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14 Killed in Shooting in San Bernardino (1 Viewer)

Seems like they didn't really do as much damage at the center - 65-75 rounds/2 - is about 40 a person. That should have taken just a few seconds in an AR - even in a 10 round mag. Yet they had a lot more ammo to go through if they had wanted to stay and finish more people off in the crowd of 200. So a true ISIS terror angle to me would have had them shooting a lot more IMO - especially in light of Paris if he was trying to get on the ISIS team. There must of have been a targeting element to this - they got who they wanted and left. Will be interesting to hear the interactions from co-workers about him.

 
A terrorist may have legally purchased and stockpiled firearms and ammunition used in an attack and this somehow blows a hole in the gun control angle? That's a weird way to look at it.

 
My guess is that there are 2 reasons it hasn't been labeled a terrorist attack yet:

1) Tactical: If they suspect that there are ties to other terrorists, releasing info could compromise our ability to track them down

2) Political: Trying to turn this into an argument for gun control becomes very tricky if it was a terrorist attack because a terrorist clearly isn't going to care about having illegal weapons anyway (as evidenced by their bombs). And if someone inside had had a gun, then at least they would have had a larger chance. When it's some random psycho, it's easier to get away with calls for more gun control. When it's a terrorist, it affects people's perception.

And suddenly the pressure is more on the government as well. We know how much the government still spies on everyone; why didn't they head this off? Didn't Obama just say that ISIS was on the run? The blame can't just be placed on guns when it's clear that the motivation for violence is a much bigger piece than how the violence took place.
Disagree with number 2. Regardless of whether they would have tried to get guns illegally, the fact that they didn't need too makes it that much easier for terrorists (foreign or domestic) to inflict casualties here. Even if they have to go through something as simplistic as a straw purchase it adds another step where the activity and individuals can be deterred or flagged for attention. So if these end up being ideological terrorists carrying out an attack with legally obtained guns, I think it strengthens the gun control position.
Pipe bombs are illegal and yet taking the time to build them didn't seem to be any deterrent for these guys.
How many people here died from pipe bombs vs. the legally purchased guns?

Obviously homemade explosives can be extremely dangerous (Ok City, Boston). However the ready accessibility of guns, and in particular guns specifically designed to allow for high volume killing, raises legitimate questions about how we make it more it more difficult for terrorists to get them - by definition a question of gun control.

 
Seems like they didn't really do as much damage at the center - 65-75 rounds/2 - is about 40 a person. That should have taken just a few seconds in an AR - even in a 10 round mag. Yet they had a lot more ammo to go through if they had wanted to stay and finish more people off in the crowd of 200. So a true ISIS terror angle to me would have had them shooting a lot more IMO - especially in light of Paris if he was trying to get on the ISIS team. There must of have been a targeting element to this - they got who they wanted and left. Will be interesting to hear the interactions from co-workers about him.
I agree with someone that said that this was a sleeper cell but not the planned target initially. They decided to take their own agenda which is more dangerous IMO.

 
I suspect I have between 6 and 7 thousand rounds of ammunition in my home at this time. I do not keep a precise count. Probably breaks out something like this:


.22 mag - 100 rounds

.223 - 2000 rounds

.270 - 300 rounds

.30-.30 - 300 rounds

.306 - 200 rounds

.308 - 100 rounds

.300 - 50 rounds

.338 - 100 rounds

.45-70 - 200 rounds

.45 -110 - 100 rounds

.458 - 25 rounds

.40 - 2000 rounds

.44 mag - 1000 rounds

.45 - 50 rounds

10mm - 25 rounds

9mm - 25 rounds

.38 - 10 rounds

20 gauge 200 rounds

12 gauge 400 rounds
I have about this many... in Fallout 4. The only thing you seem to be missing are the mini-nukes.
I have never played any of the commercially available first person shooter games. I have been on some trainers. Generally my experience has not tended toward the 'virtual'. I hear that some of those games are quite sophisticated and I am told "lifelike" though I wonder about the basis of the latter opinion.

