What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Cato June - new stud LB (1 Viewer)

Big Daddy Kane

Footballguy
LINK

Posted on Tue, Aug. 10, 2004

June off to impressive start in bid to win Colts starting LB job

MICHAEL MAROT

Associated Press

TERRE HAUTE, Ind. - Cato June used offseason practices to show Indianapolis Colts coaches could be a starting linebacker in the NFL. The real test, coaches knew, would come during training camp.

After one week, June is getting high marks.

The first time he put on pads at Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology, June picked off a pass from Peyton Manning and then lost his helmet when he made a crunching hit on running back Dominic Rhodes. Since then, June has been progressing like a speeding train - making plays, making impressions, making it look easy.

"What he's saying is that it's my job and you've got to take it away," linebackers coach Mike Murphy said.

June isn't leaving anything to chance.

He takes on ball carriers aggressively, eludes blockers with his speed, defends receivers with the coverage skills he learned playing in Michigan's secondary, and, yes, he likes to trash talk.

A year ago, June seemed an unlikely candidate to start. The Colts drafted him in the sixth round, figuring they could convert June from a college safety. Many teams considered him too small at 6-feet and a generously listed 227 pounds to take on blockers and stay healthy.

The Colts believed he could be a perfect in coach Tony Dungy's defense, which favors speed over size, instincts over hits.

"Fortunately, for me, I am in a situation where you don't have to be a big guy," June said. "You can run around and make plays."

June figured he fit the mold and after 14 training camp practices, Dungy is impressed with what he's seen.

"If one guy stands out in this camp so far, it's probably been Cato," Dungy said. "He's really played well."

June is still learning about playing closer to the line of scrimmage and making quicker reads, and it's sometimes been a difficult transition.

As a rookie, playing time was sparse. June appeared in 11 games last year, primarily on special teams, and produced just 11 tackles. His on-the-job training program consisted mostly of film study and veterans, like Marcus Washington and Rob Morris, teaching him the nuances of the game.

When Washington signed as a free agent with the Washington Redskins in March, the Colts needed a replacement. Their plan became to move David Thornton to Washington's strong side linebacker position and plug June in on the weak side.

"I was excited they had confidence in me that I could make it happen," June said. "At the same time, I knew I had a lot of work to do."

The early results have been encouraging.

Colts coaches expected June to wage a spirited training camp battle with Keyon Whiteside, another second-year player. But the battle has been mostly one-sided.

June has worked extensively with the starting defense and his big hits and big plays have gained the attention of teammates and coaches, while Whiteside has been relegated to working primarily with the backups.

"Cato came in and did very, very well during the mini-camps and summer school, but those were in shorts," Murphy said. "We wanted to see how he'd do when we put the pads on, and thus far, he's done very well."

The next challenge comes Saturday at San Diego when June starts his first game.

He is confident there will be no drop-off in front of a crowd he expects will include a large contingent of his family and friends.

"I need to put confidence in the coaches' minds that I can make this happen," he said. "It's not good enough to say you're almost there. You have to make plays."

 
Coach speak!!!! Impressive in camp means he will be able to start. Starting does not mean stud. David Thornton is and will remain the monster on that team.All this means is that it is safe to draft june as a LB3 on your fantasy team.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Coach speak!!!! Impressive in camp means he will be able to start. Starting does not mean stud. David Thornton is and will remain the monster on that team.All this means is that it is safe to draft june as a LB3 on your fantasy team.
I don't know about that.A starting WLB for Tony Dungy looks to be a very productive player for IDP leagues.
 
Exactly. And Ironically enough, Thornton is still seen by some as "the stud on that team" precisely because he was Dungy's WLB in years past.

 
Coach speak!!!! Impressive in camp means he will be able to start. Starting does not mean stud. David Thornton is and will remain the monster on that team.All this means is that it is safe to draft june as a LB3 on your fantasy team.
I don't know about that.A starting WLB for Tony Dungy looks to be a very productive player for IDP leagues.
Consider the players that you are speaking of. Derrick Brooks, for one, is the best pure linebacker in the game. He would do well in any defensive scheme. Dungy's did help some, as it emphasizes the WLB position, but it did not make him a stud.David Thornton. Dungy put him in a position to succeed, but he was a monster all on his own. Tell you what. You go ahead and draft Cato June as your LB1 and feel comfortable about it....then I will back off my opinion. Bottom line is that I will believe it when I see it.
 
