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Ignoratio Elenchi

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Posts posted by Ignoratio Elenchi

  1. 30 minutes ago, df1wiseguy said:

    But when my kid is missing an assignment don't come calling to me....talk to them....they have the capability to email or zoom them.....instead I get the email because that is easier for the teacher....

    How is sending you an email easier than sending your child an email?

  2. 2 hours ago, Payne said:

    I feel the people making these decisions  believe the numbers were going to come back the other way around. They all had a look of disbelief. 

    I'm having a hard time picturing the context here.  The people who conducted the survey had a look of disbelief when they released the survey results to the public?  


    2 hours ago, Payne said:

    I feel the time that has passed since March should have been geared toward a hybrid model. It would be easier to pivot to either all online or in person with that structure. It's darn near impossible to focus on all online to find out most everyone wants back in class. On top of that, how much work will have to be done when in person is deemed "safe" and the kids and teachers need to pivot to that?  

    I agree that things would be better if districts had picked a single approach months ago and spent all this time working on how to make it as good as possible.  I acknowledge there would've been issues with that, too, however, as it was hard to predict what September would look like back in March.  

    Pivoting back to full in-person schooling when it's safe to do so will be relatively easy, the entire system is set up to operate that way.  It will just be returning to normal.  In the interim, the hybrid approach is the hardest to implement, as you're asking teachers to simultaneously provide two different kinds of instruction.  Pivoting to/from all-online or all-in-person is much easier than the split approach.

    Personally I think all summer should've been spent figuring out how to provide the best possible remote education to everyone, while figuring out how to also accommodate people who need the other services schools provide (free daycare, meals, etc.)  No solution is perfect but all of the hybrid plans I've seen, including the one being implemented in my own town, seem like half-### solutions to appease people without actually solving many of the issues (e.g. people who need to return full-time to work).  I'm pretty sure if the state government wasn't requiring some form of in-person instruction in the fall, our district would've gone fully online to start the year.  Part of me suspects we'll end up with that anyway at some point in the next few weeks.  


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  3. 42 minutes ago, Payne said:

    My school district announced last night that their survey results showed 1,100 out of 7,500 chose online only. Less than 15%. 

    The rest of us want in person or some form of hybrid. Yet our district decided to go all online. 

    Personally, I think it's laziness combined with a lack of funding at every level. Had we started this properly back in March or April, it probably could have worked.


    Somewhat ironically, if more people chose online-only you might've had a better chance at getting some form of hybrid, as it would have been easier to fit the remaining kids into the existing schools.  It's possible they did the work and determined it wasn't feasible to have 85%+ of students come back to school while implementing all the various health and safety protocols needed to reopen safely.   

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  4. 46 minutes ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

    Why not?  If they are just sitting at desks and teachers are rotating among rooms, that's not social development.  That's jail.  Younger kids need school partly because they can socialize and have free play at recess.  Sitting at a desk with a mask on just means they aren't at home.  The teachers can't really teach sitting at the front of the room and never moving.

    Exactly, everyone agrees that younger kids do need socialization for development and mental health, etc. but they’re not going to get that at school this fall.  When I thought about sending my elementary school aged kids back for the above reasons and considered no recess, no lunch tables, no centers or group activities... just sitting at a desk with a mask on all day while half their friends aren’t even in the room? Without question that’s much worse than what they’ll get at home.  I feel bad for people who have no choice but to send their kids in because of work.  I’ll be thrilled to send my boys back to school, when school is back to normal. 

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  5. 1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

    It actually sounds like you guys got a pretty great deal. Both got to work from home. Didn't get laid off, furloughed, or have your small business get closed down. 

    Sure, others have had it much worse. I wouldn’t say anyone has gotten a great deal these last few months. We’ve all had a lot of challenges to deal with. I didn’t even get one of those stimulus checks everyone was talking about a few months ago.  :kicksrock: 

  6. 7 minutes ago, Otis said:

    I don’t really get the deep clean days.  This thing doesn’t sit on desks, does it?  It’s in the air.  Is the deep cleaning making much difference?

    It’s hygiene theater. We’re gonna Lysol all the light switches in the school with a 100 year old ventilation system. 

