11 months without politics (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

You think the people here are going to be able to withstand hearing "I disagree with you"?

That's exactly the point. "I disagree with you" is great. We do a ton of that on all sorts of topics.

But for PSF, it was never just "I disagree with you".

For some reason, the politics forum went quickly from "I disagree with you" to "anyone who disagrees with me is a bad person" and I don't want us going back to there.

To our credit, it's certainly not just us. I see that in tons of places.

I hope our folks get out and vote for the candidates they support.

But I think we're better here keeping politics out of Footballguys.

 

[fatness]

Politics, especially over the past decade, is too toxic and decisive.

It is. Ballot boxes have literally been set on fire in Arizona, Oregon, and Washington already, and election workers all over the country have been threatened already. I'd hate to see that kind of anger spill into this little group of football and social forums.

 

[titusbramble]

Politics, especially over the past decade, is too toxic and decisive.

It is. Ballot boxes have literally been set on fire in Arizona, Oregon, and Washington already, and election workers all over the country have been threatened already. I'd hate to see that kind of anger spill into this little group of football and social forums.

Delete post if it threatens to open worm cans, but I have no idea what the motives would be in WA or OR to do that. Zona maybe

 

[Sand]

Politics, especially over the past decade, is too toxic and decisive.

It is. Ballot boxes have literally been set on fire in Arizona, Oregon, and Washington already, and election workers all over the country have been threatened already. I'd hate to see that kind of anger spill into this little group of football and social forums.

Delete post if it threatens to open worm cans, but I have no idea what the motives would be in WA or OR to do that. Zona maybe

Logically you're right. Maybe the CHAZ kids are getting bored.

 

[HellToupee]

I had a few people on my ignore list when politics was a thing here. Since the banning those folks are no longer on my ignore list, and well, I actually enjoy their takes on many things.

 

[CowboysFromHell]

It has to stop. This country was much better when we got ticked off once every 2 or 4 years, getting it off our chest and then moving on with our lives. Now I'm a heartless piece of crap if I'm not on your team. The 10-20% of the fringe are dividing the 80% of us in the middle. I'm tired of politics, I'm glad it's gone.

10-80-10 would be nice, but I really think it’s closer to 50-50. I’ve personally lost at least 50% of my family & friends due to the recent political division in this country. There’s just no way to talk to the “other side” these days. I really wish there was as I think we have more in common than we realize. Siloed media is the real problem

 

[the moops]

I had a few people on my ignore list when politics was a thing here. Since the banning those folks are no longer on my ignore list, and well, I actually enjoy their takes on many things.

Not you though. I still generally ignore and despise you buddy

 

[Jayrod]

I get the concept, but I also disagree with what is defined as "political" around here.

Seems a better definition would be that nothing controversial can be discussed because that is what is enforced. If people get too emotional about it, it's off limits.

Unfortunately that removes a lot of what is actually worth discussing online where ideas can be freely expressed and freely challenged. That just doesn't happen in the real world and I've not been able to find anything close to what this place had going.

I'm sure it was a lot of work and painful, but most great things are.

 

[fatness]

Seems a better definition would be that nothing controversial can be discussed because that is what is enforced. If people get too emotional about it, it's off limits.

Some people have gotten a bit overly-emotional in some other topics if I remember correctly, including a religion topic, yet those topics are surviving, because others haven't fed that over-emotion in those topics. That's the difference. In political topics the anger is contagious and pervasive, and it doesn't just stay in the PSF.

 

[Lomez]

Politics, especially over the past decade, is too toxic and decisive.

It is. Ballot boxes have literally been set on fire in Arizona, Oregon, and Washington already, and election workers all over the country have been threatened already. I'd hate to see that kind of anger spill into this little group of football and social forums.

Delete post if it threatens to open worm cans, but I have no idea what the motives would be in WA or OR to do that. Zona maybe

Unless there was a second event, AZ was not a ballot box but a mailbox that happened to contain some ballots.

