☞ Official SOPRANOS Thread (2 Viewers)

[Ghost Rider]

I love the sitdown earlier in the episode. When Hesh refers to his people as once being the "white man's n-word," the look on Tony's face is absolutely priceless.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Did we ever figure out if Tony is dead that the end? I'd more or less decided that he was, more to give myself some closure if nothing else.

 

[Tiger Fan]

I think he got across

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Yes.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Spoiler

Cazzata malanga!

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Did we ever figure out if Tony is dead that the end? I'd more or less decided that he was, more to give myself some closure if nothing else.

Pretty sure you will not be seeing Tony again on screen

 

[jdoggydogg]

When Chris tells Ade that some people "sh-t all over" Visiting Day's demo tape, she says "Who... Hesh? That synagogue cancer???"

I give it roughly a 4% chance that Adriana La Cerva would know WTF a synagogue is.

It's synagogue cantor.

It's east coast. Lots of Jews on the east coast, so it's definitely possible she'd know.

 

[The Ref]

"Livia - what you don't know could fill a book".

 

[boubucarow]

My wife re-watched the entire series over the last month. Tremendous. I have yet to watch the Wire but so far only Mad Men & Breaking Bad compare to Sopranos for me.

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

 

[Nipsey]

My wife re-watched the entire series over the last month. Tremendous. I have yet to watch the Wire but so far only Mad Men & Breaking Bad compare to Sopranos for me.

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Why would Chase end the series like that? Tony's a mob boss. That he has to look over his shoulder all the time goes without saying. There are dozens of clues in the last season/final episode that he's killed. The obvious one is the shot that follows members only jacket into the bathroom. Camera follows the guy and moves with him to show where the bathroom is with Tony in the foreground. Tony never sees it coming. He's focused on the front door.

http://youtu.be/rnT7nYbCSvM?t=3m48s

why would Chase show members only guy entering like this?

http://youtu.be/rnT7nYbCSvM?t=2m12s

 

[Joe McGee]

My wife re-watched the entire series over the last month. Tremendous. I have yet to watch the Wire but so far only Mad Men & Breaking Bad compare to Sopranos for me.

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Why would Chase end the series like that? Tony's a mob boss. That he has to look over his shoulder all the time goes without saying. There are dozens of clues in the last season/final episode that he's killed. The obvious one is the shot that follows members only jacket into the bathroom. Camera follows the guy and moves with him to show where the bathroom is with Tony in the foreground. Tony never sees it coming. He's focused on the front door.

http://youtu.be/rnT7nYbCSvM?t=3m48s

why would Chase show members only guy entering like this?

http://youtu.be/rnT7nYbCSvM?t=2m12s

This. Plus the last episode opens on a darkened tight shot of Tony's sleeping face like he's in a casket. The radio comes on playing organ music and Tony sits up where a big gun is behind him. Quite a bit of symbolism there, plus the only other episode where Tony is shot is titled Members Only.

Members Only guy did it.

 

[Ghost Rider]

And don't forget that a guy wearing a Member's Only jacket in that episode (Eugene) killed a gun in a diner whose initials were T.S. That was not a coincidence.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

My wife re-watched the entire series over the last month. Tremendous. I have yet to watch the Wire but so far only Mad Men & Breaking Bad compare to Sopranos for me.

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Why would Chase end the series like that? Tony's a mob boss. That he has to look over his shoulder all the time goes without saying. There are dozens of clues in the last season/final episode that he's killed. The obvious one is the shot that follows members only jacket into the bathroom. Camera follows the guy and moves with him to show where the bathroom is with Tony in the foreground. Tony never sees it coming. He's focused on the front door.

http://youtu.be/rnT7nYbCSvM?t=3m48s

why would Chase show members only guy entering like this?

http://youtu.be/rnT7nYbCSvM?t=2m12s

This. Plus the last episode opens on a darkened tight shot of Tony's sleeping face like he's in a casket. The radio comes on playing organ music and Tony sits up where a big gun is behind him. Quite a bit of symbolism there, plus the only other episode where Tony is shot is titled Members Only.

Members Only guy did it.

He got clipped.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/06/15/us-sopranos-idUSN0644006120070615?pageNumber=1

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20042147,00.html

 

[Long Ball Larry]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

 

[Nipsey]

The more I watch the more I'm convinced Patsy is complicit in Tony's death and becomes boss after Tony's gone. Paulie being put in charge of the Cifaretto crew being the last straw.

