20+ MLB players to be suspended? Braun, A-Rod? (1 Viewer)

[Yankee23Fan]

I love the contrast between Brewers fans, who would still defend Braun if they could find a way and Yankees fans, who are leading the lynch mob.

Yeah, I never liked the guy. Although my "bloodlust" here if you want to call it that, is simply to be done with the whole thing. I'm tired of the PED talk. I don't care what they take now they take it or why they take it. I really don't. Inject anything you want into your body. I find a lot of the PED talk ridiculous in this day and age. Mickey Mantle took cortizone shots to keep playing and Hank Aaron admitted to taking amphetamines. They are really no different to me than steriods at this point. And I'll even go down the slippery slope of saying better nutrition, over the counter medicines and medical care all play a part as well. There are just different eras in the game and athletes of all shapes and sizes will always eat drink ingest inject wipe breath or transplant anything they can into and onto their bodies to get an edge and, ultimately, entertain me. Go for it. Don't care.

And I'm just tired of it. It's going to take the decapitation of a major star to finally get us close to the end of this talk being the most important in baseball. So, do it already. And get it over with so we can move on.

be honest

if he was leading the league in home runs and the yanks were in first place you'd not be wanting him gone....

you may still not LIKE him, but you would not want him gone nor would the yankees

his prima donna 'tude an his roids are tolerable when he performs, his problem is he is not performing

All true. I admit to being a fan. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[Abraham]

I love the contrast between Brewers fans, who would still defend Braun if they could find a way and Yankees fans, who are leading the lynch mob.

MB & RN can confirm this, but Ive been one of the few supporters of the guy throughout the years. Even I cant support him anymore. The guy is a vile cheater and habitual liar that needs to be removed from the game.The two questions I have are, why would he lie about this but tell the truth about the first test he failed? And I always thought of ARod as a very selfish guy who only cared about himself. Why on Earth would he help other players get PEDs from the Biogenesis clinic? This makes no sense to me.

Agreed. I guess the argument could be made that he wanted to be liked and accepted by his peers. But I'm not seeing the "he helped others" angle.

 

[B-Deep]

I love the contrast between Brewers fans, who would still defend Braun if they could find a way and Yankees fans, who are leading the lynch mob.

Yeah, I never liked the guy. Although my "bloodlust" here if you want to call it that, is simply to be done with the whole thing. I'm tired of the PED talk. I don't care what they take now they take it or why they take it. I really don't. Inject anything you want into your body. I find a lot of the PED talk ridiculous in this day and age. Mickey Mantle took cortizone shots to keep playing and Hank Aaron admitted to taking amphetamines. They are really no different to me than steriods at this point. And I'll even go down the slippery slope of saying better nutrition, over the counter medicines and medical care all play a part as well. There are just different eras in the game and athletes of all shapes and sizes will always eat drink ingest inject wipe breath or transplant anything they can into and onto their bodies to get an edge and, ultimately, entertain me. Go for it. Don't care.

And I'm just tired of it. It's going to take the decapitation of a major star to finally get us close to the end of this talk being the most important in baseball. So, do it already. And get it over with so we can move on.

be honest

if he was leading the league in home runs and the yanks were in first place you'd not be wanting him gone....

you may still not LIKE him, but you would not want him gone nor would the yankees

his prima donna 'tude an his roids are tolerable when he performs, his problem is he is not performing

All true. I admit to being a fan. I don't see anything wrong with that.

nothing wrong at all

I'm a cowboys fan, i cheered for Micheal Irvin

i still feel a bit dirty about that

 

[Joe McGee]

I haven't caught up with this thread. Did someone already post that 15 games of Braun's suspension were for the previous testosterone test and appeal? From CNNSI...

In announcing Ryan Braun's 65-game suspension last week, MLB cited violations of both the labor contract and drug agreement.

A person familiar with that deal, speaking on condition of anonymity because no statements were authorized, said 50 games of the penalty for the 2011 NL MVP were connected to Biogenesis. The additional 15 games stemmed from the Milwaukee outfielder's actions during the grievance that overturned his October 2011 positive test for testosterone.

 

[B-Deep]

I haven't caught up with this thread. Did someone already post that 15 games of Braun's suspension were for the previous testosterone test and appeal? From CNNSI...

In announcing Ryan Braun's 65-game suspension last week, MLB cited violations of both the labor contract and drug agreement.

A person familiar with that deal, speaking on condition of anonymity because no statements were authorized, said 50 games of the penalty for the 2011 NL MVP were connected to Biogenesis. The additional 15 games stemmed from the Milwaukee outfielder's actions during the grievance that overturned his October 2011 positive test for testosterone.

listen

some Braunites (some not all) won't even admit that this is an admission that he used PEDS

an anonymous source ain;t gonna cut it here

for all we know he slugged the commissioner in their meeting and THAT got him 65 games

 

[Disco Stu]

I love the contrast between Brewers fans, who would still defend Braun if they could find a way and Yankees fans, who are leading the lynch mob.

