'01 Pats - dominant team or Brady Magic? (1 Viewer)

[Marc Levin]

Any comments welcome

Regular Season record: 11-5

9 game winning streak to close the season and win their 3 playoff games, 14-3 after Brady took over

For easy reference:

http://pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe2001.htm

 

[Phlash]

That whole team never dominated - they always found a way to win at the end of every game. It was crazy.

 

[The Ref]

I am as big a pats fan as it gets, and they were very avg team tallent wise.

Probably one of the best coached games ever in the 2001 SB.

 

[Marc Levin]

from the other thread, to get that discussion moved here:

Good call. I didn't wanted to turn this into a Brady/Montana debate, but it looks like I got sucked in anyway. caught. Fixed

Not at all. If you seriously think the '01 Patriots were dominant, well... you have a lot more to learn about football than I care to teach you in this thread. And I'm a Patriots fan saying this.

As I recall, they barely made it to the S.B. and were supposed to get their butts handed to them by whoever represented the NFC. Specifically, they had no shot v. St Lou - I think St Lou was a huge favorite in the game.

The point spread has nothing to do with the fact that the Patriots were 14-3 with Brady and had the 5th ranked offense in the NFL, along with the 6th ranked defense in the NFL that year.That point spread was a reflection of the fact that nobody knew anything about an untested Tom Brady starting in his first year...and the Rams having just won the Super Bowl a year earlier ('99). Combined with the fact that the Rams were averging over 30 points per game that year as the #1 ranked offense in the NFL (7th ranked D as well).

Probably the closest thing to Brady and the Patriots previous to then was when Parcells Giants were 7 point underdogs to Buffalo with Jeff Hostetler. Although the situations were basically reversed in that the Giants had previously recently won a Super Bowl, ala the Rams. The Giants also went through the tougher conference and games to get there. Thus the lower point spread.

Bottom line, Super Bowl point spreads don't determine whether or not a team is dominant...history does.

I understand that, but they were not necessarily a "dominant" team.The Steelers had the #6 offense and #3 defense.

The Packers were top 5 in both categories

The Eagles were #9 offense, #2 defense.

There were a bunch of teams that were solid on both sides of the ball that year. Looking deeper into the numbers shows the Pats were bottom third in passing o, and bottom third in yards per rush. While they were #6 in scoring D, their defensive numbers in yardage were actually not good at all.

Regardless - let's move this discussion to the thread dedicated to it.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

After their first two games, I remember thinking they were literally the worst team I ever saw and I thought they might be 0-16.

They were not dominant and they were very lucky, but Tom Brady is the QB of his generation and a hell of a champion and champions make their own luck.

But that said, that was a fumble.

 

[radballs]

I know Phlash has man love for Brady, but the '01 team was definitely about the defense and the coaching staff. Yes, Brady was calm, cool, and collective but he was nowhere near a difference maker. He showed that the following year when he wasn't able to lead them to the playoffs, right? Brady was nothing more than what Dilfer was for the Ravens the year before (is that the right year?).

 

[Marc Levin]

radballs, is that still true? i think brady emerged the last two years as a guy who can put the team on his shoulders when necessary

 

[radballs]

And if Vinatieri missed a couple of those three or four clutch kicks (except for one SB), we're not talking about a Patriot dynasty but about a Buffalo Bills choking redux.

 

[radballs]

radballs, is that still true? i think brady emerged the last two years as a guy who can put the team on his shoulders when necessary

I agree with this to a certain extent, but I think Brady has been EXTREMELY fortunate to have the opportunities that he's had at this early point in his career. He's starting to exhibit those attributes that lead to epic QB legends like Marino, Elway, Montana, et al. and I think he's going to be a great one. But, he's been prematurely crowned one of the best before his time. Up to this point, non Super Bowl winners like Marino, Fouts, and maybe a couple others had better careers if he quit tomorrow. A lot of people put a TON of emphasis on SB victories, but Warren Moon's lifetime accomplishments are still more impressive AT THIS POINT than what Brady (and his luck to be on a great team) has done to this point. He'll be able to pretty much coast the next 8-10 years though without another playoff victory and still be HOF bound. Brady is a great, modern day QB but he is grossly overrated imo about his relevance to the recent Patriots SB victories. He's improving and I think a better player now, but he's set the bar so high that he could end up being a much better QB than he was 5 years ago (and I believe he is by a lot), but just like he got too much credit for that first SB win, he won't get enough for phenomenal play that only leads them to a 6-10 record (and the like) in 2007 and beyond.

