GordonGekko
Footballguy
I didn’t mean that it would be damning to conservatives. I meant that it will be damning in the general election.
“Social outrage is power protecting itself; it is not morality.”
― Andrea Dworkin
I didn’t mean that it would be damning to conservatives. I meant that it will be damning in the general election.
I don't know much about Crenshaw other than the SNL stuff which I thought he handled well. (and Davidson handled terribly with the later backpedalling.) But assuming all the other stuff needed works, I can see someone like him being a guy Republicans could rally around.What the RNC needs to do is find someone who will retain Trump's core base, still appeal to the older white Christian gunowner legacy crowd, be able to survive the open cancel culture and be seen as a moderate compared to Trump's trolling/attacking style. (Trump's age and his potential legal troubles in the near future become bigger factors here. )There's only one guy who can fit all these requirements now.
That's Dan Crenshaw.
No current DNC contender can beat Crenshaw, besides Oprah Winfrey and she won't run. Buttigieg being a gay man versus a gay woman will sink him nationally. No one wants to say it out loud but it's there. Cuomo is accused of essentially sentencing people to death in those nursing homes and wrote a tone deaf victory lap book that will haunt the DNC optics badly. AOC has a massive platform but won't survive the debate cycle and her policies will terrify even those within her own Party. Biden/Harris won for being "Not Trump" and that legacy doesn't have longevity. Newsom has the most financial backing, from Aunt Pelosi, and thus is the actual frontrunner for the DNC in 2024. He's run California into the ground and the optics are horrible. Then that would be three cycles in a row of lackluster apathy inducing candidates ( Clinton, Biden, Newsom)
It will be interesting to see. On one hand I feel like if Trump smoothed out some of his rough edges he would have won a second term but on the other hand I feel those rough edges are what a lot of Trump supporters liked about him.I don't know much about Crenshaw other than the SNL stuff which I thought he handled well. (and Davidson handled terribly with the later backpedalling.) But assuming all the other stuff needed works, I can see someone like him being a guy Republicans could rally around.
I do think Trump showed that there's a definite desire for the alpha angle. A guy like Crenshaw seems a lot different than a Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio or Mitt Romney. A "more reasonable tough guy" might be an appealing option. But again, I say all that knowing next to nothing about Crenshaw. I'm talking more in general.
Agreed. It's a delicate balance for sure.It will be interesting to see. On one hand I feel like if Trump smoothed out some of his rough edges he would have won a second term but on the other hand I feel those rough edges are what a lot of Trump supporters liked about him.
A lot to be said for this. At the end of the day though, tough talk only goes so far. Twitter wars with the media and the dems doesn't improve our lives one bit. There was a Trump Fatigue for sure.It will be interesting to see. On one hand I feel like if Trump smoothed out some of his rough edges he would have won a second term but on the other hand I feel those rough edges are what a lot of Trump supporters liked about him.
I started a thread here about one and half years into his presidency comparing it to Carter fatigue. I think both were and are real and cost them each the election. The media narrative was lousy because they couldn't handle the self-reflection in the public maelstrom that is the presidency.A lot to be said for this. At the end of the day though, tough talk only goes so far. Twitter wars with the media and the dems doesn't improve our lives one bit. There was a Trump Fatigue for sure.
I wasn't around for Carter, and i don't recall your thread. Can you give a synopsis of Carter fatigue?Carter fatigue
Then you've forgotten his widely cracked speech about American energy consumption and his public demeanor during the Iran hostage crisis.I have heard many discuss how people got tired of Donald Trump’s shtick. The exaggeration, his braggadocious personality, the pathological lying, the narcissism. I am old enough to remember Carter’s Presidency which was certainly flawed but I had no issue with his personality.