 

[boubucarow]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

We, the viewer, don't get to see what happens next. We are eliminated from the equation while the Soprano's life continues (for as long as that may be).

I understand all of the POV, Members Only, etc... connections that indicate Tony's death. But I think we, the viewer, don't get to see his end. We get a snapshot into his POV that heightens our concerns for (or desire to end) his life. We get to see a threat. But we get nothing.

I think what it actually became (and Chase didn't want to happen IMO) is everybody sees what they wanted to see (or feared seeing) in the end.

 

[Nipsey]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

We, the viewer, don't get to see what happens next. We are eliminated from the equation while the Soprano's life continues (for as long as that may be).

I understand all of the POV, Members Only, etc... connections that indicate Tony's death. But I think we, the viewer, don't get to see his end. We get a snapshot into his POV that heightens our concerns for (or desire to end) his life. We get to see a threat. But we get nothing.

I think what it actually became is everybody sees what they wanted to see (or feared seeing) in the end.

Why the quick cut to black with no music? Only episode of the series with no music over the credits. Chase wanted something like 3 full minutes of black screen before the credits rolled and was nixed by HBO.

 

[RUSF18]

Chase ####ed up the ending. No way around it.

 

[RUSF18]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

We, the viewer, don't get to see what happens next. We are eliminated from the equation while the Soprano's life continues (for as long as that may be).

I understand all of the POV, Members Only, etc... connections that indicate Tony's death. But I think we, the viewer, don't get to see his end. We get a snapshot into his POV that heightens our concerns for (or desire to end) his life. We get to see a threat. But we get nothing.

I think what it actually became is everybody sees what they wanted to see (or feared seeing) in the end.

Why the quick cut to black with no music? Only episode of the series with no music over the credits. Chase wanted something like 3 full minutes of black screen before the credits rolled and was nixed by HBO.

Because he had no respect for the audience who, in his mind, loved Tony in a way that he never intended to show.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Chase ####ed up the ending. No way around it.

If one of his goals of the ending as shot was extended legacy in the form of discussions years later, he got that part right.

 

[boubucarow]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

We, the viewer, don't get to see what happens next. We are eliminated from the equation while the Soprano's life continues (for as long as that may be).

I understand all of the POV, Members Only, etc... connections that indicate Tony's death. But I think we, the viewer, don't get to see his end. We get a snapshot into his POV that heightens our concerns for (or desire to end) his life. We get to see a threat. But we get nothing.

I think what it actually became is everybody sees what they wanted to see (or feared seeing) in the end.

Why the quick cut to black with no music? Only episode of the series with no music over the credits. Chase wanted something like 3 full minutes of black screen before the credits rolled and was nixed by HBO.

The quick cut to black with no music is just as easily IMO our abrupt exit from his life as it is the end of his life.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

We, the viewer, don't get to see what happens next. We are eliminated from the equation while the Soprano's life continues (for as long as that may be).

I understand all of the POV, Members Only, etc... connections that indicate Tony's death. But I think we, the viewer, don't get to see his end. We get a snapshot into his POV that heightens our concerns for (or desire to end) his life. We get to see a threat. But we get nothing.

I think what it actually became (and Chase didn't want to happen IMO) is everybody sees what they wanted to see (or feared seeing) in the end.

I've never heard anybody discuss this before.

 

[boubucarow]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

We, the viewer, don't get to see what happens next. We are eliminated from the equation while the Soprano's life continues (for as long as that may be).

I understand all of the POV, Members Only, etc... connections that indicate Tony's death. But I think we, the viewer, don't get to see his end. We get a snapshot into his POV that heightens our concerns for (or desire to end) his life. We get to see a threat. But we get nothing.

I think what it actually became (and Chase didn't want to happen IMO) is everybody sees what they wanted to see (or feared seeing) in the end.

I've never heard anybody discuss this before.

I have never really looked up explanations until recently. My wife believes he dies as well. Most of the arguments for his death concern the clues mentioned above and the establishment of camera work from Tony's POV that show he did not notice "Members Only". He was too comfortable and let his guard down. The quick cut to nothing comes right when the camera should have shown us what Tony saw (as established by the previous order of bell ring, Tony, his POV). We see what Tony sees. Nothing because he is dead.

