IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
If your goal is to elect people who are 100% dependent on career staffers and lobbyists, only to turn them out as soon as they get some idea of what they're doing, term limits are a fantastic idea.
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How do we fix American politics? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CR69
- Start date
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I'm for term limits (I think I was the first to bring it up in here) but yes, 6 years seems too little. I'm more thinking folks like McConnell, Pelosi or even Bernie.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Lots of good ideas, especially getting money out of politics. The problem is that any fixes to our corrupt, broken system have to be made using our corrupt, broken system.
How do you get career politicians to impose term limits on themselves? How do you get them to support campaign finance reform when they're the ones benefiting from the way things are? How do you revisit Citizens United when the Supreme Court has become partisan? How do you establish a viable third party when the other two control access to the process?
I don't have answers for those questions.
How do you get career politicians to impose term limits on themselves? How do you get them to support campaign finance reform when they're the ones benefiting from the way things are? How do you revisit Citizens United when the Supreme Court has become partisan? How do you establish a viable third party when the other two control access to the process?
I don't have answers for those questions.
JAA
Footballguy
JAA
Footballguy
I understand your position, but I do not think it would play out like you think it would. I believe the career staffers would develop a "reputation" for being helpful or subservient to lobbyists. I believe the bad ones, who weren't working in service to the country, would be rooted out pretty quickly.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Incumbents love campaign finance reform, because it benefits incumbents. That's why they passed McCain-Feingold in the first place.
You probably don't. Citizens United was a fairly straightforward first amendment case. It was rightly decided and isn't getting overturned in our lifetimes, barring a constitutional amendment.
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Mr. Know-It-All
Footballguy
Automatic execution of any representatives once they hit 65. Make it like a televised Running Man type show with all proceeds going to infrastructure. Water all crops with Mountain Dew. Im sure I will think of more good ideas given time.
CR69
Footballguy
I agree with the term limits and highly regulating the lobbying industry.
I think for real change though we need to get past this is vs them. I think most of us really want the same thing at the end of the day though we may agree on how to get there. But the MSM and social media has turned politics into something that is somehow tied very closely to a lot of people's identities. I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican (registered independent) but before that and before even being an American, I'm a human. I want safety, security and prosperity for everyone. I think most of us do. How do we unite around that?
I think for real change though we need to get past this is vs them. I think most of us really want the same thing at the end of the day though we may agree on how to get there. But the MSM and social media has turned politics into something that is somehow tied very closely to a lot of people's identities. I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican (registered independent) but before that and before even being an American, I'm a human. I want safety, security and prosperity for everyone. I think most of us do. How do we unite around that?
sho nuff
Footballguy
Ive seen posts that the parties gave us these two candidates...I disagree. We gave them to us...we as Americans voted for them in primaries and elevated them.
Fixing the system now will take time and will such in ways as well...we need real change starting with money as many have said...money controls too much of it all.
And it will take more than words from people but actions. Lobbying not by groups buy by the people.
Fixing the system now will take time and will such in ways as well...we need real change starting with money as many have said...money controls too much of it all.
And it will take more than words from people but actions. Lobbying not by groups buy by the people.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Take a three year average of a politician's salary, that's all that person can earn per year in their lifetime.
If you are a professional politician for 10 years and your average salary is 200K, then for the rest of your life, you can only earn 200K or less. If you make over that, the over amount will be donated to a children's charity. Your direct children and spouse are placed under those same limitations. The exchange is all that salary is now completely untaxed if you spend at least 10 years in office. This is the tradeoff for public service.
In order to run for office of any kind, you must first spend 5 years full time in some kind of public service. Teacher, firefighter, assistant DA, cop, nurse, doctor, military, Public Service Corps ( to be created), etc, etc. If you have children, they are immediately drafted into public service or military during your term of office. If they are not of adult age, they are required to give that service when they do become of age.
Professional politicians must undergo a full health and psychological/cognitive battery every year and release all financial information to the public for their entire lifespan. They must continue to release it after political retirement.