MB & RN can confirm this, but Ive been one of the few supporters of the guy throughout the years. Even I cant support him anymore. The guy is a vile cheater and habitual liar that needs to be removed from the game.The two questions I have are, why would he lie about this but tell the truth about the first test he failed? And I always thought of ARod as a very selfish guy who only cared about himself. Why on Earth would he help other players get PEDs from the Biogenesis clinic? This makes no sense to me.

Agreed. I guess the argument could be made that he wanted to be liked and accepted by his peers. But I'm not seeing the "he helped others" angle.

It could be a "I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine" type of thing. Similar to his alleged pitch tipping.

 

[dparker713]

I haven't caught up with this thread. Did someone already post that 15 games of Braun's suspension were for the previous testosterone test and appeal? From CNNSI...

In announcing Ryan Braun's 65-game suspension last week, MLB cited violations of both the labor contract and drug agreement.

A person familiar with that deal, speaking on condition of anonymity because no statements were authorized, said 50 games of the penalty for the 2011 NL MVP were connected to Biogenesis. The additional 15 games stemmed from the Milwaukee outfielder's actions during the grievance that overturned his October 2011 positive test for testosterone.

I highly doubt that would be the formal reason for the extra 15 games.

 

[Joe McGee]

I haven't caught up with this thread. Did someone already post that 15 games of Braun's suspension were for the previous testosterone test and appeal? From CNNSI...

In announcing Ryan Braun's 65-game suspension last week, MLB cited violations of both the labor contract and drug agreement.

A person familiar with that deal, speaking on condition of anonymity because no statements were authorized, said 50 games of the penalty for the 2011 NL MVP were connected to Biogenesis. The additional 15 games stemmed from the Milwaukee outfielder's actions during the grievance that overturned his October 2011 positive test for testosterone.

I highly doubt that would be the formal reason for the extra 15 games.

I find it interesting in regards to the Arod situation since they're trying to circumvent the drug policy and give him a stronger sentence.

 

[randall146]

I haven't caught up with this thread. Did someone already post that 15 games of Braun's suspension were for the previous testosterone test and appeal? From CNNSI...



In announcing Ryan Braun's 65-game suspension last week, MLB cited violations of both the labor contract and drug agreement.

A person familiar with that deal, speaking on condition of anonymity because no statements were authorized, said 50 games of the penalty for the 2011 NL MVP were connected to Biogenesis. The additional 15 games stemmed from the Milwaukee outfielder's actions during the grievance that overturned his October 2011 positive test for testosterone.

listensome Braunites (some not all) won't even admit that this is an admission that he used PEDS

an anonymous source ain;t gonna cut it here

for all we know he slugged the commissioner in their meeting and THAT got him 65 games

Selig MADE UP that Braun slugged him. Braun didn't want to drag Selig's name through the mud, so he chose to just accept the wrongful suspension. Best interests of baseball

 

[Michael Brown]

If A-Rod was hitting .350 with 40 HR and 100 RBI right now, I'd want him suspended. Choose to not believe me if you wish, but I hated Gary Sheffield the entire time he was putting up great stats for the Yanks. I'm a baseball fan first and a Yankee fan second, and I want nothing to do with steroid cheats.

Every game, from Monopoly up to MLB, has rules. Without rules, you have a different game. If you break the rules, you don't get to play.

 

[flapgreen]

Very strange things going on.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Bud should boot himself under that best interest of the game provision.

 

[The General]

It's pretty incredible to me the amount of crap ARod is willing to go through. Takes an enormous combination of delusion and arrogance wrapped in egomania. If the reports are correct all the other players connected to this place are negotiating with MLB. MLB has the most to work with against ARod including he tried to buy the evidence back from the guy for a substantial amount of money. But the guy is just going to act like this is all made up. Its actually amazing.

I bet even Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are impressed by the balls on this guy.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Do you think he has a future in baseball in some capacity?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

If so, who is hiring him? And to do what?

 

[Judge Smails]

What a fall this guy has taken. I thought he was a lock to break Bonds tainted record, first ballot hall of famer, etc. Now he's just delusional. Maybe he figured denial worked for Clemens. I dunno. Absolutely despise him now.

 

[Daywalker]

Bud is an employee of the owners. The Yankees could be pushing Bud to suspend Arod under this "integrity of the game" rule. I imagine fellow owners would want to hang the Yanks out to dry but they also might want to set this precedent in order to void a horrible contract of their own.

