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In ground pool guys.... (1 Viewer)

Beef Ravioli

Footballguy
House shopping, and the wife finds a house she really likes. It has an in ground pool. Never had a pool nor is it the reason she’s really interested in it. Question is, how much should I expect to pay maintaining it with general maintenance each year? 

 
It's been a long time since we had a pool but if you factor in chemicals,electricity, opening closing, cleaning water, time 3-4k pending on the size is my best guess 

*Haven't owned a pool in a long time

 
House shopping, and the wife finds a house she really likes. It has an in ground pool. Never had a pool nor is it the reason she’s really interested in it. Question is, how much should I expect to pay maintaining it with general maintenance each year? 
Where are you located in general?  North, South? Is it a gunite (concrete) pool with plaster or exposed aggregate walls? Vinyl liner? Fiberglass?

 
Don't do it unless you are in an area that is 100 degrees all summer.   They are a pain in the butt unless you like the work to keep them clean.  I would never have a pool again but I also don't plan to live in a hot area. 

 
They are a pain the the ###.  We had one in our old house.  When we moved in kids were 15 and 8.  They used if for the first 3 or so years alot, then sporadically until we the wife and I split and the new house me and the boys were moving into didn't have a pool.  Then they loved it.  Don't get me wrong.  Great for entertaining, sitting around, etc.  Just don't thin that we used it enough to justify the cost.  In our area you are looking at 150/month for turn key (cleaning and chems) and about $100 extra in water (texas due to evaporation during the summer), but that does not cover "break / fix", and something is always breaking (polaris, pipes leaking, new diving board, caulking, etc). 

If you have the disposable income, it is worth it.  I loved sitting around the pool watching the game, but at our new house we do the same.........only I look at a rock garden instead of a pool.

 
Located in northern Virginia, right outside DC. 
Viewing the house on Monday so I can tell you the other details about the liner or concrete et

edit to add: from pics it looks like concrete. Will confirm when I get the low down. 

 
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Located in northern Virginia, right outside DC. 
Viewing the house on Monday so I can tell you the other details about the liner or concrete et

edit to add: from pics it looks like concrete. Will confirm when I get the low down. 
Opening and closing pools for winter can be costly. It also depends on how much you want to do yourself. If you don't mind taking care of the leaves and balancing of the chemicals, you'll save a good bit. If you want someone to do it for you, then it's going to cost significantly more. 

You can always start with someone maintaining it and then learning to do it yourself so that can change. Depending on size and shape of the pool and proximity of trees, weekly maintenance and open/close could vary significantly. 

You also have to consider that you're going to want to heat your pool to keep it a comfortable temperature, especially during early spring or late fall if you have it open then. 

Low end, you're looking at probably $2K if you end up doing most stuff yourself when you consider electricity for pool pumps, heating, chemicals, open/close. That could easily triple if you get regular service and/or need repairs.

 
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Yeah but salt is cheaper to maintain on a yearly basis
Not if you amortize the cost of replacement cells over the life of the pool. I'm not opposed to using salt/chlorine generation systems.  They can work great but do require proper oversight and maintenance. The long term cost to run them correctly works out about the same as using bought chlorine if that is done correctly but few people do it correctly so that increases their expenses and makes people think salt is cheaper until they have to replace the anode/cathode cell.

 
Not if you amortize the cost of replacement cells over the life of the pool. I'm not opposed to using salt/chlorine generation systems.  They can work great but do require proper oversight and maintenance. The long term cost to run them correctly works out about the same as using bought chlorine if that is done correctly but few people do it correctly so that increases their expenses and makes people think salt is cheaper until they have to replace the anode/cathode cell.
Correct.

It's not that salt is easier maintenance.  It's just different.  The benefit is truly the decreased harshness of highly chlorinated water. 

 
In Louisiana with a vinyl liner pool.  I spend $300-400 annually on chemicals (chlorine pool).  I do everything myself.  Liner costs about 4k installed and you need a new one every 5-7 years.  I spend bout 30-45 minutes per week maintaining.  It's important to have a Dolphin or other robot cleaner. It cuts back considerably on the amount of time you spend. They run about 2k and last 5 or so years.  I can't believe some people spend 1500 or more on chemicals, but that's what I hear.  It's not that difficult.

 
Correct.

It's not that salt is easier maintenance.  It's just different.  The benefit is truly the decreased harshness of highly chlorinated water. 
Nope.  The chlorine levels should be maintained the same whether it is generated at the pool from salt or bought at a pool store or derived from household bleach.  All chlorine originates from salt and is produces with electrolysis. And the chlorine level in the pool water does not change depending on the source of the chlorine. Either one can be "highly" or "not highly" chlorinated.