Yes, that's true. He was/is a good man. Few people would have you believe otherwise. But his demeanor during the second energy crisis and his demeanor of sort of aloofness about the Iran hostage crisis led people to think he wasn't a very good leader. Perhaps it was the events that led to Carter fatigue, but the media narrative (and I am beholden to that -- I was a youngster in 1980) was that people had had enough of Carter's sort of doom and gloom protectionist nanny statism and preferred Reagan's vision of a "shining city on a hill." Instead of seeing a wasteful, decadent society and conveying that notion, Reagan saw and gave hope for people who saw America's potential for greatness. Which man's vision was right, and the fruition from that vision is debatable whether it is good or bad, but at the time, people had had enough of Carter. It was a big electoral victory, much like Biden's.lazyike said:The Iran hostage crisIs was poorly handled by Carter but It had more to do with incompetence than a personality issue IMO. I never supported Carter but he was/is a good man
To be perfectly honest, I love Trump's shtick, as you put it. I like having a President who acts a little cocky, because let's face it, America is a little cocky!lazyike said:I have heard many discuss how people got tired of Donald Trump’s shtick. The exaggeration, his braggadocious personality, the pathological lying, the narcissism. I am old enough to remember Carter’s Presidency which was certainly flawed but I had no issue with his personality.
He was a much better post-president than president.lazyike said:The Iran hostage crisIs was poorly handled by Carter but It had more to do with incompetence than a personality issue IMO. I never supported Carter but he was/is a good man
A lot of people don’t mind a little cockiness , when it’s deserved. To try to claim he did a fantastic job with this pandemic is like last weeks a Denver QB claiming he made a lot of nice passes against the Saints. And most people don’t like pathological liarsTo be perfectly honest, I love Trump's shtick, as you put it. I like having a President who acts a little cocky, because let's face it, America is a little cocky!
I'm not worried about the Republican party at all. Republicans did just fine in the 2020 elections, maybe even a bit better than expected. Trump certainly did.
She just introduced a bill to ban abortions of pain-receptive babies. Would love to see her switch to the R side (she's pretty much there anyway).The damning issue is the DNC won this election, but at the staggering cost of possibly the 16 year stretch starting in 2024. Their savior was Tulsi Gabbard and they canceled her like a piece of used toilet paper. The lefty MSM won't even acknowledge she exists anymore. All Crenshaw/Haley have to do is promise Gabbard whatever she wants to run as an independent and she will fracture the Democratic voter base that will already naturally split between AOC/The Squad/Bernie Sanders and Pelosi/Newsom/Old Guard Dinosaurs.
Tulsi Gabbard was the candidate the DNC didn't deserve. And they'll have to pay for it for a long time.
After reading On the Wings of Eagles my opinion of Carter got even worse due to his handling of the fall of the Shah, if that's possible. And my opinion of Ross Perot is through the roof.The Iran hostage crisIs was poorly handled by Carter but It had more to do with incompetence than a personality issue IMO. I never supported Carter but he was/is a good man
Parties are not forward thinking. That is why the POTUS, senate and house always flip flop. When whoever is in control the opposition seems to have more power going forward.Certainly, a well run and forward thinking party would have primaried Trump this year. And a well run and forward thinking party would have run away from Trump these 3 1/2 years. But they have been his ball washers even up until the election two days from now. After Trump loses, will the party go the direction of Romney/Kasich or run into the arms of Don Jr or one of the other horrible children? I give them absolutely no credit in doing the right or smart thing and agree with you the party will fracture into two.
She gets a F from the NRA, supports free college for those making under 125/yr. and wants a lot of Wall Street reform - those were just the first couple of things I found doing some searching. The idea that she's pretty much a Republican seems rather far-fetched to me. Granted it worked for Trump so maybe it will work for her too.She just introduced a bill to ban abortions of pain-receptive babies. Would love to see her switch to the R side (she's pretty much there anyway).
Haley/Gabbard 2024
Yep - she's not in lock step with the orthodoxy. One of the reasons I like her. I don't like everything she thinks, but I respect her willingness to develop beliefs that show she's thought through these issues thoroughly.She gets a F from the NRA, supports free college for those making under 125/yr. and wants a lot of Wall Street reform - those were just the first couple of things I found doing some searching. The idea that she's pretty much a Republican seems rather far-fetched to me. Granted it worked for Trump so maybe it will work for her too.