 

[dparker713]

It's pretty incredible to me the amount of crap ARod is willing to go through. Takes an enormous combination of delusion and arrogance wrapped in egomania. If the reports are correct all the other players connected to this place are negotiating with MLB. MLB has the most to work with against ARod including he tried to buy the evidence back from the guy for a substantial amount of money. But the guy is just going to act like this is all made up. Its actually amazing.

I bet even Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are impressed by the balls on this guy.

What lengths would you go to protect 30+ million dollars?

 

[Abraham]

It's pretty incredible to me the amount of crap ARod is willing to go through. Takes an enormous combination of delusion and arrogance wrapped in egomania. If the reports are correct all the other players connected to this place are negotiating with MLB. MLB has the most to work with against ARod including he tried to buy the evidence back from the guy for a substantial amount of money. But the guy is just going to act like this is all made up. Its actually amazing.

I bet even Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are impressed by the balls on this guy.

I imagine that every day he isn't suspended is money the yankees have to pay him. If he gets suspended for 100 games (or more) I imagine the Yankees will be working overtime to find a way to void the rest of his contract. There is a LOT of money at stake for him and for the team so I'm not all that surprised that he wants to serve the team a big #### burger while collecting his paycheck. He also has the funds to mount a rigorous defense that could put baseball in a position they don't want to be in (as someone else mentioned regarding anti-trust exemptions and keeping their books closed).

 

[dparker713]

If A-Rod was hitting .350 with 40 HR and 100 RBI right now, I'd want him suspended. Choose to not believe me if you wish, but I hated Gary Sheffield the entire time he was putting up great stats for the Yanks. I'm a baseball fan first and a Yankee fan second, and I want nothing to do with steroid cheats.

Every game, from Monopoly up to MLB, has rules. Without rules, you have a different game. If you break the rules, you don't get to play.

I agree. We should suspend for 100 games any player that steps out of the batters box without being granted time and any pitcher that takes longer than 12 seconds to pitch with the bases empty.

 

[The General]

It's pretty incredible to me the amount of crap ARod is willing to go through. Takes an enormous combination of delusion and arrogance wrapped in egomania. If the reports are correct all the other players connected to this place are negotiating with MLB. MLB has the most to work with against ARod including he tried to buy the evidence back from the guy for a substantial amount of money. But the guy is just going to act like this is all made up. Its actually amazing.

I bet even Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are impressed by the balls on this guy.

What lengths would you go to protect 30+ million dollars?

How much is he going to have to spend in his defense? Does he want to have any type of public life / name after this thing is over? I'd personally measure those things out and choose to not go down the road he's taking. I guess he can gamble and drag this thing out, if he "wins" he looks forward to years of playing while being hated by vast majority of fans, and probably many players on field.

How's about not being dumb enough to put yourself in this position in the first place.

 

[B-Deep]

It's pretty incredible to me the amount of crap ARod is willing to go through. Takes an enormous combination of delusion and arrogance wrapped in egomania. If the reports are correct all the other players connected to this place are negotiating with MLB. MLB has the most to work with against ARod including he tried to buy the evidence back from the guy for a substantial amount of money. But the guy is just going to act like this is all made up. Its actually amazing.

I bet even Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are impressed by the balls on this guy.

What lengths would you go to protect 30+ million dollars?

How much is he going to have to spend in his defense? Does he want to have any type of public life / name after this thing is over? I'd personally measure those things out and choose to not go down the road he's taking. I guess he can gamble and drag this thing out, if he "wins" he looks forward to years of playing while being hated by vast majority of fans, and probably many players on field.

How's about not being dumb enough to put yourself in this position in the first place.

i am sure MLBPA is gonna assist

and he is already hated

 

[Yankee23Fan]

If A-Rod was hitting .350 with 40 HR and 100 RBI right now, I'd want him suspended. Choose to not believe me if you wish, but I hated Gary Sheffield the entire time he was putting up great stats for the Yanks. I'm a baseball fan first and a Yankee fan second, and I want nothing to do with steroid cheats.

Every game, from Monopoly up to MLB, has rules. Without rules, you have a different game. If you break the rules, you don't get to play.

I agree. We should suspend for 100 games any player that steps out of the batters box without being granted time and any pitcher that takes longer than 12 seconds to pitch with the bases empty.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you have such a semmingly large hate for this "thing" that is going on?

 

[Angry Beavers]

It's pretty incredible to me the amount of crap ARod is willing to go through. Takes an enormous combination of delusion and arrogance wrapped in egomania. If the reports are correct all the other players connected to this place are negotiating with MLB. MLB has the most to work with against ARod including he tried to buy the evidence back from the guy for a substantial amount of money. But the guy is just going to act like this is all made up. Its actually amazing.

