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​ 🏛️ ​Official Supreme Court nomination thread - Amy Coney Barrett (3 Viewers)

IvanKaramazov said:
Likewise, if there is some kind of conspiracy behind this letter, we'll find that out as well.  All 65 signatories have probably already been contacted by the media to find out when they were contacted and by whom.
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That didn't take long.  My PR theory was wrong, but the truth was even simpler:

The letter was conceived and drafted by friends of Brett’s, and it was drafted after allegations came out on Thursday. I learned about the letter from a friend and fellow signatory. Others learned about it the same way. Those surprised at the speed with which it came together should see it as yet another testament to Brett’s excellent reputation.
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Link

 
TobiasFunke said:
It's doesn't mean much for the nomination one way or the other, and it doesn't invalidate the letter (which IMO is irrelevant for other reasons). It just means that the Republican party has been concealing allegations of sexual assault against a nominee for the Supreme Court while pushing him through the confirmation process. Which is not a great look for them.  Especially considering some other recent examples of the party ignoring/minimizing other allegations of sexual assault.
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A Democratic Senator concealed these allegations since July.

 
So what now? I know many people don’t believe this charge, and if indeed it’s false it would be a terrible thing if Kavanaugh wasn’t voted in as a result of a false accusation. 

But on the other hand, suppose the Republicans refuse to consider it, vote him in quickly, and then more information comes out that he’s guilty? That would be terrible for the GOP- it could cause them to lose the Senate. Plus Kavanaugh would likely be impeached with all that entails. It’s an awful risk to take, unless you’re SURE he’s blameless. Is anybody here? 

 
TobiasFunke said:
At the request of the accuser/alleged victim. Not exactly the same thing.
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That's fair.  And I'm sensitive to the fact that this is a developing story and we'll all be better-informed in a few days.  But as of right now, there are only two people who we know for sure knew about this allegation, and both are in the opposition party.

To be clear, I don't care much about this letter one way or the other.  It's a bunch of people who are basically vouching for the guy's character, which is nice, but very few of them are presumably in any position to know about Kavanaugh's sexual history.  It would be very interesting if a handful of women who dated Kavanaugh weighed in to say that he was always a gentleman (or not), but general friends and acquaintances can't tell you much.

 
TobiasFunke said:
At the request of the accuser/alleged victim. Not exactly the same thing.
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Laurence Tribe‏ @tribelaw 3h3 hours ago

It’s easy to see why @SenFeinstein was in a quandary here. It could distract from issues of executive power and women’s autonomy and is based on a decades-old allegation. Yet it echoes other veracity concerns and is, after all, about the rights of women.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
That didn't take long.  My PR theory was wrong, but the truth was even simpler:

Link
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The story is kinda dubious, but recognizing that it's all we've got (and that I'm biased against rich powerful Republican type), I guess it's good enough for me.

Now as for the part where anyone involved, from Grassley on down, would think a bunch of women saying "he was nice to me!" somehow exonerates someone from or is even all that relevant regarding allegations of sexual assault ...

 
Henry Ford said:
Where did you read the account of what happened?
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First Henry came after Ivan, and I said nothing, because I am not Ivan

Serious answer - I may have read one news report about the letter online. Other than that just here

 
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TobiasFunke said:
Now as for the part where anyone involved, from Grassley on down, would think a bunch of women saying "he was nice to me!" somehow exonerates someone from or is even all that relevant regarding allegations of sexual assault ...
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I don't see this as being problematic either.  At this point, this is he-said / she-said.  In these kinds of cases, we're stuck trying to figure out who is most credible.  Character witnesses are marginally helpful here, albeit not by much.

 
randall146 said:
First Henry came after Ivan, and I said nothing, because I am not Ivan
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I've seriously been asking people for what they're claiming all day.  We don't have any idea what this woman is claiming Kavanaugh did, other than vague assertions.  We don't know what Feinstein said other than a statement definitely not providing innuendo (in fact not even asserting the sex of the person who wrote the letter.)  I'm just trying to figure out what's going on.

 
randall146 said:
Serious answer - I may have read one news report about the letter online. Other than that just here
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If "he tried to force himself on me" = "He grabbed me and held me down and then I kicked him and ran away" then yes, he's an accused attempted rapist.

If "he tried to force himself on me" = "He held me down, pulled my clothes to the side and stuck his tongue in me" then he's an accused rapist.

I don't have any idea what the actual allegation is.

 
Henry Ford said:
I've seriously been asking people for what they're claiming all day.  We don't have any idea what this woman is claiming Kavanaugh did, other than vague assertions.  We don't know what Feinstein said other than a statement definitely not providing innuendo (in fact not even asserting the sex of the person who wrote the letter.)  I'm just trying to figure out what's going on.
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If only there was some sort of hearing.

 
Henry Ford said:
If "he tried to force himself on me" = "He grabbed me and held me down and then I kicked him and ran away" then yes, he's an accused attempted rapist.

If "he tried to force himself on me" = "He held me down, pulled my clothes to the side and stuck his tongue in me" then he's an accused rapist.

I don't have any idea what the actual allegation is.
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I don’t either, but I read “he tried . . .” as he didn’t succeed. 

