NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
If you're trying to imply there's only one other Trump bashing thread, then I'm afraid you may be a little confused because I seem to recall a few around here.
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President Trump deserves credit for... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Here is the historic graph. US has bounced around the line. We're on track to fall 9% this year - well under the line.
China will be higher. The Accord is going swimmingly.
timschochet
Footballguy
I want to address this: first off I don’t care about appearing to be fair; I want to BE fair. Being balanced is a different thing entirely. There is usually a contradiction between being fair and being balanced and this is particularly true in the case of Donald Trump. Overall Trump has been so much worse than any other modern President that’s it’s impossible to maintain a balanced approach. The purpose of this thread, at least as far as I’m concerned, is to seek a few specks of light on a plane of darkness.
The Commish
Footballguy
We are....we WERE on target, until we pulled out and started ignoring it...funny how it takes so long to get to standard, but can quickly switch back when the standard is removed
timschochet
Footballguy
I kind of look at it as similar to my attempts to lose weight: if I am careful, eat healthy, and watch my portion size, I can lose a couple of pounds a week, and this can go on for months. But if I stray off this routine it all comes back very quickly.We are....we WERE on target, until we pulled out and started ignoring it...funny how it takes so long to get to standard, but can quickly switch back when the standard is removed
whoknew
Footballguy
Saw this in the Trump HQ thread. Good reminder that we still have 2 months to go.
Israeli military preparing for possible US strike on Iran
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Yes if our enemies can just hold out two more months then they can all breathe easy for 4 years.
The Commish
Footballguy
He's talking about this thread where we tried to give
for things he did...went well for a bit, but then it just ended up being a thread where people came in to give props for words he said and the next day (sometimes same day) come back to retract it after his actions were the opposite. I think most just gave up.
whoknew
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I give him credit when in February our troops got hit by a missle strike and he didn't retaliate/escalate.
I also give him credit for removing as many troops as he can before leaving office and removing the war hawks in the Pentagon who want unending wars so they can get ribbons and cushy military industrial complex kickbacks/jobs once they retire.
FairWarning
Footballguy
An outsider can make it if they are surrounded by a good staff. The outsider also has to listen to them and not pick fights on social media. Trump did make it much harder for an outsider to win again (Cuban?).
Personally I'm appalled by the handling of Biden with kids gloves, not that he deserves worse at this time. I just hate the power of big media dictating what is and isn't news, squashing opposing opinions. and the steering of your ideas into their agenda. Just look how COVID is covered by the media - its all the red states fault.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Well the media is never going to attack Biden and be relentless with him. Jim Acosta will be totally different and won`t always interrupt Biden. I can`t see Acosta calling Biden out and hammering him on anything and if he does it will be in a much kinder manner.
It is just the way it is and you can already see it. The way the dynamics have already changed is really quite interesting. After Biden speaks CNN and MSNBC hosts are gushing and fawning at whatever he says. We are not going to get the hate anymore from people like Lemon and Maddow and that is a good thing as it was tiresome.
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FairWarning
Footballguy
It was very tiresome. What is also tiresome is the fighting between both sides. Trump was a clown on a lot of things, but it was obvious from day 1 that the left wasn’t going to work with him. I still cannot believe this is how Trump runs a corporation.
BoerumHill
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I’m a little bit surprised by this assertion. It may be that the left would never have worked with Donald Trump, I wouldn’t put that past them, but the problem is I have trouble coming up with any examples in which they had the chance to do so in the first place. There was talk of a DACA deal, and for a moment it sounded like the Democrats would approve funding on the wall in exchange for DACA, but at the last second Trump shut down all negotiations and it was never discussed again. There was a LOT of talk about infrastructure, but that’s all it was: Trump never made a formal proposal and neither did any Republicans and they tabled all proposals by the Democrats. Trump talked throughout his term about a replacement for Obamacare but never offered one.
And those non-examples are the closest I can think of. If you can come up with something in which he sought cooperation from the left but did not receive it, I’d love to know.
The Commish
Footballguy
FairWarning
Footballguy
Not exactly the art of the deal...
It does take two sides to make a deal. People don't really care if the HOR rep from Maryland doesn't want to work with him. At the end of the day, it all falls on Trump, he HAS to make it happen. Tweeting every petty gripe doesn't make people want to work with you.
sho nuff
Footballguy
There were multiple times Democrats left meetings with a deal even...a deal which was then “rescinded “ after people (Miller I believe) got in Trump’s ear. Then Pelosi and Schumer get a call from someone else to now claim there was no deal.
