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Everything posted by weinster666

  1. 1) Where are you guys getting Mike's financial information? 2) Would Mike have to provide proof of payments to the so-called software developers? W666
  2. That really does not indicate what people are arguing about. Only about 15% of the money paid to Mike was for his service. Maybe I should have specified what argument I was referring to. I was referring to the argument between those who think everyone should get all their money back vs. those who think only the winners should be making claims for money. there is no argument regarding the other 85% of the money - we all know the money didn't belong to Phenoms or Mike.
  3. Obviously, there are 2 differing opinions of who lost what in this situation. On the one hand, there are those who look at the service Phenoms provided as a single whole entity. Its like if you bought a movie ticket, sat in the theater, watched the first 3/4 of the movie and then the projector broke. You wouldn't expect to only get a refund for 1/4 of the ticket price because you got to watch 3/4 of the movie. Whether you enjoyed or hated the movie, thought it a waste of time or a treasured memory, is irrelevant. You didn't get 100% of the promise service, and you believe you deserve 100% of the ticket price refunded. This is a valid point-of-view. On the other hand, some look at the service Phenoms provided by the various parts, like paying for the service of getting 6 months of newspapers delivered, only the last month never showed up. I would expect you would only get a refund for the newspapers you didn't get, not a full 6month refund. Phenoms provided many parts of the expected service - a place to join leagues, a method to run the drafts, Phenoms provided live scoring updates, kept track of standings of each week , handled waivers, etc. The one (and arguably the MOST IMPORTANT part) Phenoms didn't deliver was the prize pool payouts. In this point-of-view, I would say everyone, winners and losers, are out something, But the league winners have a more obvious financial loss. Both points have valid arguments. Ultimately, only a court can decide.
  4. That is why they have fraud laws and better business bureaus and the like. You cant go through life with the attitude that any product or service you buy, either from a mom-and-pop or giant chain, either in person or over the internet, might rip you off and you should just accept those consequences. Commerce requires some expectation of trust and legal protections against violations of that trust. If you purchase a service, there has to be some expectation that the service that is delivered IS the service they represented. Just like, on the other side of the coin, that the expectation is that you purchase the product and service with real legal tender currency and not monopoly money. I'm not sure what you can learn from this. That you should make all products yourself by hand, since you cant trust anyone? And learn all trades so you can do everything yourself? W
  5. I called, did you? i have been tied up with work all day but I will
  6. I just got this back from the Utah Attorney Generals Office. Please call the number and file a complaint: Thank you for writing to the Utah Attorney General's Office. We did find that Phenom Enterprises, LLC, is licensed with the Utah Division of Corporations and Commercial Code. With Phenom Enterprises, LLC being licensed, the Utah Division of Consumer Protection will take your report and look into them further.We recommend contacting the Division of Consumer Protection at (801) 530-6601, Monday - Friday 8 a.m to 5 p.m. If others have filed a complaint, an investigation could be possible. We trust this information will be helpful to you. Sincerely,Utah State Attorney General's OfficeConstituent ServicesSalt Lake City, Utah 84111(801) 366-0260
  7. I have no problem with a web designer/developer trying to charge 4x what they estimated. My problem is Mike taking OUR prize payout money and actually paying it to them. I wouldn't have given them one red cent. The developers and I would have planned out specific time tables and specific deliverable and verification at each stage that the product met the requirements of that stage. Then and only then would the developers get a portion of the 200k estimated funds. And what about that original 200K? Was that a business loan or line of credit...or was even that an embezzlement of the prize money escrow accounts. We may never know. W666
  8. Maybe he was getting a bulk discount but MFL charges $70 so 70x765 = $53,550 on MFL fees alone. Its all just speculation at this point, but MFL offers $10 off for each league after the first one, so, at the bare max, the cost would be $60 x 765 = $45,900. I have no idea how many leagues MFL handles, but I would guess if someone is coming to them with 700+ leagues a year, there would be a significantly larger discount than just $10/league. Like I said, just speculation without seeing the books. W666