Coach speak!!!!  Impressive in camp means he will be able to start.  Starting does not mean stud.  David Thornton is and will remain the monster on that team.All this means is that it is safe to draft june as a LB3 on your fantasy team.
I don't know about that.A starting WLB for Tony Dungy looks to be a very productive player for IDP leagues.
Consider the players that you are speaking of. Derrick Brooks, for one, is the best pure linebacker in the game. He would do well in any defensive scheme. Dungy's did help some, as it emphasizes the WLB position, but it did not make him a stud.David Thornton. Dungy put him in a position to succeed, but he was a monster all on his own. Tell you what. You go ahead and draft Cato June as your LB1 and feel comfortable about it....then I will back off my opinion. Bottom line is that I will believe it when I see it.
Let's look at the flip side of the coin...Who have been the successful SLB's under Dungy?? Yeah...I cannot think of any either. History is not in Thorton's favor. I sincerely doubt anybody in FF would draft Cato as a LB1, but this cat would definitely value Cato over Thornton at this juncture in time.
 
On KFFL some time ago (I don't have a subscription, so no link...maybe someone else has) they reported that the Colts would have no set WLB or SLB in there scheme this year. That is, the OLBs would not switch depending on the position of the TE.Therefore, June and Thornton would have similar numbers at the end of the year.

 
Coach speak!!!!  Impressive in camp means he will be able to start.  Starting does not mean stud.  David Thornton is and will remain the monster on that team.All this means is that it is safe to draft june as a LB3 on your fantasy team.
I don't know about that.A starting WLB for Tony Dungy looks to be a very productive player for IDP leagues.
Consider the players that you are speaking of. Derrick Brooks, for one, is the best pure linebacker in the game. He would do well in any defensive scheme. Dungy's did help some, as it emphasizes the WLB position, but it did not make him a stud.David Thornton. Dungy put him in a position to succeed, but he was a monster all on his own. Tell you what. You go ahead and draft Cato June as your LB1 and feel comfortable about it....then I will back off my opinion. Bottom line is that I will believe it when I see it.
Brooks is still in the same scheme under Monty Kiffin. Correct?
 
David Thornton. Dungy put him in a position to succeed, but he was a monster all on his own.
Thornton a monster? The doubters of June this year are the same type of people that were the doubters of Thornton last year - young, inexperienced and unproven. Thorton was an early 4th round pick - thus not displaying obvious "monster" attributes. But, he does have great speed, which is key to being a successful pursuit LB (i.e. WLB in Cover 2). Thornton replaced a bigger stud in Peterson two years ago, and the position's productivity did not miss a step. Why will it be so different this time? History has proven, it's the system. Who ever is in that position will have a lot of opportunity to make tackles. History has also proven that the SLB position in Dungy's cover 2 has limited fantasy production.It's not about drafting June as an LB1. It's about having the opportunity to take him as an LB3 (same as many did with Thornton last year) and getting LB1 production.
 
David Thornton. Dungy put him in a position to succeed, but he was a monster all on his own.
Thornton a monster? The doubters of June this year are the same type of people that were the doubters of Thornton last year - young, inexperienced and unproven. Thorton was an early 4th round pick - thus not displaying obvious "monster" attributes. But, he does have great speed, which is key to being a successful pursuit LB (i.e. WLB in Cover 2). Thornton replaced a bigger stud in Peterson two years ago, and the position's productivity did not miss a step. Why will it be so different this time? History has proven, it's the system. Who ever is in that position will have a lot of opportunity to make tackles. History has also proven that the SLB position in Dungy's cover 2 has limited fantasy production.It's not about drafting June as an LB1. It's about having the opportunity to take him as an LB3 (same as many did with Thornton last year) and getting LB1 production.
:goodposting:
 
On KFFL some time ago (I don't have a subscription, so no link...maybe someone else has) they reported that the Colts would have no set WLB or SLB in there scheme this year. That is, the OLBs would not switch depending on the position of the TE.Therefore, June and Thornton would have similar numbers at the end of the year.
No offense, but I have a real hard time believing this. The Colts are going to make a rookie (a guy who's not even played the position before in college or the NFL) play the strong side from time to time? That just seems like it would be too much, especially for a guy who is a little undersized and underweight anyway.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Again I say it. Draft Cato June as your LB1 and be comfortable with it....didnt think so.
Assuming you play in a 12-team league, who on this planet would draft Cato June over the likes of...???LewisBulluckEdwardsBrooking UrlacherArringtonBarnettPetersonSimmonsZ. ThomasFletcher ForemanYour "Cato June as a LB1" statement is the equivalent of saying, "Draft TJ Duckett as your RB1 and be comfortable with it...didn't think so." :excited: ~ confused
 
No its not. The orignal title of this post is "...new stud LB" Stud LB = LB1 to me.People toss the word stud around way too much. Like I said in my original post, I would be comfortable (and I bet you would too) drafting him as a LB3, nothing more.