Now, salt added to the water may make the water feel better.  But you can add salt to the pool water whether you are using it to generate chlorine or buying chlorine elsewhere.  

 
Had in ground salt water pool installed March 2019 -   no regrets.

Working from home every day the pool has been awesome. I floated more than I walked this summer.

Now everyone wants a pool - waiting list is almost up to 2 years long now.

Also bought the cleaning bot for about $1500 - worth every penny.

 
Located in northern Virginia, right outside DC. 
Viewing the house on Monday so I can tell you the other details about the liner or concrete et

edit to add: from pics it looks like concrete. Will confirm when I get the low down. 
That is a bit of a toss-up on months of use.  Would be good to talk to some other people that have them down there.  We are going year 24 with an in-ground vinyl-lined pool.  There are times it has been a giant PIA.  Things did help when we went to the salt generator - easier maintenance, less cost, and no longer got the skin "itchies" from the chemicals.  

We closed the pool the first couple of years - expensive and hated the look.  Now we just leave the circulator on year round and keep the pool open (in Little Rock, Arkansas) ...it can get pretty cold here for a month or two.  

If you have younger kids - they'll love it.  

 
Nope.  The chlorine levels should be maintained the same whether it is generated at the pool from salt or bought at a pool store or derived from household bleach.  All chlorine originates from salt and is produces with electrolysis. And the chlorine level in the pool water does not change depending on the source of the chlorine. Either one can be "highly" or "not highly" chlorinated.

Now, salt added to the water may make the water feel better.  But you can add salt to the pool water whether you are using it to generate chlorine or buying chlorine elsewhere.  
I'm sorry, but I don't know where you are getting this from. Do any search for salt chlorine generators and one of the main benefits listed everytime is avoiding the harshness of chemical chlorine and other chemicals.  I could literally post 10 links out of the first 10 searches that will show that. 

We actually converted our pool from a standard chlorine pool to a salt cell generator and it is night and day. No smell, no irritated skin, no red eyes, nothing. 

 
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Located in northern Virginia, right outside DC. 
Viewing the house on Monday so I can tell you the other details about the liner or concrete et

edit to add: from pics it looks like concrete. Will confirm when I get the low down. 
I have a concrete pool (chlorine and electric heater) about 90 miles north of you. Here's what it has cost me to maintain each year since putting it in new:

  • Chemicals ~$300/year
  • Electricity bill increase May - Oct (pump and heater) ~$450/year
  • Water bill increase May - Oct ~$400/year
  • Opening/closing supplies (to perform myself) ~$125/year
  • In year 10, replaced coping, tile and fixed concrete pool deck due to needed maintenance $10,000
I probably have another 3, maybe 5 years, before I need to have the concrete/gunite pool resurfaced, which will probably be about $5,000. So it's not the "normal" year to year costs that get you, it's the major things that will inevitably come up and cost the most. 

 
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I'm sorry, but I don't know where you are getting this from. Do any search for salt chlorine generators and one the main benefits listed everytime is avoiding the harshness of chemical chlorine and other chemicals.  I could literally post 10 links out of the first 10 searches that will show that. 

We actually converted our pool from a standard chlorine pool to a salt cell generator and it is night and day. No smell, no irritated skin, no red eyes, nothing. 
Yeah my buddy switched his pool over and said it's the best thing he ever did. No burning no smell. Every couple weeks he drops done salt in and that's about it

 
I'm sorry, but I don't know where you are getting this from. Do any search for salt chlorine generators and one of the main benefits listed everytime is avoiding the harshness of chemical chlorine and other chemicals.  I could literally post 10 links out of the first 10 searches that will show that. 

We actually converted our pool from a standard chlorine pool to a salt cell generator and it is night and day. No smell, no irritated skin, no red eyes, nothing. 
Science.  It isn't a debate.

 
Pool Guy here.

I live in the desert.  know nothing about winterizing pools.  Besides that.  fire away and I will answer anything I know.

 
Yeah but salt is cheaper to maintain on a yearly basis
Kinda.  The ph goes up with salt, so you need to add Muriatic acid often, which is fairly expensive.  you also have to buy a new system every 5? years or so.

 
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I'm sorry, but I don't know where you are getting this from. Do any search for salt chlorine generators and one of the main benefits listed everytime is avoiding the harshness of chemical chlorine and other chemicals.  I could literally post 10 links out of the first 10 searches that will show that. 

We actually converted our pool from a standard chlorine pool to a salt cell generator and it is night and day. No smell, no irritated skin, no red eyes, nothing. 
You probably had too high chlorine levels before.  Salt pools make chlorine gas, you still have a chlorine pool.  That being said, my wife swears she can tell the difference and likes how it feels on her skin better.