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  7. 1 minute ago, shadyridr said:

    What a joke. Or maybe perhaps BOTH parents have full time jobs and their child has an IEP that their parents cant possibly support.

    No one said it was easy.  We all got stuck with a ####ty deal.  It is what it is.  I worked full time and homeschooled my two kids because my wife spent all day teaching other people's kids.  Most parents work, we all had to figure it out.  I stand by my statement. 


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  8. 3 minutes ago, The Gator said:

    I do think that effective remote learning is more a function of how seriously the parents take it, than how seriously the teachers take it.


    But, that is probably also true with in-school learning also. 

    This is very true, and it's my contention that the parents who complain that the teachers "didn't do anything" in the spring are outing themselves as the types of parents who didn't take it very seriously at all.  Lots of kids did very well in the spring and lots of kids just disappeared a few weeks in.  There's only so much a teacher can do from afar in the latter cases.  

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  9. 2 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

    Kids, IN GENERAL, aren't going to reach out on their own to the teachers to ask for help.


    You happy?

    No, because I have direct knowledge that that's not true.  Some kids do, some kids don't.  Sounds like your kid is the kind that doesn't.  :shrug: 

    In my anecdotal experience it doesn't seem like it's a supermajority in either direction so I don't think you can generalize either way.  

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  10. 3 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

    :lmao: Why does everybody think when I say something I mean 100%? Its not all or nothing. I am generalizing obviously.

    Because if you didn’t mean 100% it’s not clear what your point is. Some kids do reach out to their teachers. Plenty of 3rd graders did in the spring so 5th graders shouldn’t have an issue with it. As the other poster noted it’s not hard to guess which ones did and which ones didn’t. 

    I’m really not sure how parents think this is going to work without their involvement, especially if their kid isn’t the type to take initiative on their own. 

  11. I'm aware that everyone's had different experiences.  Right off the bat, some people live in crummy towns with bad schools, and I expect their educational experience during quarantine was worse than in my town, just like it's worse in normal years.  Surely some of the debate is colored by those different perspectives.  

    I think not enough credit is given to the fact that teachers (at least here) found out on a Friday night that they'd be transitioning to all-remote learning on Monday morning.  It took weeks just to figure out the basics because this was not something anyone ever planned for.  Given a few months to prep, I'd expect remote learning to be improved in the fall, although from what I've seen I'm afraid we've wasted most of this time figuring out how to deep-clean the doorknobs in the school building so kids can go back, rather than putting all resources into providing the best possible remote education.  In our town, teachers will now have a few weeks to figure out how to teach a hybrid model where some students are in the classroom and some are online for half a day some days, and different kids are in the classroom other days, and it's all online in afternoons and on Wednesdays, etc.  Not quite sure because all the details of the official plan haven't been announced yet despite school starting a month from now.  If people thought full-remote education didn't work in the spring, I have a feeling half-remote education is unfortunately going to be even more of a mess. 

    Anyway, whenever I see comments that teachers "checked out" and didn't do anything during the spring, I have to be honest that I default back to what I said earlier:

    On 7/15/2020 at 12:06 PM, Ignoratio Elenchi said:

    In our district the teachers had a scheduled 30 minute video chat with the entire class each day for discussion, questions, etc.  It's very easy to see, for example, how some parents might mistakenly believe that the teacher was therefore only working 30 minutes a day, oblivious to the hours spent daily on other calls with parents and students who reached out for individual attention, curriculum meetings, lesson planning and creation, grading and feedback, interviews with child protective services, IT support for parents who don't know how computers work, and the myriad other things I've witnessed teachers doing these last few months to somehow transition to full-remote learning with literally zero advance notice.  I've had to work from home through all of this, too, and I took on most of the load of home-schooling our kids because I can mostly do my work on my own schedule as opposed to my wife who had to devote her attention to other people's kids most of the day. 

    Just seems silly for people posting on a fantasy football message board all day to complain that their kids' teachers weren't working hard enough.  

