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11/2 Breaking News: Houston's Owners Are Basically That Dude in Your Dynasty League Who Makes Terrible Trade Offers. (1 Viewer)

Hot Sauce Guy

Footballguy
ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Dolphins will not trade for disgruntled Texans QB Deshaun Watson.

Miami reportedly "did due diligence" on Watson, so much so that Dolphins owner Stephen Ross received permission to speak with the disgruntled quarterback Monday night, but Houston refused to budge on their asking price — "at least three first-round draft picks, two second-round draft picks, and perhaps more" — after catching wind that Watson was trying to settle his 22 civil lawsuits in order to join another organization. Watson is thus expected to stay put with the Texans as a $10.54 million healthy scratch this year. This situation is expected to be revisited in the offseason as Watson has only agreed to waive his no-trade clause for Miami.


Just....wow. 

 

Tin Cup

Footballguy
They are probably trying to make up for all the years of damage Bill O’Brien did with his various horrible trades in one fell swoop.

 
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Jayded

Footballguy
So, I'll say this as a Texans fan - If you're Nick Caserio, do you trade Watson right now for peanuts just to move him? Might as well ask for the moon and see how close any team is willing to come.

Keep in mind Watson is Houston's first franchise quarterback since Steve McNair (I don't count Matt Schaub). We're now almost 20 seasons in and have thus far had 1 franchise QB for a few years. They've eroded the fanbase with the other dumb trades so they really cannot blow it with one more stupid lopsided deal or the rest are gone.

 

Hot Sauce Guy

Footballguy
They've eroded the fanbase with the other dumb trades so they really cannot blow it with one more stupid lopsided deal or the rest are gone.
right, but they’re also risking blowing it by trying to get another team to make a stupid lopsided deal. They reportedly aren’t budging from 3 1sts, a couple 2nds “and more”. 

So rather than make a reasonable deal to move their troubled QB &’oossibly get a 1st & a 2nd or maybe 2 1sts, they’re unlikely to make any deal.

I don’t see how holding onto Watson helps the Texans. 

 

SwampDawg

Footballguy
right, but they’re also risking blowing it by trying to get another team to make a stupid lopsided deal. They reportedly aren’t budging from 3 1sts, a couple 2nds “and more”. 

So rather than make a reasonable deal to move their troubled QB &’oossibly get a 1st & a 2nd or maybe 2 1sts, they’re unlikely to make any deal.

I don’t see how holding onto Watson helps the Texans. 
And smart move on Watson's part if he truly wants to go to Miami. He controls where he goes with the no trade and you want your new team in the best position possible. He likely knows his chances of playing this season are slim so work on getting the cases resolved  and once resolved maybe Miami is willing to go two first, a second and a third. Houston then needs to decide take it or have him back as a disgruntled player next year.  Of course assumes Miami plays anything smart which is unlikely.

 
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Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
My dad was an elementary school teacher. He had a dimwit student that, in an attempt to sell his dirt bike, put an ad in the paper that listed the price as "$60 or more".

My dad asked him why they'd pay more than $60 to which dimwit replied with the pride only the ignorant have..., "If they think it's worth more they'll give me more!"

I don't think the student's name was Nick Caserio but I'll double check with my dad.

 

dhockster

Footballguy
And smart move on Watson's part if he truly wants to go to Miami. He controls where he goes with the no trade and you want your new team in the best position possible. He likely knows his chances of playing this season are slim so work on getting the cases resolved  and once resolved maybe Miami is willing to go two first, a second and a third. Houston then needs to decide take it or have him back as a disgruntled player next year.  Of course assumes Miami plays anything smart which is unlikely.


I am a little mystified as to why Deshaun seems so set on just going to Miami. He is wanting out of Houston due to poor management by the Owner, and he is wanting to go to a team which has had poor management by the owner. It appears the allure of South Beach is what is selling him, but I think playing for a winning franchise is much more of a factor in having a great career. 