 

[NewlyRetired]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

We, the viewer, don't get to see what happens next. We are eliminated from the equation while the Soprano's life continues (for as long as that may be).

I understand all of the POV, Members Only, etc... connections that indicate Tony's death. But I think we, the viewer, don't get to see his end. We get a snapshot into his POV that heightens our concerns for (or desire to end) his life. We get to see a threat. But we get nothing.

I think what it actually became (and Chase didn't want to happen IMO) is everybody sees what they wanted to see (or feared seeing) in the end.

I've never heard anybody discuss this before.

I have never really looked up explanations until recently. My wife believes he dies as well. Most of the arguments for his death concern the clues mentioned above and the establishment of camera work from Tony's POV that show he did not notice "Members Only". He was too comfortable and let his guard down. The quick cut to nothing comes right when the camera should have shown us what Tony saw (as established by the previous order of bell ring, Tony, his POV). We see what Tony sees. Nothing because he is dead.

If you get a chance to have an extra extra extra long dump some day and want to read the most detailed answer available to this question, give this a shot.

http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/

 

[Nipsey]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

We, the viewer, don't get to see what happens next. We are eliminated from the equation while the Soprano's life continues (for as long as that may be).

I understand all of the POV, Members Only, etc... connections that indicate Tony's death. But I think we, the viewer, don't get to see his end. We get a snapshot into his POV that heightens our concerns for (or desire to end) his life. We get to see a threat. But we get nothing.

I think what it actually became is everybody sees what they wanted to see (or feared seeing) in the end.

Why the quick cut to black with no music? Only episode of the series with no music over the credits. Chase wanted something like 3 full minutes of black screen before the credits rolled and was nixed by HBO.

The quick cut to black with no music is just as easily IMO our abrupt exit from his life as it is the end of his life.

Why would Chase choose to convey to an abrupt end between Tony and the audience?

 

[boubucarow]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

We, the viewer, don't get to see what happens next. We are eliminated from the equation while the Soprano's life continues (for as long as that may be).

I understand all of the POV, Members Only, etc... connections that indicate Tony's death. But I think we, the viewer, don't get to see his end. We get a snapshot into his POV that heightens our concerns for (or desire to end) his life. We get to see a threat. But we get nothing.

I think what it actually became is everybody sees what they wanted to see (or feared seeing) in the end.

Why the quick cut to black with no music? Only episode of the series with no music over the credits. Chase wanted something like 3 full minutes of black screen before the credits rolled and was nixed by HBO.

The quick cut to black with no music is just as easily IMO our abrupt exit from his life as it is the end of his life.

Why would Chase choose to convey to an abrupt end between Tony and the audience?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/sopranos-david-chase_n_2317801.html

David Chase:

There was something else I was saying that was more important than whether Tony Soprano lived or died. About the fragility of all of it. The whole show had been about time in a way, and the time allotted on this Earth. That whole trip out to California was all about that – what people called a dream sequence. And all the dream sequences within the show. Tony was dealing in mortality every day. He was dishing out life and death. And he was not happy. He was getting everything he wanted, that guy, but he wasn't happy. All I wanted to do was present the idea of how short life is and how precious it is. The only way I felt I could do that was to rip it away. And I think people did get it. It made them upset emotionally, but intellectually they didn't follow it. And that could very well be bad execution.

Did Tony die or didn't he die? Well, first of all, it really comes down to this: There was, what, six seasons of that show? Seven? Am I supposed to do a scene and ending where it shows that crime doesn't pay? Well, we saw that crime pays. We've been seeing that for how many years? Now, in another sense, we saw that crime didn't pay because it wasn't making him happy. He was an extremely isolated, unhappy man. And then finally, once in a while he would make a connection with his family and be happy there. But in this case, whatever happened, we never got to see the result of that. It was torn away from him and from us.

 

[boubucarow]

I don't really care if anyone thinks my interpretation is wrong. And I don't care what the creator wanted it to be. I have conversations to learn what everyone else thinks because I respect other interpretations (and what the creator was trying to do). However, my initial take will always be there and was my takeaway. Any show, movie, book, song, etc... is very personal and people take what they will out of it.

 

[Nipsey]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

We, the viewer, don't get to see what happens next. We are eliminated from the equation while the Soprano's life continues (for as long as that may be).

I understand all of the POV, Members Only, etc... connections that indicate Tony's death. But I think we, the viewer, don't get to see his end. We get a snapshot into his POV that heightens our concerns for (or desire to end) his life. We get to see a threat. But we get nothing.