I bet even Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are impressed by the balls on this guy.

What lengths would you go to protect 30+ million dollars?

It is not just the 30 million he loses by taking the rest of this season and next season as a punishment. He has years on his guaranteed contract left after 2014 that is he risking by chancing getting a lifetime ban. The question really is more like why risk 30 million when you take a deal and keep the other 100 million?

 

[dparker713]

If A-Rod was hitting .350 with 40 HR and 100 RBI right now, I'd want him suspended. Choose to not believe me if you wish, but I hated Gary Sheffield the entire time he was putting up great stats for the Yanks. I'm a baseball fan first and a Yankee fan second, and I want nothing to do with steroid cheats.

Every game, from Monopoly up to MLB, has rules. Without rules, you have a different game. If you break the rules, you don't get to play.

I agree. We should suspend for 100 games any player that steps out of the batters box without being granted time and any pitcher that takes longer than 12 seconds to pitch with the bases empty.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you have such a semmingly large hate for this "thing" that is going on?

I don't think this is in the best interests of baseball. Have a drug testing program. Suspend players that get caught. Move on. The investigation, if it were going to happen, should have been done discretely.

If the league hadn't leaked Braun's positive test, we'd have never heard of his appeal and then they wouldn't have egg on their face for losing and feel the need to get him. If they'd basically ignored the Biogenesis report, this would have been old news months ago. If they'd kept leak free, this wouldn't have been the only baseball topic people have mentioned outside of Puig and Chris Davis.

Plus, I feel like the players involved are getting railroaded. Suspending Braun extra time for winning an appeal? Giving players extra time for not cooperating? Suspending a player without recourse because you don't like him? MLB has been bullies since the start of this thing - intimidating witnesses, abusing the discovery process, paying for testimony, using connections to sway the Feds.

I feel no moral outrage over the use of steroids or other drugs, many of which would be prescribed for legitimate purposes. The line between what is and is not allowed is fairly arbitrary. I also feel no outrage over public figures lying in the press. That's partially a price of a PC society, and partially just human nature.

Also, I see ARod along the lines of TO. Sure, he's weird and does stupid things, but he's hardly the worst human being in the league as so many seem to want to make him. He's also one of the greatest players to ever live and I'd rather watch him play than have him banned from the league.

 

[NCCommish]

If A-Rod was hitting .350 with 40 HR and 100 RBI right now, I'd want him suspended. Choose to not believe me if you wish, but I hated Gary Sheffield the entire time he was putting up great stats for the Yanks. I'm a baseball fan first and a Yankee fan second, and I want nothing to do with steroid cheats.

Every game, from Monopoly up to MLB, has rules. Without rules, you have a different game. If you break the rules, you don't get to play.

I agree. We should suspend for 100 games any player that steps out of the batters box without being granted time and any pitcher that takes longer than 12 seconds to pitch with the bases empty.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you have such a semmingly large hate for this "thing" that is going on?

I don't think this is in the best interests of baseball. Have a drug testing program. Suspend players that get caught. Move on. The investigation, if it were going to happen, should have been done discretely.

If the league hadn't leaked Braun's positive test, we'd have never heard of his appeal and then they wouldn't have egg on their face for losing and feel the need to get him. If they'd basically ignored the Biogenesis report, this would have been old news months ago. If they'd kept leak free, this wouldn't have been the only baseball topic people have mentioned outside of Puig and Chris Davis.

Plus, I feel like the players involved are getting railroaded. Suspending Braun extra time for winning an appeal? Giving players extra time for not cooperating? Suspending a player without recourse because you don't like him? MLB has been bullies since the start of this thing - intimidating witnesses, abusing the discovery process, paying for testimony, using connections to sway the Feds.

I feel no moral outrage over the use of steroids or other drugs, many of which would be prescribed for legitimate purposes. The line between what is and is not allowed is fairly arbitrary. I also feel no outrage over public figures lying in the press. That's partially a price of a PC society, and partially just human nature.

Also, I see ARod along the lines of TO. Sure, he's weird and does stupid things, but he's hardly the worst human being in the league as so many seem to want to make him. He's also one of the greatest players to ever live and I'd rather watch him play than have him banned from the league.

So if they would have just ignored the evidence then it would all be honky dory?

 

[dparker713]

It's pretty incredible to me the amount of crap ARod is willing to go through. Takes an enormous combination of delusion and arrogance wrapped in egomania. If the reports are correct all the other players connected to this place are negotiating with MLB. MLB has the most to work with against ARod including he tried to buy the evidence back from the guy for a substantial amount of money. But the guy is just going to act like this is all made up. Its actually amazing.

I bet even Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are impressed by the balls on this guy.

What lengths would you go to protect 30+ million dollars?