I also don't understand the lack of settlement of his lawsuits. At this point, it looks like settlement won't happen until the offseason, which means any suspension resulting from the settlement of said lawsuits will not come until 2022 (I have a hard time seeing the NFL not giving him some sort of suspension). This not only adds a complication for his new team, but will be a financial hit for Deshaun as he will lose salary in 2022 based on a $35 million salary whereas in 2021 he would have lost salary based on a $10 million salary. Big difference in the pocketbook.

 

Hot Sauce Guy

Footballguy
I am a little mystified as to why Deshaun seems so set on just going to Miami. He is wanting out of Houston due to poor management by the Owner, and he is wanting to go to a team which has had poor management by the owner. It appears the allure of South Beach is what is selling him, but I think playing for a winning franchise is much more of a factor in having a great career. 

I also don't understand the lack of settlement of his lawsuits. At this point, it looks like settlement won't happen until the offseason, which means any suspension resulting from the settlement of said lawsuits will not come until 2022 (I have a hard time seeing the NFL not giving him some sort of suspension). This not only adds a complication for his new team, but will be a financial hit for Deshaun as he will lose salary in 2022 based on a $35 million salary whereas in 2021 he would have lost salary based on a $10 million salary. Big difference in the pocketbook.
It occurred to me that he might be aware that the dolphins have a lot of picks, and a lot of players enjoy the tax status of FL, and the nightlife of Miami. Plus it’s a relatively up & coming team with a pretty clear path to playing time. Seems like a shrewd move to me. 

 
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Gatorman

Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
I am a little mystified as to why Deshaun seems so set on just going to Miami. He is wanting out of Houston due to poor management by the Owner, and he is wanting to go to a team which has had poor management by the owner. It appears the allure of South Beach is what is selling him, but I think playing for a winning franchise is much more of a factor in having a great career. 

I also don't understand the lack of settlement of his lawsuits. At this point, it looks like settlement won't happen until the offseason, which means any suspension resulting from the settlement of said lawsuits will not come until 2022 (I have a hard time seeing the NFL not giving him some sort of suspension). This not only adds a complication for his new team, but will be a financial hit for Deshaun as he will lose salary in 2022 based on a $35 million salary whereas in 2021 he would have lost salary based on a $10 million salary. Big difference in the pocketbook.


Watson has a home here and loves south florida.  

 

yoman

Footballguy
Love the thread title. The Texans and Lions are the only organizations that I think are worse than the Bears. I was shocked when they were talking about trading Watson without any consideration for the legal trouble that he is in. I guess no ownership was dumb enough to take on his baggage. If only he would agree to be traded to the Lions :)

 

Buckna

RMT Beta Tester
Meh, that same “price” has been reported for nearly 10 months now. He’s worth that much if he settles the lawsuits and receives a slap on the wrist suspension or time served. They don’t have to trade him now either as it’s not like his salary this year is prohibitive. They sit on him 4 more months and probably still get the same offer Miami had on the table now at the worst, except now there are probably multiple teams in the mix to trade for him, the pick selections are known, and the salary cap will be massively larger. :shrug:
 

The crazier thing to me is they were even willing to unload him at a lower price with his baggage unsettled. You’ve already taken the hit and carried him this long, what is 4 more months? Biggest winner is Philly as now Miami’s pick is likely a lock for a top 5 selection.

 
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tombonneau

Footballguy
It occurred to me that he might be aware that the dolphins have a lot of picks, and a lot of players enjoy the tax status of FL, and the nightlife of Miami. Plus it’s a relatively up & coming team with a pretty clear path to playing time. Seems like a shrewd move to me. 
Up and coming relative to whom? The Lions?

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
Great thread topic @Hot Sauce Guy

We needed a fresh look at the layout and I like taking the arc from Nov 2-Trade Deadline, NADA!

-So now we are going to have Watson OUT of football for a full 18 months before me "might possibly" take the field in 2022 and that's if he doesn't get a suspension from Goodell just for being a knucklehead going about satisfying his craving for happy endings. 