I think what it actually became is everybody sees what they wanted to see (or feared seeing) in the end.

Why the quick cut to black with no music? Only episode of the series with no music over the credits. Chase wanted something like 3 full minutes of black screen before the credits rolled and was nixed by HBO.

The quick cut to black with no music is just as easily IMO our abrupt exit from his life as it is the end of his life.

Why would Chase choose to convey to an abrupt end between Tony and the audience?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/sopranos-david-chase_n_2317801.html

David Chase:

There was something else I was saying that was more important than whether Tony Soprano lived or died. About the fragility of all of it. The whole show had been about time in a way, and the time allotted on this Earth. That whole trip out to California was all about that – what people called a dream sequence. And all the dream sequences within the show. Tony was dealing in mortality every day. He was dishing out life and death. And he was not happy. He was getting everything he wanted, that guy, but he wasn't happy. All I wanted to do was present the idea of how short life is and how precious it is. The only way I felt I could do that was to rip it away. And I think people did get it. It made them upset emotionally, but intellectually they didn't follow it. And that could very well be bad execution.

Did Tony die or didn't he die? Well, first of all, it really comes down to this: There was, what, six seasons of that show? Seven? Am I supposed to do a scene and ending where it shows that crime doesn't pay? Well, we saw that crime pays. We've been seeing that for how many years? Now, in another sense, we saw that crime didn't pay because it wasn't making him happy. He was an extremely isolated, unhappy man. And then finally, once in a while he would make a connection with his family and be happy there. But in this case, whatever happened, we never got to see the result of that. It was torn away from him and from us.

Right. Because Tony died.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

We, the viewer, don't get to see what happens next. We are eliminated from the equation while the Soprano's life continues (for as long as that may be).

I understand all of the POV, Members Only, etc... connections that indicate Tony's death. But I think we, the viewer, don't get to see his end. We get a snapshot into his POV that heightens our concerns for (or desire to end) his life. We get to see a threat. But we get nothing.

I think what it actually became is everybody sees what they wanted to see (or feared seeing) in the end.

Why the quick cut to black with no music? Only episode of the series with no music over the credits. Chase wanted something like 3 full minutes of black screen before the credits rolled and was nixed by HBO.

The quick cut to black with no music is just as easily IMO our abrupt exit from his life as it is the end of his life.

Why would Chase choose to convey to an abrupt end between Tony and the audience?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/sopranos-david-chase_n_2317801.html

David Chase:

There was something else I was saying that was more important than whether Tony Soprano lived or died. About the fragility of all of it. The whole show had been about time in a way, and the time allotted on this Earth. That whole trip out to California was all about that – what people called a dream sequence. And all the dream sequences within the show. Tony was dealing in mortality every day. He was dishing out life and death. And he was not happy. He was getting everything he wanted, that guy, but he wasn't happy. All I wanted to do was present the idea of how short life is and how precious it is. The only way I felt I could do that was to rip it away. And I think people did get it. It made them upset emotionally, but intellectually they didn't follow it. And that could very well be bad execution.

Did Tony die or didn't he die? Well, first of all, it really comes down to this: There was, what, six seasons of that show? Seven? Am I supposed to do a scene and ending where it shows that crime doesn't pay? Well, we saw that crime pays. We've been seeing that for how many years? Now, in another sense, we saw that crime didn't pay because it wasn't making him happy. He was an extremely isolated, unhappy man. And then finally, once in a while he would make a connection with his family and be happy there. But in this case, whatever happened, we never got to see the result of that. It was torn away from him and from us.

Right. Because Tony died.

Chase saying "whatever happened" implies that it's up for interpretation. Now that Gandolfini is dead though, and there is 100% no sequel, it would be convenient for all to just say he died in the diner.

 

[boubucarow]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

We, the viewer, don't get to see what happens next. We are eliminated from the equation while the Soprano's life continues (for as long as that may be).

I understand all of the POV, Members Only, etc... connections that indicate Tony's death. But I think we, the viewer, don't get to see his end. We get a snapshot into his POV that heightens our concerns for (or desire to end) his life. We get to see a threat. But we get nothing.

I think what it actually became is everybody sees what they wanted to see (or feared seeing) in the end.

Why the quick cut to black with no music? Only episode of the series with no music over the credits. Chase wanted something like 3 full minutes of black screen before the credits rolled and was nixed by HBO.