 
Again I say it. Draft Cato June as your LB1 and be comfortable with it....didnt think so.
How about this... you draft Thornton as your number 1 LB and I'll draft C. June 5 rounds later and get similar if not better production. Sound like a deal :D
 
No offense, but I have a real hard time believing this. The Colts are going to make a rookie (a guy who's not even played the position before in college or the NFL) play the strong side from time to time? That just seems like it would be too much, especially for a guy who is a little undersized and underweight anyway.
You're going to make me find it aren't you!Okay, found it...wasn't KFFL, Profootballweekly (BTW: a more credible source in my opinion)ProFootballWeekly ArticleJune 21, 2004The Colts are getting away from a true “strong-side” and “weak-side” linebacker alignment within their 4-3 base defense. The coaching staff believes the best way to replace SLB Marcus Washington is to slide the more experienced David Thornton to that spot from the weak side, with speedy converted-safety Cato June working as the pure chase or “Will” linebacker. If an opponent moved its tight end to its left side, the Colts would not switch their outside ‘backers. With “interchangeable” linebackers, the Colts have an upper hand against opposing quarterbacks attempting to read the defensive alignment prior to the snap. Thornton has some natural rush skills and more size than June, who still has to win the job over 2003 undrafted free agent Gary Brackett, among others.
 
No its not. The orignal title of this post is "...new stud LB" Stud LB = LB1 to me.People toss the word stud around way too much. Like I said in my original post, I would be comfortable (and I bet you would too) drafting him as a LB3, nothing more.
Well said. I completely agree that June will not be a "stud."June would be a #3...at best. Given the presence of Gilbert Garnder on the Colts' roster, I would still probably draft guys like Barrett Green, Julian Peterson, Chris Draft, Kendrell Bell, Chris Claiborne, Brian Simmons, Nate Webster, Robert Thomas and Tommy Polley (i.e. guys listed lower than June of FBG's LB ranking sheet) before I would draft June....but I would also draft June before Thornton.
 
No offense, but I have a real hard time believing this.  The Colts are going to make a rookie (a guy who's not even played the position before in college or the NFL) play the strong side from time to time?  That just seems like it would be too much, especially for a guy who is a little undersized and underweight anyway.
You're going to make me find it aren't you!Okay, found it...wasn't KFFL, Profootballweekly (BTW: a more credible source in my opinion)ProFootballWeekly ArticleJune 21, 2004The Colts are getting away from a true “strong-side” and “weak-side” linebacker alignment within their 4-3 base defense. The coaching staff believes the best way to replace SLB Marcus Washington is to slide the more experienced David Thornton to that spot from the weak side, with speedy converted-safety Cato June working as the pure chase or “Will” linebacker. If an opponent moved its tight end to its left side, the Colts would not switch their outside ‘backers. With “interchangeable” linebackers, the Colts have an upper hand against opposing quarterbacks attempting to read the defensive alignment prior to the snap. Thornton has some natural rush skills and more size than June, who still has to win the job over 2003 undrafted free agent Gary Brackett, among others.
Thanks for finding the article, I like to read from the source whenever possible. That said, I'd still be surprised if Cato catches on quick enough to play him at SLB, but stranger things have happened. My guess is that Cato will primarily be the WLB, but will flip with Thornton from time to time to throw a different look at the offense.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No offense, but I have a real hard time believing this.  The Colts are going to make a rookie (a guy who's not even played the position before in college or the NFL) play the strong side from time to time?  That just seems like it would be too much, especially for a guy who is a little undersized and underweight anyway.
You're going to make me find it aren't you!Okay, found it...wasn't KFFL, Profootballweekly (BTW: a more credible source in my opinion)

ProFootballWeekly Article

June 21, 2004

The Colts are getting away from a true “strong-side” and “weak-side” linebacker alignment within their 4-3 base defense. The coaching staff believes the best way to replace SLB Marcus Washington is to slide the more experienced David Thornton to that spot from the weak side, with speedy converted-safety Cato June working as the pure chase or “Will” linebacker. If an opponent moved its tight end to its left side, the Colts would not switch their outside ‘backers. With “interchangeable” linebackers, the Colts have an upper hand against opposing quarterbacks attempting to read the defensive alignment prior to the snap. Thornton has some natural rush skills and more size than June, who still has to win the job over 2003 undrafted free agent Gary Brackett, among others.
That article actually confirms that June will always play weak side, in other words, the side without the TE. Traditionally that is the right side of the defense, but when it's the left they'll slide him there.BTW - I'd trust KFFL over PFW. KFFL (to my understanding) merely posts other publications' articles with their links; PFW posts its own news, but I've never seen a good track record with them.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
That article actually confirms that June will always play weak side, in other words, the side without the TE. Traditionally that is the right side of the defense, but when it's the left they'll slide him there.

