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I'm still undecided. (1 Viewer)

Mr.Pack

Footballguy
So I see people in the PSF making fun of people who are undecided, but here I am. Believe it or not I and my wife are on the fence and still have no clue who we are going to vote for, or if we will vote.

Voted for Trump in 2016 based on my hope that he would not be politics as usual, that things would change politically in Washington. Call me naïve and that's fine, I was, and still am fed up with Politics as we know it. I've said many times this country won't change politically until we have a viable 3rd party.

I'm not a Trump supporter. I do like a lot of the policies he's signed  and he is one of the few Presidents who's actually kept a lot of his campaign promises. He acts like a spoiled child and I hate that. If he had never found Twitter we'd be much better off, but he can't help himself and the next time he takes the high road will be the first. However the Dems fought him from the Inauguration with none of them showing up for it and it's been uphill ever since. Worst bipartisan politics I've ever seen. He's far from Presidential but we knew this coming in. We didn't know he was going to act like a moron day in and day out. Herein lies my dilemma.

I started watching the Town Hall with Biden last night and he really can be a bumbling fool at times. I did like what I heard so far and a vote for him would hopefully bring us back to a normality in this country. I need to hear more, especially his financial and tax policies. Raising taxes in my book is a vote killer, but I'm open right now.

I want this country to get back to normal. Blaming this all on one guy like a lot of you in the PSF and throughout the country do is laughable. Obama set the tone in his first term by stating that elections have consequences, get over it, I won. I don't think he was good for this country. I think Trump has been good for this country policy-wise for sure, but I don't know if I can overlook the ####storm that follows him.

Can I bite the bullet for some type of normalcy for 4 years? Can I trust he will serve all 4 years? That may be the biggest knock on a Biden vote for me, President Harris is not something I ever want.

Flame away. But I am undecided.

 
So I see people in the PSF making fun of people who are undecided, but here I am. Believe it or not I and my wife are on the fence and still have no clue who we are going to vote for, or if we will vote.

Voted for Trump in 2016 based on my hope that he would not be politics as usual, that things would change politically in Washington. Call me naïve and that's fine, I was, and still am fed up with Politics as we know it. I've said many times this country won't change politically until we have a viable 3rd party.

I'm not a Trump supporter. I do like a lot of the policies he's signed  and he is one of the few Presidents who's actually kept a lot of his campaign promises. He acts like a spoiled child and I hate that. If he had never found Twitter we'd be much better off, but he can't help himself and the next time he takes the high road will be the first. However the Dems fought him from the Inauguration with none of them showing up for it and it's been uphill ever since. Worst bipartisan politics I've ever seen. He's far from Presidential but we knew this coming in. We didn't know he was going to act like a moron day in and day out. Herein lies my dilemma.

I started watching the Town Hall with Biden last night and he really can be a bumbling fool at times. I did like what I heard so far and a vote for him would hopefully bring us back to a normality in this country. I need to hear more, especially his financial and tax policies. Raising taxes in my book is a vote killer, but I'm open right now.

I want this country to get back to normal. Blaming this all on one guy like a lot of you in the PSF and throughout the country do is laughable. Obama set the tone in his first term by stating that elections have consequences, get over it, I won. I don't think he was good for this country. I think Trump has been good for this country policy-wise for sure, but I don't know if I can overlook the ####storm that follows him.

Can I bite the bullet for some type of normalcy for 4 years? Can I trust he will serve all 4 years? That may be the biggest knock on a Biden vote for me, President Harris is not something I ever want.

Flame away. But I am undecided.
I don't know how you feel about CNBC, but they give a pretty good synopsis of his tax plans here. To summarize even further, if you make less than $400K your taxes wouldn't go up. If you make between $400K and $700K your taxes would go up about 1%.

I think your concerns about Harris are mostly unfounded. She's a moderate. I think Biden will be fine for at least 4 years. He may not even run for reelection after that either.

But to me, it sounds like you should vote for a 3rd party candidate. If you really believe we need a viable 3rd party, that's the one of the best ways to help make that happen.

 
A vote for Biden is a vote for Harris. No one in their right mind can think Joe has 4 presidential years in him.  The guy had to take the whole day off to have the energy for a layup town hall. 
Careful, you might get accused of not being mature.

I'm not sure if I would bet money on either of these guys making it 4 years.  The math works against both of them.