The quick cut to black with no music is just as easily IMO our abrupt exit from his life as it is the end of his life.

Why would Chase choose to convey to an abrupt end between Tony and the audience?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/sopranos-david-chase_n_2317801.html

David Chase:

There was something else I was saying that was more important than whether Tony Soprano lived or died. About the fragility of all of it. The whole show had been about time in a way, and the time allotted on this Earth. That whole trip out to California was all about that – what people called a dream sequence. And all the dream sequences within the show. Tony was dealing in mortality every day. He was dishing out life and death. And he was not happy. He was getting everything he wanted, that guy, but he wasn't happy. All I wanted to do was present the idea of how short life is and how precious it is. The only way I felt I could do that was to rip it away. And I think people did get it. It made them upset emotionally, but intellectually they didn't follow it. And that could very well be bad execution.

Did Tony die or didn't he die? Well, first of all, it really comes down to this: There was, what, six seasons of that show? Seven? Am I supposed to do a scene and ending where it shows that crime doesn't pay? Well, we saw that crime pays. We've been seeing that for how many years? Now, in another sense, we saw that crime didn't pay because it wasn't making him happy. He was an extremely isolated, unhappy man. And then finally, once in a while he would make a connection with his family and be happy there. But in this case, whatever happened, we never got to see the result of that. It was torn away from him and from us.

Right. Because Tony died.

Or... We never got to see the result of "does crime pay" because the show ends. There is no answer. There is no finality. For Tony or us.

 

[Nipsey]

I don't really care if anyone thinks my interpretation is wrong. And I don't care what the creator wanted it to be. I have conversations to learn what everyone else thinks because I respect other interpretations (and what the creator was trying to do). However, my initial take will always be there and was my takeaway. Any show, movie, book, song, etc... is very personal and people take what they will out of it.

I hear you and I agree but in this case Chase leaves so many clues as to Tony's fate. The only thing he doesn't show is the bullet blowing Tony's brains all over Holsten's (because the viewer got to experience Tony's death as he did). I always had the thought if I was even a decent artist I'd make a painting showing the moment of Tony's death from just behind him facing the front door. The back of his head with a gun and arm in a member's only jacket just to the right, Carmella and AJ directly in front of him with Meadow in the background just coming in the door. Chase couldn't have shown the direct aftermath of the shooting. I guess he could have but it wouldn't nearly have the power it does now (and he couldn't have made the statement about his take on the finality of death).

 

[Nipsey]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

We, the viewer, don't get to see what happens next. We are eliminated from the equation while the Soprano's life continues (for as long as that may be).

I understand all of the POV, Members Only, etc... connections that indicate Tony's death. But I think we, the viewer, don't get to see his end. We get a snapshot into his POV that heightens our concerns for (or desire to end) his life. We get to see a threat. But we get nothing.

I think what it actually became is everybody sees what they wanted to see (or feared seeing) in the end.

Why the quick cut to black with no music? Only episode of the series with no music over the credits. Chase wanted something like 3 full minutes of black screen before the credits rolled and was nixed by HBO.

The quick cut to black with no music is just as easily IMO our abrupt exit from his life as it is the end of his life.

Why would Chase choose to convey to an abrupt end between Tony and the audience?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/sopranos-david-chase_n_2317801.html

David Chase:

There was something else I was saying that was more important than whether Tony Soprano lived or died. About the fragility of all of it. The whole show had been about time in a way, and the time allotted on this Earth. That whole trip out to California was all about that – what people called a dream sequence. And all the dream sequences within the show. Tony was dealing in mortality every day. He was dishing out life and death. And he was not happy. He was getting everything he wanted, that guy, but he wasn't happy. All I wanted to do was present the idea of how short life is and how precious it is. The only way I felt I could do that was to rip it away. And I think people did get it. It made them upset emotionally, but intellectually they didn't follow it. And that could very well be bad execution.

Did Tony die or didn't he die? Well, first of all, it really comes down to this: There was, what, six seasons of that show? Seven? Am I supposed to do a scene and ending where it shows that crime doesn't pay? Well, we saw that crime pays. We've been seeing that for how many years? Now, in another sense, we saw that crime didn't pay because it wasn't making him happy. He was an extremely isolated, unhappy man. And then finally, once in a while he would make a connection with his family and be happy there. But in this case, whatever happened, we never got to see the result of that. It was torn away from him and from us.