It is not just the 30 million he loses by taking the rest of this season and next season as a punishment. He has years on his guaranteed contract left after 2014 that is he risking by chancing getting a lifetime ban. The question really is more like why risk 30 million when you take a deal and keep the other 100 million?

They're coming after the whole contract whether or not he takes a plea. And I'm sorry, but I fail to see how they could make a lifetime ban stick under the JDA. That requires 3 different offenses, which under the terms of the agreement need to occur from different events.

 

[dparker713]

If A-Rod was hitting .350 with 40 HR and 100 RBI right now, I'd want him suspended. Choose to not believe me if you wish, but I hated Gary Sheffield the entire time he was putting up great stats for the Yanks. I'm a baseball fan first and a Yankee fan second, and I want nothing to do with steroid cheats.

Every game, from Monopoly up to MLB, has rules. Without rules, you have a different game. If you break the rules, you don't get to play.

I agree. We should suspend for 100 games any player that steps out of the batters box without being granted time and any pitcher that takes longer than 12 seconds to pitch with the bases empty.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you have such a semmingly large hate for this "thing" that is going on?

I don't think this is in the best interests of baseball. Have a drug testing program. Suspend players that get caught. Move on. The investigation, if it were going to happen, should have been done discretely.

If the league hadn't leaked Braun's positive test, we'd have never heard of his appeal and then they wouldn't have egg on their face for losing and feel the need to get him. If they'd basically ignored the Biogenesis report, this would have been old news months ago. If they'd kept leak free, this wouldn't have been the only baseball topic people have mentioned outside of Puig and Chris Davis.

Plus, I feel like the players involved are getting railroaded. Suspending Braun extra time for winning an appeal? Giving players extra time for not cooperating? Suspending a player without recourse because you don't like him? MLB has been bullies since the start of this thing - intimidating witnesses, abusing the discovery process, paying for testimony, using connections to sway the Feds.

I feel no moral outrage over the use of steroids or other drugs, many of which would be prescribed for legitimate purposes. The line between what is and is not allowed is fairly arbitrary. I also feel no outrage over public figures lying in the press. That's partially a price of a PC society, and partially just human nature.

Also, I see ARod along the lines of TO. Sure, he's weird and does stupid things, but he's hardly the worst human being in the league as so many seem to want to make him. He's also one of the greatest players to ever live and I'd rather watch him play than have him banned from the league.

So if they would have just ignored the evidence then it would all be honky dory?

Who's still talking about deer antler spray?

 

[roadkill1292]

Where are the players' associations (baseball and football in particular) on steroids usage these days? While wishing to protect the rights of players who are undergoing investigation, I would think that the unions would nevertheless support steroid prohibition on the grounds that players abiding by the rules are at a competitive disadvantage.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

If A-Rod was hitting .350 with 40 HR and 100 RBI right now, I'd want him suspended. Choose to not believe me if you wish, but I hated Gary Sheffield the entire time he was putting up great stats for the Yanks. I'm a baseball fan first and a Yankee fan second, and I want nothing to do with steroid cheats.

Every game, from Monopoly up to MLB, has rules. Without rules, you have a different game. If you break the rules, you don't get to play.

I agree. We should suspend for 100 games any player that steps out of the batters box without being granted time and any pitcher that takes longer than 12 seconds to pitch with the bases empty.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you have such a semmingly large hate for this "thing" that is going on?

I don't think this is in the best interests of baseball. Have a drug testing program. Suspend players that get caught. Move on. The investigation, if it were going to happen, should have been done discretely.

If the league hadn't leaked Braun's positive test, we'd have never heard of his appeal and then they wouldn't have egg on their face for losing and feel the need to get him. If they'd basically ignored the Biogenesis report, this would have been old news months ago. If they'd kept leak free, this wouldn't have been the only baseball topic people have mentioned outside of Puig and Chris Davis.

Plus, I feel like the players involved are getting railroaded. Suspending Braun extra time for winning an appeal? Giving players extra time for not cooperating? Suspending a player without recourse because you don't like him? MLB has been bullies since the start of this thing - intimidating witnesses, abusing the discovery process, paying for testimony, using connections to sway the Feds.

I feel no moral outrage over the use of steroids or other drugs, many of which would be prescribed for legitimate purposes. The line between what is and is not allowed is fairly arbitrary. I also feel no outrage over public figures lying in the press. That's partially a price of a PC society, and partially just human nature.

Also, I see ARod along the lines of TO. Sure, he's weird and does stupid things, but he's hardly the worst human being in the league as so many seem to want to make him. He's also one of the greatest players to ever live and I'd rather watch him play than have him banned from the league.

