16 Team Leagues (1 Viewer)

[Tau837]

I'll be in a 16 team league for the first time this year. In leagues like these, assuming typical lineups (no Flex, no IDP) and scoring (no PPR), what is different? Obviously, rosters will tend to be thinner. I can plug rules and projections into DD and see the basics, but I'm interested in experiences of others.

Some things that seem likely to me:

QBs are quite a bit more valuable - 16 starters plus too few quality backups

Gates is more valuable - I'm assuming he will again be the top TE

Handcuffs are more important for RBs (and maybe even QBs...?)

Questions:

What draft position would people prefer? For me, #1 seems obvious... LT plus a 3rd round pick up to 15 picks before an opponent... big gap there. But where does that swing? That is, after 1... 2... 3... ? perhaps it becomes more valuable to have a later first round pick...

Does this make players like Rudi and Peyton more valuable because of their reliability/durability... or does upside become even more important?

Are trades easier or harder in this type of league? Seems like rosters will be thinner, and thus a good drafter who builds depth may be able to more easily swing 2 for 1 upgrades...

What else is notable?

TIA.

 

[wannabee]

I'll be in a 16 team league for the first time this year. In leagues like these, assuming typical lineups (no Flex, no IDP) and scoring (no PPR), what is different? Obviously, rosters will tend to be thinner. I can plug rules and projections into DD and see the basics, but I'm interested in experiences of others.Some things that seem likely to me:QBs are quite a bit more valuable - 16 starters plus too few quality backupsGates is more valuable - I'm assuming he will again be the top TEHandcuffs are more important for RBs (and maybe even QBs...?)Questions:What draft position would people prefer? For me, #1 seems obvious... LT plus a 3rd round pick up to 15 picks before an opponent... big gap there. But where does that swing? That is, after 1... 2... 3... ? perhaps it becomes more valuable to have a later first round pick...Does this make players like Rudi and Peyton more valuable because of their reliability/durability... or does upside become even more important?Are trades easier or harder in this type of league? Seems like rosters will be thinner, and thus a good drafter who builds depth may be able to more easily swing 2 for 1 upgrades...What else is notable?TIA.

I play in a long time 16 teamer, and a couple newer ones. QBs become much more valuable in that the advantage between Manning (or Palmer) and QB16 (Campbell or Schaub) is enough to win a weekly game.I have found trades are more difficult because every move is so magnifies and mistakes are hard to overcome. On Gates, that is a tough call. You are giving up a need QB or RB most likely. Taking Gates might really hurt depth.I agree on handcuffs. It is a cheap way to gain depth. Also, I work the waiver hard since depth is so hard to come by.The 1.01 is very valuable not only because of LT. The higher the pick in the first, the better. Getting BPA at the turn gives the 1.01 an advantage that most do not realize. I know it did not pan out, but I was able to take LT, Holt, then Randy Moss in the 3rd. I took a few RBs to play RBBC for RB. I know it did not pan out with Moss, but this year that might equate to getting both Colt WRs or even LT, a top QB like Brees, and then Roy Williams in the 3rd. I hope this helps. I can tell you that the DD favors teams that go RB/WR/WR interms of value. I am still deciding whether I think it relates well to my league.

 

[Tau837]

I play in a long time 16 teamer, and a couple newer ones. QBs become much more valuable in that the advantage between Manning (or Palmer) and QB16 (Campbell or Schaub) is enough to win a weekly game.I have found trades are more difficult because every move is so magnifies and mistakes are hard to overcome. On Gates, that is a tough call. You are giving up a need QB or RB most likely. Taking Gates might really hurt depth.I agree on handcuffs. It is a cheap way to gain depth. Also, I work the waiver hard since depth is so hard to come by.The 1.01 is very valuable not only because of LT. The higher the pick in the first, the better. Getting BPA at the turn gives the 1.01 an advantage that most do not realize. I know it did not pan out, but I was able to take LT, Holt, then Randy Moss in the 3rd. I took a few RBs to play RBBC for RB. I know it did not pan out with Moss, but this year that might equate to getting both Colt WRs or even LT, a top QB like Brees, and then Roy Williams in the 3rd. I hope this helps. I can tell you that the DD favors teams that go RB/WR/WR interms of value. I am still deciding whether I think it relates well to my league.

Thanks. This is good info.