Right. Because Tony died.

Chase saying "whatever happened" implies that it's up for interpretation. Now that Gandolfini is dead though, and there is 100% no sequel, it would be convenient for all to just say he died in the diner.

Chase is saying "whatever happened" because he's on record as saying if he explains the ending it'll diminish it. There are some things about the show that are up for interpretation but Tony's fate is not one of them.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I don't really care if anyone thinks my interpretation is wrong. And I don't care what the creator wanted it to be. I have conversations to learn what everyone else thinks because I respect other interpretations (and what the creator was trying to do). However, my initial take will always be there and was my takeaway. Any show, movie, book, song, etc... is very personal and people take what they will out of it.

did you read the link I sent you with the long detailed explanation of how the end was explained throughout season 6?

 

[Nipsey]

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Not sure what you mean.

We, the viewer, don't get to see what happens next. We are eliminated from the equation while the Soprano's life continues (for as long as that may be).

I understand all of the POV, Members Only, etc... connections that indicate Tony's death. But I think we, the viewer, don't get to see his end. We get a snapshot into his POV that heightens our concerns for (or desire to end) his life. We get to see a threat. But we get nothing.

I think what it actually became is everybody sees what they wanted to see (or feared seeing) in the end.

Why the quick cut to black with no music? Only episode of the series with no music over the credits. Chase wanted something like 3 full minutes of black screen before the credits rolled and was nixed by HBO.

The quick cut to black with no music is just as easily IMO our abrupt exit from his life as it is the end of his life.

Why would Chase choose to convey to an abrupt end between Tony and the audience?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/sopranos-david-chase_n_2317801.html

David Chase:

There was something else I was saying that was more important than whether Tony Soprano lived or died. About the fragility of all of it. The whole show had been about time in a way, and the time allotted on this Earth. That whole trip out to California was all about that – what people called a dream sequence. And all the dream sequences within the show. Tony was dealing in mortality every day. He was dishing out life and death. And he was not happy. He was getting everything he wanted, that guy, but he wasn't happy. All I wanted to do was present the idea of how short life is and how precious it is. The only way I felt I could do that was to rip it away. And I think people did get it. It made them upset emotionally, but intellectually they didn't follow it. And that could very well be bad execution.

Did Tony die or didn't he die? Well, first of all, it really comes down to this: There was, what, six seasons of that show? Seven? Am I supposed to do a scene and ending where it shows that crime doesn't pay? Well, we saw that crime pays. We've been seeing that for how many years? Now, in another sense, we saw that crime didn't pay because it wasn't making him happy. He was an extremely isolated, unhappy man. And then finally, once in a while he would make a connection with his family and be happy there. But in this case, whatever happened, we never got to see the result of that. It was torn away from him and from us.

Right. Because Tony died.

Or... We never got to see the result of "does crime pay" because the show ends. There is no answer. There is no finality. For Tony or us.

Chase deserves more credit than this. It's one of the best written shows of all-time.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Chase is saying "whatever happened" because he's on record as saying if he explains the ending it'll diminish it. There are some things about the show that are up for interpretation but Tony's fate is not one of them.

How is it not open to interpretation? Those saying he is dead are 100% interpreting that based on cinematic choices and not the story. If Chase wasn't leaving it open to interpretation, he can say what his intent was.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Chase deserves more credit than this. It's one of the best written shows of all-time.

It actually diminished to me upon re-watch.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Richard Belzer: I was working with Steve Schirripa [bacala] recently. We were judging “Last Coming Standing” for NBC and we were talking about a lot of things and he was saying he heard all of these theories for the show that had nothing to do with your intention and wasn’t anything the actors thought. Like little hints along the way, like a word, like when Tony and Steve are on the boat at the lake and they say “‘you never know its gonna happen” or “you never know its gonna hit you”

David Chase: That was part of the ending.

Richard Belzer: Oh, it was? see, what do I know? Were there other things in previous episodes that were hints towards it?

David Chase: There was that and there was a shooting in which Silvio was a witness. Well he wasn’t a witness, he was eating dinner with a couple of hookers and with some other guy who got hit and there was some visual stuff that went on there which sort of amplified Tony’s remark to Bacala about you know “you don’t know its happened” or “you won’t know it happened when it hits you”. That’s about it.