BTW - I'd trust KFFL over PFW. KFFL (to my understanding) merely posts other publications' articles with their links; PFW posts its own news, but I've never seen a good track record with them.
???...mmm...okay...I'm not even going to discuss the WLB debate within this article. The information is in plain sight.I will, however, discuss KFFL being more "trustworthy" because it is a collection of other publication's articles per your definition. Too be short, I would rather trust a source if they performed their own research and had first hand knowledge rather than relaying 2nd hand information. Perhaps that's just me though.

Of course, a million people are smarter than one.

 
That article actually confirms that June will always play weak side, in other words, the side without the TE. Traditionally that is the right side of the defense, but when it's the left they'll slide him there.

BTW - I'd trust KFFL over PFW. KFFL (to my understanding) merely posts other publications' articles with their links; PFW posts its own news, but I've never seen a good track record with them.
???...mmm...okay...I'm not even going to discuss the WLB debate within this article. The information is in plain sight.I will, however, discuss KFFL being more "trustworthy" because it is a collection of other publication's articles per your definition. Too be short, I would rather trust a source if they performed their own research and had first hand knowledge rather than relaying 2nd hand information. Perhaps that's just me though.

Of course, a million people are smarter than one.
I didn't say that very well. PFW does their own research (and editorializing) and it sucks. KFFL compiles news reports from all sources, and gives you the scoop from them along with links and credit to the source which then allows you to see a more complete picture. That's why I like KFFL better.

 
I agree with the title. But I wish people would quit posting Cato June news, I'm afraid my leaguemates might see it. I predict top 15, maybe top 10 IDP this year for Mr. June. :thumbup:

 
The WLB position in a Tony Dungy defense is like the RB position in Denver. Plug and play and you get great results. Chances are that if you get the WLB in Tony Dungy's defense you have yourself a real nice top 10 LB. If Cato June continues to fly under the radar more power to you.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The problem is that the Colts drafted 2 LBs in this year's draft who are directly behind June on the depth chart. Thornton was the unquestioned answer at WLB last season. Gardner and Pope are going to find their way onto the field this year and June is likely to be guy hitting the bench most often. I expect we'll end up seeing a LBBC approach, with Gilbert Gardener getting progressively more reps as the season goes on. Thornton will be on the field more than the other LBs, and I think he'll lead them in tackles. He just won't put up numbers in line with last year. The guy who might benefit most from all of these changes is Mike Doss. Young LBs generally lead to a lot of tackles by the safeties.

 
More about Cato June:

Link

Second-Year Linebacker June Embraces Starting Job

TERRE HAUTE, Ind. – The time has come for Cato June.

He has been through the mini-camps. And the summer school.

He has been the subject of off-season speculation.

He has sat through film work, training camp practices, all the while thinking plenty about his role – and just what will be expected from him this season.

That time is over. Now, it’s time to play.

“It’s been a long time coming,” June said recently during Colts training camp, which continued with a pair of practices at the Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology Thursday morning and afternoon.

“I’m confident. I’m ready. You may only get one chance at this, so I have to make it happen when the opportunity comes.”

June’s first opportunity comes Saturday at 9:05 p.m. EST.

That’s when the Colts, the AFC South champion last season and the AFC runners-up, will open the preseason against San Diego Chargers at Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego.

For many Colts players, it’s very much a tune up, a chance to hit a player from another team, and test themselves against an unfamiliar opponent.

For June, it’s more.

June, a second-year veteran from the University of Michigan, played almost exclusively on special teams last season. He estimated he played “maybe” 10 plays on defense in the regular season. But with the departure of strong-side linebacker Marcus Washington via free agency in the off-season, and with David Thornton switching from weak to strong side, June moved into the starting weak-side backer role.

“I played mostly special teams last year – now’s the time to come in and step it up on defense,” June said.

He is confident in his ability, as are the Colts’ coaches.

Colts Head Coach Tony Dungy repeatedly has said he expects June to play well, and that he can handle the new responsibility.

“It’s one of those things where you’re kind of the new guy on the block,” June said. “Everybody’s looking to see what you’re going to do. I like it like that. I want someone watching me, because I’m confident I can go out and make some plays.”

Dungy said this week he expects the entire defense to play extensively early Saturday, likely into the second quarter. Less-experienced players such as June could play longer than more-experienced veterans, Dungy said.

“I would think our defense is going to play longer than our first offense, and then some of the younger defensive players will play even more than that,” Dungy said.

June said while he is confident he will play well, and while he believes he has played well during practices, a game – even a preseason game – is more of a test.

“You work against your offense every day and you have an idea about what they do,” June said. “You go out there (Saturday) against a totally unfamiliar team. All you’ve seen is what you saw on film. You have to go out and react and play. It’s a different feeling. It’s a lot faster and the game is more intense.

“I feel good. I don’t really have concerns. I’m a football player and this is a situation where I have to go out and do my job.