 

[Phlash]

I know Phlash has man love for Brady, but the '01 team was definitely about the defense and the coaching staff. Yes, Brady was calm, cool, and collective but he was nowhere near a difference maker. He showed that the following year when he wasn't able to lead them to the playoffs, right? Brady was nothing more than what Dilfer was for the Ravens the year before (is that the right year?).

Hey, I may have some man love for Brady but what Patriots fan doesn't? I agree though, the '01 team was all about the defense and the offense was all about Brady/Antowain Smith/Troy Brown. Those 3 guys (and all the defensive TDs) were the reason that the Patriots had the #6 scoring offense and #6 scoring defense despite being ranked at #19 for offense and #24 for defense.And the AFC East that season was insane. Patriots 11-5, Dolphins 11-5, NY Jets 10-6, and the Colts with Peyton and Dominc Rhodes on his great rookie season. The Bills, however, were just bad

 

[radballs]

And here I was never sure if Phlash was a guy, or just the gal in his avatar that has a butt on here chest. lol

I like finding holes in the games of Brady and the Pats, but that's mostly residual anger and frustration over the snow bowl as a Raiders fan.

 

[Phlash]

And here I was never sure if Phlash was a guy, or just the gal in his avatar that has a butt on here chest. lolI like finding holes in the games of Brady and the Pats, but that's mostly residual anger and frustration over the snow bowl as a Raiders fan.

Yeah, it was probably a fumble. Caused by Charles Woodson striking Brady in the face with his arm which was a missed 'blow to the head' penalty anyways

 

[radballs]

Well, you guys won the game but Vinatieri was no doubt the MVP of that game. That was one of the all time greatest kicks given the time during the game that the last kick was made, the importance of the game, and the weather and game conditions.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Brady's stats have been pretty consistent since he took over in NE. With those similar numbers the Patriots have been a Super Bowl Champion, a team that missed the playoffs, and a playoff team that missed the Super Bowl.

There is ONE thing in common with the Patriots three Super Bowl years. Since Brady took over, those three years were the three years where the NE defense ranked the highest (by quite a bit). In the other non-Super Bowl years, the defense struggled.

 

[PatsWillWin]

The '01 Pats were not a dominating team.

That being said, the Patriots could not have won with just anyone under center (certainly not Drew Bledsoe). The "Brady Magic" was definately a huge factor as well - driving down the field with less than :90 seconds left to put Vinatieri in FG range is the definition of clutch - obviously holding the Rams to 17 points was the defense, but not any quarterback could've engineered that drive.

I laugh when I hear people say things like "Well if they'd missed a kick here" and other things like that - you could do that to almost any Super Bowl Champion in any given year. It's really not a factor.

Brady did not carry the team in 2001, but he did an amazing job stepping up in spots when it was needed. That, in addition to the bend but don't break defense is what won them 2001.

 

[mookiewils]

And if Vinatieri missed a couple of those three or four clutch kicks (except for one SB), we're not talking about a Patriot dynasty but about a Buffalo Bills choking redux.

Vinatieri is clutch, however the score was tied in the SuperBowl against the Rams and Panthers when he made his kicks. If he missed them they wouldn't have necessarily lost. It wasn't a do or die scenario, it's possible if he missed them the Pats could have won the games in overtime.

 

[PatsWillWin]

And if Vinatieri missed a couple of those three or four clutch kicks (except for one SB), we're not talking about a Patriot dynasty but about a Buffalo Bills choking redux.

Vinatieri is clutch, however the score was tied in the SuperBowl against the Rams and Panthers when he made his kicks. If he missed them they wouldn't have necessarily lost. It wasn't a do or die scenario, it's possible if he missed them the Pats could have won the games in overtime.

It's a stupid point anyways. You can do the "well if..." to every Super Bowl Champion. Clearly it is NE hate, nothing more.

 

[thesurfshop19]

And here I was never sure if Phlash was a guy, or just the gal in his avatar that has a butt on here chest. lolI like finding holes in the games of Brady and the Pats, but that's mostly residual anger and frustration over the snow bowl as a Raiders fan.