Fair enough. I would only add this counterpoint. I think baseball is making it all public as much as they are because of the history of the game for the past 30 years and Selig is fighting against that - or at least that is what he is trying to lead everyone to believe. I too don't care what they take and overall don't really care about the story in that regard at all. ARod is getting railroaded as the central figure at the moment, I agree. And I'm ok with it simply because of what I said before. The only way to get the point that you want it to get to or I want it to get to is if they "kill" someone and make him the example. From there they have enough internal credibility to do what you want them to do.

I could be wrong. I just want the whole thing over with. I still can't figure out why everyone is up in arms over steriods anyway. The old dying baseball writers don't speak for baseball fans at all and they need to realize that. They think they are more important than the game the way the umpires did. They are wrong. Different world now and every time I hear their opinion on anything I want to laugh.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Where are the players' associations (baseball and football in particular) on steroids usage these days? While wishing to protect the rights of players who are undergoing investigation, I would think that the unions would nevertheless support steroid prohibition on the grounds that players abiding by the rules are at a competitive disadvantage.

I don't really have much hard evidence, but this is my general feeling and speculation.

It seems evident that each progressive CBA in baseball is agreeing to more and more in terms of suspensions for players, no? It is a cultural norm thing that I would expect to continue. As many have noted, cheating is an accepted art in baseball for many, though not all, things. I would say that steroid usage was an outgrowth of that culture. But then it hit its peak and some players were shamed and there was more education of younger kids as to the dangers of steroids, so there has been a gradual cultural shift among players to not be ok with steroids, and thus the above mindset will be taking hold more and more.

 

[James Daulton]

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but why did the Yanks give Arod that stupid contract in the 1st place? Wasn't he getting out of his prime at the time he signed?

 

[B-Deep]

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but why did the Yanks give Arod that stupid contract in the 1st place? Wasn't he getting out of his prime at the time he signed?

to reap the rewards of him breaking Bonds HR record and becoming the champion for clean players

opps

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but why did the Yanks give Arod that stupid contract in the 1st place? Wasn't he getting out of his prime at the time he signed?

Cashman got overruled, which is happening a lot and he almost always ends up being right. And they thought they were paying for the "clean" homerun race and record breaker

 

[B-Deep]

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but why did the Yanks give Arod that stupid contract in the 1st place? Wasn't he getting out of his prime at the time he signed?

Cashman got overruled, which is happening a lot and he almost always ends up being right. And they thought they were paying for the "clean" homerun race and record breaker

it seems strange to even type that now!

but that was the belief

 

[roadkill1292]

Where are the players' associations (baseball and football in particular) on steroids usage these days? While wishing to protect the rights of players who are undergoing investigation, I would think that the unions would nevertheless support steroid prohibition on the grounds that players abiding by the rules are at a competitive disadvantage.

I don't really have much hard evidence, but this is my general feeling and speculation.

It seems evident that each progressive CBA in baseball is agreeing to more and more in terms of suspensions for players, no? It is a cultural norm thing that I would expect to continue. As many have noted, cheating is an accepted art in baseball for many, though not all, things. I would say that steroid usage was an outgrowth of that culture. But then it hit its peak and some players were shamed and there was more education of younger kids as to the dangers of steroids, so there has been a gradual cultural shift among players to not be ok with steroids, and thus the above mindset will be taking hold more and more.

It would seem to me that the effects of long term usage would be pretty important to forming an opinion. We may have a nucleus of fans, like Yankee in this thread, who profess to not care if the players are juicing but in varying amounts the American sports public does seem to care about damages of one kind or another to pro athletes. See: concussions in football.

If it was determined that a certain amount of steroid use had a high incidence of ill effects to the users' healths, then I'm certainly opposed to said usage. You shouldn't have to kill yourself with drugs to entertain me sufficiently in your athletic endeavors.

 

[dparker713]

Fair enough. I would only add this counterpoint. I think baseball is making it all public as much as they are because of the history of the game for the past 30 years and Selig is fighting against that - or at least that is what he is trying to lead everyone to believe.

I think Selig's motives are another problem. His label as the steroids commissioner is at the forefront of the motivations of the league at this time. He's trying to rewrite his legacy, regardless of the damage he's doing to the game itself.

 

[Wrigley]

Ryan Braun's Facebook apology

 

[Man of Zen]

What a fall this guy has taken. I thought he was a lock to break Bonds tainted record, first ballot hall of famer, etc. Now he's just delusional. Maybe he figured denial worked for Clemens. I dunno. Absolutely despise him now.

When Bonds was breaking HR records, you were thinking to yourself that the light hitting SS prospect who burst onto the scene suddenly whacking .358/36/123 was going to be the guy to bring back clean baseball?

Just out of curiosity, what are your hopes for Miguel Cabrera down the road? Mike Trout?

