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The Great 2020 All Time Television Draft: The Simpsons is judged the greatest show of all time (4 Viewers)

mphtrilogy said:
@timschochet  quick clarification on what era a show falls in, is it the first year or the bulk of the years?  Friends for instance started in 1994 but ended in 2004 so spans two eras for the draft...
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The new breakdown is 1991-2020 so Friends is fine. 
But let’s say you choose a show that ran from 1984-1992. You get the whole series so long as you choose it in the 1971-1990 category where the majority of the episodes are. If you chose it in the 1991-2020 category you would only get the last two years. Hope that makes sense. 
In the rare instance where the episodes are close to evenly divided (for example, a show runs from 1987-1993) I suppose you could choose either category and get all episodes.  

 
mphtrilogy said:
@timschochet  quick clarification on what era a show falls in, is it the first year or the bulk of the years?  Friends for instance started in 1994 but ended in 2004 so spans two eras for the draft...
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I consider Friends a 90's show.

ETA, I see it doesn't matter as per recent changes.

 
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timschochet said:
jwb said:
Like our other drafts, no repeats either, right? Characters/shows appear once.

But what about show reboots 20-30 years later, with the same named characters but different actors? Is that ok? Let's make sure we're clear on this before starting.
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Of course. A show reboot is a different show. 
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Also related, should we make an exception for finale / theme song? (kind of like we did for soundtrack). Otherwise, these could be seriously watered down. 

 
Dumb question - TV mom/dad.   Is this best parent, most iconic, etc..        I can think of some memorable characters that were terrible moms and dads.  

 
Another dumb question:

Can one select a variety show that's heavy on comedy and put it in the comedy category?  

Yet another dumb question:

Does the 'drama' category include soap operas?

I'm presuming it includes police/law shows since they're primarily dramatic in nature, but some soaps are not as serious as others and don't fall into the comedy category either.

 
Charlie Steiner said:
Another dumb question:

Can one select a variety show that's heavy on comedy and put it in the comedy category?  

Yet another dumb question:

Does the 'drama' category include soap operas?

I'm presuming it includes police/law shows since they're primarily dramatic in nature, but some soaps are not as serious as others and don't fall into the comedy category either.
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I don’t like making rules on this stuff, if you want to stretch categories go for it. The judge may punish you but it’s not my call. 

 
timschochet said:
jwb said:
Also related, should we make an exception for finale / theme song? (kind of like we did for soundtrack). Otherwise, these could be seriously watered down. 
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What exception? I don’t understand. 
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He means that if a show is taken for, say, 1950-70 Drama, can its theme song also be selected in Theme Song? And can that same show's final episode be taken in Finale? I took for granted that those cases would be totally fine.

The only places where shows can't duplicate would be between "decades" categories and "genre" categories, right? For example, the same show can't be in 1950-70 Drama and also in Western, correct?

And apparently, there's no issue with actor/actress duplication since there's no actors being taken at all -- only characters. The only place duplicates have to be avoided with characters is among Hero, Villain, and the leading/supporting categories.

 
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Basically, a selection should be unique within these broad category groupings:
 

"SHOW" Categories
1950-1970 comedy
1950-1970 drama 
1971- 1990 comedy 
1971-1990 drama 
1991-2020 comedy 
1991-2020 drama 
Children’s show 
Animated Show
Variety or Live Show 
Science Fiction 
Mini Series 
Documentary 
Action 
Western 
Horror (Supernatural) 
Teen Show 
Reality Show 
Foreign Show 
Holiday Show 
Game Show 
 

"CHARACTER" Categories
1950-1970 leading man comedy 
1950-1970 leading man drama 
1950-1970 leading woman comedy 
1950-1970 leading woman drama 
1950-1970 supporting man 
1950- 1970 supporting woman 
1971-1990 leading man comedy 
1971-1990 leading man drama 
1971-1990 leading woman comedy  
1971-1990 leading woman drama  
1971-1990 supporting man  
1971-1990 supporting woman
1991-2020 leading man comedy 
1991-2020 leading man drama 
1991-2020 leading woman comedy 
1991-2020 leading woman drama 
1991-2020 supporting man
1991-2020 supporting woman 
TV Mom
TV Dad 
News Personality 
Sports Personality 
Sports Play by Play 
Talk Show Host 
Hero 
Villain 
 

"OTHER" Categories
Theme Song 
Finale 
Commercial 

 
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Do you want me to pick or are we still ironing things out? 