 

[Terminalxylem]

It has to stop. This country was much better when we got ticked off once every 2 or 4 years, getting it off our chest and then moving on with our lives. Now I'm a heartless piece of crap if I'm not on your team. The 10-20% of the fringe are dividing the 80% of us in the middle. I'm tired of politics, I'm glad it's gone.

10-80-10 would be nice, but I really think it’s closer to 50-50. I’ve personally lost at least 50% of my family & friends due to the recent political division in this country. There’s just no way to talk to the “other side” these days. I really wish there was as I think we have more in common than we realize. Siloed media is the real problem

This is surprising to me. How many total friend & family relationships have suffered from political differences?

I haven’t lost a single friend/family due to politics. I mean, I can quickly tell those who hold different world views, and it’s not difficult to avoid political conversation, or change the topic.

 

[massraider]

You can cruise right over to FFToday, and discuss politics with other middle aged football fans to your heart's content.

It's a lovely place, with fascinating discourse, well-reasoned arguments, respectful disagreements, and spirited, intelligent debate.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

It was 100% the correct call to shut it down. If the vitriol could have been contained to the PSF, it still would have taken a Herculean effort to moderate. That's not what happened, though. The grudges bled into the other forums and ruined discussions.

I will say that the 2020 election thread was really good. Unless I missed a bunch of culling, almost every post stuck to voting results without the usual bickering. Trying to replicate that in 2024 may be next to impossible, though.

 

[Todem]

It has to stop. This country was much better when we got ticked off once every 2 or 4 years, getting it off our chest and then moving on with our lives. Now I'm a heartless piece of crap if I'm not on your team. The 10-20% of the fringe are dividing the 80% of us in the middle. I'm tired of politics, I'm glad it's gone.

10-80-10 would be nice, but I really think it’s closer to 50-50. I’ve personally lost at least 50% of my family & friends due to the recent political division in this country. There’s just no way to talk to the “other side” these days. I really wish there was as I think we have more in common than we realize. Siloed media is the real problem

This is surprising to me. How many total friend & family relationships have suffered from political differences?

I haven’t lost a single friend/family due to politics. I mean, I can quickly tell those who hold different world views, and it’s not difficult to avoid political conversation, or change the topic.

Same. But the siloed media has done a number on this country.

I can tell pretty quickly where someone’s political beliefs stand on the scale and I typically can have rational thoughtful conversations with people I know and my family.

But my goodness. Media has become the ultimate divider in our country and “social media” in particular has truly become a weapon of war.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

It has to stop. This country was much better when we got ticked off once every 2 or 4 years, getting it off our chest and then moving on with our lives. Now I'm a heartless piece of crap if I'm not on your team. The 10-20% of the fringe are dividing the 80% of us in the middle. I'm tired of politics, I'm glad it's gone.

10-80-10 would be nice, but I really think it’s closer to 50-50. I’ve personally lost at least 50% of my family & friends due to the recent political division in this country. There’s just no way to talk to the “other side” these days. I really wish there was as I think we have more in common than we realize. Siloed media is the real problem

This is surprising to me. How many total friend & family relationships have suffered from political differences?

I haven’t lost a single friend/family due to politics. I mean, I can quickly tell those who hold different world views, and it’s not difficult to avoid political conversation, or change the topic.

You don't have the sort of personality that excommunicates a relative because they vote for the wrong person. Neither do I.

That said, it does happen. My BIL hasn't been on speaking terms with his dad since 2016, which strikes me as absolutely insane and the kind of thing that is going lead to a lifetime of regret for my BIL. But he's always been like this and it's in character for him. Some people just seek out drama.

 

[Da Guru]

It has to stop. This country was much better when we got ticked off once every 2 or 4 years, getting it off our chest and then moving on with our lives. Now I'm a heartless piece of crap if I'm not on your team. The 10-20% of the fringe are dividing the 80% of us in the middle. I'm tired of politics, I'm glad it's gone.