  9. The web developer is probably suing him. I've played on Phenoms for about 8 years. The one thing I never liked about it is it didn't have its own site. I'm not a big fan of MFL and it was weird to draft with ESPN too. If it were my business I would have been trying to make my own league management site too. He ran the leagues very well and had a loyal customer base so you could always count on leagues filling, and it was ideal for keeper/dynasty. But from a website/presentation perspective he was basically running a patchwork operation and I think he would have been steamrolled by other sites if he didn't modernize. Occam's Razor says he knew he had a failing business model and ran off with the cash. He was paying MFL to run his leagues. I'm guessing he thought in the long run hosting his own leagues was the way to go. Well it cost him. I doubt he was trying to screw us. But in the end...we got screwed. I am leaning toward this same assessment of his business plan, but I wouldnt say he had a failing business before hand. If we go with the estimates others have stated, he brings in approx. $1million from entry fees, and, @ 10% admin fee on average, Phenoms grosses $100,000/yr. Some of that goes to the web services hosting www.phenomsff.com , and some costs to MFL to run the leagues, maybe Phenoms pulls in $60,000/yr as a rough estimate. Since Phenoms is a one-man show, that means Mike is making $60K a year for basically a side-job. He puts in some serious time during the draft timeframe, but I cant imagine a whole lot after that. Settle some disputes as they come up. He can probably do that from his phone while working his real job. He wasnt making a million and retiring, but it also isnt a bad gig. He should have left well enough alone. W666
  10. Let me insert some logic... Let's assume the web development story was true...even if the new website was 100% fully functional after spending $600k, how was he going to pay league fees? It's , folks. Most likely he saw it going north of $200K some time ago and started looking for investors. Maybe he had a deal that looked like it was going to happen and he foolishly let the dev costs continue to mount. Then the deal fell through. Of course there are many things he could have done to stop the bleeding to keep the business solvent so he totally ####ed up. It makes no sense to me that a guy who builds a business and does good by everyone for many years decides to run away with 1 season of deposits. Especially when FF has really exploded in the last couple of years. He stands to do much better keeping the site going. The scam theory doesn't add up to me. The only plausible thing to me that borders on immoral is if he thought his site was going in the tank because of all the big boys outdoing him, he took a shot at having his site redone, didn't like the result, and just bailed. I just dont see the logic in paying some web developer far more than expected to produce a product to support a customer base he is losing. If you are going to pay one or the other, I would think you would keep the customers happy and not pay the web developer. Even if the new web site was completed, whats the point of having it with no customers to use it? Even if he had some contractual obligation to the web developer, what is the difference if he is filing for bankrupcy anyways? With happy customers, he could shut down "Phenoms Enterprises LLC" today, start up "Phenomzzz Enterprises LLC" tomorrow, and have the same base of loyal customers to play there. Bottom line - He should be offering these web developers the 20-40cents on the dollar and paying us in full. That would make the most business sense. W666
  11. So, looking forward. One of the main reasons I liked about Phenoms was that it had a lower rake than other sites I had seen. Any suggestions for the next place to eventually rip me off? W666
  12. I wonder if an footballguy staff members can respond to this question: It appears Mike Zangrilli was or is a staff member of footballguys.com http://apps.footballguys.com/staff.htm According to the Phenoms web site "about" information (https://www.phenomsff.com/help/about.php ) In 2003, Footballguys.com approached me about running leagues for their website. We worked on a plan, but in the end, they decided against adding leagues to their website. I decided to continue what I had started by creating Phenoms Fantasy Football. The Greek Leagues laid the foundation, thus the Greek Letter naming system for the leagues. I was hoping if a Footballguys staff member could provide more details about this claim. Was/is Mike a Footballguys.com staff member? Was there discussions with Mike back in 2003 about running legaues on Footballguys.com? If so, what was Mike's background or qualifications for this? Did Mike have web developer/designer experience? If Mike was/is a web developer, that makes me question even more the valididty of his claims that he hired some 3rd party web developers and their overcosts caused him to reach this point. W666
  13. After the beginning of the season, does Draft Dominator no longer get updated? Currently, the last update was 9/3 and I find the tool useful all year long
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