 
Seems like they didn't really do as much damage at the center - 65-75 rounds/2 - is about 40 a person. That should have taken just a few seconds in an AR - even in a 10 round mag. Yet they had a lot more ammo to go through if they had wanted to stay and finish more people off in the crowd of 200. So a true ISIS terror angle to me would have had them shooting a lot more IMO - especially in light of Paris if he was trying to get on the ISIS team. There must of have been a targeting element to this - they got who they wanted and left. Will be interesting to hear the interactions from co-workers about him.
Maybe they planned on several quick attacks like this. It doesn't seem like they needed to rent a car or amass that number of bombs found at their home if they planned on dying there. That will be scary if these attackers start trying to survive instead of being so willing to die at the attack.

 
Typical FBI press brief, might as well just have got up there and said, "At this time we don't know ####. Thank you."
Who are all the rest of those people up there? Why are they there?
Various law enforcement people. I see county, state, ATF, FBI, and maybe DHS in there. If there was a question for one of those agencies, one of those people in back would step forward to address it. And then those people have their assistants and the like.
I thought they were all the FBI guys posse.
Some political hacks up there, too. Never forget those weasels.

 
I kinda feel bad for the folks who commented that they saw suspicious activity but were afraid to report it for seeming like they were profiling....

Imagine they feel some burden from yesterday's events. :(
And Icon that's why even though the party I was with kind of poked fun at me for reporting a couple suspicious folks at the Clevelander a week or so ago but later on in the night several retracted and said they simply never would be looking for that kind of activity. That's what these idiots plan on, that we won't react.

Shortly after 9/11 I was on a plane, one of the last times I have flown in the last 15 years and the uniformed crew member came on the intercom asking if (Insert Arabic Name) was on board. Everyone looking around and then relieved that nobody came forward and that nobody seemed to match that description. I was seated next to a Hollywood writer(no idea the name now) but he wrote and murmured next to me "Did Sheik's luggage make it on board?" and that was enough and I asked the lady to come back to our row immediately and got her involved in the the thinking. Pilot heard and immediately stopped the plane, we stayed like that for a good 30-45 minutes until they could verify neither he nor his luggage was anywhere on that plane.

People are typically ridiculed for profiling or speaking out, I've started to get over that feeling and just be ready to verbally attack back anyone who who raises an eyebrow when anyone starts asking questions.

 
Seems like they didn't really do as much damage at the center - 65-75 rounds/2 - is about 40 a person. That should have taken just a few seconds in an AR - even in a 10 round mag. Yet they had a lot more ammo to go through if they had wanted to stay and finish more people off in the crowd of 200. So a true ISIS terror angle to me would have had them shooting a lot more IMO - especially in light of Paris if he was trying to get on the ISIS team. There must of have been a targeting element to this - they got who they wanted and left. Will be interesting to hear the interactions from co-workers about him.
Maybe they planned on several quick attacks like this. It doesn't seem like they needed to rent a car or amass that number of bombs found at their home if they planned on dying there. That will be scary if these attackers start trying to survive instead of being so willing to die at the attack.
I would think the "willing to die" ones are a much greater risk to us than the ones who want to live and get away.
 
A terrorist may have legally purchased and stockpiled firearms and ammunition used in an attack and this somehow blows a hole in the gun control angle? That's a weird way to look at it.
How so?

That it was seemingly easy for a guy who had apparently spoke to radical islamic terrorists overseas to obtain these weapons suggest that current laws or ways of monitoring such things is inadequate.

 
WASHINGTON—Cautioning citizens to be on high alert and remain indoors until the area was determined to be safe, authorities confirmed Thursday that the United States is still an active shooter situation. “The violent situation in this nation is still developing, so it is absolutely essential that the American population lock their doors and stay away from windows until all threats have been neutralized,” said FBI director James Comey, who urged those within the country’s borders to turn off all lights and take cover while the shooting rampage taking place across the nation is still underway. “Right now, this 3.8-million-square-mile area is still very dangerous. We are working to ascertain how many suspects there are and secure the location, but at this point, we can’t say exactly when that might be. We will continue to update American citizens regularly as we learn more.” Comey added that individuals who live or work within the country should check in with their loved ones to let them know they’re safe.
 