10-80-10 would be nice, but I really think it’s closer to 50-50. I’ve personally lost at least 50% of my family & friends due to the recent political division in this country. There’s just no way to talk to the “other side” these days. I really wish there was as I think we have more in common than we realize. Siloed media is the real problem

That is too bad. Have you ditched them or vice versa? I know where most of my friends and family stand and so be it. Does not impact my interactions with them. Not like I go to dinner with my friends and the firs tthing I say is "What do you think about the border problem?" The federal stuff is so far out of our hands. vote they way you feel and move on no matter what.

Local stuff we have much more impact and discussions about. Even then i would never lose anyone over it.

About the OP..yes it is way better here. Tim and Squis took their dog and pony show to another site still stirring the pot day after day and it is way worse there than it ever was here.

 

[massraider]

My BIL hasn't been on speaking terms with his dad since 2016, which strikes me as absolutely insane and the kind of thing that is going lead to a lifetime of regret for my BIL

Yeah, that sucks.

My younger brothers would get into it with my mom, make her really mad, and finally I asked them if it was more important to change her mind, or have a great relationship with her. I asked her the reverse. Amazingly, everyone agreed, and the subject is off limits. It was a real kumbaya moment.

 

[Joe Bryant]

My BIL hasn't been on speaking terms with his dad since 2016, which strikes me as absolutely insane and the kind of thing that is going lead to a lifetime of regret for my BIL

Yeah, that sucks.

My younger brothers would get into it with my mom, make her really mad, and finally I asked them if it was more important to change her mind, or have a great relationship with her. I asked her the reverse. Amazingly, everyone agreed, and the subject is off limits. It was a real kumbaya moment.

That's great to hear. And to a lesser degree, the decision I made for here.

Keeping relationship is high priority.

Especially when it's not really a choice between "keep relationship" and "change their mind". Because I think "change their mind" is so rare. It's usually not "change their mind" as much as "prove to them they're wrong and I'm right" and we know that happens so rarely it's hardly worth seeing as a viable option in my opinion.

And yes, keeping relationship doesn't over rule everything. Abusive relationships and such shouldn't be tolerated just to keep relationship. But for things like politics, I'm comfortable putting relationship as a priority.

 

[Sand]

Siloed media is the real problem

No joke. The mainstream media in this country has been measured to be +100% favorable on stories for one candidate and -85% on the other. A 185% delta isn't useful for this country, nor does it fulfill the essential function of the fourth estate. I think all can agree that an independent media critical of all parties is the best function of the press. We're far, far away from that ideal. It's a shame.

I'd much rather see a media that hammers everyone. The fabric of our country would be better for it.

 

[McBokonon]

Politics, especially over the past decade, is too toxic and decisive.

It is. Ballot boxes have literally been set on fire in Arizona, Oregon, and Washington already, and election workers all over the country have been threatened already. I'd hate to see that kind of anger spill into this little group of football and social forums.

Delete post if it threatens to open worm cans, but I have no idea what the motives would be in WA or OR to do that. Zona maybe

The one in WA happened in a competitive Congressional district in an area that heavily leans towards one of the parties. The one here in AZ, to your point, was a regular mailbox (as opposed to dedicated ballot drop box) and seems to be without any political motive.

 

[dino259]

It has to stop. This country was much better when we got ticked off once every 2 or 4 years, getting it off our chest and then moving on with our lives. Now I'm a heartless piece of crap if I'm not on your team. The 10-20% of the fringe are dividing the 80% of us in the middle. I'm tired of politics, I'm glad it's gone.

10-80-10 would be nice, but I really think it’s closer to 50-50. I’ve personally lost at least 50% of my family & friends due to the recent political division in this country. There’s just no way to talk to the “other side” these days. I really wish there was as I think we have more in common than we realize. Siloed media is the real problem

That is too bad. Have you ditched them or vice versa? I know where most of my friends and family stand and so be it. Does not impact my interactions with them. Not like I go to dinner with my friends and the firs tthing I say is "What do you think about the border problem?" The federal stuff is so far out of our hands. vote they way you feel and move on no matter what.