 

[Lash]

I play in a long time 16 teamer, and a couple newer ones. QBs become much more valuable in that the advantage between Manning (or Palmer) and QB16 (Campbell or Schaub) is enough to win a weekly game.I have found trades are more difficult because every move is so magnifies and mistakes are hard to overcome. On Gates, that is a tough call. You are giving up a need QB or RB most likely. Taking Gates might really hurt depth.I agree on handcuffs. It is a cheap way to gain depth. Also, I work the waiver hard since depth is so hard to come by.The 1.01 is very valuable not only because of LT. The higher the pick in the first, the better. Getting BPA at the turn gives the 1.01 an advantage that most do not realize. I know it did not pan out, but I was able to take LT, Holt, then Randy Moss in the 3rd. I took a few RBs to play RBBC for RB. I know it did not pan out with Moss, but this year that might equate to getting both Colt WRs or even LT, a top QB like Brees, and then Roy Williams in the 3rd. I hope this helps. I can tell you that the DD favors teams that go RB/WR/WR interms of value. I am still deciding whether I think it relates well to my league.

1) actually IMO, the same can be said for Gates and the 16th TE ... he will score alot more ... last year i went RB, Gates, WR as my 1-2-3 and finished with second highest points so you can speculate on a couple RB2's and still pan out well ... just pointing out an example, that Gates can be a good pick in a 16 teamer2) i've seen the Manning/CJ and the SSmith/Palmer type combinations work at the back end of the first rd turnaround but you have to hit a homerun on your RB upsides in rds 3 thru 5 (an example last year was that Gore went rd 4)...examples this year would be LWhite, Norwood, Turner, Barber etc...i probably wouldnt do this strategy but just pointing out that ive seen itthe good news about that strategy is that if your speculating on RBs flops, you'll have a HIGH draft pick the next year to grab one and have the leagues QB1or2 and WR1or23) one more thing is going RB,RB,RB like some do in 12 or 10 teamers is probably not a good idea unless you're in a dynasty and not planning on fielding your best team possible in year one as that is going to kill your depth and your QB1 and WR1 will be more than likely be average4) lastly take magazine and internet ADP-by-round and add 33% to figure out the round in a 16 teamer that the player is likely to go in

 

[Dexter Manley]

I'm in a 16 team redraft w/4 divisions and an unbalanced schedule. Start QB, 2 RB, 3 WR/TE, K, Def/ST. Very liberal scoring: all TD's 6 pts, 1 point per 20 yards passing, 1 point per 10 yards rushing/receiving, turnovers -2.

RB's are of even more importance in this league. RB's are gold in any league, but are platinum in a 16 teamer. Since there are only 32 starting RB's in the nfl, once the bye weeks start rolling, multiple teams have RB's in their starting lineups who aren't even starters on their nfl team.

Last season, guy with the last pick in the draft took CJ and Brady (he was obscenely drunk). He was forced to take both of Denver's Bells with his 3rd and 4th rounders, as his starting RB's. You absolutely have to take a RB with at least one of your first 2 picks or you're toast.

If you are drafting toward the bottom of the first round, you are almost forced to go RB-RB, since there will almost surely be no RB2 available when it comes back to you in the 3rd. For example, Manning was drafted 13th overall last year, and that owners next 2 picks were Bush and Ahman. There is virtually no room for error when making your first few draft selections. I've never gotten past the 3rd round w/out having drafted 2 RB's.

It's also nearly impossible to build depth. Handcuffing your starting RB's is essential, since usually only 2 or 3 owners (if that) have the luxury of having 3 quality backs. Handcuffing is definitely not an afterthought in this type of league. Good backup RB's will go earlier than expected.

You have to draft 2 quality QB's, since there are usually no starters available on the waiver wire during the season. At least a couple times a year a team will have to play a game w/out a starting QB due to byes/injuries, and none being available on the wire.

You can't even take Def/ST for granted, since there are usually no more than 4 or 5 ultra crappy defenses available on the wire.

Also, I think it's absolutely imperative in a 16 teamer that the league has a quality waiver wire system set up, because when a starting RB goes down and his backup happens to still be available, it's like hitting the lotto if you're able to get him.

Trading is tough since depth is so thin. Most trades are big ones.

 

[Tau837]

I'm in a 16 team redraft w/4 divisions and an unbalanced schedule. Start QB, 2 RB, 3 WR/TE, K, Def/ST. Very liberal scoring: all TD's 6 pts, 1 point per 20 yards passing, 1 point per 10 yards rushing/receiving, turnovers -2.

Mine is the same, except TE required and 1/25 passing yards.