Then she'll never survive in the partySand said:Yep - she's not in lock step with the orthodoxy. One of the reasons I like her. I don't like everything she thinks, but I respect her willingness to develop beliefs that show she's thought through these issues thoroughly.
Also the reason I like Yang - I disagree with just about everything he believes in, but you have to hand it to a guy who literally put *everything* out there on his site as far as positions go. Huge props, there.
Probably true, but I'll go on the record as saying a Haley/Gabbard ticket would be good for about 95% of the male US vote.Then she'll never survive in the party
I don't think Trumpism will be stronger under Biden than it was under Trump, but I'm not 100% certain. Christianity didn't really take off until after Jesus made his departure, after all.Trumpism is just starting and will grow stronger under a President Biden/Harris
ok??Probably true, but I'll go on the record as saying a Haley/Gabbard ticket would be good for about 95% of the male US vote.
Trump's political career will be very dead. Now Trumpism will live on I suspect.Some of yall in here are weird and obsessive. "Trumpism" is dead the second he leaves office.
This can’t be real. If it is the GOP is truly fractured. This would not bode well for 2022.The Arizona Republican Party has proposed a resolution to censure Cindy McCain.
Among the reasons cited by the party? "past drug abuse" and "condemning the President for criticizing her husband".
https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1348043697204596736
I thought he was using “vote” as a euphemism for genitalia?ok??
i've done that. "Rock the vote!" was my opening line backinadayI thought he was using “vote” as a euphemism for genitalia?
Excellent analogy.I don't think Trumpism will be stronger under Biden than it was under Trump, but I'm not 100% certain. Christianity didn't really take off until after Jesus made his departure, after all.
Not really, JMHO. Unless you want to ignore that it took centuries of hiding and a far more appealing doctrine.Excellent analogy.
what is more appealing than unfettered selfishness and always being right no matter the evidence?!Not really, JMHO. Unless you want to ignore that it took centuries of hiding and a far more appealing doctrine.
Unfortunately, voter suppression tactics delayed me from stuffing the ballot box for yearsi've done that. "Rock the vote!" was my opening line backinaday
Those people aren't going anywhere. If the Republican party ceases to exist, then the authoritarian/nationalist types will just join a different party.
That's the idea.Those people aren't going anywhere. If the Republican party ceases to exist, then we'll the authoritarian/nationalist types will just join a different party.
Damn I hope soThose people aren't going anywhere. If the Republican party ceases to exist, then we'll the authoritarian/nationalist types will just join a different party.
Don't underestimate the number of independents and disaffected Democrats who will join them.Damn I hope soThose people aren't going anywhere. If the Republican party ceases to exist, then the authoritarian/nationalist types will just join a different party.
If they are for nationalism and authoritarianism, then damn I hope so.Don't underestimate the number of independents and disaffected Democrats who will join them.
By having members like AOC, Talib, Omar, Warren, Sanders, Hirono already in the Democrat Party - and that contingent grows larger every election - they already are for authoritarianism and nationalism.If they are for nationalism and authoritarianism, then damn I hope so.
I don’t think it’s accurate to claim that the people you name are nationalists. But would I mind to see some of them leave the Democratic Party? I would not.By having members like AOC, Talib, Omar, Warren, Sanders, Hirono already in the Democrat Party - and that contingent grows larger every election - they already are for authoritarianism and nationalism.
Stop pretending this is on "right side only" ideology. Communism/Marxism/Socialism are all kissing cousins and they ALL have components of Nationalism (Every see a NK or Russian military parade?) and Authoritarianism (100+ million people dead and counting from in the 20th century alone).
The current GOP is CLEARLY pushing authoritarianism and nationalism as a PRIMARY ELEMENT of its party.By having members like AOC, Talib, Omar, Warren, Sanders, Hirono already in the Democrat Party - and that contingent grows larger every election - they already are for authoritarianism and nationalism.
Stop pretending this is a "right side only" ideology. Communism/Marxism/Socialism are all kissing cousins and they ALL have components of Nationalism (Ever see a NK or Russian military parade?) and Authoritarianism (100+ million people dead and counting from in 20th century alone [Stalin, Mao, PolPot, etc...]).
