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Everything posted by turnerj0

  1. I am serious that I think when you make a post taking a position and then end that post with a link, I expect the link to support your position. Isn't that what most people would expect?
  2. The article you linked to doesn't say anything about Pelosi getting her hair done and/or not wearing a mask. It certainly isn't in the headline.
  3. What liberal agenda? I am a conservative who never voted for a Democrat before 2018. Sorry, being firm in the belief that we should have a leader who speaks a thoughtful coherent message and does not lash out based on emotional lability is not a liberal agenda. There are many issues in which reasonable people can disagree. This is not one of them.
  4. This is absolutely insane. The idea that the person with the most powerful job in the world shouldn't be responsible for clearly communicating his ideas, and that it is ok for people to guess what they think he means, is horrifying. When someone expresses an idea it incumbent on that person to be clear in their meaning, not for the listener to try to interpret what they are trying to say. That is especially important for people in positions of authority. The use of vetted language by government officials is a good thing. It helps provide stability. When our leaders are inconsistent in their message, speak freely based on emotion rather than reasoned analysis, and say a lot of dumb things, it leads to economic volatility, harmful trade wars, escalation of tensions with nuclear powers, social unrest, and unnecessary deaths due to poorly coordinated response to disasters like a pandemic. You say that holding Trump accountable when he "misspeaks" is childish. What is really childish is allowing our country to be damaged and people to suffer so that people can fill an emotional need to have the president tell them what they want to hear, or at least something they can interpret as what they want to hear. Also the idea that Biden never speaks from the heart is ridiculous. Certainly he is a politician and parses his words from time to time. But from pretty much all accounts from both sides of the aisle he is one of the most genuine politicians in terms of saying what he thinks. That is part of the reason he does have the occasional gaffe. They just aren't on the scale or frequency that they cause incredible harm to the country.
  5. If you mean which party is responsible for violence occurring, it is obviously nonsensical to attribute the preponderance of blame to either political party. If you mean which party is responsible for magnifying the issue as a distraction from WAY more important issues like the failed response of the federal government to a generation pandemic or the repeated attempts by our president to undermine our democracy, that is obviously the Republicans.
  6. Yes that is absurd. Tell me how the physics of how the mask would affect either oxygenation or ventilation if you disagree.
  7. I am a doctor and there absolutely is not. It makes no physiologic sense. If you think it does, explain to me how that would work.
  8. Yes they are hypochondriacs. Or just fraudulent. There is not medical condition that would preclude a person from wearing a mask or cause a mask to adversely affect their respiratory status.
  9. But since you asked, yes please provide me a map. Tell me exactly which individuals are affected by wearing a mask and the physiologic basis for how it affects them.
  10. What's interesting is that for obesity, smoking, etc. you list the potential contributing factor as the cause of death. For COVID, which in most cases is likely a much more direct contributor to a death, you assume that it is just an incidental diagnosis and reduce the number of COVID deaths by some magical formula that you haven't explained. Why the inconsistency?