RB's are of even more importance in this league. RB's are gold in any league, but are platinum in a 16 teamer. Since there are only 32 starting RB's in the nfl, once the bye weeks start rolling, multiple teams have RB's in their starting lineups who aren't even starters on their nfl team. Last season, guy with the last pick in the draft took CJ and Brady (he was obscenely drunk). He was forced to take both of Denver's Bells with his 3rd and 4th rounders, as his starting RB's. You absolutely have to take a RB with at least one of your first 2 picks or you're toast. If you are drafting toward the bottom of the first round, you are almost forced to go RB-RB, since there will almost surely be no RB2 available when it comes back to you in the 3rd. For example, Manning was drafted 13th overall last year, and that owners next 2 picks were Bush and Ahman. There is virtually no room for error when making your first few draft selections. I've never gotten past the 3rd round w/out having drafted 2 RB's. It's also nearly impossible to build depth. Handcuffing your starting RB's is essential, since usually only 2 or 3 owners (if that) have the luxury of having 3 quality backs. Handcuffing is definitely not an afterthought in this type of league. Good backup RB's will go earlier than expected.

Does the value of handcuffs actually make you prefer to stay away from RBBC? For example, if you draft Bush, you won't be able to get his handcuff, since McAllister will be drafted early himself. So if you had Bush rated very closely with another back who is not in RBBC (e.g., Addai, Maroney, Rudi, Westbrook), does this actually lower Bush slightly?

You have to draft 2 quality QB's, since there are usually no starters available on the waiver wire during the season. At least a couple times a year a team will have to play a game w/out a starting QB due to byes/injuries, and none being available on the wire.

So here is a thought. If you can draft a QB1 you'd be happy with who has an early bye, and also draft a solid (not in bottom 25%) QB2, you could trade the QB2 after the QB1 bye and pick up the QB1's handcuff. I guess this would only work in certain circumstances, but it might be a reason to prefer an early bye for your QB1.

You can't even take Def/ST for granted, since there are usually no more than 4 or 5 ultra crappy defenses available on the wire.

So maybe here is where Defense by committee really works. I haven't needed to use that much in smaller leagues, since it isn't that hard to either draft a top 10 defense or pick one up early off waivers. But in this case, the waiver option probably won't be there. Dexter

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

I joined a 16-team league this year as well where you keep 5 players, and I'm having trouble assigning values to certain types of players.

Hypothetically speaking, who would hold more value in a 16-team league? A first tier yet non-Gates TE (say a Cooley, Witten or Crumpler level) or a strictly mid-range RBBC RB (someone like a Fred Taylor, Foster, CBrown, etc).

I SWEAR that this isn't a "Who Should I Keep?" question - I'm just looking for a more experienced opinion on whether, assuming normal scoring, having marginal RB depth is more important than having to trot out Owen Daniels or Alex Smith as your TE1 every week.

 

[Tau837]

1) actually IMO, the same can be said for Gates and the 16th TE ... he will score alot more ... last year i went RB, Gates, WR as my 1-2-3 and finished with second highest points so you can speculate on a couple RB2's and still pan out well ... just pointing out an example, that Gates can be a good pick in a 16 teamer

That's what I was thinking. Using FBG scoring:2006:QB1 (Manning) finished 131 fantasy points ahead of QB16 (Pennington).QB2 (Brees) finished 86 fantasy points ahead of QB16.TE1 (Gates) finished 90 fantasy points ahead of TE16 (Scaife).So TE1 was better value than any QB but Manning taken through the first few rounds, assuming Gates was taken in the third.2005:QB1 (Palmer) finished 99 fantasy points ahead of QB16 (Brooks).Manning (QB3) finished 75 fantasy points ahead of QB16.TE1 (Gates) finished 104 fantasy points ahead of TE16 (Kinney).So TE1 was better value than any QB taken in the first few rounds.2004:QB1 (Culpepper) finished 199 fantasy points ahead of QB16 (Testaverde and Harrington).Manning (QB2) finished 184 fantasy points ahead of QB16.McNabb (QB3) finished 116 fantasy points ahead of QB16.TE1 (Gates) finished 115 fantasy points ahead of TE16 (Heiden).So TE1 was as good or better value than any QB other than Culpepper and Manning taken in the first few rounds, and they had major outlier seasons.2003:QB1 (Culpepper) finished 102 fantasy points ahead of QB16 (Maddox).Manning (QB2) finished 95 fantasy points ahead of QB16.TE1 (Gonzalez) finished 97 points ahead of TE16 (Ricks and Clark).So TE1 was basically as good a value as any QB taken in the first few rounds.In this kind of format, if you started RB-RB-TE-WR-QB, you'd be behind at WR for sure... but if someone takes Manning, they probably end up going something like QB-RB-RB-WR-WR with a late TE... so the team with Gates is ahead at RB and TE and behind at QB and WR. would the 5th round QB, Gates, and a later WR be better than Manning, 5th round WR, and late TE?I realize this depends on scoring system and draft position, but it's interesting to consider the possibilities.

