KC with the team, but he was staying at the hotel that NE has offered players to stay in next to their stadium.
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
Well, very good that he wasn't on the plane even if he didn't test positive but was exposed
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
That’s one of the unknowns so far. It doesn’t sound like he was in close contact with Cam. So at this point, there has not been any reporting as to whether he tested positive or not.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Stephon Gilmore tests positive today
per NFLnetwork
per NFLnetwork
The Frankman
Footballguy
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>>Source confirms that Gilmore tested positive and the Patriots won’t be practicing today. Third Patriot to test positive in the last week. The Titans also have “at least” one more positive and aren’t returning to work today. Pats-Broncos and Titans-Bills are both in doubt.<<
https://mobile.twitter.com/benvolin?lang=en
https://mobile.twitter.com/benvolin?lang=en
The Frankman
Footballguy
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djjosee
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
Titans should forfeit last week and this week and try to move forward. Can’t play doubleheader’s.
PennStater77
Footballguy
They really need to forfeit games going forward.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Ok. I’ll bite. Why? People can catch it following protocols and living their daily lives. That’s grounds for a forfeit? If there are players infected on both teams like NE and KC, should they both teams forfeit?
Pipes
Footballguy
Yeah can't forfeit games unless there is a clear violation of protocols. How do we know the Titans are doing anything wrong besides getting sick? Were a bunch of them out in public without masks (like the Raiders did with that charitable event last week).
Pipes
Footballguy
Absolutely not if a team did nothing wrong. Even with the best measures in place can't always control getting sick.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Seems like a pretty obvious stopgap fix if the Patriots and Titans can't go this week - their opponents (Bills and Broncos) are supposed to play later on this season. Just let them play this week.
Complicating the Titans/Bills game issue is that the Bills play on Thursday night next week. They can't delay the game until Mon/Tue next week, because then they'd have to reschedule next week's TNF.
Complicating the Titans/Bills game issue is that the Bills play on Thursday night next week. They can't delay the game until Mon/Tue next week, because then they'd have to reschedule next week's TNF.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Wow. This is not promising. This seems like evidence that clearly supports that that the virus having up to a 2 week incubation period is not hugely uncommon.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Too late. I don't think you should ask NFL teams to suddenly switch opponents halfway through the week. If this were baseball, sure, but there's too much opponent-specific game-planning in football to make a switch this late.
More generally though, the league should have had a plan in place for handling these situations that doesn't rely on lucky breaks with scheduling.
Edit: Just to clarify, this isn't a "Bills homer" thing. Buffalo could face off against Denver with 24 hour's notice and do just fine. But imagine a case where flipping opponents resulted in a critical game being played with no serious preparation (like BAL-PIT for example).
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PennStater77
Footballguy
How are they getting sick if they are doing everything right? Protocols were put in place to not have this stuff happen.
Pipes
Footballguy
People get sick and they aren't living in a bubble. No protocol minus complete isolation is 100% effective. Forfeits should only happen if you can prove negligence and the only obvious instance we've seen of that is the Raiders charitable event last week.