 

[shadyridr]

What a fall this guy has taken. I thought he was a lock to break Bonds tainted record, first ballot hall of famer, etc. Now he's just delusional. Maybe he figured denial worked for Clemens. I dunno. Absolutely despise him now.

When Bonds was breaking HR records, you were thinking to yourself that the light hitting SS prospect who burst onto the scene suddenly whacking .358/36/123 was going to be the guy to bring back clean baseball?

Just out of curiosity, what are your hopes for Miguel Cabrera down the road? Mike Trout?

light hitting SS prospect? Are you delusional?

 

[The General]

If A-Rod was hitting .350 with 40 HR and 100 RBI right now, I'd want him suspended. Choose to not believe me if you wish, but I hated Gary Sheffield the entire time he was putting up great stats for the Yanks. I'm a baseball fan first and a Yankee fan second, and I want nothing to do with steroid cheats.

Every game, from Monopoly up to MLB, has rules. Without rules, you have a different game. If you break the rules, you don't get to play.

I agree. We should suspend for 100 games any player that steps out of the batters box without being granted time and any pitcher that takes longer than 12 seconds to pitch with the bases empty.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you have such a semmingly large hate for this "thing" that is going on?

I don't think this is in the best interests of baseball. Have a drug testing program. Suspend players that get caught. Move on. The investigation, if it were going to happen, should have been done discretely.

If the league hadn't leaked Braun's positive test, we'd have never heard of his appeal and then they wouldn't have egg on their face for losing and feel the need to get him. If they'd basically ignored the Biogenesis report, this would have been old news months ago. If they'd kept leak free, this wouldn't have been the only baseball topic people have mentioned outside of Puig and Chris Davis.

Plus, I feel like the players involved are getting railroaded. Suspending Braun extra time for winning an appeal? Giving players extra time for not cooperating? Suspending a player without recourse because you don't like him? MLB has been bullies since the start of this thing - intimidating witnesses, abusing the discovery process, paying for testimony, using connections to sway the Feds.

I feel no moral outrage over the use of steroids or other drugs, many of which would be prescribed for legitimate purposes. The line between what is and is not allowed is fairly arbitrary. I also feel no outrage over public figures lying in the press. That's partially a price of a PC society, and partially just human nature.

Also, I see ARod along the lines of TO. Sure, he's weird and does stupid things, but he's hardly the worst human being in the league as so many seem to want to make him. He's also one of the greatest players to ever live and I'd rather watch him play than have him banned from the league.

I understand what you are saying I suppose but I disagree with almost everything you wrote. Don't even understand what you are saying about ignoring the Biogenesis report. The part about players getting railroaded also is a bit much.

Can agree a bit the ambiguous nature of what is cheating now a days because I'm not a doctor and really don't know the ins and outs of all this crap these guys take. But the players and MLB agreed on what you can and cannot do and these dudes seem to be not capable of doing that.

To each his own.

 

[culdeus]

What did this clinic sell? HGH? What?

 

[B-Deep]

What did this clinic sell? HGH? What?

moose ball juice

not cheap either, but you try milking moose balls and see what you charge

 

[randall146]

The trade deadline has passed - let the bannings begin!

 

[rodg12]

What a fall this guy has taken. I thought he was a lock to break Bonds tainted record, first ballot hall of famer, etc. Now he's just delusional. Maybe he figured denial worked for Clemens. I dunno. Absolutely despise him now.

When Bonds was breaking HR records, you were thinking to yourself that the light hitting SS prospect who burst onto the scene suddenly whacking .358/36/123 was going to be the guy to bring back clean baseball?

Just out of curiosity, what are your hopes for Miguel Cabrera down the road? Mike Trout?

LOL. What?

 

[Wrigley]

What a fall this guy has taken. I thought he was a lock to break Bonds tainted record, first ballot hall of famer, etc. Now he's just delusional. Maybe he figured denial worked for Clemens. I dunno. Absolutely despise him now.

When Bonds was breaking HR records, you were thinking to yourself that the light hitting SS prospect who burst onto the scene suddenly whacking .358/36/123 was going to be the guy to bring back clean baseball?

Just out of curiosity, what are your hopes for Miguel Cabrera down the road? Mike Trout?

LOL. What?

he was light hitting before he started juicing.......around 7th grade

 

[Michael Brown]

Where are the players' associations (baseball and football in particular) on steroids usage these days? While wishing to protect the rights of players who are undergoing investigation, I would think that the unions would nevertheless support steroid prohibition on the grounds that players abiding by the rules are at a competitive disadvantage.

I don't really have much hard evidence, but this is my general feeling and speculation.

