16 vs. 32-team league (advice wanted) (1 Viewer)

[TheMathNinja]

Hey Sharks,

Right now I run a Deluxe League on MFL that is a 32-team redraft league with one player universe for each 16-team conference (basically functioning as two side-by-side 16-team leagues). The only interaction between the two leagues is the annual "Super Bowl". Otherwise, the initial auctions are separate, teams don't play each other, can't trade between conferences, etc. Recently, I've been wondering about making it a single 32-team league but with two copies of each player (MFL's "2 rosters per player" feature). Have any of you made this transition, or played in both kinds of leagues? Right now I have the following pro-con list (of moving to a single 32-team league), and wanted you guys to weigh in.

PROS:
1. The league fee is cheaper ($70 instead of $140; adds $70 to the pot)
2. More potential trade partners and more competition (competing against 31 teams instead of 15) means more fun.
3. Since we have an NFL theme, this adds an element of NFL realism.
4. We would like to transition to Dynasty one day; this allows us to try a new format to see if we like it before cementing one for the long term.
5. Diminishes the frustration of "I can't believe that player went for such a different price in the other conference!" or "I can't believe how easy that other conference is!"

CONS:
1. Initial auction gets more complex, or long, or both. In the past, we did a 7-day slow auction with a max of 150 players on the board at one time (rosters are 34 players; usually a team takes 30 in the initial auction...so 480 auctioned players total for 16 teams). This was a great fit and pace for us. MFL's software doesn't allow both copies of the same player to be on the board at one time, though. So now if Andrew Luck goes off the board on Day 4, his second copy can't get nominated until that same time on Day 4. This means I might have filled 40% of my roster before I get to bid on Luck if I didn't like his price the first time, but am targeting him. Also, keeping the limit at 150 at a time probably makes the auction ~11 days; doubling it to 300 probably keeps it at 7, but makes it a lot harder to sort out all that's happening on the board at once. We are considering a "funnel" solution of starting the limit smaller (~200) and expanding the limit daily, eventually to 300.

Could you weigh in on other pros or cons I'm not seeing? Any experience with this? Thanks!

 

[Arodin]

Your analysis seems thorough and sound.  I've not tried any such league, but it sounds fun and challenging.

The only caution I would offer is to make sure your league management site can handle multiple copies of a player in a single league.

 

[Biabreakable]

For the last 2 years David Yudkin has been running a 32 team total points league including playoffs that I have participated in.

It is a very challenging format. Each player you have is very important. Having an early pick in this format is more advantageous than it is in smaller leagues. You are doing an auction so those types of concerns wouldn't apply to your league,

Does your league use individual defensive players?

If you did use IDP with scoring for them that is competitive with the offensive players that would greatly expand the player pool to the point where it might be more similar to the scarcity of a 16 team league.

16 teams has a pretty nice balance. 32 is more of an NFL feel and makes any good player you might have magnified. Extending this to a dynasty league could be very interesting. A super team in this format only needs to acquire 3-4 top players to dominate most head to head match ups (are you playing HtH or all play or what?)

Pros

Challenging fun unique format for FF

Cons

Teams may lose interest if one team builds a roster too strong, especially in a dynasty format. 

I think if you did transition this to a dynasty league, you perhaps should use some form of contract system, so some players are returned to the draft pool each year, enabling worse teams to get better.

 

[TheMathNinja]

Yes we use IDP players. But take note that roster strength is still the same as in the 16-team format, since we are still using two copies of every player in the 32-team format. And yes, we would use a contract/cap system for Dynasty.

 

[Biabreakable]

Ok so only using one NFL roster to draft from instead of two will be more scarcity not filled by IDP as you already use them. This will require owners to dig twice as deep on both sides of the ball to fill out their rosters.

Here is a link to our 2015 draft of 32 teams only taking offensive players. This format also uses team QB. if not for that people may be able to hoard QB and keep some teams from having a viable (although really bad) starter.