BoerumHill
Footballguy
President Trump, from Day One, always viewed the Opposition Party as the enemy. He spoke only to his base. He never courted anyone outside his own party. He views everything in life as being a zero sum, transactional negotiation.
That is by definition someone who is going to be extremely hard to work with, bc his starting point is “this is how big the pie is; it doesn’t get bigger or smaller, there are no other pies coming out of the oven, and I know how much pie I need. can you get me that size pie, or even better, a larger piece? no I’m not worried about your slice. what, you think I’m a sucker?”
Wouldnt know compromise if it slapped him up the side of his rather large head.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Tough to work with a Party that specifically said it was going to "get Trump" before he even took office. I know you guys like to gloss over that part, but in reality, "reaching out" should happen from BOTH sides, not just one. The Democrats proactively refused to reach out and work with Trump. In fact, they made it their #1 goal.BoerumHill said:
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5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
I've thought this over. Here's what I came up with....
- "Saving Big 10 Football."
- "Saving Big 10 Football."
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Thunderlips
Footballguy
My take on that is to the undecided or middle voter....prove yourself the better leader by reaching out first. I do think that most people (not just Conservatives) have this weird idea in regards to leaders that they should be unyielding, uncompromising and never make the first move towards compromise or negotiation.
I think that Trump could have very much changed his simply by constantly being the person who A) took the high road with the Left and B) was the one who pushed for compromise. He didn't.
Has a middle of the road guy..... I'm less interested in the Conan "CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES! SEE THEM DRIVEN BEFORE YOU, AN HEAR THE LAMENTATIONS OF THEIR WOMEN" theory of working together and more interested in the Tyrion " We make peace with our enemies, not our friends." theory.....particularly since we're all the same citizenry.
TripItUp
Footballguy
1. Foreign Policy - arguably the best foreign policy of our lifetime
2. Economic Prosperity/Restoring middle Class - again, arguably the best President of our lifetime, record unemployment
3. Trade Agreements - renegotiating or getting rid of harmful trade agreements
4. Immigration Control - stemming the tide of politically harmful immigration
Accomplished more in 4 years than Obama in 8 IMHO, and it isn't particularly close.
2. Economic Prosperity/Restoring middle Class - again, arguably the best President of our lifetime, record unemployment
3. Trade Agreements - renegotiating or getting rid of harmful trade agreements
4. Immigration Control - stemming the tide of politically harmful immigration
Accomplished more in 4 years than Obama in 8 IMHO, and it isn't particularly close.
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BoerumHill
Footballguy
JAA
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I really have trouble with this one. I have tried and tried and tried again to understand the differences between the New NAFTA and the old one, or what tariffs on China have gained for us. I don’t get it; perhaps you can explain.
TripItUp
Footballguy
JAA
Footballguy
caustic
Footballguy
Plenty of people thought we were at or near full employment in 2017, but Trump wanted to run the economy hot and it worked out well. IMO this wasn't because of some deep economic insight on the part of the GOP -- Trump wanted his numbers to look good and Republicans never met a tax cut they didn't like -- but the results were undeniably positive, the tightest labor market since the 90s. Even though that's come to a grinding halt with COVID, it provided a blueprint for future administrations. The incoming Biden folks have already indicated that they'll be taking a similar run-it-hot approach.
The Commish
Footballguy
um....what? "Repeal and Replace Obamacare" was one of the most consistent, specific messages he had
It's the only thing he offered up at all that resembled an actual policy position. The rest was "we need better trade deals" (vague). We need to stand up to China (vague). Immigration was probably the second most clear with "we need to keep them out".
TripItUp
Footballguy
People didn't really vote for Trump because of his healthcare "plan". Didn't feel like it was important to me.um....what? "Repeal and Replace Obamacare" was one of the most consistent, specific messages he had
It's the only thing he offered up at all that resembled an actual policy position. The rest was "we need better trade deals" (vague). We need to stand up to China (vague). Immigration was probably the second most clear with "we need to keep them out".
The Commish
Footballguy
Ok....thats not close to what you said in the post i responded to and this post doesnt change the fact that his healthcare comments are the closest to actual policy talk we ever heard out of him.