Fraud while holding public office is now a capital offense. You will be executed and your direct family stripped of citizenship and deported.
Pre-election there will be one government website where all candidates list their policy positions and must answer 20 questions presented by other candidates. You must give Yes/No answers and explain your position. If you are going to pack the SCOTUS, you need to say Yes or No. If you are going to attempt to repeal Roe V Wade, you need to say Yes/No.
All media outlets will give ONE HOUR each night to each POTUS candidate on alternating days at no cost for a four month span during election years. From 10-11PM given respective time zones. This will be a broadcast requirement on all stations everywhere. For a 100 day stretch, each candidate will discuss a specific state and it's political issues and appeal to those voters. No other political campaign on TV is allowed period.
Mayors of any city must live in the poorest rated area of said city. Governors must live in the poorest city in their state. Their children must go to the worst rated schools in those areas. You want your kids to have better and you to live better? Clean up our state and city.
The United States will remove all foreign aid period until it removes it's economic deficit.
American companies must produce/manufacture at least 50 percent their products in America. Any company wishing to do business completely outside the US and relocate will be charged a perpetual 95 percent annual exit tax.
Any company who does business with a foreign entity directly related to crimes against humanity will face a perpetual 95 percent annual tax.
In order to qualify for Medicare and Social Security, you MUST vote in every election cycle. A new "null" vote will be created for those who unhappy with both candidates. All voting will be ID'ed and in person. Mail in ballots will only apply for the military.
The list of capital offenses grows with a new "Speed System" Convicted child molesters are executed. Major financial criminals ( like a Madoff) are executed. Career criminals are executed. Looters from protests/rioting are executed. Sentence carried out in three months. Anyone here have a problem with someone who rapes an innocent child getting hanged in the town square? I didn't think so.
Caesar
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
Free airtime on networks. Limited and same amount to both parties.
Set a limit on advertising. Whatever. 5 mil. 10 mil. Only the candidate funds can pay for ads. No pacs.
Not sure how to handle the social media problem however.
Set a limit on advertising. Whatever. 5 mil. 10 mil. Only the candidate funds can pay for ads. No pacs.
Not sure how to handle the social media problem however.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
This would require a constitutional amendment so it will never happen, but I agree that would be great.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I suspect this type of limitation on advertising and airtime would create at least one severe, negative, unintended consequence. Specifically, I think it would lead to an advantage for candidates who are already famous for reasons unrelated to politics. For instance, Lebron James would receive a significant advantage in such a system. Granted, he would have a name recognition advantage anyway, but this would exacerbate the issue. I could envision people voting for reality TV stars or former college football coaches purely based on name recognition, and I suspect that would lead to bad outcomes.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
"Take a three year average ( highest earning block) of a politician's salary, that's all that person can earn per year in their lifetime after taking office.
If you are a professional politician for 10 years and your average salary is 200K, then for the rest of your life, you can only earn 200K or less. If you make over that, the over amount will be donated to a children's charity. Your direct children and spouse are placed under those same limitations. The exchange is all that salary is now completely untaxed if you spend at least 10 years in office. This is the trade off for public service.
In order to run for office of any kind, you must first spend 5 years full time in some kind of public service. Teacher, firefighter, assistant DA, cop, nurse, doctor, military, Public Service Corps ( to be created), etc, etc. If you have children, they are immediately drafted into public service or military during your term of office. If they are not of adult age, they are required to give that service when they do become of age."
***
My suggestion could handle a LeBron James. He's fine to use his NBA celebrity, but he'd have to give five full years of full time public service like becoming a teacher, cop, etc. before he could run. The financial limits would deter many high earning celebrities from wanting to enter politics. Bronny James would also need to be conscripted into the military or public service - If you lead, it should be mandatory that your children should serve the greater American community.
supermike80
Footballguy
Very true. But in this society are presidential candidates really unknown?
Another consequence would be the CNNs and Fox News media outlets giving specific candidates more "news coverage" to prop up their selections. Also bad.