As you can see from the above draft the last picks are not good, but they are not as bad as you might think. Justin Hunter, Brent Celek, Dri Archer are all late picks who at least contributed some points. If you have IDP also then some of these players likely would not be rostered. On the IDP side there is plenty of depth to go around.

Owners who are used to your current format would definitely need to dig deeper than before, but I think there are enough viable NFL players to support it.

 

[Biabreakable]

So a new con would be how to deal with the QB scarcity issue?

Using team QB is a way to solve it, but that isn't really ideal, however may be necessary for a 32 team league.

Another interesting thing to consider if you did transition this to dynasty is that rookie picks after the 1st round will not have much value. Even with adding many quality IDP prospects to the mix 32 picks will cover most if not all of the good rookie prospects. 2nd and 3rd round rookie picks in such a format will be really grasping at straws.

Depending on if you use contact lengths ( which could be based on the auction bid with an incrementally increasing salary from there with a salary cap that forces teams to make tough decisions during their auction and in years following that) or not will have some effect on rookie picks. Without that the only way for teams to add new talent would be through the draft. Maybe every once in awhile a free agent slips through, but with this many teams there won't be much there.

 

[Arodin]

Even with team qb, how do you handle bye weeks in a 32-team league?  Each team could only carry a single team's qb or someone has no weekly starter, and the  everyone has to go a bye week without a qb.

Having two copies of each player addresses this, so I guess Im really asking Bia how his league handles that.

 

[Biabreakable]

Well Davids league is total points. So everyone has a bye where their team QB (and other players) will not be used, but that doesn't matter because every player will have their bye at some point.

There is no waiver wire except for the first week each team is allowed to replace one player they drafted. My choice was Aaron Dobson who had a good week right after I picked him up but then nothing. Brady really doesn't like Dobson for some reason I guess.

 

[TheMathNinja]

TeamQB is not needed. With two of every QB in the player pool, there is not a scarcity issue.

 

[Arodin]

TeamQB is not needed. With two of every QB in the player pool, there is not a scarcity issue.

Until a couple people decide to hedge against injuries by drafing third QBs before othet teams take  second off the board.  I never was in a 32-team league, but I was in a 20-teamer where multiple teams had no QB by midseason, and lacked the waiver priority to get backups.

Maybe a position cap instead of teamQB is in order.

 

[TheMathNinja]

We've never had this issue in the past. Shouldn't change with the shift.

 

[Biabreakable]

TeamQB is not needed. With two of every QB in the player pool, there is not a scarcity issue.

As your league structure is now, no there isn't much of a scarcity issue. But if you changed this to only one of each player being available and 32 teams, then it will be.

I thought that is what you were considering doing?

 

[TheMathNinja]

No, the change is to two of each player being available to 32 teams; rather than one of each player available to 16 teams.

 

[massraider]

No, the change is to two of each player being available to 32 teams; rather than one of each player available to 16 teams.

Well, sounds pretty awesome.  Count me in if you looking for new owners.

 Rookie draft would be interesting.  1st overall pick?  Zeke Elliott.  2nd overall pick?  Zeke Elliott.  

There would be no rules against that, I assume?  Someone could have both of any player on their roster?

 

[TheMathNinja]

Well, sounds pretty awesome.  Count me in if you looking for new owners.

 Rookie draft would be interesting.  1st overall pick?  Zeke


Elliott


.  2nd overall pick?  Zeke


Elliott


.  

There would be no rules against that, I assume?  Someone could have both of any player on their roster?

Correct, Zeke Elliot would likely be 1st and 2nd overall pick in the rookie draft. And the rookie draft would have 32 picks per round! But no, someone could not have both of a single player on their roster. MFL does not allow for that, nor is that a very appealing idea for me.

 

[massraider]

Correct, Zeke Elliot would likely be 1st and 2nd overall pick in the rookie draft. And the rookie draft would have 32 picks per round! But no, someone could not have both of a single player on their roster. MFL does not allow for that, nor is that a very appealing idea for me.

Yeah, not appealing, just struck me as an interesting possibility.  

Biggest issue I see is finding 32 decent owners.  

 

[TheMathNinja]

We already have 32 good owners, thankfully.