As per the bolded red above: I disagree 10000%. This is made up nonsense for dramatic purposes only.The current GOP is CLEARLY pushing authoritarianism and nationalism as a PRIMARY ELEMENT of its party.
The socialists on the left (who BTW would be mainstream liberals in literally any other 1st world country) are a minority element of the DNC. Their party nominated and elected a boring centrist career politician w/out any personal gravitas.
Let’s stop with the both sides can we?
See this is the problem, I’m not a democrat or a liberal in any sense of the word. You think that there’s two sides and everybody falls into those categories. Partisans presume what other people believe based on one or two clues like it’s some sort of Yankees versus Red Sox rivalry game or something.As per the bolded red above: I disagree 10000%. This is made up nonsense for dramatic purposes only.
I stated in my previous post that THAT contingent grows larger every year. By purposefully minimizing it you're attempting to fool people into thinking it isn't an issue. I've stated repeatedly how ignoring it now is going to be to your detriment. It's already a problem in the Democrat Party and it's only going to get worse.
Cleanup you side of the house first and then worry about everyone else's side.
I whole-heartedly disagree with your assertions above about the Republican Party, especially the "white-nationalism" part. However, I agree with your right to express it.See this is the problem, I’m not a democrat or a liberal in any sense of the word. You think that there’s two sides and everybody falls into those categories. Partisans presume what other people believe based on one or two clues like it’s some sort of Yankees versus Red Sox rivalry game or something.
It’s incredibly hard to take you seriously if you don’t see the authoritarian tendencies. Majority of house GOP members literally joined a lawsuit to overturn the results of an election with no real evidence of fraud. There were 60+ court cases all but one of which were lost by the Trump campaign, appeals to state judges some of them were appointed by Trump himself and literally no reason to object to the vote other than Trump wanted them to.
I’m sorry but this both sides stuff is just intellectually lazy at a time like this. I would love a real conservative party that got rid of the anti-democratic personality worship stuff and the winking nod to white nationalism. I voted for more Republican presidential candidate for the Democratic in my lifetime and honestly eight years ago I couldn’t imagine voting for a Democrat for national office.
I don’t believe that ‘Republicans are all white nationalists.’ But they’ve courted them. Kinda impossible to not see that.I whole-heartedly disagree with your assertions above about the Republican Party, especially the "white-nationalism" part. However, I agree with your right to express it.
heartily agree with your first statement, disagree as strongly with your 2nd and applaud your 3rd.The current GOP is CLEARLY pushing authoritarianism and nationalism as a PRIMARY ELEMENT of its party.
The socialists on the left (who BTW would be mainstream liberals in literally any other 1st world country) are a minority element of the DNC. Their party nominated and elected a boring centrist career politician w/out any personal gravitas.
Let’s stop with the both sides can we?
We both know that isn't going to happen.The current GOP is CLEARLY pushing authoritarianism and nationalism as a PRIMARY ELEMENT of its party.
The socialists on the left (who BTW would be mainstream liberals in literally any other 1st world country) are a minority element of the DNC. Their party nominated and elected a boring centrist career politician w/out any personal gravitas.
Let’s stop with the both sides can we?
Appreciate your thoughts. And @BladeRunner as well.heartily agree with your first statement, disagree as strongly with your 2nd and applaud your 3rd.
if the money and what little machine there is left in the Democratic Party wasnt squarely in the center, this would be Bernie's/AOC's party already. i believe the polling has it about 2/3 avowed leftist.
as one of the most leftist people on this board, that should please me, but it doesnt. i'd like my outlook to be represented as the majority opinion once in my life, but these arent the people to carry my water. they believe in redress over progress; inclusion over excellence; what's correct more than what's right. dont want Human Resources running my company OR my country.
i'm too old to see the America i wanted and old enough not to want to suffer its inevitable crash, so i'll hop aboard the train of the first person to sensibly advance a methodology for a togetherness platform, no matter their politics.