 
So I see people in the PSF making fun of people who are undecided, but here I am. Believe it or not I and my wife are on the fence and still have no clue who we are going to vote for, or if we will vote.

Voted for Trump in 2016 based on my hope that he would not be politics as usual, that things would change politically in Washington. Call me naïve and that's fine, I was, and still am fed up with Politics as we know it. I've said many times this country won't change politically until we have a viable 3rd party.

I'm not a Trump supporter. I do like a lot of the policies he's signed  and he is one of the few Presidents who's actually kept a lot of his campaign promises. He acts like a spoiled child and I hate that. If he had never found Twitter we'd be much better off, but he can't help himself and the next time he takes the high road will be the first. However the Dems fought him from the Inauguration with none of them showing up for it and it's been uphill ever since. Worst bipartisan politics I've ever seen. He's far from Presidential but we knew this coming in. We didn't know he was going to act like a moron day in and day out. Herein lies my dilemma.

I started watching the Town Hall with Biden last night and he really can be a bumbling fool at times. I did like what I heard so far and a vote for him would hopefully bring us back to a normality in this country. I need to hear more, especially his financial and tax policies. Raising taxes in my book is a vote killer, but I'm open right now.

I want this country to get back to normal. Blaming this all on one guy like a lot of you in the PSF and throughout the country do is laughable. Obama set the tone in his first term by stating that elections have consequences, get over it, I won. I don't think he was good for this country. I think Trump has been good for this country policy-wise for sure, but I don't know if I can overlook the ####storm that follows him.

Can I bite the bullet for some type of normalcy for 4 years? Can I trust he will serve all 4 years? That may be the biggest knock on a Biden vote for me, President Harris is not something I ever want.

Flame away. But I am undecided.
If that's how you feel then I think you answered your own question - the only way to make a 3rd party viable is to vote for it.

 
As a moderate Republican the only I way I see the party moving back to the center is Trump to getting trounced and Republicans relooking at themselves and where they should be. Call it wishful thinking I guess.

So a short-term Biden vote is me hoping for long-term normalcy and balance.

 
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If that's how you feel then I think you answered your own question - the only way to make a 3rd party viable is to vote for it.
I get that, but my one vote won't make a viable 3rd party.

ETA, when someone decent runs, I'll vote that way but we haven't had anyone who would even move the needle towards a viable 3rd party since Perot.

 
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I did this in 2016. If it was anyone but Trump would probably do the same this time around. But I can't with him. I've just grown to abhor him.
Me too. And if I was in a swing state that would have to seriously reconsider it. But as the state I am in is already decided the only way I feel my vote has an impact to to help get the 3rd party to the 15% national debates threshold.   

 
As a moderate Republican the only I way I see the party moving back to the center is Trump to getting trounced and Republicans relooking at themselves and where they should be. Call it wishful thinking I guess.

So a short-term Biden vote is me hoping for long-term normalcy and balance.
:hifive:

 
I'm not a Trump supporter. I do like a lot of the policies he's signed  and he is one of the few Presidents who's actually kept a lot of his campaign promises. He acts like a spoiled child and I hate that. If he had never found Twitter we'd be much better off, but he can't help himself and the next time he takes the high road will be the first. However the Dems fought him from the Inauguration with none of them showing up for it and it's been uphill ever since. Worst bipartisan politics I've ever seen. He's far from Presidential but we knew this coming in. We didn't know he was going to act like a moron day in and day out. Herein lies my dilemma.
Not attacking at all here I promise. I'm genuinely curious as to why you state the bold. Put in the form of a question, which campaign promises do you think he's kept?

 
So I see people in the PSF making fun of people who are undecided, but here I am. Believe it or not I and my wife are on the fence and still have no clue who we are going to vote for, or if we will vote.

Voted for Trump in 2016 based on my hope that he would not be politics as usual, that things would change politically in Washington. Call me naïve and that's fine, I was, and still am fed up with Politics as we know it. I've said many times this country won't change politically until we have a viable 3rd party.

I'm not a Trump supporter. I do like a lot of the policies he's signed  and he is one of the few Presidents who's actually kept a lot of his campaign promises. He acts like a spoiled child and I hate that. If he had never found Twitter we'd be much better off, but he can't help himself and the next time he takes the high road will be the first. However the Dems fought him from the Inauguration with none of them showing up for it and it's been uphill ever since. Worst bipartisan politics I've ever seen. He's far from Presidential but we knew this coming in. We didn't know he was going to act like a moron day in and day out. Herein lies my dilemma.