“I know what I have to do and I have to go out and make it happen.”

 
Too much speculation at this point on this issue. June is a 218 pound feather weight and has certainly NOT locked up anything yet. Heck he hasn't even played in a live game. The club specifically drafted Gilbert Gardner to fit into their WLB role at some point. Even if June does open the season as starter there is no assurance how long he will keep the job. If you are going to draft him you had best pick up Gardner as well. The only other LB in the league as small as June is Ray Thompson and he has had trouble staying healthy. The other point here is the fact that they are playing right and left, not strong and weak. This is the same situation that has killed OLB production on other clubs in recent years. IE who was the last REALLY productive OLB in Arizona, New Orleans or San Francisco? Seattle went to this style last year also which is why former STUD Anthony Simmons production dropped to 80 tackles (he did miss a couple of games with injury though) The whole point being that no matter who the starter is, he's not likely to match and may not even approach David Thornton's numbers from last year. On the other hand Thornton may not be a complete wash out either. I would suggest you not go too high on any of the Colts linebackers. P.S. Keep an eye on Gary Brackett. They are not real happy with Rob Morris and Brackett was making an impression last year before he was hurt.

 
Norton,You call him a featherweight and then insist that they're playing a straight left-right alignment. Do you think Dungy's blind to that? His small size and great speed are why they're sure to shift him to whatever weak side the offense gives them, no?

 
Too much speculation at this point on this issue. June is a 218 pound feather weight and has certainly NOT locked up anything yet.
Check that Norton. Espn.com and the team website list Cato June at 227 lbs. And I bet after a steak dinner, baked potato, and a glass of water he weighs 230+ lbs. Sure, he's not a huge 250 lb. LB, but that's not what Tony Dungy wants out of his WLB anyways. Dungy wants speed to get to the ball. Cato June has plenty of that with adequate size to play LB in the NFL. Also, Cato June may not have technically locked up the WLB position yet, but he's been running with the first team defense throughout mini-camps and training camp and all the coaches are heaping praise upon June. In fact, Tony Dungy has even stated that the guy who has stood out the most to him in training camp is Cato June. Read between the lines here guys, short of a major catastrophe in the preseason games Cato June WILL be starting as the WLB. The rookie LB's that were drafted weren't all that highly touted or polished that they could come right in and start like a Jonathan Vilma or D.J. Williams. They'll have to earn their playing time on special teams just like David Thornton and Cato June did. This is Cato June's job to lose.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Too much speculation at this point on this issue. June is a 218 pound feather weight and has certainly NOT locked up anything yet.
Check that Norton. Espn.com and the team website list Cato June at 227 lbs. And I bet after a steak dinner, baked potato, and a glass of water he weighs 230+ lbs. Sure, he's not a huge 250 lb. LB, but that's not what Tony Dungy wants out of his WLB anyways. Dungy wants speed to get to the ball. Cato June has plenty of that with adequate size to play LB in the NFL. Also, Cato June may not have technically locked up the WLB position yet, but he's been running with the first team defense throughout mini-camps and training camp and all the coaches are heaping praise upon June. In fact, Tony Dungy has even stated that the guy who has stood out the most to him in training camp is Cato June. Read between the lines here guys, short of a major catastrophe in the preseason games Cato June WILL be starting as the WLB. The rookie LB's that were drafted weren't all that highly touted or polished that they could come right in and start like a Jonathan Vilma or D.J. Williams. They'll have to earn their playing time on special teams just like David Thornton and Cato June did. This is Cato June's job to lose.
:goodposting:
 
Believe what you want, I'm not here to argue. I just hope you don't leap to high and come down with an air ball.

These are compliments of Ourlads which I have found to be one of the most dependable resources for such info

LOLB 50 Thornton David 02/4

MLB 94 Morris Rob 00/1 | 58 Brackett Gary F03 |

ROLB 59 June Cato 03/6 | 51 Gardner Gilbert 04/3

Cato June

Height 6'0"

Weight 218

Age 24

Draft Status 3-06

the guy doesn't weight 225 with a full belly, a wet jersey and ankle weights. there are bigger safeties in the league. Thus "Feather weight" is a fitting term IMO.