-The Texans WILL NEVER get 3 first rounders now, not IMHO since teams are going to start hammering them on the length of time he's been out of football. They ought to make him play the rest of the season or the final 4-6 weeks just so teams can see he isn't losing anything by not playing...if he didn't play in 2022, you're talking 2.5 yrs before he would step on a field in 2023? Somewhere between 18-30 months OUT of football is what we are looking at with Watson now, I don't know how you drain 3-1st and 2-2nds and more gravy on top, this is now looking like a sports car you want to buy until you run the CarFax Report and start getting some unsettling details. 

 

Terpman22

Footballguy
Apples to Apples, crappy teams to crappy teams, its pretty obvious why anyone would want to make a lateral change TO Miami coming FROM Houston, just based on the cities alone. 

 

dhockster

Footballguy
Great thread topic @Hot Sauce Guy

We needed a fresh look at the layout and I like taking the arc from Nov 2-Trade Deadline, NADA!

-So now we are going to have Watson OUT of football for a full 18 months before me "might possibly" take the field in 2022 and that's if he doesn't get a suspension from Goodell just for being a knucklehead going about satisfying his craving for happy endings. 

-The Texans WILL NEVER get 3 first rounders now, not IMHO since teams are going to start hammering them on the length of time he's been out of football. They ought to make him play the rest of the season or the final 4-6 weeks just so teams can see he isn't losing anything by not playing...if he didn't play in 2022, you're talking 2.5 yrs before he would step on a field in 2023? Somewhere between 18-30 months OUT of football is what we are looking at with Watson now, I don't know how you drain 3-1st and 2-2nds and more gravy on top, this is now looking like a sports car you want to buy until you run the CarFax Report and start getting some unsettling details. 


IF there are multiple teams trying to get Deshaun who he is willing to be traded to, and IF all the lawsuits are settled and no criminal charges have been filed, the Texans will get 3 first round picks for him if they trade him before the 2022 draft. I think you are overestimating the factor of him missing just one season, when players do it all the time due to injury. 

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
IF there are multiple teams trying to get Deshaun who he is willing to be traded to, and IF all the lawsuits are settled and no criminal charges have been filed, the Texans will get 3 first round picks for him if they trade him before the 2022 draft. I think you are overestimating the factor of him missing just one season, when players do it all the time due to injury. 
Still will be 18 moths between any real action on the Gridiron yes/no? That's what i posted, yes/no? 

I stand by my post

 

dhockster

Footballguy
Still will be 18 moths between any real action on the Gridiron yes/no? That's what i posted, yes/no? 

I stand by my post


Yes, you did say he would be out of action for 18 months. And you also said the Texans would NEVER get 3 1st round picks for him because of that. I stated the conditions under which they would get 3 first round picks. I don't agree with your assessment of NEVER. Just my opinion, no offense intended.

 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
I also don't understand the lack of settlement of his lawsuits. At this point, it looks like settlement won't happen until the offseason, which means any suspension resulting from the settlement of said lawsuits will not come until 2022 (I have a hard time seeing the NFL not giving him some sort of suspension). This not only adds a complication for his new team, but will be a financial hit for Deshaun as he will lose salary in 2022 based on a $35 million salary whereas in 2021 he would have lost salary based on a $10 million salary. Big difference in the pocketbook.
:goodposting:

He's already not going to play for Houston this year, so why not get the suspension out of the way? Also, while I wouldn't endorse this from an ethical perspective, the reality is he could probably get a settlement where he admits to unspecified bad behavior without having to go into details. There is still the potential criminal exposure, but I actually think that's the least of his worries. What he is accused of doing is awful and weird to the point of being nearly sociopathic, but at the end of the day there was no penetrative rape or physical violence. My non-lawyer opinion is that he would be very unlikely to receive jail time.

So settle it now, get the suspension and the worst of the PR hit out of the way, then go away for a few months and come back talking about how you've learned from this experience, you're going to marry your girlfriend and settle down, blah blah blah. Don't get me wrong, I still think that morally speaking, he's a monster, but if I were advising him, that's what I would tell him is in his best interest.