I kinda feel bad for the folks who commented that they saw suspicious activity but were afraid to report it for seeming like they were profiling....

Imagine they feel some burden from yesterday's events. :(
And Icon that's why even though the party I was with kind of poked fun at me for reporting a couple suspicious folks at the Clevelander a week or so ago but later on in the night several retracted and said they simply never would be looking for that kind of activity. That's what these idiots plan on, that we won't react. Shortly after 9/11 I was on a plane, one of the last times I have flown in the last 15 years and the uniformed crew member came on the intercom asking if (Insert Arabic Name) was on board. Everyone looking around and then relieved that nobody came forward and that nobody seemed to match that description. I was seated next to a Hollywood writer(no idea the name now) but he wrote and murmured next to me "Did Sheik's luggage make it on board?" and that was enough and I asked the lady to come back to our row immediately and got her involved in the the thinking. Pilot heard and immediately stopped the plane, we stayed like that for a good 30-45 minutes until they could verify neither he nor his luggage was anywhere on that plane.

People are typically ridiculed for profiling or speaking out, I've started to get over that feeling and just be ready to verbally attack back anyone who who raises an eyebrow when anyone starts asking questions.
So in other words, because of events like yesterday we should all be suspicious of Middle eastern looking people and report them if they look like something strange is going on?
 
international terrorist focus developing

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html

Syed Rizwan Farook -- one-half of the couple behind the San Bernardino shooting massacre -- was apparently radicalized and in touch with people being investigated by the FBI for international terrorism, law enforcement officials said Thursday.

Farook's apparent radicalization contributed to his role in the mass shooting, with his wife Tashfeen Malik, of 14 people Wednesday during a holiday party for the San Bernardino County health department, where Farook worked, sources said.

Still, it wasn't necessarily the only driver behind the carnage, as workplace grievances may have also played a role. President Barack Obama hinted as much Thursday when he said that the attackers may have had "mixed motives."

Farook traveled to Saudi Arabia for several weeks in 2013 on the Hajj, the annual pilgrimage to Mecca that Muslims are required to take at least once in their lifetime, which didn't raise red flags, said two government officials. It was during this trip that he met Malik, a native of Pakistan who came to the United States on a "fiancée visa" and later became a lawful permanent resident.

Officials had previously said that neither Farook and Malik were known to the FBI or on a list of potentially radicalized people. Nor had they had any known interactions with police until Wednesday's deadly shootout that culminated in their deaths.

Yet Farook himself had communicated by phone and via social media with more than one person being investigated for terrorism, law enforcement officials said. A separate U.S. government official said the 28-year-old has "overseas communications and associations."

As to what role those all played in the San Bernardino carnage, the official acknowledged, " We don't know yet what they mean."
So anyone that has come in contact with them in the last many years is going to get a knock on the door soon from the FBI? Even law abiding Muslims who knew these two might want to think about voluntarily checking themselves in just so they can be cleared quickly. Look how Paris reacted? Granted we were able to end the terrorist lives pretty quick but I would expect a lot of collateral arrests by the FBI, even using this as good reason to bring in certain individuals for questioning.

 
Seems like they didn't really do as much damage at the center - 65-75 rounds/2 - is about 40 a person. That should have taken just a few seconds in an AR - even in a 10 round mag. Yet they had a lot more ammo to go through if they had wanted to stay and finish more people off in the crowd of 200. So a true ISIS terror angle to me would have had them shooting a lot more IMO - especially in light of Paris if he was trying to get on the ISIS team. There must of have been a targeting element to this - they got who they wanted and left. Will be interesting to hear the interactions from co-workers about him.
Maybe they planned on several quick attacks like this. It doesn't seem like they needed to rent a car or amass that number of bombs found at their home if they planned on dying there. That will be scary if these attackers start trying to survive instead of being so willing to die at the attack.
In San Bernardino ? Why there doesn't add up yet.

 
Anyone else think it's weird that his insane, violent, suicidal dad left the family to live in Pakistan and a few years later Syed goes to Saudi Arabia to meet and bring back a Pakistani woman he met online?