Ok so my idea stinks too.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
I like James as a BB player but lets be real. James is basically what the Dems call "The uneducated" as he never attended college and only had about a 2.5 gpa in HS. James is a BB player by trade.
One on one in a debate is a little different than one on one on a BB court. He would get exposed very fast. As many actors or athletes would. I mean actors can look like they are great doctors on TV, yet I would not let anyone on Greys Anatomy perform surgery on me.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Why would it matter about debates or being exposed? Tommy Tuberville just won office and his comments seemingly show him clueless about how government even works at all.
Trump's debates have shown you can just lie but do it confidently and it does not matter much what you say...but how you say it and having a big enough personality. Trump did not get to POTUS because of his immense knowledge of government or much of anything. He is there because he was already famous. A non-famous person with his background and talking like he does and how he did thing would have never had a shot of coming close to the Oval...hell, non-famous people that would speak like him would have a tough time making it into local office much less national. Big names sell. and nobody cares about debates unfortunately. Presidential debates barely move the needle...any other office and nobody watches or cares.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
i agree, I guess you are right. That is why we ended up Trump vs Biden for POTUS when those 2 geezers are probably the least capable.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Also true...Biden didn't win the nomination because he was better than the other Dem candidates IMO...I think his name being known was definitely a huge part in that.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
This is something I've thought about for years, and all the typical answers seem to have obvious failings.
- Limit political donations. This results in huge advantages for the wealthy, who can spend their own money.
- Limit total spending. This results in huge advantages for people with name recognition, especially in lower profile races (think state legislature as opposed to POTUS). It also results in outsize influence attributed to outside forces not bound by the spending limits (e.g. the local town newspaper or TV station).
- "Remove outside money"; basically the same as "limit political donations".
- Remove corporate money. I'm not sure how preventing "Tesla" from donating to a campaign is substantially effective if "Elon Musk" can still donate.
- Ban lobbying. I'm not sure how this works in practice. I can by e-mail a candidate and present a policy argument. I can separately make a campaign donation. Is that lobbying?
- Term limits. This is the only item so far that, to me, seems to at least remove a direct incentive for politicians to act in ways that benefit themselves (i.e. get reelected) as opposed to acting for the benefit of their constituents. However, there is something to be said for experience being helpful in a role. I'm better at my job today than I was three years ago. Also, are term limits really effective if a given person spends, for sake of example/argument, 4 years as a state rep, then 6 years as a state senator, then 6 years as a House Rep, then 12 years as a Senator?
Unfortunately, in my opinion, the real problem with politics isn't that "some politicians are bad", it's that voters elect some bad politicians. The root of the problem is the voters. How do we fix that? Frankly, in my opinion, some people have no business voting. In my opinion, anyone that believes QAnon conspiracies isn't qualified to vote. But, how could one reasonably exclude the unqualified? A social studies test of the basics of government? Won't work, as parties will simply find their preferred voters and give them the answers to memorize ("executive, legislative, judicial", or "Person, woman, man, camera, TV"). IQ test?
- Limit political donations. This results in huge advantages for the wealthy, who can spend their own money.
- Limit total spending. This results in huge advantages for people with name recognition, especially in lower profile races (think state legislature as opposed to POTUS). It also results in outsize influence attributed to outside forces not bound by the spending limits (e.g. the local town newspaper or TV station).
- "Remove outside money"; basically the same as "limit political donations".
- Remove corporate money. I'm not sure how preventing "Tesla" from donating to a campaign is substantially effective if "Elon Musk" can still donate.
- Ban lobbying. I'm not sure how this works in practice. I can by e-mail a candidate and present a policy argument. I can separately make a campaign donation. Is that lobbying?
- Term limits. This is the only item so far that, to me, seems to at least remove a direct incentive for politicians to act in ways that benefit themselves (i.e. get reelected) as opposed to acting for the benefit of their constituents. However, there is something to be said for experience being helpful in a role. I'm better at my job today than I was three years ago. Also, are term limits really effective if a given person spends, for sake of example/argument, 4 years as a state rep, then 6 years as a state senator, then 6 years as a House Rep, then 12 years as a Senator?