  11. Why many great Americans won't be voting for Donald Trump: https://www.defendingdemocracytogether.org/national-security/
  12. 1) "That's all that every happens here" is demonstrably false. While people tend to focus on the negative (a psychological issue not limited to political discussion and certainly not to liberals), there are many threads in this forum that have people espousing positive viewpoints, and some threads even dedicated completely to that. It probably is true that there are more negative posts right now than average, but most likely that is because there is a lot of horrible stuff going on right now. Whether you think it is the fault of the president or not, with more than 170,000 deaths from a historic pandemic, widespread social unrest, and the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression all happening within the last 6 months, it is hard to argue that this isn't the worst period for our country in decades. Maybe since the Civil War. 2) To me it is a very odd position to look at criticism as demonstrating a lack of love. When I see people who criticize their children more than I think is warranted, I typically don't doubt their love for the child. I may disagree that their actions are effective, but I assume that they are still trying to do what is best for their child. 3) I would think that one of the greatest signs of ACTUALLY loving America and not wrapping oneself in faux patriotism is to put country above party and/or personal interests. I see millions of everyday Americans who stay home not because they fear for themselves, but because they believe it is the right thing to do for their community, doing this. I see a number of public servants, from government employees to health care workers doing this. I see some ex-Republicans, the people associated with the Lincoln Group for instance, doing this. While I don't think it is the primary motivation of many Democratic politicians, I do even see some of them doing it. I do not see that being the case of any current Republican politicians (with maybe one or two exceptions) or of anyone who pushes false information about the pandemic. 4) Most importantly, the reason America is great is because of our core values that the country was founded on. The reason America should be loved is because it is has a foundation rooted in classical liberalism. It is great because it was created as a nation of representative government, equality between people, intellectual curiosity, etc. It has very often failed, sometimes in tragic fashion, to fully embrace and implement those core values, but the overall course of its 240+ year history is a movement toward a more perfect union through the promotion of those values. That is why me and many other people love the United States. America's greatness does not come from the Republican Party or the Democratic party, it does not come from any particular beliefs that either of those parties holds, it does not come a really high stock market, it does not come from using individualism or freedom (which on their own are good things) as a lame excuse to ignore science, and it certainly does not come from people like Donald Trump. I think that many of the people who are speaking out in the strongest terms right now understand that and it is out of love that they are so critical right now.
  13. I don't know, if there is one person who seems like he would be in touch with Stephen Stills and his point of view, it's Opie...
  14. I'm not sure I can even decipher this incoherent post, but trying to understand and respond the best I can: 1) I certainly don't blame Obama for everyone death that occurred while he was president, nor do I think it makes sense to assign "blame" for every death that occurs. There are probably some deaths that occurred due to actions taken by Obama that would otherwise not have occurred, and it might be reasonable to assign blame in those cases. Do you have any specific examples you would like to discuss so that we can have a reasonable discussion? 2) There are actually way more than 175,000 deaths due to COVID. It is almost certainly well above 200,000 by now and there is a ton of evidence that many of these deaths would not have occurred had President Trump taken different actions. That is why I believe he deserves blame for those deaths. But this isn't about me. YOU are the person who said a President should get the credit or blame for what happens during their presidency. I was just asking whether you were going to apply that position consistently. 3) I don't know of any examples of a prominent Democrat wanting an economic downturn. Can you please point me to a single example of one asking for that? 4) I am a conservative and agree that the Federal Government's role is not to be peoples' "babysitter". I do believe that responding to a pandemic is one of the few situations that is largely the responsibility of the Federal Government. And while Congress can allocate funds in that situation, which they have done, it is up to the Executive to provide leadership during the crisis. 5) I understand that Trump is a very poor leader, but if we is so weak that he is rendered ineffective by "the left" tearing him down, he probably should not be in elected office 6) I have no idea what you are saying or what your point is about accountability of hospitals and nursing homes 7) I have no idea what the USPS has to do with what we are talking about You also conveniently did not respond to my primary criticism of Trump.
  15. Yes we know this is how you think and how Trump thinks. It is probably the single most horrible and destructive thought process facing our country. Also, regarding your statement that "a president gets credit for things that happens in his administration", I assume that means you will be criticizing Trump for 175,000 dead Americans and the greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression?
  16. You can think that example is falsely inflating if you want, but I would not. I think physiologically it makes sense to count someone who dies of a "heart attack" (which is non-specific itself, we don't know if they are talking about an ST-segment elevation myocardial infarction, an elevated troponin in the setting of sepsis, or any of a number of other things when they say that) and is positive for COVID as a "COVID death". Sure there are cases in which the patient may have died even if they didn't have COVID. There are probably many more cases in which COVID is a significant contributor to the death but we don't know that because the person isn't tested or they have false negative tests given the known lack of sensitivity of most of the tests. On balance the data on excess\ death rates above normal would suggest that COVID deaths are being undercounted, not overcounted. But none of that has anything to do with what we were talking about, which is the notion that hospitals or their employees are falsely inflating COVID death rates for financial reimbursement. The quote you provided from the article has to do with how the state governmental agency is counting cases. That has nothing to do with how hospitals get paid.