 
Yeah my buddy switched his pool over and said it's the best thing he ever did. No burning no smell. Every couple weeks he drops done salt in and that's about it
The salt level should stay consistent for the generator to work properly.  he shouldn't be adding salt unless the level drops to below what is recommended.

salt doesn't evaporate.  only splash out removes it (or backwash).  stop him from adding unless the levels drop below what is recommended.  otherwise the level will get too high and it will stop working.

 
Exchanged chlorine is at least as expensive as liquid chlorine.  There's no free lunch.  Having a pool that could do either I went with liquid.

The biggest mistake pool owners make is to shock exclusively with Tri-Chor and Bi-Chlor which ends up spiking the stabilizer level, higher stabilizer means you need more free chlorine and this becomes a vicious cycle until you have a pool of chloramines (which is the smell). 

Exchanged chlorine reduces the need for shock because it provides a more constant exchange of chlorine.  This helps.  You also need to add a lot of acid back to the pool, but exchanged pool owners have figured out that swimmers prefer a PH up to 7.8, rather than the 7.566 level that has been in the books for ages.  

It comes down to your available time, if you can check and treat 2-3x a week then exchanged makes less sense.  If you absolutely hate messing with your pool then having an exchanger makes some sense, but expect the cost to be somewhere in the range of having a home service for liquid.

 
The salt level should stay consistent for the generator to work properly.  he shouldn't be adding salt unless the level drops to below what is recommended.

salt doesn't evaporate.  only splash out removes it (or backwash).  stop him from adding unless the levels drop below what is recommended.  otherwise the level will get too high and it will stop working.
He's had it for years, I think he knows what he's doing. He doesn't just randomly throw salt in it

 
Exchanged chlorine is at least as expensive as liquid chlorine.  There's no free lunch.  Having a pool that could do either I went with liquid.

The biggest mistake pool owners make is to shock exclusively with Tri-Chor and Bi-Chlor which ends up spiking the stabilizer level, higher stabilizer means you need more free chlorine and this becomes a vicious cycle until you have a pool of chloramines (which is the smell). 

Exchanged chlorine reduces the need for shock because it provides a more constant exchange of chlorine.  This helps.  You also need to add a lot of acid back to the pool, but exchanged pool owners have figured out that swimmers prefer a PH up to 7.8, rather than the 7.566 level that has been in the books for ages.  

It comes down to your available time, if you can check and treat 2-3x a week then exchanged makes less sense.  If you absolutely hate messing with your pool then having an exchanger makes some sense, but expect the cost to be somewhere in the range of having a home service for liquid.
When we had our pool installed it came with a chlorine cartridge system that we used for the first season. The second season we had the heat pump installed and I had them take out the chlorine system when running the new pipes for the heat pump and I switched to the BBB method (bleach, borax, baking soda.) I got a TF-100 test kit (with refills as needed) and spend 5 minutes each day checking the levels and using an app to make any adjustments.

Family and guests always can't believe how clear and "not chemically" the pool is, and I've had people that have salt water pools assume that's what they are swimming in. But, as pointed out a few times, getting the best results (for any method) will only come if you're putting in the necessary time for everything from the needed tasks to educating yourself thoroughly on the ins and outs of what you're doing. 

 
The Noid said:
When we had our pool installed it came with a chlorine cartridge system that we used for the first season. The second season we had the heat pump installed and I had them take out the chlorine system when running the new pipes for the heat pump and I switched to the BBB method (bleach, borax, baking soda.) I got a TF-100 test kit (with refills as needed) and spend 5 minutes each day checking the levels and using an app to make any adjustments.

Family and guests always can't believe how clear and "not chemically" the pool is, and I've had people that have salt water pools assume that's what they are swimming in. But, as pointed out a few times, getting the best results (for any method) will only come if you're putting in the necessary time for everything from the needed tasks to educating yourself thoroughly on the ins and outs of what you're doing. 
Bingo. This guy gets it.

 
culdeus said:
Exchanged chlorine is at least as expensive as liquid chlorine.  There's no free lunch.  Having a pool that could do either I went with liquid.

The biggest mistake pool owners make is to shock exclusively with Tri-Chor and Bi-Chlor which ends up spiking the stabilizer level, higher stabilizer means you need more free chlorine and this becomes a vicious cycle until you have a pool of chloramines (which is the smell). 

Exchanged chlorine reduces the need for shock because it provides a more constant exchange of chlorine.  This helps.  You also need to add a lot of acid back to the pool, but exchanged pool owners have figured out that swimmers prefer a PH up to 7.8, rather than the 7.566 level that has been in the books for ages.  

It comes down to your available time, if you can check and treat 2-3x a week then exchanged makes less sense.  If you absolutely hate messing with your pool then having an exchanger makes some sense, but expect the cost to be somewhere in the range of having a home service for liquid.
You've managed to invent a bunch of new terms here but generally correct.