I started watching the Town Hall with Biden last night and he really can be a bumbling fool at times. I did like what I heard so far and a vote for him would hopefully bring us back to a normality in this country. I need to hear more, especially his financial and tax policies. Raising taxes in my book is a vote killer, but I'm open right now.

I want this country to get back to normal. Blaming this all on one guy like a lot of you in the PSF and throughout the country do is laughable. Obama set the tone in his first term by stating that elections have consequences, get over it, I won. I don't think he was good for this country. I think Trump has been good for this country policy-wise for sure, but I don't know if I can overlook the ####storm that follows him.

Can I bite the bullet for some type of normalcy for 4 years? Can I trust he will serve all 4 years? That may be the biggest knock on a Biden vote for me, President Harris is not something I ever want.

Flame away. But I am undecided.
You already know the answer.

 
As a moderate Republican the only I way I see the party moving back to the center is Trump to getting trounced and Republicans relooking at themselves and where they should be. Call it wishful thinking I guess.

So a short-term Biden vote is me hoping for long-term normalcy and balance.
I am a moderate Democrat, but really want a functional GOP. Even a close loss, will not rid us of Trumpism in the GOP

 
So I see people in the PSF making fun of people who are undecided, but here I am. Believe it or not I and my wife are on the fence and still have no clue who we are going to vote for, or if we will vote.

Voted for Trump in 2016 based on my hope that he would not be politics as usual, that things would change politically in Washington. Call me naïve and that's fine, I was, and still am fed up with Politics as we know it. I've said many times this country won't change politically until we have a viable 3rd party.

I'm not a Trump supporter. I do like a lot of the policies he's signed  and he is one of the few Presidents who's actually kept a lot of his campaign promises. He acts like a spoiled child and I hate that. If he had never found Twitter we'd be much better off, but he can't help himself and the next time he takes the high road will be the first. However the Dems fought him from the Inauguration with none of them showing up for it and it's been uphill ever since. Worst bipartisan politics I've ever seen. He's far from Presidential but we knew this coming in. We didn't know he was going to act like a moron day in and day out. Herein lies my dilemma.

I started watching the Town Hall with Biden last night and he really can be a bumbling fool at times. I did like what I heard so far and a vote for him would hopefully bring us back to a normality in this country. I need to hear more, especially his financial and tax policies. Raising taxes in my book is a vote killer, but I'm open right now.

I want this country to get back to normal. Blaming this all on one guy like a lot of you in the PSF and throughout the country do is laughable. Obama set the tone in his first term by stating that elections have consequences, get over it, I won. I don't think he was good for this country. I think Trump has been good for this country policy-wise for sure, but I don't know if I can overlook the ####storm that follows him.

Can I bite the bullet for some type of normalcy for 4 years? Can I trust he will serve all 4 years? That may be the biggest knock on a Biden vote for me, President Harris is not something I ever want.

Flame away. But I am undecided.
He isn't the disease. He's a symptom. He exists because of our priorities. If we really want change then we must act accordingly. @EZD222 nailed it. For those of us that lean conservative but are disgusted by the republican party - the best thing that can happen is a bloodbath next month. I do not know if they will reform, but the only way they will is if they get throttled.

 
Not attacking at all here I promise. I'm genuinely curious as to why you state the bold. Put in the form of a question, which campaign promises do you think he's kept?
promiseskept.com

And don't fall into the trap of not counting the promise made just because you don't like the policy.

 
So I see people in the PSF making fun of people who are undecided, but here I am. Believe it or not I and my wife are on the fence and still have no clue who we are going to vote for, or if we will vote.

Voted for Trump in 2016 based on my hope that he would not be politics as usual, that things would change politically in Washington. Call me naïve and that's fine, I was, and still am fed up with Politics as we know it. I've said many times this country won't change politically until we have a viable 3rd party.

I'm not a Trump supporter. I do like a lot of the policies he's signed  and he is one of the few Presidents who's actually kept a lot of his campaign promises. He acts like a spoiled child and I hate that. If he had never found Twitter we'd be much better off, but he can't help himself and the next time he takes the high road will be the first. However the Dems fought him from the Inauguration with none of them showing up for it and it's been uphill ever since. Worst bipartisan politics I've ever seen. He's far from Presidential but we knew this coming in. We didn't know he was going to act like a moron day in and day out. Herein lies my dilemma.