 

dhockster

Footballguy
:goodposting:

He's already not going to play for Houston this year, so why not get the suspension out of the way? Also, while I wouldn't endorse this from an ethical perspective, the reality is he could probably get a settlement where he admits to unspecified bad behavior without having to go into details. There is still the potential criminal exposure, but I actually think that's the least of his worries. What he is accused of doing is awful and weird to the point of being nearly sociopathic, but at the end of the day there was no penetrative rape or physical violence. My non-lawyer opinion is that he would be very unlikely to receive jail time.

So settle it now, get the suspension and the worst of the PR hit out of the way, then go away for a few months and come back talking about how you've learned from this experience, you're going to marry your girlfriend and settle down, blah blah blah. Don't get me wrong, I still think that morally speaking, he's a monster, but if I were advising him, that's what I would tell him is in his best interest.


Totally agree. 

It is interesting that there was some settlement discussion this week with the Plaintiff's attorney Tony Buzbee. He indicated that Deshaun's side wants the plaintiffs to sign Non Disclosure Agreements, after publicly saying from the beginning that they wanted everything out in the open, Deshaun has nothing to hide. The change in stance may have been coming from the Dolphins wanting NDA's from the plaintiffs so they wouldn't have to deal with as much negative publicity. Some of the plaintiffs apparently don't want to sign NDA's so no settlement happened.

I stated before I didn't understand why Deshaun hasn't settled his lawsuits. Well, it takes two to settle, and the girls obviously are not being offered enough, either in compensation or public disclosure, to satisfy them yet. It is easy to forget that the plaintiffs have a say in what happens in this whole situation.

 

Dr. Octopus

Footballguy
Also, while I wouldn't endorse this from an ethical perspective, the reality is he could probably get a settlement where he admits to unspecified bad behavior without having to go into details. 
If there is a settlement there will be no details released at all about "bad behavior" or lack thereof - the only thing we may find out is the amount of the settlement (and maybe not even that). Each party that accepts the settlement would very likely enter into an NDA prior to the settlement = only speculation will be a factor after that.

 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
It is interesting that there was some settlement discussion this week with the Plaintiff's attorney Tony Buzbee. He indicated that Deshaun's side wants the plaintiffs to sign Non Disclosure Agreements, after publicly saying from the beginning that they wanted everything out in the open, Deshaun has nothing to hide. The change in stance may have been coming from the Dolphins wanting NDA's from the plaintiffs so they wouldn't have to deal with as much negative publicity. Some of the plaintiffs apparently don't want to sign NDA's so no settlement happened.

I stated before I didn't understand why Deshaun hasn't settled his lawsuits. Well, it takes two to settle, and the girls obviously are not being offered enough, either in compensation or public disclosure, to satisfy them yet. It is easy to forget that the plaintiffs have a say in what happens in this whole situation.


If there is a settlement there will be no details released at all about "bad behavior" or lack thereof - the only thing we may find out is the amount of the settlement (and maybe not even that). Each party that accepts the settlement would very likely enter into an NDA prior to the settlement = only speculation will be a factor after that.
I'm going to take off my cynical hat for a second and put my moral hat back on: I really hope there are no NDAs, and I really hope the women go to the mats on that demand. We saw far too many cases in recent years with Weinstein and the like where men used them to prevent the public from knowing about their misbehavior and then went right back to doing it. Obviously a lot has already gotten out about Watson, so it's impossible for him to avoid any scrutiny, but I still hope it doesn't happen.

That said, I absolutely wouldn't judge the women if they did sign NDAs. One of the most powerful moments in the movie "Spotlight" is the scene where (SPOILER ALERT) we discover that Billy Crudup's character was not an amoral attorney helping the Church hush up sexual abuse cases, but rather a guy who tried to get the word out about what was going on, but who, upon finding no takers, concluded that all he could do was get his clients the best deal possible, which meant they would have to sign NDAs. Point being, it's very admirable if abuse victims take actions that benefit society at their own expense, but they are under no obligation to do so

 

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