It seems evident that each progressive CBA in baseball is agreeing to more and more in terms of suspensions for players, no? It is a cultural norm thing that I would expect to continue. As many have noted, cheating is an accepted art in baseball for many, though not all, things. I would say that steroid usage was an outgrowth of that culture. But then it hit its peak and some players were shamed and there was more education of younger kids as to the dangers of steroids, so there has been a gradual cultural shift among players to not be ok with steroids, and thus the above mindset will be taking hold more and more.

It would seem to me that the effects of long term usage would be pretty important to forming an opinion. We may have a nucleus of fans, like Yankee in this thread, who profess to not care if the players are juicing but in varying amounts the American sports public does seem to care about damages of one kind or another to pro athletes. See: concussions in football.

If it was determined that a certain amount of steroid use had a high incidence of ill effects to the users' healths, then I'm certainly opposed to said usage. You shouldn't have to kill yourself with drugs to entertain me sufficiently in your athletic endeavors.

I like watching pro sports because I love seeing the competition and the best players in the world regularly amaze me with things they are able to do. If they are only able to do it because of a needle and some pills, then it becomes far less impressive to me. Kinda like seeing a chick with fake cans.

 

[pollardsvision]

If A-Rod was hitting .350 with 40 HR and 100 RBI right now, I'd want him suspended. Choose to not believe me if you wish, but I hated Gary Sheffield the entire time he was putting up great stats for the Yanks. I'm a baseball fan first and a Yankee fan second, and I want nothing to do with steroid cheats.

Every game, from Monopoly up to MLB, has rules. Without rules, you have a different game. If you break the rules, you don't get to play.

I agree. We should suspend for 100 games any player that steps out of the batters box without being granted time and any pitcher that takes longer than 12 seconds to pitch with the bases empty.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you have such a semmingly large hate for this "thing" that is going on?

I don't think this is in the best interests of baseball. Have a drug testing program. Suspend players that get caught. Move on. The investigation, if it were going to happen, should have been done discretely.

If the league hadn't leaked Braun's positive test, we'd have never heard of his appeal and then they wouldn't have egg on their face for losing and feel the need to get him. If they'd basically ignored the Biogenesis report, this would have been old news months ago. If they'd kept leak free, this wouldn't have been the only baseball topic people have mentioned outside of Puig and Chris Davis.

Plus, I feel like the players involved are getting railroaded. Suspending Braun extra time for winning an appeal? Giving players extra time for not cooperating? Suspending a player without recourse because you don't like him? MLB has been bullies since the start of this thing - intimidating witnesses, abusing the discovery process, paying for testimony, using connections to sway the Feds.

I feel no moral outrage over the use of steroids or other drugs, many of which would be prescribed for legitimate purposes. The line between what is and is not allowed is fairly arbitrary. I also feel no outrage over public figures lying in the press. That's partially a price of a PC society, and partially just human nature.

Also, I see ARod along the lines of TO. Sure, he's weird and does stupid things, but he's hardly the worst human being in the league as so many seem to want to make him. He's also one of the greatest players to ever live and I'd rather watch him play than have him banned from the league.

So if they would have just ignored the evidence then it would all be honky dory?

Yes. You see Roger Goodell trying to turn shady clinic owners into rats?

He doesn't because it's a really dumb thing to do.

Actually, I'd be a little scared to call Goodell's office and say, "hey I've got evidence that Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and 20 other players used HGH. Should we do lunch". I assume Goodell would have me whacked before meeting with me.

 

[pollardsvision]

It's pretty incredible to me the amount of crap ARod is willing to go through. Takes an enormous combination of delusion and arrogance wrapped in egomania. If the reports are correct all the other players connected to this place are negotiating with MLB. MLB has the most to work with against ARod including he tried to buy the evidence back from the guy for a substantial amount of money. But the guy is just going to act like this is all made up. Its actually amazing.

I bet even Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are impressed by the balls on this guy.

What's the alternative?

I can't really see a reason for him not to fight this. I don't know the evidence and I'm certainly ignorant on the drug policy, but I thought it was 50 games for one failed drug test, 100 for the 2nd, and then a lifetime ban.

As far as I know, Alex hasn't failed a drug test since the policy was enacted. He failed one before mandatory testing was even enacted. He wasn't punished when that info leaked.

Like I said, I'm ignorant on the issue, but I can't, for the life of me, figure out how the hell MLB could pull off a 100-game suspension or more.

As an old player, I don't see much to lose in fighting it.

Braun was different. He's young. His huge money doesn't kick in until next season. The teams stinks and he was hurt. Taking the 65 games and moving on makes sense.

 

[Raider Nation]

Commissioner Bud Selig is prepared to levy a lifetime suspension on New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez, while suspending about eight others before the weekend, two people with knowledge of the negotiations told USA TODAY Sports.