I started watching the Town Hall with Biden last night and he really can be a bumbling fool at times. I did like what I heard so far and a vote for him would hopefully bring us back to a normality in this country. I need to hear more, especially his financial and tax policies. Raising taxes in my book is a vote killer, but I'm open right now.

I want this country to get back to normal. Blaming this all on one guy like a lot of you in the PSF and throughout the country do is laughable. Obama set the tone in his first term by stating that elections have consequences, get over it, I won. I don't think he was good for this country. I think Trump has been good for this country policy-wise for sure, but I don't know if I can overlook the ####storm that follows him.

Can I bite the bullet for some type of normalcy for 4 years? Can I trust he will serve all 4 years? That may be the biggest knock on a Biden vote for me, President Harris is not something I ever want.

Flame away. But I am undecided.
Two questions for you with regard to what you wrote 

1) You said he's one of the few Presidents who kept his campaign promises. I completely disagree with that statement but I'm curious what makes you say that. Can you specifically point out a few of those? 

2) Why is raising taxes a vote killer? I know we all want more money for ourselves, but taxes do serve a purpose. Would it matter at all what your taxes would be used for? Do you think taxes should never go up?

 
With trillion plus dollar deficits and a 27 trillion dollar national debt, taxes are going to have to go up eventually. At least for some people.
The details escape me, but my memory is saying the middle class tax cuts are scheduled to expire shortly after Trump's hypothetical 8th year in office while the corporate ones are permanent. Without intervention prior I wonder what we'll do at that point with the deficit on its current track...

 
So I see people in the PSF making fun of people who are undecided, but here I am. Believe it or not I and my wife are on the fence and still have no clue who we are going to vote for, or if we will vote.
Same here. If I was in a swing state, it would be a much tougher call, but being in NY my vote is useless so I will leave the top of the ticket blank. I still don't hate Trump but I don't want my name on a second term. The least I can do is not allow him a popular vote win.

 
Same here. If I was in a swing state, it would be a much tougher call, but being in NY my vote is useless so I will leave the top of the ticket blank. I still don't hate Trump but I don't want my name on a second term. The least I can do is not allow him a popular vote win.
Give your vote some meaning jamny.....

Me too. And if I was in a swing state that would have to seriously reconsider it. But as the state I am in is already decided the only way I feel my vote has an impact to to help get the 3rd party to the 15% national debates threshold.   

 
Mr. Pack - thanks for sharing. I really didn't know any undecideds, so I appreciate you posting.

And good luck with your decision.

 
My null vote has meaning. 
Sure I wasn’t implying personally though, and if taken that way I apologize, I understand it has meaning to you. I was speaking to the larger extent. Power was probably a better word to use.  

 
promiseskept.com

And don't fall into the trap of not counting the promise made just because you don't like the policy.
I checked out the site. It generally lists what the Trump campaign deems as accomplishments. It does not appear to tie in campaign promises to specified actions taken to fulfill those promises. 

For example, I'm looking for something like:

"Campaign promise: Trump, in his second debate with Hillary, promised to build a wall along the entire southern border and to have the country of Mexico pay for it." 

Action taken to keep promise: Trump has rereouted X dollars to hiring contractors to build wall. To date, 5 new miles have been built and other areas refurbished. Mexico has paid $0 dollars towards these actions." 

I ask it this way because I'm genuinely not aware of what specific promises he's actually kept other than maybe the promises to nominate conservative justices and to try to repeal parts of the ACA. I'm curious if the OP reaches the same conclusion going through the same exercise. 

 
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Most definitely I lean conservative...generally could care less about all the personalities and social issues that dominate current political conversation.

IMO the issue of climate change dwarfs all others combined, affects every U.S. citizen and aspect of American life, and we are far behind going backward.

So until the GOP comes up with some answers (or at least gets out of the way) on that issue I simply won't be able to look young people in the eye supporting Republicans at the federal level.

$0.02

 
With trillion plus dollar deficits and a 27 trillion dollar national debt, taxes are going to have to go up eventually. At least for some people.
Taxes will never go up again. Too many people have been trained to see the word "tax" as a vote killer. We will keep borrowing and inflating until China eventually buys the whole country out from under us.

 
I checked out the site. It generally lists what the Trump campaign deems as accomplishments. It does not appear to tie in campaign promises to specified actions taken to fulfill those promises. 

For example, I'm looking for something like:

"Campaign promise: Trump, in his second debate with Hillary, promised to build a wall along the entire southern border and to have the country of Mexico pay for it." 