Unfortunately, in my opinion, the real problem with politics isn't that "some politicians are bad", it's that voters elect some bad politicians. The root of the problem is the voters. How do we fix that? Frankly, in my opinion, some people have no business voting. In my opinion, anyone that believes QAnon conspiracies isn't qualified to vote. But, how could one reasonably exclude the unqualified? A social studies test of the basics of government? Won't work, as parties will simply find their preferred voters and give them the answers to memorize ("executive, legislative, judicial", or "Person, woman, man, camera, TV"). IQ test?
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Rich Conway
Footballguy
Milkman
Footballguy
They are killing it right now. With no end in sight. They own the government and can make all the rules to benefit them.Manster said:
They literally have half the population screaming start your own business if you don't like working for a corporation.
Don't see this train turning around in my life time.
JAA
Footballguy
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Very good conversation. The kind I generally miss about this forum. That said, I'll stand by my answer that neither would help in a meaningful way. I agree with MT that Citizen's United was rightly decided. There may be a path to "get money out of politics", but I generally believe that all such paths would have unintended consequences leading to even more money, or simply different money, or perhaps other undue influence (e.g. if no one can advertise, then media becomes much more influential) "in politics".
If we are purely discussing how to fix the money in political campaigns issue, my immediate thought is instant and full public reporting on all political spending. No more "shadow money" spent for ads, where you don't know who spent the money. You donate $10 to Bernie Sanders, it goes to a public website searchable by all US citizens You donate $10B to a campaign, same thing.
Milkman
Footballguy
Yeah. That's why I've tried to just disengage from politics for the most part. This Trump act has pulled me back in but I won't be here for long. It's just not something I have any power over so why worry about it. America certainly could be worse......
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Biden won the nom because South Carolina is a fairly conservative state and the voters there didn't like the other candidates. Oh and everyone knew he could beat Trump but there were suspicions that none of the others could do so. He was the safest pick to end this nightmare.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
My question is how is it done in other democracies? Are there massive ad blitzes on English TV and Facebook to pull the lever for the Lib Dems or Torries or UKIP in a general election? What about PSOE or Podemos in Spain? I wasn't living there for a general election, but i think they are strict limits on party and leader advertising.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Sure. But its hard to deny knowing him and him being Obamas vP was a huge part of that.
Im also tired of SC having so much power in the primary when they will just vote R in the general anyway.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Biden got the ticket because he was the best fundraising option that could be controlled and the original pick, Kamala Harris, was promptly run over and destroyed by Tulsi Gabbard.
But this can't ever be talked about in the MSM since Tulsi Gabbard is now "She Who Cannot Be Named" since she would have easily won this election with full DNC support and some adjustments and held it in 2024.
Because why would Americans support a young beautiful minority woman, a combat veteran, who could handle the press, have a modern understanding of the younger generation while still relate to the DNC dinosaurs, and was intelligent, measured and reasonable? I mean they could have the oldest sitting first term President in US history who clearly has cognitive issues/dementia, was accused of using his position as Vice President as a personal ATM to benefit foreign interests and authored the Crime Bill that imprisoned countless minorities/opposed busing/lied about marching in the face of the most woke/social justice saturated time in American history?
This is the exact moment where you double down and tell us all that Crash should have won Best Picture with no controversy and New Coke was actually a secret success but no one really understood it's life changing impact and fanny packs are going to come back in style and sweep the American fashion industry for the next few decades.
Let's watch it again, Gabbard crushing Harris. ( Even CNN couldn't hide it, and they are the unofficial unpaid marketing arm of the DNC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4fjA0K2EeE
But only after Harris called Biden a racist ( and previously said the sexual assault claims against him were valid) only to later backtrack on both to get on the ticket. Look at the unintentional comedy of Biden, author of the Crime Bill, gutting Harris on her record against minorities in her role as Attorney General only to backtrack to put her on the ticket.