Yeah, it was probably a fumble. Caused by Charles Woodson striking Brady in the face with his arm which was a missed 'blow to the head' penalty anyways

If we play this game, doesn't that nullify Ty Law's INT for TD in the Super Bowl?

 

[Workhorse]

The one thing you need to keep in mind about Brady's success through much of the 2001 season is that Weis designed an offense based on putting Brady in a position to succeed: Lots of screens, dumpoffs, short slants, etc... Quick hits that kept Brady from having to do too much as an inexperienced QB. As Brady progressed, they opened up the offense more and more every game but for the most part, Brady wasn't asked to do all that much in the first Super Bowl year.

 

[Phlash]

The one thing you need to keep in mind about Brady's success through much of the 2001 season is that Weis designed an offense based on putting Brady in a position to succeed: Lots of screens, dumpoffs, short slants, etc... Quick hits that kept Brady from having to do too much as an inexperienced QB. As Brady progressed, they opened up the offense more and more every game but for the most part, Brady wasn't asked to do all that much in the first Super Bowl year.

Yeah and Roethlisberger only has to make one read a play but people were all over his jockstrap. Give me a break, Brady and Peyton do things other QBs wish they could a.k.a. go through many reads and work down a defense.

 

[Boston]

Let's remember one thing about who Brady was playing with as a first year starter...every skill position starter was a player who had been cut during his career (and we're not talking late in their career or salary cap cuts either). Patten, Troy, Wiggins and Antowain were all castoffs at one point in their career. We're not talking Rice-Taylor-Craig here. Can anyone even name the Pats third WR in 01? It really doesn't matter who the QB was that year they weren't going to be an offensive juggernaut.

As far as the 01 team goes they were not a dominant team. In fact they were the textbook example of an underdog. They had plenty of castoffs from other teams, guys who had been vastly underachieving under the Carroll regime and some young players that were too young to know they were underdogs. IMO this was BB's finest season as a coach. While winning in 04 without their starting CBs was very impressive it was in 01 where his coaching had the greatest impact. The combination of his gameplanning with a team that bought into his system and the fact that opponents didn't really respect them allowed them to take down some teams that were much more talented on paper. I really think the sight of the Pats being introduced as a team during the Super Bowl is the image that best shows what that team was all about.

As for Brady...the Pats don't win in 01 without him (I'm not saying he's THE reason they won it either because this was a total team effort). They were rudderless with Bledsoe. The kid brought stability to a position that was incredibbly erractic the previous seasons. He was by no means a gunslinger but he wasn't Trent Dilfer either. He was asked to win games and a perfect example was his performance in OT against the Raiders as well as the OT victory against San Diego which many point out as his coming out party. He's obviously a much better QB now than he was than but mentally he's always been a glue guy that his teammates believed in and was a huge factor in both the 01 team as well as future Patriot teams forging their identity.

 

[Workhorse]

The one thing you need to keep in mind about Brady's success through much of the 2001 season is that Weis designed an offense based on putting Brady in a position to succeed: Lots of screens, dumpoffs, short slants, etc... Quick hits that kept Brady from having to do too much as an inexperienced QB. As Brady progressed, they opened up the offense more and more every game but for the most part, Brady wasn't asked to do all that much in the first Super Bowl year.

Yeah and Roethlisberger only has to make one read a play but people were all over his jockstrap. Give me a break, Brady and Peyton do things other QBs wish they could a.k.a. go through many reads and work down a defense.

There is a world of difference between Brady circa 2006 and Brady in 2001. Hell, there was a huge difference between Brady against the Steelers on opening night of Gillette Stadium and the 2001 season. There is NO WAY that Weis would have allowed 2001 Tom Brady to go 5 wide all game.

 

[Ghost Rider]

And here I was never sure if Phlash was a guy, or just the gal in his avatar that has a butt on here chest. lolI like finding holes in the games of Brady and the Pats, but that's mostly residual anger and frustration over the snow bowl as a Raiders fan.

Yeah, it was probably a fumble. Caused by Charles Woodson striking Brady in the face with his arm which was a missed 'blow to the head' penalty anyways

If we play this game, doesn't that nullify Ty Law's INT for TD in the Super Bowl?

Hah, yeah, I know several Boston homers who even admit that that should have been a personal foul for the defender hitting Warner across the face while he threw the ball that was intercepted and returned for a TD. Having said that, the '01 Patriots were not a dominant team. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[RBM]

More like Bellicheck magic

 

[pats3in4]

The 2001 Pats finished strong defensively down the stretch (did not give up more than 17pts in any of the last 9 games played...all wins). In the playoffs, they...