Action taken to keep promise: Trump has rereouted X dollars to hiring contractors to build wall. To date, 5 new miles have been built and other areas refurbished. Mexico has paid $0 dollars towards these action." 

I ask it this way because I'm genuinely not aware of what specific promises he's actually kept other than maybe the promises to nominate conservative justices and to try to repeal parts of the ACA. I'm curious if the OP reaches the same conclusion going through the same exercise. 
At least add Tax Reform and Border Walls to that list.

 
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I checked out the site. It generally lists what the Trump campaign deems as accomplishments. It does not appear to tie in campaign promises to specified actions taken to fulfill those promises. 

For example, I'm looking for something like:

"Campaign promise: Trump, in his second debate with Hillary, promised to build a wall along the entire southern border and to have the country of Mexico pay for it." 

Action taken to keep promise: Trump has rereouted X dollars to hiring contractors to build wall. To date, 5 new miles have been built and other areas refurbished. Mexico has paid $0 dollars towards these action." 

I ask it this way because I'm genuinely not aware of what specific promises he's actually kept other than maybe the promises to nominate conservative justices and to try to repeal parts of the ACA. I'm curious if the OP reaches the same conclusion going through the same exercise. 
The NY Times Daily podcast had an episode this week specifically on promises kept/not kept. I was surprised at the kept column (although its interpretative).

Kept: Deregulation, immigration, taxes, SC, pulling out of global arrangements.

Failed on the ACA, the wall, jobs/manufacturing, trade deficit, national debt, draining the swamp, COVID.

 
  • Smile
Reactions: Zow
@Mr.Pack tune out the noise, Trump has improved the everyday life of American citizens. More in 4 years than the 8 previous years did. Biden has the media and big tech on his side and there's still not a single thing appealing about him besides "But Trump!". I'm not crazy about Trump as a person either but our other option is a DC lifelong underachiever that abused the system like many have in the past to become wealthy. Hopefully we have better options next time but this is where we are at. 

 
The NY Times Daily podcast had an episode this week specifically on promises kept/not kept. I was surprised at the kept column (although its interpretative).

Kept: Deregulation, immigration, taxes, SC, pulling out of global arrangements.

Failed on the ACA, the wall, jobs/manufacturing, trade deficit, national debt, draining the swamp, COVID.
Not bad for the NYT I guess.  A couple arguments I would make:

- You got to give at least 50% for repealing the individual mandate.

- The majority of the wall is funded and currently under construction.  People that think billion dollar construction projects happen in less than 4 years do not know of what they speak.

- Without Covid the jobs is a success.

- I will leave covid alone even though there is an argument there to be made.

 
I guess I appreciate the idea behind this thread. But honestly.....if you still think its even remotely ok for a President to act the way Trump does (which clearly you do, as you're still considering voting for him) you're gonna vote for Trump. That's your prerogative and I'm not judging, but that's the deal.

75 years from now, students are going to be FASCINATED when they attempt to study and understand how we got to this point.

 
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He isn't the disease. He's a symptom. He exists because of our priorities. If we really want change then we must act accordingly. @EZD222 nailed it. For those of us that lean conservative but are disgusted by the republican party - the best thing that can happen is a bloodbath next month. I do not know if they will reform, but the only way they will is if they get throttled.
He's allowed the Marjorie Taylor Greene's of this world to succeed, elevate, and excel and that terrifies me politically.

 
At least add Tax Reform and Border Walls to that list.
Fair (although I'm not entirely certainly if you're referring to something different given the use of proper nouns/capitalization). I thought the borderwall promise was implied in my example used there - although I'd argue that he hasn't kept the bulk of that promise. I agree that he has tried to keep the promise related to building more wall. 

 
My wife is a lot like Pack. I hope the swaying factor for her is that character counts. But if you really don't want to vote for Biden or Trump, vote third party or don't vote at all for President (but still vote for down-ticket races). 

 
@Mr.Pack tune out the noise, Trump has improved the everyday life of American citizens. More in 4 years than the 8 previous years did. Biden has the media and big tech on his side and there's still not a single thing appealing about him besides "But Trump!". I'm not crazy about Trump as a person either but our other option is a DC lifelong underachiever that abused the system like many have in the past to become wealthy. Hopefully we have better options next time but this is where we are at. 
A dystopian nightmare is an improvement?