“In the letter, the woman alleged that, during an encounter at a party, Kavanaugh held her down, and that he attempted to force himself on her. She claimed in the letter that Kavanaugh and a classmate of his, both of whom had been drinking, turned up music that was playing in the room to conceal the sound of her protests, and that Kavanaugh covered her mouth with his hand. She was able to free herself.”

 
https://www.weeklystandard.com/virginia-hume/about-that-letter-from-women-in-support-of-brett-kavanaugh
 

About That Letter From Women in Support of Brett Kavanaugh

On Thursday afternoon, Dianne Feinstein released a cryptic statement saying she had submitted to federal investigators a letter about Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh. Although the FBI quickly announced it would not pursue an investigation, speculation surfaced that the claims related to an incident of sexual misconduct dating to Kavanaugh’s high school years.

On Friday, a group of women who knew Brett in high school sent a letter in support of him to Senators Grassley and Feinstein. I am one of those 65 women. Having seen some of the reaction to the letter, I’d like to clear up a few things:

The letter was conceived and drafted by friends of Brett’s, and it was drafted after allegations came out on Thursday. I learned about the letter from a friend and fellow signatory. Others learned about it the same way. Those surprised at the speed with which it came together should see it as yet another testament to Brett’s excellent reputation.
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randall146 said:
I don’t either, but I read “he tried . . .” as he didn’t succeed. 

“In the letter, the woman alleged that, during an encounter at a party, Kavanaugh held her down, and that he attempted to force himself on her. She claimed in the letter that Kavanaugh and a classmate of his, both of whom had been drinking, turned up music that was playing in the room to conceal the sound of her protests, and that Kavanaugh covered her mouth with his hand. She was able to free herself.”
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Yes, I read that.  I also read it as he didn't "succeed" but I also know that both scenarios I outlined (and a good many more) can qualify as not "succeeding."  I'd like to read the letter, and in any event he's being accused of sexual assault in either count. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
But jeez, the GOP couldn't possibly have picked a worse tack to defend their man. Claiming that acting decent around other women is somehow exonerating and slamming the allegations because the alleged victim chose to remain anonymous is gross. Imagine if a business responded like that after someone prominent in their organization was accused of sexual assault.  The #MeToo crowd would drag them to their death, and rightfully so. It's almost like the GOP is trying to alienate the under 50 female vote.
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Then how does one actually defend themselves against an accusation like this?  (This is rhetorical - basically you can't, certainly by your standards).  

He has categorically denied doing anything wrong and he has a huge host of women vouch for his good character.  How else do you defend yourself against a 35 year old he said/she said accusation?

I'll hang up and listen.

 
Henry Ford said:
Yes, I read that.  I also read it as he didn't "succeed" but I also know that both scenarios I outlined (and a good many more) can qualify as not "succeeding."  I'd like to read the letter, and in any event he's being accused of sexual assault in either count. 
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https://www.weeklystandard.com/virginia-hume/about-that-letter-from-women-in-support-of-brett-kavanaugh
 

About That Letter From Women in Support of Brett Kavanaugh

On Thursday afternoon, Dianne Feinstein released a cryptic statement saying she had submitted to federal investigators a letter about Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh. Although the FBI quickly announced it would not pursue an investigation, speculation surfaced that the claims related to an incident of sexual misconduct dating to Kavanaugh’s high school years.

On Friday, a group of women who knew Brett in high school sent a letter in support of him to Senators Grassley and Feinstein. I am one of those 65 women. Having seen some of the reaction to the letter, I’d like to clear up a few things:

The letter was conceived and drafted by friends of Brett’s, and it was drafted after allegations came out on Thursday. I learned about the letter from a friend and fellow signatory. Others learned about it the same way. Those surprised at the speed with which it came together should see it as yet another testament to Brett’s excellent reputation.
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Just for you Henry

 
Qanon said:
Trump never said he grabbed women by the &*&^&, it is a lie.

Read the transcript.

He said "you could" he never said he did.

Just another lie from the Fake News.
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I never mentioned Trump. Not sure why’d you’d bring him up in the context of me pointing out that “the right” grabs women by the #####. 

 
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randall146 said:
I never mentioned Trump. Not sure why’d you’d bring him up in the context of me pointing out that “the right” grabs women b the #####. 
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We both know what you implied, but if not who on the Right has made that comment. Please provide link like I did.

With all the sexual abuse resignations lately, seems much more likely from the left.   :thumbup:

 
-fish- said:
I have never been raped by Brett Kavanaugh.  Where do I send my letter?
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Is that an implication that you have been ra**ed by men other than him?

These are 65 woman that went to school with him.

I think that says a lot.

 
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Qanon said:
Is that an implication that you have been ra**ed by men other than him?

These are 65 woman that went to school with him.

I think that says a lot.
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I went to high school with about 1100 women.   1095 or so could write a letter saying I didn't have sex with them.  

 
Henry Ford said:
In that context, it's a little unsettling they could only find 65.
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Bet you could not get that many women to defend you in 2 days time. From a high school decades ago.

It is actually very impressive. Many more than would or could be expected. 

 
I can also write a letter saying I wasn't murdered by the Zodiac Killer.  Does that mean Ted Cruz is innocent?

 
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