I'm not trying to say the guy stinks or that he won't end up opening the season as the starter, I just don't think he will be the long term answer and some of you guys are tagging him a stud way too early. He's worth a late round shot but I suggest you pick up Gardner to cover your @#&

 
Thornton is doing just fine in tonights game though. 4 tackles in barely over a quarter vs. the Chargers.He'll still put up good numbers as the SLB :thumbup:

 
Thornton is the LOLB, Morris is the MLB and June is the ROLBCan we all at least agree on this? After watching last nights game we can now believe this to be true. This is a growing trend that I cannot explain but it does hopefully lower expectations for June (the next Derrick Brooks) and does not kill David Thornton (he be better than Washington)Morris is still a liabilty but we will save that for another thread.In regards to June's weight...he is light for a OLB. While he is fast, he is light and will most likely be light this year. Why June was playing til the end I have NO IDEA...they cannot afford injuries to that young unit.Tom

 
Yep, the new Colts defensive formation should help both the outside LBs now more than it has in the past.Random thoughts though:1. It sure looked like that when the lights turned on, June disappeared last night and was out of position quite a bit. 2. Teams will quickly figure out they can run right at him because as poor an O-line as San Diego has they sure picked up a few yards on multiple chances and Doug Chatman even put June on his back during one tackle. Not the best sign.3. That Battle for the Outside spot is far from over and it seems Dungy was talking up June but he sure wasn't shy about putting Gardner in there on a rotating basis with June. Both Gardner and June put up tackle numbers but you surely better not think that June has it locked up as Gardner looked bigger and just as fast though he also had problems in coverage assignments on a few series.4. Thorton seemed the best LB to have of any of that bunch, he is still going to be a playmaker in some form.

 
A few other observations:1. June and Gardener rotated series with the first team defense, as did Morris and Brackett. June and Morris started, but Brackett and Gardener were in by the second series. Thornton and Morris were the only two LBs who got the night off after the first quarter.2. The starting Nickel backers were Thornton and Jim Nelson. After Thornton was done, it was Gardener and Nelson.3. I pretty much agree with the above assesments. June didn't make any tackles while he was in with the first team, and didn't look comfortable taking on blockers. Gardener looked more active last night, but also ran himself out of position at least a few times that I caught. The only LB who really distinguished himself last night was Thornton. Jim Nelson and Morris looked pretty solid also, though Nelson gave up a big pass play because he couldn't keep up with Justin Peelle.

 
I am just going to state the obvious here.Thornton is the ONLY Indy OLB with ANY meaningful experience. Everyone else in the mix is a 2nd year with very limited experience or a rookie. So, to say Thornton was the only OLB that looked good...no s$#t. The real question is, as we go through preseason do we see improvement in June or Gardner and will one of those guys have the opportunity to stake a claim to that WLB job permanently.Remember none of these guys are slam dunks. No one was a high draft pick and no one has exceptional skills. They have a lot of growing to do.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I was a little surprised to see June out there getting torched by Doug Chapman in the 4th quarter.I wouldn't draft this guy based on what I saw last night.

 
I just watched the game again on the FOX replay and I gotta say I agree...why was he in there so late.June, constantly out of positionWhiteside, ran in circlesNelson...slower than slowMorris...they need an upgradeBrackett, big motorThornton...solid tacklerGardner did nothing to garner any report cardEither these guys are slow or Peeple, Gates and Norman are faster than I remembered. The TE's gave them trouble all night and as a HUGE Colts fan I worry about there defense this year.Doss looked good though!Tom

 
You are right, the Colts defense is in trouble. Honestly, everyone on that team is second tier with very few exceptions. Thornton, Doss, and Freeney are the only good players on that team (Hopefully Bob Sanders signs and develops).Defensive Line----They really are hurting here. Dwight Freeney is the only player on the line. Brock, Tripplet, and Reagor as the other three on the line don't put the fear into anyone. This will limit Freeney's effectiveness because he will be seeing double teams all year long. No depth to speak of.Linebackers----The loss of Marcus Washington was significant....period. Rob Morris is a below average middle linebacker. He is a fair tackler and is poor in coverage. Thornton is a stud, no questions about it. Despite the reports from camp, I still think June is a bum....the Colts better hope Gilbert Gardner develops quickly. Gardner has some wheels that could really help the defense. Poor depth.Defensive backs----Doss is a top safety. He is average in coverage, but has good range and is a hard hitter. The other three are average, at best. Nick Harper had great fantasy numbers, but he is nothing special...he will tail off this year. Donald Strickland is OK, he is still young but is already injured this year...time will tell on him. Idress Bashir has been the starter, but is mearly an average player. Bob Sanders is the heir appearent, they just need to get him into camp. Man, their depth here is bad too.The Colts are a team in trouble. They might make a run this year on the merits of their offense, but there is no way they can go past the divisional round with this defense. Additionally, the Colts have mortgaged their future with the eye-popping signing bonus for Manning. 2004 is their last shot, everyone will be gone after this year and they will be in rebuilding mode.