 
As a moderate Republican the only I way I see the party moving back to the center is Trump to getting trounced and Republicans relooking at themselves and where they should be. Call it wishful thinking I guess.

So a short-term Biden vote is me hoping for long-term normalcy and balance.
As a centrist democrat Im ready for a centrist party....  Give the democratic party to the AOCs and Bernie bros,  Give the Republican part to the tea partists and the Qanons....  and I would be happy to have a 3 party system joining the moderate repubs. ....  Im voting for Biden  this time though because Im not sure our constitution survives 4 more years of Trump.  The time to form a 3rd party/  support a legitimate 3rd party movement is after the election imo.....  There is just no time to do anything other than place a throw away vote for 3rd party at this point.  

 
As a centrist democrat Im ready for a centrist party....  Give the democratic party to the AOCs and Bernie bros,  Give the Republican part to the tea partists and the Qanons....  and I would be happy to have a 3 party system joining the moderate repubs. ....  Im voting for Biden  this time though because Im not sure our constitution survives 4 more years of Trump.  The time to form a 3rd party/  support a legitimate 3rd party movement is after the election imo.....  There is just no time to do anything other than place a throw away vote for 3rd party at this point.  
I’m with you, how did this not progress from last election though? It makes so much sense yet we seem to be going in the opposite direction. 

 
Fair (although I'm not entirely certainly if you're referring to something different given the use of proper nouns/capitalization). I thought the borderwall promise was implied in my example used there - although I'd argue that he hasn't kept the bulk of that promise. I agree that he has tried to keep the promise related to building more wall. 
I know what the media tells you, but, I can tell you for a fact that a company I have dealings with has over 2 billion dollars worth of border work under contract.  And I can also tell you those aren't the only contracts that have been awarded.

No one with an ounce of knowledge would expect the Army Corps of Engineers to be able to award, design and finish building billion dollar contracts in 4 years.  The government just can't act that fast.  

If Biden gets elected he can cancel all those contracts.  The contractors are getting paid daily (instead of monthly) just in case that happens, but, there will be a fair amount of wall constructed.  If Trump wins, 8 years should be enough to fulfill the vast majority of the promise if not all of it.

 
If Biden gets elected he can cancel all those contracts.  The contractors are getting paid daily (instead of monthly) just in case that happens, but, there will be a fair amount of wall constructed.  If Trump wins, 8 years should be enough to fulfill the vast majority of the promise if not all of it.
If contracts have been awarded and funds obligated, how could he legally cancel them?  

 
@Mr.Pack i remember the old days of this board. You were one of the biggest supporters of George W Bush.

You have almost always been honorable in your actions and discussions on this board. Always paid out on bets and acknowledged when you were wrong. 

It is clear you have a conservative viewpoint. Respectful conservative viewpoints are needed more than ever.

As a man of integrity, consider how the end of the last three conservative presidents have been recessions or borderline depressions. You are not wrong for your beliefs and core values. This current administration does not deserve your support. It is the antithesis of you. 

 
If contracts have been awarded and funds obligated, how could he legally cancel them?  
That's the way the contracts are written with the contractors.  I am unsure of government or laws other than you can write contracts like that, however unusual.  You would think Trump wouldn't want that, but, maybe it has something to do with how the money was appropriated.

 
As a centrist democrat Im ready for a centrist party....  Give the democratic party to the AOCs and Bernie bros,  Give the Republican part to the tea partists and the Qanons....  and I would be happy to have a 3 party system joining the moderate repubs. ....  Im voting for Biden  this time though because Im not sure our constitution survives 4 more years of Trump.  The time to form a 3rd party/  support a legitimate 3rd party movement is after the election imo.....  There is just no time to do anything other than place a throw away vote for 3rd party at this point.  
Duopoly

Really summary/discussion from Freakonomics on the duopoly that is the two party system, how the middle gets screwed (fervent dems/reps decide the primaries; moderates have to then settle), and how difficult it is/stacked against to stand up a 3rd party.

 
Can I bite the bullet for some type of normalcy for 4 years? Can I trust he will serve all 4 years? That may be the biggest knock on a Biden vote for me, President Harris is not something I ever want.
A Donald win won’t bring “normalcy” , it’s out of his hands. I expect nothing less than pure petulance from the resistance 

Biden could serve 4 years but I’d guess part of it would be a weekend at Bernie’s for a year or two. Imo of course . 
 

Totally agree about Harris. Pete B would’ve been a hell of a pick

 

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