 

[butcher boy]

Others have touched on it and it's true. 16 teams means you most likely lose if you pick last. I wont join anymore 16 team leagues unless they are auctions.

 

[smackdaddies]

As with almost every league, regardless of size, starting quality RB are key. I drafted 20th in a 20 team league (only played in it one year) - got Barber and Curtis Martin (in Martin's last successful year) in rounds 1/2 (snake draft). Rode that to the 4 team playoffs.

Personally, I would go RB/RB/QB in a big league (in a perfect world). Of course if PM was available at 20th, I would take him, but other than PM, Gotta go RB/RB

 

[Dexter Manley]

Does the value of handcuffs actually make you prefer to stay away from RBBC? For example, if you draft Bush, you won't be able to get his handcuff, since McAllister will be drafted early himself. So if you had Bush rated very closely with another back who is not in RBBC (e.g., Addai, Maroney, Rudi, Westbrook), does this actually lower Bush slightly?

Yea, if I have 2 backs ranked very close and one is RBBC, I downgrade him over the other one. I try and stay away from RBBC unless I can steal one of those guys as my RB3. Last year, for example, I got LJ at 1.3 and Chestor Taylor at 3.3. At 4.13, I grabbed Maroney, because I was gambling that he would eventually win the job due to his play or a Dillon injury, and even if he didn't, I would be able to trade him to a RB desperate owner for at least a WR2. I was able to pick up Norwood at 6.13.Since I got Maroney and Norwood, this allowed me the luxury of not having to handcuff my RB1 and RB2 (I wasn't excited about handcuff options for LJ or Taylor anyways, so this worked out perfectly). In past years, however, I always handcuffed my RB1 and RB2.

So here is a thought. If you can draft a QB1 you'd be happy with who has an early bye, and also draft a solid (not in bottom 25%) QB2, you could trade the QB2 after the QB1 bye and pick up the QB1's handcuff. I guess this would only work in certain circumstances, but it might be a reason to prefer an early bye for your QB1.

That's great if you have confidence in QB1's handcuff, and QB1 >> QB2 so you would never play matchups. I usually draft 2 QB's in the 7 - 10 round range. As far as trading QB's, I'll try and snag new starting QB's off waivers and move them if I can.

So maybe here is where Defense by committee really works. I haven't needed to use that much in smaller leagues, since it isn't that hard to either draft a top 10 defense or pick one up early off waivers. But in this case, the waiver option probably won't be there.

Defense by committee works if your committee consists entirely of the defenses you drafted! Otherwise you have to get really lucky and hope you can get a sleeper defense off waivers in week 1 or 2. I think for you to be able to use a true DBC approach, you have to be able to acquire D/ST's off waivers who have good matchups (i.e. KC Def/ST last year when they played Oakland twice and were on waivers in my 12 team league).

 

[Keg]

16 Team IDP Dynasty Leauges are

 

[Tom Servo]

My 16 team experience (no IDP, no TE required, PPR):

QBs are quite a bit more valuable - 16 starters plus too few quality backups

Absolutely. Though you don't have to have PM to win. My wife and I both won with Vick as our QB1. (Disclaimer: It was 2002 and 2006 when he ran his rear end off.) Point is, you can get by with middle-of-the-pack QBs.

Gates is more valuable - I'm assuming he will again be the top TE

Always is drafted in the 3rd round in my league. Always.

Handcuffs are more important for RBs (and maybe even QBs...?)

It depends. It is important to hit RB1 right. If you pick the right half of a RBBC as your RB2 (or better yet, a couple), then you have flexibility. In my league, RBs go fast and furious; one year, the first 22 picks were RB. At QB, if you have the right combination, you could go for a borderline starter as your QB3 late to dry up the supply and use it as trade bait for a desparate (or drunk) drafter. Chances are slim that you'll get a decent QB off the WW. Most of the QBs are gone by round 9.

What draft position would people prefer? For me, #1 seems obvious... LT plus a 3rd round pick up to 15 picks before an opponent... big gap there. But where does that swing? That is, after 1... 2... 3... ? perhaps it becomes more valuable to have a later first round pick...

Champions have come from all over the board. My wife won last year from the #1 spot. I won my titles drafting from #12 and #16. Drafting for value and not reaching makes draft position irrelevant IMO.