1. Beat the Raiders by making an insane amount of plays when needed. Everyone remembers the tuck, but people forget the plays before and after. Prior to the tuck, the Raiders had 3rd-and-1. A first down and the game is over. Richard Seymour stuffs Crockett (who was a short-yardage stud that year) and the Raiders punt away. After the tuck, the Raiders still stopped the Pats, but then Vinatieri made that 45yd FG...arguably the most amazing kick ever...to tie the game. In OT, the Pats converted a 4th down to set up the game winner. Brady was 8-for-8 in OT. If any mistakes were made in the 4th quarter or OT, the Pats don't win that game. Kudos goes to the coaching staff for taking off Brady's reigns that he'd been wearing for the bulk of the season, especially down the stretch.

2. Beat the Steelers by selling out to stop the run and dare Kordell to beat them, and capitalize on the already proven shaky Steelers special teams. The Pats suspected that Kordell couldn't beat them and they were right. The Pats also knew the Steelers had punt coverage problems and capitalized with an early Troy Brown punt return TD. The shaky Kris Brown getting a FG blocked and returned for a TD was icing on the cake. The Pats came out passing, but in the end it didn't matter since the special teams provided enough scoring to win.

3. Beat the Rams by employing a completely opposite gameplan to the one used vs. Pittsburgh - run on O and sell out to stop the pass - and some clutch play by Brady. Even as a Pats fan, I'm not sure how SB36 would have turned out if Martz wasn't so damn stubborn and instead ran the ball like he did vs. Philly in the NFCCG. But he didn't and this is why SB36 is one of the biggest coaching mismatches in SB history. I think it's also important to note that despite Kurt Warner's good stats that year, the Rams were very sloppy with the ball all year...lots of turnovers...and the Pats were counting on this. They were right, as the Pats won the turnover battle 3-0. The Pats were content to play a game of field position...drive far enough to pin the Rams deep...and play bend-but-don't-break until the Rams turned it over. It was effective for 3+ quarters until the D finally snapped in the 4th quarter. Then it was Brady time when needed the most, with a big assist from Adam V.

The 2001 Pats were hardly dominant. Instead, they were superbly coached by someone who wasn't afraid to change gameplans *completely* depending on the opposition and were able to exploit weaknesses in other teams, whether it was their players (Kordell) or their coach (Martz). When coaching alone wasn't going to get the job done, the players stepped up and made plays when they absolutely had to (snow bowl, last drive of SB36). In this salary cap era in which the talent level gets evened out amongst the teams, I think we'll see another champion like them and I would not be surprised at all if it is the Pats once again.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

75% dominant team, 25% magic (12.5% Bellichick, 12.5% Brady/Adam/Brown/Smith/Wiggens/etc.).

We OWNED the Rams for 3.5 quarters, then needed some magic to pull out the win.

 

[Ghost Rider]

We OWNED the Rams for 3.5 quarters, then needed some magic to pull out the win.

Given the disparity in total yardage, I would not say the Patriots owned the Rams for 3 1/2 quarters. The Rams moved the ball up and down the field all day on the Patriots.

 

[Sweeper]

There were a dominant team but not by way of overwhelming talent. They were dominant becuase it was the right players in the right system at the right time, all doing the right things.

They were a team that would just win and walked into every game knowing they could win and played with confidence. They (offence or D?) were patient players and played with poise right to the last second and that is where a few on the wins came from.

Patient, poised play on the last drive of a game. They kept it close and sealed it when it mattered.

 

[nerangers]