Local stuff we have much more impact and discussions about. Even then i would never lose anyone over it.

About the OP..yes it is way better here. Tim and Squis took their dog and pony show to another site still stirring the pot day after day and it is way worse there than it ever was here.

How do we change that? How do we provide more input than the lobbyist?

Anyone remember when John Scott an at best journeyman defenseman got voted as a captain of the NHL All star game? How do we pull something like that off in politics to get to vote for a candidate that is acceptable?

 

[Harry Manback]

When grown adults can't resist flinging poo, they get treated like kindergarteners. The psf brought out the poo flingers.

I get it, people like their safe spaces.

 

[opensourcebeer]

Siloed media is the real problem

No joke. The mainstream media in this country has been measured to be +100% favorable on stories for one candidate and -85% on the other. A 185% delta isn't useful for this country, nor does it fulfill the essential function of the fourth estate. I think all can agree that an independent media critical of all parties is the best function of the press. We're far, far away from that ideal. It's a shame.

I'd much rather see a media that hammers everyone. The fabric of our country would be better for it.

My perception is that this wasn't much of problem when the fairness doctrine was in place. Maybe the reinstatement of that would be a good thing.

 

[Jayrod]

As far as why people get angry about our politics...I mean, there is some life/death stuff going on with it so there are some legitimate reasons to be angry.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Siloed media is the real problem

No joke. The mainstream media in this country has been measured to be +100% favorable on stories for one candidate and -85% on the other. A 185% delta isn't useful for this country, nor does it fulfill the essential function of the fourth estate. I think all can agree that an independent media critical of all parties is the best function of the press. We're far, far away from that ideal. It's a shame.

I'd much rather see a media that hammers everyone. The fabric of our country would be better for it.

Most legacy media outlets are just propaganda. They have been since 2016, but it's been especially obvious for the past six months or so. You can cull good information from some of them on on-partisan topics, but anything that brushes up against the red-blue spectrum is just misinformation at this point.

 

[the moops]

Siloed media is the real problem

No joke. The mainstream media in this country has been measured to be +100% favorable on stories for one candidate and -85% on the other. A 185% delta isn't useful for this country, nor does it fulfill the essential function of the fourth estate. I think all can agree that an independent media critical of all parties is the best function of the press. We're far, far away from that ideal. It's a shame.

I'd much rather see a media that hammers everyone. The fabric of our country would be better for it.

Most legacy media outlets are just propaganda. They have been since 2016, but it's been especially obvious for the past six months or so. You can cull good information from some of them on on-partisan topics, but anything that brushes up against the red-blue spectrum is just misinformation at this point.

Dudes. Don't do this

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

You can cruise right over to FFToday, and discuss politics with other middle aged football fans to your heart's content.

It's a lovely place, with fascinating discourse, well-reasoned arguments, respectful disagreements, and spirited, intelligent debate.

Ah yes, "Stormfront with occasional football."

 

[Bossman]

In my 50+ years, I've never seen this country so divided. Politics & media is to blame.
The wife has threatened to divorce me if a certain person wins the election. I assume she's half joking but she's not laughing.
It's kind of laughable that candidates are campaigning for the "undecided" vote. Is that like 2% of the population?
There is no middle ground to the point where both parties make decisions based on what's best for their party and or how to screw the other party ... vs. what's best for the country.
We really need some new blood that isn't so "party loyal" but it would be impossible for those persons to win now.
I don't see this getting better anytime soon.

 

[Joe Schmo]

When grown adults can't resist flinging poo, they get treated like kindergarteners. The psf brought out the poo flingers.

I get it, people like their safe spaces.

Be sure to wash your hands, wouldn't want you to catch pink eye. I'll do likewise.

 

[JAA]

You think the people here are going to be able to withstand hearing "I disagree with you"?

That's exactly the point. "I disagree with you" is great. We do a ton of that on all sorts of topics.

But for PSF, it was never just "I disagree with you".

For some reason, the politics forum went quickly from "I disagree with you" to "anyone who disagrees with me is a bad person" and I don't want us going back to there.