 
remember too, what gets players points in IDP? Opportunities. With that, one typically looks for LBs who play all downs, not just the first couple run downs. In that view Thornton will have more opportunity for stats than June. Nelson and Thornton were the nickel backs and probably will be again, with Thornton the most probable dime LB. One can't forget the 4 down nature of many of Dungy's WLBs. Brooks played every down, so did Peterson and Thornton last year. That's where you get the points, playing only two downs makes it much harder to produce good stats.If June plays in the nickel and/or dime over Thornton (or Nelson in the nickel) then his value would increase. But only playing on 2 downs would have me drafting Thornton before June.Albeit determining which IDP players will start in the nickel/dime alignments isn't a trival task. But with all the week 3 preseason games being televised on the NFL network, it might be something one can figure out... (being that the first halfs in those games are typically the dress rehearsals for the week 1)

 
remember too, what gets players points in IDP? Opportunities. With that, one typically looks for LBs who play all downs, not just the first couple run downs. In that view Thornton will have more opportunity for stats than June. Nelson and Thornton were the nickel backs and probably will be again, with Thornton the most probable dime LB. One can't forget the 4 down nature of many of Dungy's WLBs. Brooks played every down, so did Peterson and Thornton last year. That's where you get the points, playing only two downs makes it much harder to produce good stats.If June plays in the nickel and/or dime over Thornton (or Nelson in the nickel) then his value would increase. But only playing on 2 downs would have me drafting Thornton before June.Albeit determining which IDP players will start in the nickel/dime alignments isn't a trival task. But with all the week 3 preseason games being televised on the NFL network, it might be something one can figure out... (being that the first halfs in those games are typically the dress rehearsals for the week 1)
:goodposting: Tom
 
, I still think June is a bum....the Colts better hope Gilbert Gardner develops quickly. Gardner has some wheels that could really help the defense. Poor depth.
Grady, do you have some scout knowledge on June? I totally agree the guy is untested but I consider Dungy an excellent Defensive mind. I can't see him throwing a player out there just for the hell of it. June has to have the ability or Dungy would not waste his time. One thing that I believe is total fact, Dungy's system makes the player, the player does not make the system. Peterson left, Thorton came out of no where to do the job, Thorton moves over and now June takes the job. IF the Colts thought Peterson was the anchor of the defense he would still be a Colt. At the time Thorton was unproven. Again, the colts have no problem making a move with Thorton because they know it's not the players, it's the system. The funny thing about it is, through all the change the only constant is Morris.
 
Excuse me for pointing out the obvious...But hasn't every WLB for the Colts been a stud the last few years? :yes: First, it was Mike Peterson, then Thornton, and NOW CATO JUNE. ;) Second, I don't really give two craps in a coffee can alongside a river how talented the guy is or big the guys is, if Dungy is going to play him at WLB and wants to give the kid a shot, then in any IDP league, June needs to be drafted b/c of the above history with the Colts. And the WLB always outpoints the SLB in most defensive schemes, including the Colts' and Dungy's units. Duh. :wall: Third, I just love listening to my league mates ask "who is he?" every year I scoop up a LB year in and year out. Not that I necessarily draft them, most of the time it is an immediate pick up on the WW after the game that backs up my hunch they could get some steady points in IDP leagues.I was the first to grab Barton, Hartwell, Barnett, Joey Porter, Thornton, Jamie Sharper in each of the last couple years when either through injuries or free agency departures these few above stepped up into the lime light. I'm telling you take CATO JUNE as the 3rd LB on your squad. He had 5 solos his last preseason game. He's being given all chances to win the job, and the fact that he is the projected starter in Dungy's scheme warrants the 3rd LB attention.Today, I grabbed him in Round 18 in a 12 team, 21 round draft, H to H, where we start 1 DB, 1 LB or DL and Flex IDP (any position). Cato will be my back up after I Selected Bulluck and Arrington (thanks for signing the freaking contract that allows you to be sold by the Player's Assoc). :D Side note: I drafted Lavar somewhat blindly this afternoon not knowing if he'd be available in our league or not b/c of his Player Assoc squabbles, although I had a hunch he was, b/c the site listed his name, so I figured that meant they had the right to use his identity. Thus I tell this little side bar, b/c I was prepared to go to Fantasy War with Cato June as my #2 LB and starter alongside Bulluck. Just do it baby and you will be rewarded with what I predict as:90+ solos, 1 sack, 2 INT's, and 2 or 3 FF/FR's. That's conservative, as any young and fast WLB in Dungy's scheme will pull off 100 solos. That puts the guy in good standing in our league.The posts on here that are down about Cato June are right that he shouldn't be a #1 LB on a fantasy team, but the ? is, next stud LB, is a legit question and the answer might be yes. That's all. Did anyone think Thornton was a legit #1 LB last year before the season. HECK NO. Don't be a liar. Instead, what happened, yeah that's right, he became the next great stud, and then THEY FRICKED IT UP BY MOVING HIM TO THE STRONG SIDE AND KILLING HIS FANTASY CHANCES OF REPEATING GLORY!Draft CATO JUNE.