 

[boubucarow]

I don't really care if anyone thinks my interpretation is wrong. And I don't care what the creator wanted it to be. I have conversations to learn what everyone else thinks because I respect other interpretations (and what the creator was trying to do). However, my initial take will always be there and was my takeaway. Any show, movie, book, song, etc... is very personal and people take what they will out of it.

did you read the link I sent you with the long detailed explanation of how the end was explained throughout season 6?

I started. Very long but very interesting.

 

[Nipsey]

Chase is saying "whatever happened" because he's on record as saying if he explains the ending it'll diminish it. There are some things about the show that are up for interpretation but Tony's fate is not one of them.

How is it not open to interpretation? Those saying he is dead are 100% interpreting that based on cinematic choices and not the story. If Chase wasn't leaving it open to interpretation, he can say what his intent was.

He's said he doesn't want to explain what his intent was because he feels his words will diminish his work.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Not sure how anyone can read that long article and not come to any other conclusion.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Richard Belzer: I was working with Steve Schirripa [bacala] recently. We were judging “Last Coming Standing” for NBC and we were talking about a lot of things and he was saying he heard all of these theories for the show that had nothing to do with your intention and wasn’t anything the actors thought. Like little hints along the way, like a word, like when Tony and Steve are on the boat at the lake and they say “‘you never know its gonna happen” or “you never know its gonna hit you”

David Chase: That was part of the ending.

Richard Belzer: Oh, it was? see, what do I know? Were there other things in previous episodes that were hints towards it?

David Chase: There was that and there was a shooting in which Silvio was a witness. Well he wasn’t a witness, he was eating dinner with a couple of hookers and with some other guy who got hit and there was some visual stuff that went on there which sort of amplified Tony’s remark to Bacala about you know “you don’t know its happened” or “you won’t know it happened when it hits you”. That’s about it.

It'd be nice if David Chase actually knew what the quote was. It's "you probably don't even hear it when it happens"

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Not sure how anyone can read that long article and not come to any other conclusion.

It reads like the 9/11 conspiracy theories.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Not sure how anyone can read that long article and not come to any other conclusion.

It reads like the 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Look at the quotes at the end from Chase.

 

[Sarnoff]

Not sure how anyone can read that long article and not come to any other conclusion.

There's an equally long article about how the briefcase in Pulp Fiction contains Marcellus Wallace's soul, including the secret meaning of the Band-Aid on the back of his head, which is complete horse####.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Not sure how anyone can read that long article and not come to any other conclusion.

There's an equally long article about how the briefcase in Pulp Fiction contains Marcellus Wallace's soul, including the secret meaning of the Band-Aid on the back of his head, which is complete horse####.

See above.

 

[jdoggydogg]

My wife re-watched the entire series over the last month. Tremendous. I have yet to watch the Wire but so far only Mad Men & Breaking Bad compare to Sopranos for me.

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Why would Chase end the series like that?

Why wouldn't he? This assumption that Tony's definitely dead is just an assumption.

 

[jdoggydogg]

Chase ####ed up the ending. No way around it.

No. The ending is perfect.

 

[jdoggydogg]

I understand the need for finality. The open-ended finale doesn't satisfy the need for closure.

But this end is far more interesting than seeing Tony get whacked. And don't read too much into what Chase says. There's a principle wherein reading too much into art presumes you know the answer, and it presumes the artist knows the answer.

 

[Nipsey]

My wife re-watched the entire series over the last month. Tremendous. I have yet to watch the Wire but so far only Mad Men & Breaking Bad compare to Sopranos for me.

As for the finale, my take is that Tony will never be able to enjoy his life. Whether the guy in the USA hat, the over-interested guy going to the bathroom, or the two black guys, everyone is a potential threat to take his life. He didn't die or live. It ended before what might have happened in that moment happened (including another family blow-up or a nice evening together). That uneasiness about everything in his life for 6 seasons is his life.

Why would Chase end the series like that?

Why wouldn't he? This assumption that Tony's definitely dead is just an assumption.

Because it would be really, really weak and unnecessary. It goes without saying that a mob boss is going to be uneasy.

 

[RBM]

I understand the need for finality. The open-ended finale doesn't satisfy the need for closure.

But this end is far more interesting than seeing Tony get whacked.

No it isn't. Not even remotely close.

It's prob my favorite hour drama ever, and I'm fine admitting the ending was a complete pile of horse ####.