The 2001 Pats finished strong defensively down the stretch (did not give up more than 17pts in any of the last 9 games played...all wins). In the playoffs, they...1. Beat the Raiders by making an insane amount of plays when needed. Everyone remembers the tuck, but people forget the plays before and after. Prior to the tuck, the Raiders had 3rd-and-1. A first down and the game is over. Richard Seymour stuffs Crockett (who was a short-yardage stud that year) and the Raiders punt away. After the tuck, the Raiders still stopped the Pats, but then Vinatieri made that 45yd FG...arguably the most amazing kick ever...to tie the game. In OT, the Pats converted a 4th down to set up the game winner. Brady was 8-for-8 in OT. If any mistakes were made in the 4th quarter or OT, the Pats don't win that game. Kudos goes to the coaching staff for taking off Brady's reigns that he'd been wearing for the bulk of the season, especially down the stretch.2. Beat the Steelers by selling out to stop the run and dare Kordell to beat them, and capitalize on the already proven shaky Steelers special teams. The Pats suspected that Kordell couldn't beat them and they were right. The Pats also knew the Steelers had punt coverage problems and capitalized with an early Troy Brown punt return TD. The shaky Kris Brown getting a FG blocked and returned for a TD was icing on the cake. The Pats came out passing, but in the end it didn't matter since the special teams provided enough scoring to win.3. Beat the Rams by employing a completely opposite gameplan to the one used vs. Pittsburgh - run on O and sell out to stop the pass - and some clutch play by Brady. Even as a Pats fan, I'm not sure how SB36 would have turned out if Martz wasn't so damn stubborn and instead ran the ball like he did vs. Philly in the NFCCG. But he didn't and this is why SB36 is one of the biggest coaching mismatches in SB history. I think it's also important to note that despite Kurt Warner's good stats that year, the Rams were very sloppy with the ball all year...lots of turnovers...and the Pats were counting on this. They were right, as the Pats won the turnover battle 3-0. The Pats were content to play a game of field position...drive far enough to pin the Rams deep...and play bend-but-don't-break until the Rams turned it over. It was effective for 3+ quarters until the D finally snapped in the 4th quarter. Then it was Brady time when needed the most, with a big assist from Adam V.The 2001 Pats were hardly dominant. Instead, they were superbly coached by someone who wasn't afraid to change gameplans *completely* depending on the opposition and were able to exploit weaknesses in other teams, whether it was their players (Kordell) or their coach (Martz). When coaching alone wasn't going to get the job done, the players stepped up and made plays when they absolutely had to (snow bowl, last drive of SB36). In this salary cap era in which the talent level gets evened out amongst the teams, I think we'll see another champion like them and I would not be surprised at all if it is the Pats once again.

2001 was a good year, ending on a great note! Dominant is not the word that comes to mind.Regular SeasonWeek 1 Sep 9 L 23-17 at Cincinnati Bengals Week 2 Sep 23 L 10-3 vs New York Jets Week 3 Sep 30 W 44-13 vs Indianapolis Colts Week 4 Oct 7 L 30-10 at Miami Dolphins Week 5 Oct 14 W 29-26 vs San Diego Chargers (OT) Week 6 Oct 21 W 38-17 at Indianapolis Colts Week 7 Oct 28 L 31-20 at Denver Broncos Week 8 Nov 4 W 24-10 at Atlanta Falcons Week 9 Nov 11 W 21-11 vs Buffalo Bills Week 10 Nov 18 L 24-17 vs St. Louis Rams Week 11 Nov 25 W 34-17 vs New Orleans Saints Week 12 Dec 2 W 17-16 at New York Jets Week 13 Dec 9 W 31-16 vs Cleveland Browns Week 14 Dec 16 W 12-9 at Buffalo Bills (OT) Week 15 Dec 22 W 20-13 vs Miami Dolphins Week 16 Bye Week Week 17 Jan 6 W 38-6 at Carolina Panthers

 

[Borat]

Wow, how did I miss this thread last night?

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

No, they weren't a dominant team.

Dominating to me means they are far superior than anyone else in the league.

Their record was dominating over a period of years.......but as an individual team in each game, I never found them dominating. They were just very good at a lot of things and were able to play big when it counted.

I don't mean to make light of doing that, it's awesome. I just don't think they were a dominating team vs. some of the better competition that year.

 

[southeastjerome]

I think the 01 pats were more about belichick than anything. Brady was solid, but unspectacular. Sure Brady was 14-3, but that had more to do with him not making mistakes than him winning games. They were prepared for each team, week in, week out.

 

[Assani Fisher]

I know Phlash has man love for Brady, but the '01 team was definitely about the defense and the coaching staff. Yes, Brady was calm, cool, and collective but he was nowhere near a difference maker. He showed that the following year when he wasn't able to lead them to the playoffs, right? Brady was nothing more than what Dilfer was for the Ravens the year before (is that the right year?).

Are you serious? They were 0-2 and everyone thought they were the worst team in the league before Brady took over.