I NEVER hear Tulsi Gabbard's name in this forum. NEVER. It's the hardened liberal's voodoo boogeyman story. Look at her ferocity and strength. Too bad she couldn't be controlled and Pelosi had to literally blacklist her openly from future debates.
Do you wear your fanny back to the front? Or the back? Would you consider it the new mullet for the waistline?
JAA
Footballguy
GordonGekko
Footballguy
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2020-10-07/katie-hill-movie-staffer-tweets-elisabeth-moss
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Hill_(politician)
Katie Hill’s alleged former staffers call out film project starring Elisabeth Moss
Former Rep. Katie Hill is being called out by alleged former staffers over a forthcoming film based on her memoir.
By Nardine Saad
Oct. 7, 2020
Alleged former staffers who claim to have worked for former California Congresswoman Katie Hill took over her inactive government Twitter account late Tuesday to denounce plans to make a film about the workplace abuse scandal that led to Hill’s resignation last year.
Hill claims that her old account, which she hasn’t used since she stepped down, was hacked.
Identifying themselves as “Katie’s former staff,” the anonymous commenters wrote a series of tweets explaining why they were “disappointed in so many folks” involved in the project. That includes the film project’s star, Elisabeth Moss, and screenwriter Michael Seitzman, who are coproducing with their respective production companies and Blumhouse Television an adaptation of Hill’s memoir, “She Will Rise: Becoming a Warrior in the Battle for True Equality.”
“This is an incredibly sensitive situation,” the alleged staffers tweeted Tuesday. “We appreciate the instinct to defend our former boss, an LGBTQ+ woman who faced abuse from her husband. What happened to Katie Hill shouldn’t happen to anyone. But, this moment requires more nuance, as Katie Hill’s story — our story — is also one of workplace abuse and harassment.”
The Democrat from Santa Clarita, who is openly bisexual, previously served California’s 25th Congressional District after unseating a Republican incumbent in the 2018 midterm elections.
However, the rising star of the Democratic party officially resigned in early November 2019 after a right-wing blog accused her of having an improper sexual relationship with a male congressional staffer — a violation of House ethics rules — compounded by the publication of explicit photos of Hill with a female campaign staffer.
Hill denied the affair with the male staffer but later admitted to having an inappropriate relationship with the female campaign staffer. She also said the explicit photos had been “weaponized” by her husband and political operatives.
Hill then wrote a memoir, and her seat was later flipped back to a Republican in a runoff election....
No one should have to put themselves in harm’s way for the public to understand a simple truth: Katie Hill is not a hero for women. We deserve heroes who embody our values even in the most difficult moments.
— Rep. Katie Hill (@RepKatieHill) October 7, 2020
Tuesday’s staffer tweets attempted to dispute the heroic portrait the streaming-film project paints of Hill, instead describing her as “both a victim and perpetrator.” The verified government Twitter account had remained inactive since Hill announced her resignation in the House of Representatives nearly a year ago. It is still unclear who wrote the missives.
“No one should have to put themselves in harm’s way for the public to understand a simple truth: Katie Hill is not a hero for women. We deserve heroes who embody our values even in the most difficult moments,” the tweets said.
The alleged staffers added that Hill has not been investigated by the House Ethics Committee nor “held accountable by anyone other than herself,” encouraging people “to reflect deeply before taking her word at face value.”
.....
Representatives for Blumhouse declined to comment on the tweets. Reps for Moss and Seitzman did not immediately respond to The Times’ requests for comment.
According to a statement given to the Hollywood Reporter, Hill said she wrote “She Will Rise” to take back her story “from those who have exploited and twisted it.”
In the same THR story, Moss said: “Her strength and work to amplify women’s voices is incredibly inspiring to me and her experiences could not be more important for us to magnify right now.”