    100% I am sure that there are some teachers in this country who completely ghosted their kids once the pandemic hit.  That's a shame and they should absolutely be held accountable.  I'm also certain that they are a very small minority of teachers.  My opinion (founded on first-hand experience on both sides of the "screen") is that most people complaining that teachers didn't do enough actually have no idea what teachers have been doing.  If your kid's teacher was positing bikini pics in instagram all spring, I agree you should be pissed and wondering what your town is doing wrong.  I just don't personally know anyone here who had that experience.   :shrug: 

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  12. 9 minutes ago, matuski said:

    There are many examples in this world where you can achieve addition by subtraction.

    Again - not my claim, but it isn't too far fetched to imagine a scenario where you could improve in this manner if a good portion of the teachers struggle with the remote format.

    Certainly possible that over the next 10-20 years we transition to a model where technology enables us to provide students with a better education while employing fewer teachers.  

    It is not at all plausible to believe education would be better with fewer teachers four weeks from now. 

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  13. Honestly the plans to reopen schools seem almost entirely based on the hope that coronavirus won't show up there.  It's like the MLB deciding "it's fine, let's just play" and then a week later half the Marlins test positive and games have to get cancelled.  Can't wait for all the #####ing when inevitably a school somewhere in NJ opens as scheduled and ends up closed by the end of September.  Instead of devoting resources to making sure students get the best possible at-home learning experience from day 1 in the fall, we've wasted half the summer figuring out how to spray down desks with disinfectant in the middle of the day and other similar nonsense.  

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  14. 43 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

    These NYC protocols are ridiculous. Why even bother trying to open schools?


    I don't know what people thought would happen, that's why this whole push to half-### reopening schools is dumb.  We know how to stop the spread of coronavirus.  Letting it spread through a school is not how to get it done.  

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  15. Still waiting for our district's plan to roll out, deadline is the end of next week.  It's crazy to me that we've collectively wasted so much time trying to figure out these weird hybrid schedules where the kids go to school for half a day three days a week or whatever, when we could have spent all summer figuring out how to provide the best possible virtual learning for everyone.  This hybrid nonsense is the worst of both worlds, kids and staff will be at higher risk, for a ####tier educational experience, and parents still won't be able to go back to work full time if they're only getting half of the free state daycare.  Who's voting for these options?  Either send the kids all the way back to school or don't, these half-measures feel like a nonsensical "compromise."

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  16. 1 hour ago, shadyridr said:

    Lot harder to postpone nfl game than mlb game.

    I know, that's why I'm wondering what the NFL will do if the virus sweeps through a team and half a roster tests positive on a Friday afternoon.  In MLB there's already a precedent for postponing games (albeit not for this reason), surely the NFL is coming up with some kind of plan to deal with this since it's not as simple to just reschedule.  

  17. I suspect we're still, at a minimum, at least 12 months away from getting anywhere near normal.  Given the current state of things, I don't see how we're not fumbling our way through this all the way through winter and into next spring.  

    Public transit has always been gross.  I've ridden buses and subways to work for years and always thought it was gross.  Anyone who's commuted in NYC has seen the occasional Asian person wearing a mask in the winter.  Always thought it was kind of funny.  Now I suspect that will be the norm for the foreseeable future.  Personally I've always had the flexibility to work from home as needed, and I'm expecting to make that a more permanent thing going forward - I'll wear a mask if I have to get on the subway again but I'd honestly prefer to just avoid it altogether.  So I don't think we ever get back to pre-COVID "normal" here, there will be a big shift towards more remote work now that we've demonstrated it can be done. 

    A lot of restaurants won't make it through the next year or so of reduced business but that's an area I think will eventually return to normal.  You'll probably see some minor changes like hand sanitizer dispensers at the hostess stand or whatever but people will eventually be comfortable with this again.  I know I'm personally looking forward to going out to a nice restaurant at some point in the future, as a sign of our return to normalcy.  

    Schools will eventually get back to normal because a lot of people need the daycare.  That's the reality for a ton of people, we don't have public schools because they want the state to educate their kids, we have public schools because capitalism demands they have somewhere to put their kids for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.  Like restaurants there will probably be some changes around sanitation practices, etc. though I suspect a lot of that will just be theater.  For the most part schools will go back to normal, for better or worse, in fall 2021.  



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