Also if I pick am I locked into the category I state during the pick?

 
So, if a show like Hee Haw, which was +90% comedy and -10% music, can it qualify for both categories or can it only be considered a variety show?

 
KarmaPolice said:
I will join in too, despite a lack of TV knowledge.  Looks like the order is already set, so I would be at the end?

@Ilov80s or @krista4  either of you lurkers have interest in teaming up?  
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I’ve watched almost no TV in 25 years so would be a terrible partner.  Available for generally useless consultation via PM, though.

 
Charlie Steiner said:
So, if a show like Hee Haw, which was +90% comedy and -10% music, can it qualify for both categories or can it only be considered a variety show?
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Tim may be reluctant to make a hard call here. So just one data point: Were I judging, say, the 1970-1990 Comedy category ... any skit-based variety show, no matter how funny, gets dropped straight to the bottom of the list.

 
Doug B said:
Tim may be reluctant to make a hard call here. So just one data point: Were I judging, say, the 1970-1990 Comedy category ... any skit-based variety show, no matter how funny, gets dropped straight to the bottom of the list.
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What about shows from other genres? Would a western-themed show from the 2000's also drop to the bottom because it should be in the Western category instead?

 
krista4 said:
I’ve watched almost no TV in 25 years so would be a terrible partner.  Available for generally useless consultation via PM, though.
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Might still pick your brain every now and then.   I mostly started watching stuff in the 90s, and even then it was crap like Saved By the Bell.  

 
Charlie Steiner said:
Doug B said:
Tim may be reluctant to make a hard call here. So just one data point: Were I judging, say, the 1970-1990 Comedy category ... any skit-based variety show, no matter how funny, gets dropped straight to the bottom of the list.
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What about shows from other genres? Would a western-themed show from the 2000's also drop to the bottom because it should be in the Western category instead?
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Nope -- to me, the case in red is a completely different situation.

Basically, I have a decision tree in my head that starts like so:

-> Is the show [scripted prime-time-type program] or [other]?

A show like Hee-Haw gets shunted out right there as an [other]. That doesn't happen with a Western-themed dramatic program.

 
Hov34 said:
Do you want me to pick or are we still ironing things out? 

Also if I pick am I locked into the category I state during the pick?
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@Hov34  - I think start if you have a pick.    

As far as the other question, in all other drafts we have been able to move picks.  ie moving a show from best of decades, to a genre, to foreign, whatever.  Some of the more specific genres I am not sure of and probably would want a clarification of:

IE - best finale.   If I take a show for finale, does that take if off the list to be drafted for comedy/drama, or is that something we can double up on.  @timschochet?

 
Here is my advice based on the movie draft results:

  1. Draft based on however you think it will be judged and then accept that the judging will be the exact opposite of however you thought it would be judged.
  2. You will be disappointed in how your picks are judged
  3. If you are serious about how the judging is done you will be unhappy
  4. This is for fun so don't worry about it the first three statements and enjoy the process of learning about stuff you didn't know about and being introduced to shows you haven't seen.