*****
This should tell you everything you need to know about how broken American politics are right now. Katie Hill cheated on her husband, broke Congressional guidelines and damaged her party ( CA 25 HOR seat flipped to Republican Mike Garcia ) and she got "rewarded" with a book deal and movie deal that will paint her as some kind of hero. I won't link the photos but one has a purported "Nazi" tattoo on her. The political system is broken when you can screw up this badly and be socially and financially rewarded for it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Hill_(politician)
Katie Hill’s alleged former staffers call out film project starring Elisabeth Moss
Former Rep. Katie Hill is being called out by alleged former staffers over a forthcoming film based on her memoir.
By Nardine Saad
Oct. 7, 2020
Alleged former staffers who claim to have worked for former California Congresswoman Katie Hill took over her inactive government Twitter account late Tuesday to denounce plans to make a film about the workplace abuse scandal that led to Hill’s resignation last year.
Hill claims that her old account, which she hasn’t used since she stepped down, was hacked.
Identifying themselves as “Katie’s former staff,” the anonymous commenters wrote a series of tweets explaining why they were “disappointed in so many folks” involved in the project. That includes the film project’s star, Elisabeth Moss, and screenwriter Michael Seitzman, who are coproducing with their respective production companies and Blumhouse Television an adaptation of Hill’s memoir, “She Will Rise: Becoming a Warrior in the Battle for True Equality.”
“This is an incredibly sensitive situation,” the alleged staffers tweeted Tuesday. “We appreciate the instinct to defend our former boss, an LGBTQ+ woman who faced abuse from her husband. What happened to Katie Hill shouldn’t happen to anyone. But, this moment requires more nuance, as Katie Hill’s story — our story — is also one of workplace abuse and harassment.”
The Democrat from Santa Clarita, who is openly bisexual, previously served California’s 25th Congressional District after unseating a Republican incumbent in the 2018 midterm elections.
However, the rising star of the Democratic party officially resigned in early November 2019 after a right-wing blog accused her of having an improper sexual relationship with a male congressional staffer — a violation of House ethics rules — compounded by the publication of explicit photos of Hill with a female campaign staffer.
Hill denied the affair with the male staffer but later admitted to having an inappropriate relationship with the female campaign staffer. She also said the explicit photos had been “weaponized” by her husband and political operatives.
Hill then wrote a memoir, and her seat was later flipped back to a Republican in a runoff election....
No one should have to put themselves in harm’s way for the public to understand a simple truth: Katie Hill is not a hero for women. We deserve heroes who embody our values even in the most difficult moments.
— Rep. Katie Hill (@RepKatieHill) October 7, 2020
Tuesday’s staffer tweets attempted to dispute the heroic portrait the streaming-film project paints of Hill, instead describing her as “both a victim and perpetrator.” The verified government Twitter account had remained inactive since Hill announced her resignation in the House of Representatives nearly a year ago. It is still unclear who wrote the missives.
“No one should have to put themselves in harm’s way for the public to understand a simple truth: Katie Hill is not a hero for women. We deserve heroes who embody our values even in the most difficult moments,” the tweets said.
The alleged staffers added that Hill has not been investigated by the House Ethics Committee nor “held accountable by anyone other than herself,” encouraging people “to reflect deeply before taking her word at face value.”
.....
Representatives for Blumhouse declined to comment on the tweets. Reps for Moss and Seitzman did not immediately respond to The Times’ requests for comment.
According to a statement given to the Hollywood Reporter, Hill said she wrote “She Will Rise” to take back her story “from those who have exploited and twisted it.”
In the same THR story, Moss said: “Her strength and work to amplify women’s voices is incredibly inspiring to me and her experiences could not be more important for us to magnify right now.”
*****
This should tell you everything you need to know about how broken American politics are right now. Katie Hill cheated on her husband, broke Congressional guidelines and damaged her party ( CA 25 HOR seat flipped to Republican Mike Garcia ) and she got "rewarded" with a book deal and movie deal that will paint her as some kind of hero. I won't link the photos but one has a purported "Nazi" tattoo on her. The political system is broken when you can screw up this badly and be socially and financially rewarded for it.