  17. I don't think it is particularly weird that you would deflect to a topic completely unrelated to anything SC and I were discussing. It is something you do quite frequently. It is weird that you asserted that I said "we", whoever that is, shouldn't speculate. I didn't say that. In response to your question, we shouldn't blanket believe or disbelieve speculation, but should assign levels of confidence that it is true based upon a number of factors including the strength of the evidence backing it as well as possibly the motivations of the person doing the speculating. Perhaps I shouldn't have use the word speculation in the first place and then maybe we wouldn't have been sidetracked. State Senator Jensen is either ignorant or deliberately being dishonest. Personally I believe the latter is far more likely, though I am willing to concede that the former is possible. Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that death certificates are not being used to artificially inflate COVID death numbers for financial gain.
  18. Other than speculation from a politician, nothing in any of the links you posted indicates that COVID deaths are being falsely inflated (unless I missed something; if I did please point out the specifics so I can see exactly what is says).
  19. This is just plain wrong as it pertains to death numbers. Death certificates and billing have nothing to do with each other and hospitals would gain nothing financially by COVID being listed as a cause of death on a death certificate. COVID death counts are not being artificially inflated for financial gain. Period. If anything, all available evidence indicates that COVID deaths have thus far been significantly under counted: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/08/12/us/covid-deaths-us.html The impact of COVID is orders of magnitude worse than H1N1. Any position to the contrary is ridiculous.
  20. For those asking whether we need another thread to talk negatively about Trump, yes we absolutely do. Trump's record of corruption, deceit, immorality, and incompetence is unrivaled by any major politician in American history. Here is one account of that record if needed again: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11Q9bAZ2iB003jMInfp5f5lRbZeNA0gJUiv3u1RulRnY It is so extensive that it is difficult to keep it all straight. Trump tries to use that to his advantage. He attempts to normalize bad behavior. For the well-being of our country, as well as for our personal adherence to moral decency, it is incumbent upon us all to reflect everyday on all of the horrible things this man does and whether we can do more to oppose him. These threads serve an important function in that regard. I hope people continue to post in threads like this so that we do not allow complacency to lull us into acceptance of the president's awfulness.
  21. GDP growth under the first 12 quarters of Trump’s Presidency was lower than the last 12 quarters of Obama’s Presidency.
  22. No you aren't voting for socialism if you vote for a Democrat, because most democrats aren't socialists. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris certainly are not. But even if they were, I already explained the rationale for why I would vote for them over Trump. Capitalism is important to me. Not living under an autocratic regime is far more important. What behavior of the Democrats specifically do you find to be more objectionable than referring to the free press as the "enemy of the people", pardoning multiple political allies including one whose crimes were carried out to protect the president and one found in contempt of court, illegally withholding Congressionally approved funds from an ally, attempting to intimidate whistleblowers, praising murderous dictators including those who threaten our country and those who murder journalists, and being complicit in the cover up of one of those murders of an American journalist? All of those things which Trump has done I would consider far more corrupt, immoral ,and anti-American than anything I am aware of any well-known Democratic leader doing.
  23. As a conservative white male from the Midwest who voted straight Republican tickets for nearly two decades, I think the Democratic party (while I don't agree with many of their policy positions and certainly don't think I would ever consider myself a member of the party) are a better fit for me than the current Republican party. Whether you believe it is genuine or not, Democrats at least continue to give the outward appearance of caring about things like the rule of law, checks and balances, free and fair democracy, and basic human decency. The current Republican party has given up all pretense of caring about such things.
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