 
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Anyone else think it's weird that his insane, violent, suicidal dad left the family to live in Pakistan and a few years later Syed goes to Saudi Arabia to meet and bring back a Pakistani woman he met online?
If he was radicalized - it happened in SoCal at his mosque or with others who attended there and live in SoCal. Hard to believe that a kid born in the US goes over to the bad side in one trip to Haiji and continue through to this conclusion in such a short time without encouragement from someone close in the US.

 
Every time something like this happens Trumps numbers are going to improve.
Disgusting but true.
Maybe if this country wasn't being run by a #####, Trump's numbers wouldn't be so high...
Trump's numbers are high because a loud minority of Republicans, around 45%, are susceptible to fear, bigotry, and ignorance.
You can keep saying this over and over if it makes you feel better...

 
I kinda feel bad for the folks who commented that they saw suspicious activity but were afraid to report it for seeming like they were profiling....

Imagine they feel some burden from yesterday's events. :(
And Icon that's why even though the party I was with kind of poked fun at me for reporting a couple suspicious folks at the Clevelander a week or so ago but later on in the night several retracted and said they simply never would be looking for that kind of activity. That's what these idiots plan on, that we won't react. Shortly after 9/11 I was on a plane, one of the last times I have flown in the last 15 years and the uniformed crew member came on the intercom asking if (Insert Arabic Name) was on board. Everyone looking around and then relieved that nobody came forward and that nobody seemed to match that description. I was seated next to a Hollywood writer(no idea the name now) but he wrote and murmured next to me "Did Sheik's luggage make it on board?" and that was enough and I asked the lady to come back to our row immediately and got her involved in the the thinking. Pilot heard and immediately stopped the plane, we stayed like that for a good 30-45 minutes until they could verify neither he nor his luggage was anywhere on that plane.

People are typically ridiculed for profiling or speaking out, I've started to get over that feeling and just be ready to verbally attack back anyone who who raises an eyebrow when anyone starts asking questions.
So in other words, because of events like yesterday we should all be suspicious of Middle eastern looking people and report them if they look like something strange is going on?
Am I going to hurt your feelings if I say yes?

I'm also going to report anything strange going on by anyone.

 
Every time something like this happens Trumps numbers are going to improve.
Disgusting but true.
Maybe if this country wasn't being run by a #####, Trump's numbers wouldn't be so high...
Trump's numbers are high because a loud minority of Republicans, around 45%, are susceptible to fear, bigotry, and ignorance.
You can keep saying this over and over if it makes you feel better...
He is right.

 
Seems like they didn't really do as much damage at the center - 65-75 rounds/2 - is about 40 a person. That should have taken just a few seconds in an AR - even in a 10 round mag. Yet they had a lot more ammo to go through if they had wanted to stay and finish more people off in the crowd of 200. So a true ISIS terror angle to me would have had them shooting a lot more IMO - especially in light of Paris if he was trying to get on the ISIS team. There must of have been a targeting element to this - they got who they wanted and left. Will be interesting to hear the interactions from co-workers about him.
Maybe they planned on several quick attacks like this. It doesn't seem like they needed to rent a car or amass that number of bombs found at their home if they planned on dying there. That will be scary if these attackers start trying to survive instead of being so willing to die at the attack.
In San Bernardino ? Why there doesn't add up yet.
(Speculation) Because he wanted to get back at people he worked with first before going on as planned.

 
I have been to this regional center.

Just in case you don't know what the regional center is. It is a non profit that helps people with developmental disabilities. They treat a lot of children with autism. downs and asbergers etc. Most times for free.

So in case you weren't angry enough these people shot up a building full of disabled kids, specifically killing people who help disabled kids.

You know it is always weird when you were at a spot where something like this has happened. I used to drive through the Reginald Denny intersection, I had been in the twin towers, this one is too much.

You always think what would you do if you were there?

Regional center surprisingly is a very secure facility. It has many one way doors and none that will let you directly out without a passcode. This is due to the nature of dealing with disabled adults and kids. Many autistic kids will elope. They just take off. Some adults will just wander off if not contained.

The only reason that guy got in there was he was an employee, it would have been extremely difficult for anyone to get out. Impossible if you were there for treatment and didn't have a card.