ETA:  There will be judges that will say if it was up to them your pick would have been #1 in the category but unfortunately your pick will finish last for some reason that is still not clear.  Hahhahaaha

 
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Gally said:
Here is my advice based on the movie draft results:

  1. Draft based on however you think it will be judged and then accept that the judging will be the exact opposite of however you thought it would be judged.
  2. You will be disappointed in how your picks are judged
  3. If you are serious about how the judging is done you will be unhappy
  4. This is for fun so don't worry about it the first three statements and enjoy the process of learning about stuff you didn't know about and being introduced to shows you haven't seen.
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In the end, this is why I decided to hop in.    I have become pretty jaded with TV lately despite everybody talking about how awesome all the shows are now.  If this gets me into and loving a couple shows I haven't tried yet, it's worth it - even if 1 through 3 frustrates me.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
I will join in too, despite a lack of TV knowledge.  Looks like the order is already set, so I would be at the end?

@Ilov80s or @krista4  either of you lurkers have interest in teaming up?  
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I’ll judge but don’t have time for any drafts now. I don’t have any free time with virtual school.

 
KarmaPolice said:
For sure.  I agree - if double ups aren't allowed for that specific category I think it will water down the others a bit.  
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Theme Song is the same as Score and it was allowed to be used even with the movie being taken so I would assume this is the same thing.

 
Gally said:
Because we are still at the overanalyze the rules phase of the draft.  That takes at least 3 or 4 days to work itself out. 
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It's good that we're doing this for a few things. Theme song, finale, etc. I want to see some of these go head to head in both best show and best finale. 

That said, I do agree with Tim in the "hey, if you think XYZ variety show is a greatest comedy, go for it, but be prepared for the judge to disagree". 

 
jwb said:
It's good that we're doing this for a few things. Theme song, finale, etc. I want to see some of these go head to head in both best show and best finale. 

That said, I do agree with Tim in the "hey, if you think XYZ variety show is a greatest comedy, go for it, but be prepared for the judge to disagree". 
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The bold should be the slogan for these drafts

 
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Gally said:
jwb said:
That said, I do agree with Tim in the "hey, if you think XYZ variety show is a greatest comedy, go for it, but be prepared for the judge to disagree". 
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The bold should be the slogan for these drafts
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I will never forget Fast Times at Ridgemont High being judged outside of the Top 5 in Teen Movies. After seeing that, nothing a judge does comes as a surprise.

 
Doug B said:
I will never forget Fast Times at Ridgemont High being judged outside of the Top 5 in Teen Movies. After seeing that, nothing a judge does comes as a surprise.
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Hey, but Slumdog Millionaire was top 5....

(How both Breakfast Club and Fast Times were not top 5 is amazing)

 
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jwb said:
Silly question Tim.  "Leading man" (etc) = character or actor? I'm assuming character, but you know with these things...
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timschochet said:
Character. 
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So the Category should actually say 19XX-19XX Lead Male Character in a Comedy?

ETA:  So you could actually pick Andy Griffith (Andy Griffith Show) as comedy character  and Ben Matlock (Matlock) for best detective so you are able to use the actor Andy Griffith in two different categories?

 
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so if you choose a TV mom/Dad is that same character eligible for lead or supporting woman or is that person off the board and have to be slotted for one category only? 

 
Doug B said:
He means that if a show is taken for, say, 1950-70 Drama, can its theme song also be selected in Theme Song? And can that same show's final episode be taken in Finale? I took for granted that those cases would be totally fine.

The only places where shows can't duplicate would be between "decades" categories and "genre" categories, right? For example, the same show can't be in 1950-70 Drama and also in Western, correct?

And apparently, there's no issue with actor/actress duplication since there's no actors being taken at all -- only characters. The only place duplicates have to be avoided with characters is among Hero, Villain, and the leading/supporting categories.
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This is 100% correct. 

 
KarmaPolice said:
@Hov34  - I think start if you have a pick.    

As far as the other question, in all other drafts we have been able to move picks.  ie moving a show from best of decades, to a genre, to foreign, whatever.  Some of the more specific genres I am not sure of and probably would want a clarification of:

IE - best finale.   If I take a show for finale, does that take if off the list to be drafted for comedy/drama, or is that something we can double up on.  @timschochet?
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Of course you can double up on finale. And theme song. 

 
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