 
I agree. The player who lands Thorton's gig will have huge numbers. I drafted June as my 3rd LB in a 12 team league. I picked up Gardner, just in case he is appointed the starter. If this falls through, and both players play poorly, I will put in Lance Briggs. He should have very good numbers in Chicago.

 
I picked up Cato June a week ago. In my league Cato is listed as a DB. I was playing around with starting lineups as we are at a new site. I saw I was essentially able to start an extra LB due to Cato being labeled DB.Is this a league glitch that I may be able to take advantage of or am I missing something?

 
I am not aware of Cato being listed as a DB this season. Although he played DB in college. You should take full advantage of this glitch.

 
Excuse me for pointing out the obvious...But hasn't every WLB for the Colts been a stud the last few years? :yes: First, it was Mike Peterson, then Thornton, and NOW CATO JUNE. ;) Second, I don't really give two craps in a coffee can alongside a river how talented the guy is or big the guys is, if Dungy is going to play him at WLB and wants to give the kid a shot, then in any IDP league, June needs to be drafted b/c of the above history with the Colts. And the WLB always outpoints the SLB in most defensive schemes, including the Colts' and Dungy's units. Duh. :wall: Third, I just love listening to my league mates ask "who is he?" every year I scoop up a LB year in and year out. Not that I necessarily draft them, most of the time it is an immediate pick up on the WW after the game that backs up my hunch they could get some steady points in IDP leagues.I was the first to grab Barton, Hartwell, Barnett, Joey Porter, Thornton, Jamie Sharper in each of the last couple years when either through injuries or free agency departures these few above stepped up into the lime light. I'm telling you take CATO JUNE as the 3rd LB on your squad. He had 5 solos his last preseason game. He's being given all chances to win the job, and the fact that he is the projected starter in Dungy's scheme warrants the 3rd LB attention.Today, I grabbed him in Round 18 in a 12 team, 21 round draft, H to H, where we start 1 DB, 1 LB or DL and Flex IDP (any position). Cato will be my back up after I Selected Bulluck and Arrington (thanks for signing the freaking contract that allows you to be sold by the Player's Assoc). :D Side note: I drafted Lavar somewhat blindly this afternoon not knowing if he'd be available in our league or not b/c of his Player Assoc squabbles, although I had a hunch he was, b/c the site listed his name, so I figured that meant they had the right to use his identity. Thus I tell this little side bar, b/c I was prepared to go to Fantasy War with Cato June as my #2 LB and starter alongside Bulluck. Just do it baby and you will be rewarded with what I predict as:90+ solos, 1 sack, 2 INT's, and 2 or 3 FF/FR's. That's conservative, as any young and fast WLB in Dungy's scheme will pull off 100 solos. That puts the guy in good standing in our league.The posts on here that are down about Cato June are right that he shouldn't be a #1 LB on a fantasy team, but the ? is, next stud LB, is a legit question and the answer might be yes. That's all. Did anyone think Thornton was a legit #1 LB last year before the season. HECK NO. Don't be a liar. Instead, what happened, yeah that's right, he became the next great stud, and then THEY FRICKED IT UP BY MOVING HIM TO THE STRONG SIDE AND KILLING HIS FANTASY CHANCES OF REPEATING GLORY!Draft CATO JUNE.
JoshPointing out the obvious?June is NOT the weakside LB, Thornton is NOT the strongside LB.Thornton is playing on one side and June on the other, they do not swap to cover the TE. This has not only been advertised but it has also proven to be true.What we have learned from this summer re: the Colts LB's is...they will not switch sidesThornton is playing all three downsJune and Morris play 2 downsJune has played 4 qtrs in both gamesThornton played 1 qtr and then last night 2 qtrsThornton in 3 qtrs has outscored June and everyother LB on the team.While it is easy to call June the WLB, Dungy has not, he calls him the ROLBJune will be a good backup for you, but he will not get anywhere near those projections unless he becomes a much better player and can stay in and be a 3 down LB.You cannot compare June to Brooks, Peterson, Thornton because Dungy changed the system. That has been mentioned several times already in this thread.Thornton will continue to throw up solid to great numbers.Tom
 
That is a good point Tom.But do you really think Dungy will go away from the system that has made his career?I'm just wondering if this is really more talk or lip service to help Thornton accept the switch??? We'll see when the regular season starts -- Thornton is going to be playing the stronmg side the majority is my bet and June the WLB. We'll let the season play it out. But nonetheless, I think you're missing the boat if you don't give June great consideration in a draft with IDP. Talk the flyer late in the draft and use him as the back up, and yes he could be very much more for the Colts. He has legit tools to succeed in the system. As ot your quarters of playing time in the preseason -- June is in competition, so not surprising the other player is getting some reps, no?

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top