 
Anyone else think it's weird that his insane, violent, suicidal dad left the family to live in Pakistan and a few years later Syed goes to Saudi Arabia to meet and bring back a Pakistani woman he met online?
If he was radicalized - it happened in SoCal at his mosque or with others who attended there and live in SoCal. Hard to believe that a kid born in the US goes over to the bad side in one trip to Haiji and continue through to this conclusion in such a short time without encouragement from someone close in the US.
A kid's dad can wield a tremendous influence, is what I'm saying. Could have been years and years of mental abuse and manipulation going on. Going to be interesting to see what investigators find when and if they track down the dad.

 
I kinda feel bad for the folks who commented that they saw suspicious activity but were afraid to report it for seeming like they were profiling....

Imagine they feel some burden from yesterday's events. :(
And Icon that's why even though the party I was with kind of poked fun at me for reporting a couple suspicious folks at the Clevelander a week or so ago but later on in the night several retracted and said they simply never would be looking for that kind of activity. That's what these idiots plan on, that we won't react. Shortly after 9/11 I was on a plane, one of the last times I have flown in the last 15 years and the uniformed crew member came on the intercom asking if (Insert Arabic Name) was on board. Everyone looking around and then relieved that nobody came forward and that nobody seemed to match that description. I was seated next to a Hollywood writer(no idea the name now) but he wrote and murmured next to me "Did Sheik's luggage make it on board?" and that was enough and I asked the lady to come back to our row immediately and got her involved in the the thinking. Pilot heard and immediately stopped the plane, we stayed like that for a good 30-45 minutes until they could verify neither he nor his luggage was anywhere on that plane.

People are typically ridiculed for profiling or speaking out, I've started to get over that feeling and just be ready to verbally attack back anyone who who raises an eyebrow when anyone starts asking questions.
So in other words, because of events like yesterday we should all be suspicious of Middle eastern looking people and report them if they look like something strange is going on?
We shouldn't need constant reminders about this. Any suspicious activity Tim, it's not just ME terrorism. I'm sorry but I'm the guy on the block who calls in suspicious activity.

When I see young ME decent with thick beard and backpack walking into a crowded area where I happen to be gathering with friends and when you look around this person is about the only one with a backpack, yep I'm gonna start asking questions. The flip side are the bleeding hearts that parade around and try to make people such as myself feel guilty for making judgements...Up Yours! Not you Tim, but the leftist media and I'll leave it at that. Over the years the "don't judge a book by it's cover" has been their battle cry. I believe like George Carlin said that the guy wielding a machete and beating the top of the bar with it screaming and wailing "F U to America" is likely the person we want to keep an eye on. I might have misquoted Carlin slightly.

 
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I have been to this regional center.

Just in case you don't know what the regional center is. It is a non profit that helps people with developmental disabilities. They treat a lot of children with autism. downs and asbergers etc. Most times for free.

So in case you weren't angry enough these people shot up a building full of disabled kids, specifically killing people who help disabled kids.

You know it is always weird when you were at a spot where something like this has happened. I used to drive through the Reginald Denny intersection, I had been in the twin towers, this one is too much.

You always think what would you do if you were there?

Regional center surprisingly is a very secure facility. It has many one way doors and none that will let you directly out without a passcode. This is due to the nature of dealing with disabled adults and kids. Many autistic kids will elope. They just take off. Some adults will just wander off if not contained.

The only reason that guy got in there was he was an employee, it would have been extremely difficult for anyone to get out. Impossible if you were there for treatment and didn't have a card.
:confused:

 
I have been to this regional center.

Just in case you don't know what the regional center is. It is a non profit that helps people with developmental disabilities. They treat a lot of children with autism. downs and asbergers etc. Most times for free.

So in case you weren't angry enough these people shot up a building full of disabled kids, specifically killing people who help disabled kids.

You know it is always weird when you were at a spot where something like this has happened. I used to drive through the Reginald Denny intersection, I had been in the twin towers, this one is too much.

You always think what would you do if you were there?

Regional center surprisingly is a very secure facility. It has many one way doors and none that will let you directly out without a passcode. This is due to the nature of dealing with disabled adults and kids. Many autistic kids will elope. They just take off. Some adults will just wander off if not contained.