TripItUp
Footballguy
True, to be honest you reminded me...I knew Trump would do nothing about healthcare so I personally just blocked it out. My expectations were super low on that front.Ok....thats not close to what you said in the post i responded to and this post doesnt change the fact that his healthcare comments are the closest to actual policy talk we ever heard out of him.
The Commish
Footballguy
Id have settled for nothing over what we got. Just shows that things can always get worse
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Yeah, he proved the deficit doesn't matter anymore. Until there's a Dem in power, and then it matters again.
TripItUp
Footballguy
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BoltBacker
Footballguy
To be fair "Repeal and Replace" doesn't really mean anything if you never offer up a "replace" plan in the first place. It just goes under the heading, "everything will just be BETTER!!!".um....what? "Repeal and Replace Obamacare" was one of the most consistent, specific messages he had
It's the only thing he offered up at all that resembled an actual policy position. The rest was "we need better trade deals" (vague). We need to stand up to China (vague). Immigration was probably the second most clear with "we need to keep them out".
Forcing Mexico to pay for a wall across the southern border of the country was a pretty concrete promise though.
SlaX
Footballguy
I thought for sure in January that we were going to war with Iran. I'm happy that it didn't turn out that way.
timschochet
Footballguy
Well, besides the fact that I almost never agree with Jim Cramer, you really didn’t answer my question. What is the difference between the old NAFTA deal and the new one?
The Commish
Footballguy
I wonder if Cramer knows the "new" China deal is an agreement to get back to the trade levels we had before Trump took office
He basically dug a big whole and the agreement was they would fill it back in together and if we look at the fine print, I'm willing to bet China agreed to play the role of the guy standing to the side holding a shovel watching the OTHER guy fill the hole in. I didn't even know Cramer dipped his toe in politics...he shouldn't. He doesn't seem very good at it if this article is any indication of his overall prowess.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
My rates went down (slightly) and I now have a choice to opt out if I want without being fined. Guess it depends on your perspective.
The Commish
Footballguy
Sure....would you say you're situation is the norm or the exception? But regardless, they weren't going to be able to collect the "fine" if you did your taxes correctly.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
I'm in the 8-10% that people don't give and flying frack about. I'm all for socialized medicine and taking away the tax benefit most of you are getting and taking away your choice of doctors that most of you have. I'm not thinking the politicians will be able to convince people that they want this.
It's hard to do your taxes correctly as if you miss 1099 employee with your estimates, the penalties and interest are steep.
The Commish
Footballguy
understood....it's only a problem if you get a "refund" though....and I am absolutely for the medicine being detached from my employment. I'm absolutely confident I could do better than what I have if left to my own devices.
timschochet
Footballguy
I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday who I hadn't seen in a couple of years. He sells machine parts to different manufacturers on the west coast. He told me that while he thought Trump was a nutcase, the guy removed a bunch of restrictions that made my friends business take off until Covid. He said that 2018 and 2019 were the biggest boom years of his life. So he voted for Trump for that reason.
I would never have voted for Trump myself, but this seems like a reasonable point of view.
I would never have voted for Trump myself, but this seems like a reasonable point of view.
Lomez
Footballguy
Dairy. "The worst trade deal ever negotiated." He left it largely the same, except for dairy.
Something negligible like 25,000 new auto jobs over 5 years.
Some monitoring of the Mexican job market, some penalties for noncompliance (which you always have to watch those Canadians for), and a little goosing for u.s. tech companies.
So, yeah, we basically got dairy exports out of it.
He's my buddy Tim. Goes to Mexico, haggles with the guys walking the beach selling stuff, and comes away with 2 pairs of Orkleys for $30 instead of the $20 they were selling for and has a deal he can brag about making.
I give you all the credit you're due, Monty Hall.
Something negligible like 25,000 new auto jobs over 5 years.
Some monitoring of the Mexican job market, some penalties for noncompliance (which you always have to watch those Canadians for), and a little goosing for u.s. tech companies.
So, yeah, we basically got dairy exports out of it.
He's my buddy Tim. Goes to Mexico, haggles with the guys walking the beach selling stuff, and comes away with 2 pairs of Orkleys for $30 instead of the $20 they were selling for and has a deal he can brag about making.
I give you all the credit you're due, Monty Hall.
