BoltBacker
Footballguy
While it's not a link I think you might enjoy watching Season 1, Episode 3 in the Netflix series "Dirty Money". The name of that episode was entitled, "Drug Short".timschochet said:
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Does the amazing speed in which the Covid vaccine was developed (9 months) make a case that Big Pharma is a good thing? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
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BoltBacker
Footballguy
FINALLY, the "trickle down healthcare" that we've all been waiting for!timschochet said:
AAABatteries
Footballguy
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BassNBrew
Footballguy
@timschochet Glad you started this thread. This was something I was thinking about the last couple of days.
As a anti-Big Pharma person, this development does give me pause. Also as someone who has been closely following the stock market and researching these companies lately, they aren't making that much money. Maybe these stupid high drug prices are needed.
As a anti-Big Pharma person, this development does give me pause. Also as someone who has been closely following the stock market and researching these companies lately, they aren't making that much money. Maybe these stupid high drug prices are needed.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Pretty sure pharmaceutical companies are among the most profitable in the US, and they certainly make the most money within the healthcare sector.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Returning to the original question, don't China and Russia both claim to be ahead of the US in the process of development and distribution of a vaccine? Yes, I'm aware that those claims cannot necessarily be trusted, but if we assume they are true for sake of argument, is that not an indicator that the current structure of "Big Pharma" is not necessarily optimal or required as the fastest way to get to a vaccine?
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Hmmm...Not into business stuff, but there are quite a few Pharma companies on the Fortune 500, and pharmaceuticals are consistently listed among the most profitable industries.
Top 20 industry, with net profit 18.3%
Fortune 500 graph
BassNBrew
Footballguy
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Honestly trying to understand it myself. Maybe it's just a lack of growth in revenue. MRK, PFE, BMY and been stuck in the mud for decades. Natural population growth alone should be increasing revenue though.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
LOL. No idea why it turned into a pay link. Pharma was #14 industry according to profit margin @18.3%.Bet they aren't as profitable as Statista
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
I don’t know, but between highly paid CEOs, pharmaceutical reps, extensive advertising and exorbitant drug prices, there’s plenty of evidence it’s a lucrative industry.
Dolly Parton gave a cool million to Moderna. Here's a tribute to her philanthropy using Jolene:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ryancordell/status/1328540517332885507
https://mobile.twitter.com/ryancordell/status/1328540517332885507
timschochet
Footballguy
I assume their statements are NOT true. But we’ll find out eventually just how true they are. You’re correct that if they were true I’d likely have to reassess my thinking on this.
The Commish
Footballguy
China was pushing out vaccines while the "trials" were going on and they stopped when things went wrong in Brazil...at least this is what my buddy living in southern China has told us. On a side note, life in China, for them, is pretty much back to normal. Some people wear masks all the time when in public, so they don't go away completely, but they seem to be back at that phase of life. Weird huh?
China is poised to deliver large quantities of COVID vaccine to much of the world. I don't completely trust their data, but remember that over a billion Chinese are in line to receive a made in China vaccine.
The USA and the West are using more advanced technology to make the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines, which come with advantages (production), but disadvantages (storage, possibly unknown risks).
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/6311228002
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-11-16/u-s-china-and-the-covid-19-vaccine-race
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
China also did a much better job than the U.S. at containing spread in the first place, which makes a case that authoritarian communism is a good thing.
BnB, big pharma has never returned much to the shareholder. See PFE over the last 2 decades.
Though, more importantly, your last statement is worth comment. The US currently has a system where it refuses to negotiate drug prices with pharma. As a result, US drug prices are insanely higher than abroad, where they do. In effect, the US subsidizes the world in pharma. The US pays to develop and validate drugs and then foots almost all that cost while the rest of the world reaps the benefits.
In a perfect world (i.e. lock up the lobbyists for a few years) the US would enact law that Medicare, Medicaid, the Indian health systems, and the VA will use a drug price that's the average of what is charged to Canada, the EU, Australia, Japan, China, Russia, and whomever else makes a splash in this market. Then delay the law a few years to give big Pharma the opportunity to renegotiate with all those countries. That way we have a system that still rewards the research, but doesn't place all the burden on US consumers and govt. Watch US drug prices drop substantially.
It drives me nuts to the extent that we are being taken advantage of (our own doing due the the ACA, for the most part). We don't have to kill the golden goose to keep innovation here, we just need to level the playing field.
Now we have three really good reasons to love that gal.
(In all seriousness, by all accounts, she's one heck of a human being. This isn't her first foray into really good philanthropy.)
The Russian and Chinese vaccines should give everyone due to take it pause. Their truncated testing regimens are very sketchy (certainly Russia).
As we've found out with Norway's vaccine fiasco from not too long ago, these things need proper vetting. I don't think Russia and China did nearly enough there.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Most of what you wrote is correct, but has nothing to do with the ACA. The same drug-pricing system was in place long before the ACA.
Very true, but it was one of the last things that was changed to make the ACA palatable, if memory serves.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
BladeRunner
Footballguy
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Shula-holic
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
No, but the research its based on was funded by government grants for a decade or so
sho nuff
Footballguy
That and the doses cost that to produce now. But coming up with it costs far more per dose.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
The General
Footballguy
-jb-
Footballguy
FairWarning
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
I think the last part was a bit of hyperbole on FG's part? Maybe not? Either way, there is no question that China basically stopped this thing in it's tracks. They were essentially back to "normal" in December/Early Jan. My friends have been allowed back to their normal lives and maskless for months now. Of course, the Chinese government continues to have very rigid rules about who can come into the country and who can leave, but within it's borders they are back to every day living. I don't know that this event makes a good argument "for communism" but it does show what that form of government can do and allow in situations like this. It also clearly illustrates what can happen to COVID when a group of people is actually locked down.....like really locked down.
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