To our credit, it's certainly not just us. I see that in tons of places.

I hope our folks get out and vote for the candidates they support.

But I think we're better here keeping politics out of Footballguys.

Just a single vote here, but I would vote tp bring back PSF

 

[JAA]

It has to stop. This country was much better when we got ticked off once every 2 or 4 years, getting it off our chest and then moving on with our lives. Now I'm a heartless piece of crap if I'm not on your team. The 10-20% of the fringe are dividing the 80% of us in the middle. I'm tired of politics, I'm glad it's gone.

10-80-10 would be nice, but I really think it’s closer to 50-50. I’ve personally lost at least 50% of my family & friends due to the recent political division in this country. There’s just no way to talk to the “other side” these days. I really wish there was as I think we have more in common than we realize. Siloed media is the real problem

Its easy to talk to "the other side". It starts with loving your neighbor, regardless of their political beliefs. It is that easy.

 

[dkp993]

I haven’t lost a single friend/family due to politics. I mean, I can quickly tell those who hold different world views, and it’s not difficult to avoid political conversation, or change the topic.

Completely agree. My FIL who just left yesterday after staying with us for a week has very strong outspoken political beliefs which differ from mine. We had a great week and didn’t discuss politics once. We both know we won’t see each others side so we just stay away from the topic, easy to do even a week before the election.

 

[JAA]

I get the concept, but I also disagree with what is defined as "political" around here.

Seems a better definition would be that nothing controversial can be discussed because that is what is enforced. If people get too emotional about it, it's off limits.

Unfortunately that removes a lot of what is actually worth discussing online where ideas can be freely expressed and freely challenged. That just doesn't happen in the real world and I've not been able to find anything close to what this place had going.

I'm sure it was a lot of work and painful, but most great things are.

1000%, completely agree.

I would wager if we did some basic web metrics, like Time On Page, or Session Length, the numbers would show much higher numbers during the political forum times. I should add that as someone who is intimate with politics and social media, lurking is a huge deal. Lots of lurkers read and dont post and it is important lurkers hear all opinions, not just their echo chambers.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

It's kind of laughable that candidates are campaigning for the "undecided" vote. Is that like 2% of the population?

I bet it's lower than that if you're talking about "do I vote for Candidate A or Candidate B?". The only thing voters are undecided about is whether they'll for their candidate or stay home.

I'm talking about national candidates here, not local.

 

[Joe Schmo]

I haven’t lost a single friend/family due to politics. I mean, I can quickly tell those who hold different world views, and it’s not difficult to avoid political conversation, or change the topic.

Completely agree. My FIL who just left yesterday after staying with us for a week has very strong outspoken political beliefs which differ from mine. We had a great week and didn’t discuss politics once. We both know we won’t see each others side so we just stay away from the topic, easy to do even a week before the election.

The hard part for me is both parties have to agree to the detente and that isn't always the case. Have a sister-in-law that looks for any opportunity to inject political snark into a conversation even when the topic is somewhat benign. I always bite my tongue but can tell my brother hates the situation. It's tough to be around her sometimes.

 

[JAA]

In my 50+ years, I've never seen this country so divided. Politics & media is to blame.
The wife has threatened to divorce me if a certain person wins the election. I assume she's half joking but she's not laughing.
It's kind of laughable that candidates are campaigning for the "undecided" vote. Is that like 2% of the population?
There is no middle ground to the point where both parties make decisions based on what's best for their party and or how to screw the other party ... vs. what's best for the country.
We really need some new blood that isn't so "party loyal" but it would be impossible for those persons to win now.
I don't see this getting better anytime soon.

Its shown that voter turnout wins elections. What matters is getting peolpe to actually vote, not polls. This is how 2016 turned out the way it did with polling. Freakanomics does an excellent job explaining this.

 

[belljr]

I don't speak to a few people anymore not because of their specific political beliefs but all they do is inject politics into everything

I don't have time or patience for your everyday outrage

 

[SWC]

even this thread should be eliminated take that to the bank brohans

 

[Sparky Polastri]

even this thread should be eliminated take that to the bank brohans

yup....along with the Israel and economy threads....no politics right?