The only reason that guy got in there was he was an employee, it would have been extremely difficult for anyone to get out. Impossible if you were there for treatment and didn't have a card.
:confused:
What?

 
So in case you weren't angry enough these people shot up a building full of disabled kids, specifically killing people who help disabled kids.
I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that this isn't even remotely true. It was in the banquet hall, which is a separate building than the care facilities themselves.

The banquet hall was also rented out to an outside group for a holiday party, it was not being used by the people that work at the facility. Of course there was some staff there to work the banquet, but the facility itself wasn't the target, the occupants were

 
This morning I saw a middle eastern guy riding a bike with a backpack on. I am going to feel TREMENDOUS guilt if something happens and I didn't call the police.

 
So in case you weren't angry enough these people shot up a building full of disabled kids, specifically killing people who help disabled kids.
I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that this isn't even remotely true. It was in the banquet hall, which is a separate building than the care facilities themselves.

The banquet hall was also rented out to an outside group for a holiday party, it was not being used by the people that work at the facility. Of course there was some staff there to work the banquet, but the facility itself wasn't the target, the occupants were
Oh I know they shot up the staff, but these are some very caring patient people who genuinely help disabled kids

 
I have been to this regional center.

Just in case you don't know what the regional center is. It is a non profit that helps people with developmental disabilities. They treat a lot of children with autism. downs and asbergers etc. Most times for free.

So in case you weren't angry enough these people shot up a building full of disabled kids, specifically killing people who help disabled kids.

You know it is always weird when you were at a spot where something like this has happened. I used to drive through the Reginald Denny intersection, I had been in the twin towers, this one is too much.

You always think what would you do if you were there?

Regional center surprisingly is a very secure facility. It has many one way doors and none that will let you directly out without a passcode. This is due to the nature of dealing with disabled adults and kids. Many autistic kids will elope. They just take off. Some adults will just wander off if not contained.

The only reason that guy got in there was he was an employee, it would have been extremely difficult for anyone to get out. Impossible if you were there for treatment and didn't have a card.
:confused:
What?
His company was having a holiday party there, as of now the only people targeted that we know of are those that were at that party. The party was for County personnel that had rented out the room. They are still douchebags of the highest level but they didn't target those that help the disabled.

 
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Trump's numbers are high because a loud minority of Republicans, around 45%, are susceptible to fear, bigotry, and ignorance.
Tim's infamous F.B.I.

Fear-Guns are killing people so we must outlaw them

Bigotry-Black Lives Matter

Ignorance-We can tax our way out of this debt.

What was the opinion you wanted to project as known fact?

 
We are going to head down the usual road where folks line up:

Why do we need guns? (see constitution, etc)

Citizens aren't as well trained as elite military? (citizens are frequently in a better position to respond quickly, not to mention deterrent factor)

Why don't we just ban guns? (look at the war on drugs)

What about improving background checks? (little reasonable argument against this, but let's start with better enforcement of existing laws)

etc etc etc....

Same debates... same questions...same answers....
Sorry but I'm never going to trust some redneck with a gun who thinks he's Chuck Norris trying to diffuse a situation.

 
So in case you weren't angry enough these people shot up a building full of disabled kids, specifically killing people who help disabled kids.
I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that this isn't even remotely true. It was in the banquet hall, which is a separate building than the care facilities themselves.The banquet hall was also rented out to an outside group for a holiday party, it was not being used by the people that work at the facility. Of course there was some staff there to work the banquet, but the facility itself wasn't the target, the occupants were
Oh I know they shot up the staff, but these are some very caring patient people who genuinely help disabled kids
And they weren't the target, rendering your entire point moot

 
So in case you weren't angry enough these people shot up a building full of disabled kids, specifically killing people who help disabled kids.
I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that this isn't even remotely true. It was in the banquet hall, which is a separate building than the care facilities themselves.

The banquet hall was also rented out to an outside group for a holiday party, it was not being used by the people that work at the facility. Of course there was some staff there to work the banquet, but the facility itself wasn't the target, the occupants were
Its kind of three office building on a campus I don't know which one the shooting was in.

 

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