Does this make players like Rudi and Peyton more valuable because of their reliability/durability... or does upside become even more important?

Not necessarily. Rudi is popular in my league because it's based in Columbus which drives his draft spot up slightly. PM has never been on a title team in this league. The guy my wife beat for the title got there on the strength of drafting MJD and picking up Colston early off the WW. Basically, it comes down to a combination of value and your gut instincts...and a bit of luck.

Are trades easier or harder in this type of league? Seems like rosters will be thinner, and thus a good drafter who builds depth may be able to more easily swing 2 for 1 upgrades...

Trades are MUCH harder in my league. Everyone is scared of getting screwed in a trade and really upsetting the competitive balance. 95% of all roster turnover is due to WW.On the whole, I think you'll be fine. Jump in with both feet and don't look back.

 

[Beaumont]

16 Team IDP Dynasty Leauges are

 

[Tau837]

Bumping this for another round of feedback (hopefully). Draft is in one week. I drew the 3rd pick. Still trying to figure out strategy.

 

[Synthesizer]

So from what I'm reading in this thread, a 16 team league makes QBs, RBs, and TEs more valuable. I'm surprised that WRs aren't more valuable too.

 

[crnerblitz]

I'm in a longstanding 16 team dynasty league with several team owners "in" the industry. The first thig is that the most valuable thing in the league is first round rookie picks, they are your teams life blood. I cannot stress that enough. Value them accordingly when cosidering a trade involving future picks.

If rookie picks are the life blood then RB's are the beating heart of your team. Only a handfull of teams will have 2 starting runningbacks in 08 and beyond. Make sure your team is one of them. It will be immposible to get anything resembling a RB prospect of the waiver wire. Trading for one requires an act of Congress and 2 first rounders. When you find yourself 3 deep at RB you can't hardly consider trading one because of value. Starting 2 on bye weeks when others dont even have one RB to start can win you games. Considered along with the added advantage of removing one more starter from the league pool and you can see the value of remaining 3 deep.

Oh, and yes, the difference between Manning and QB #16 can win a weekly game. Unless he has 2 RB starters and you dont. Then your hung out to dry.

HTH.

 

[nittanylion]

I wont join anymore 16 team leagues unless they are auctions.

Just my opinion, but I think that quote is the underlying truth within every post in this thread, and based on my own experiences, it's completely validated.Positional Scarcity absolutely mandates that in Leagues carrying more than 12 Teams, you MUST give EVERY TEAM access to EVERY PLAYER, and let them make their own decisions about how to allocate their resources in an attempt to build a Championship Squad. Unless you really modify roster sizes and starting lineup sizes (with larger Leagues, both ought to be larger as well - and I'm not talking about just adding a flex player or 2, we're talking 24 Rounds + and 12 + Players in Starting Lineups), you're really selling your League short by holding a Serpentine Draft. Unless you're involved in a Survivor League, or a 'Draft N Go' Format, I'd strongly advocate doing everything in your power to convince your Leaguemates that Auction Drafting is the only way to go. The larger the League size, the more luck can play a role in how the Season plays out. Utilizing an Auction for initial player disbursement will add back an emphasis on skill that will improve your League across the board. Give it some serious thought...

 

[roadkill1292]

I wont join anymore 16 team leagues unless they are auctions.

Just my opinion, but I think that quote is the underlying truth within every post in this thread, and based on my own experiences, it's completely validated.Positional Scarcity absolutely mandates that in Leagues carrying more than 12 Teams, you MUST give EVERY TEAM access to EVERY PLAYER, and let them make their own decisions about how to allocate their resources in an attempt to build a Championship Squad. Unless you really modify roster sizes and starting lineup sizes (with larger Leagues, both ought to be larger as well - and I'm not talking about just adding a flex player or 2, we're talking 24 Rounds + and 12 + Players in Starting Lineups), you're really selling your League short by holding a Serpentine Draft. Unless you're involved in a Survivor League, or a 'Draft N Go' Format, I'd strongly advocate doing everything in your power to convince your Leaguemates that Auction Drafting is the only way to go. The larger the League size, the more luck can play a role in how the Season plays out. Utilizing an Auction for initial player disbursement will add back an emphasis on skill that will improve your League across the board. Give it some serious thought...

 

[AngryGorilla]

bump for more input. my regular league expanded to 16 teams this year, typically 13 or 14.

any WR insight from those with experience.

16 team, 18 man roster

starts:

1 QB

2 RBs

3 WRS

1 flex rb/wr

1 TE

kicker and

D/ST

 

[AngryGorilla]

bump for any more thoughts