 

[Joe Bryant]

even this thread should be eliminated take that to the bank brohans

yup....along with the Israel and economy threads....no politics right?

Understood. Both of those can bump up against it or right over into it but most everyone there understands what we're trying to do and is accommodating. Thank you.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Siloed media is the real problem

No joke. The mainstream media in this country has been measured to be +100% favorable on stories for one candidate and -85% on the other. A 185% delta isn't useful for this country, nor does it fulfill the essential function of the fourth estate. I think all can agree that an independent media critical of all parties is the best function of the press. We're far, far away from that ideal. It's a shame.

I'd much rather see a media that hammers everyone. The fabric of our country would be better for it.

Most legacy media outlets are just propaganda. They have been since 2016, but it's been especially obvious for the past six months or so. You can cull good information from some of them on on-partisan topics, but anything that brushes up against the red-blue spectrum is just misinformation at this point.

Dudes. Don't do this

Please listen to the moops.

 

[supermike80]

Just like the PSF has gone politics free, I CANNOT WAIT until this election is over. I'm starting to miss drug ads and their catchy jingles on my TV

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The wife has threatened to divorce me if a certain person wins the election. I assume she's half joking but she's not laughing.

The woman I’m in a long distance relationship with presently has said she would end our relationship if I voted for a certain candidate.

I look at it as an easy out if I decide I want to end it.

 

[supermike80]

The wife has threatened to divorce me if a certain person wins the election. I assume she's half joking but she's not laughing.

The woman I’m in a long distance relationship with presently has said she would and our relationship if I voted for a certain candidate.

I look at it as an easy out if I decide I want to end it.

I mean if that's the case, just cheat on her. Win win

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The wife has threatened to divorce me if a certain person wins the election. I assume she's half joking but she's not laughing.

The woman I’m in a long distance relationship with presently has said she would and our relationship if I voted for a certain candidate.

I look at it as an easy out if I decide I want to end it.

I mean if that's the case, just cheat on her. Win win

She lives in Florida. I live in NJ so I’m allowed to “cheat” on her.

 

[zoonation]

In my 50+ years, I've never seen this country so divided. Politics & media is to blame.
The wife has threatened to divorce me if a certain person wins the election. I assume she's half joking but she's not laughing.
It's kind of laughable that candidates are campaigning for the "undecided" vote. Is that like 2% of the population?
There is no middle ground to the point where both parties make decisions based on what's best for their party and or how to screw the other party ... vs. what's best for the country.
We really need some new blood that isn't so "party loyal" but it would be impossible for those persons to win now.
I don't see this getting better anytime soon.

Neither do I. Now more than ever a large segment of the American population views everything in their life through a partisan political lense. Their identity is tied to their political affiliation. It is bananas to me.

 

[Capella]

There are so many places to discuss politics. Twitter, Reddit, Trump’s site, Facebook if you are a boomer you can go anywhere. Why do you need it here?

 

[JAA]

There are so many places to discuss politics. Twitter, Reddit, Trump’s site, Facebook if you are a boomer you can go anywhere. Why do you need it here?

 

[TheAristocrat]

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

There are other sites on the Internet?

 

[Jayrod]

There are so many places to discuss politics. Twitter, Reddit, Trump’s site, Facebook if you are a boomer you can go anywhere. Why do you need it here?

I left Twitter because it was impossible to wade through the bots and keep my feed clean, plus there are a lot of elements I try to avoid that are too easily accessible on there.

I've never done more than dip my toe into Reddit and feel like it is too Wild West/No Holds Barred territory for what I'm comfortable with.

Never tried Trump's site (Truth Social?) but not interested in an echo chamber.

Facebook is real world and I'm not setting myself up for major arguments with family and friends.

The PSF was ideal for me. Decently moderated and anonymous with a variety of viewpoints. It was gold, Jerry, gold.