 
You've managed to invent a bunch of new terms here but generally correct.
This is more or less what the poolschool at troublefreepool teaches.  That the issue with traditional chemistry is lack of understanding of the conditioner that rides along in the pucks and shock bags is what ultimately makes them horrible to even be around much less swim in.  

The profit margin on conditioned shock is super high, so here we are.  

 
Ok, since we are talking pools, let's see if you guys can help me solve an issue.  Pool has been behaving for about two years, no algae outbreaks and no other issues in general. We took a direct hit from Hurricane Laura and were without power for two weeks, plus an unbelievable amount of vegetative debris got in the pool.  I had a major green algae outbreak while the power was out and it took about six weeks to get it cleared and looking nice again.  Then we got hit with Delta.  No power for three more days and again, a lot of tree limbs, leaves etc. in the pool.  Not as difficult a time getting it back nice, but for some strange reason, I can't get it to hold chlorine.  Stabilizer was low, so I bought some and raised it to normal, thinking that would solve the problem. Nope. I thought maybe my reagent was old and wasn't giving me a good reading, so I bought the strips.  Basically no chlorine showing up.  Meanwhile, the pool looks fine.  No cloudiness, no algae, it looks great.  But the chlorine levels are not there.  I plan to leave it alone unless I get an outbreak of something. Maybe I'll drain it over the winter and start with a fresh batch of tap water. Any ideas from you experts?

 
Ok, since we are talking pools, let's see if you guys can help me solve an issue.  Pool has been behaving for about two years, no algae outbreaks and no other issues in general. We took a direct hit from Hurricane Laura and were without power for two weeks, plus an unbelievable amount of vegetative debris got in the pool.  I had a major green algae outbreak while the power was out and it took about six weeks to get it cleared and looking nice again.  Then we got hit with Delta.  No power for three more days and again, a lot of tree limbs, leaves etc. in the pool.  Not as difficult a time getting it back nice, but for some strange reason, I can't get it to hold chlorine.  Stabilizer was low, so I bought some and raised it to normal, thinking that would solve the problem. Nope. I thought maybe my reagent was old and wasn't giving me a good reading, so I bought the strips.  Basically no chlorine showing up.  Meanwhile, the pool looks fine.  No cloudiness, no algae, it looks great.  But the chlorine levels are not there.  I plan to leave it alone unless I get an outbreak of something. Maybe I'll drain it over the winter and start with a fresh batch of tap water. Any ideas from you experts?
Do you use the DPD powder to test?  That is the gold standard. What's the ph doing?  

My guess is I had to guess is you didn't fully get rid of the algae and it's there just enough to tie up your FC level.  That or switch to DPD to get a true reading.

 
This is more or less what the poolschool at troublefreepool teaches.  That the issue with traditional chemistry is lack of understanding of the conditioner that rides along in the pucks and shock bags is what ultimately makes them horrible to even be around much less swim in.  

The profit margin on conditioned shock is super high, so here we are.  
troublefreepool.com is the best place to learn how to properly care for a residential pool. No question. They have no hidden agendas, just facts.

 
Do you use the DPD powder to test?  That is the gold standard. What's the ph doing?  

My guess is I had to guess is you didn't fully get rid of the algae and it's there just enough to tie up your FC level.  That or switch to DPD to get a true reading.
I have never used DPD powder.  What are the advantages?  I have suspected that the algae outbreak never fully cleared, but I have shocked it repeatedly (18 pounds) and used three bottles of algicide. There is nothing visible.

PH is a little low, but that's not unusual.

 
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I have never used DPD powder.  What are the advantages?  I have suspected that the algae outbreak never fully cleared, but I have shocked it repeatedly (18 pounds) and used three bottles of algicide. There is nothing visible.

PH is a little low, but that's not unusual.
What kind of shock? Dichlor, trichlor, and cal-hypo are all sold as powdered shock. Dichor and trichlor contain cyanuric acid at roughly 50% by volume which will build up in you rpool overtime and suppress the chlorine from sanitizing among other problems.

pH a little low is not a problem for algae control.  The algaecides are most likely a waste of money.  DPD powder has better range, is more accurate, is easier to see the endpoint (titration vs. colorimetric) and most importantly distinguishes between total chlorine and free chlorine.  If you are using the yellow reagent (OTO) it only tests total chlorine and that includes combined  chlorine which isn't helping sanitize. you need to know free chlorine.

Start using unscented bleach from the grocery store to shock with instead of powder if you are using dichlor or trichlor. You'll need to add more than you think to get rid of a nascent algae bloom.  And go visit troublefreepool.com!

 

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