2007 Cleveland Browns Thread (1 Viewer)

[BGP]

Savage has currently overpaid for:

LT Shaffer

CB Baxter

RB Lewis

OG Steinbach

LB Andra Davis

The only guy quality guy out of this group is Steinbach, which makes it worse.

 

[BGP]

Let's look at Savage's first two drafts:

2005:

1 WR Braylon Edwards - obviously a fantastic talent coming out of college. Can't argue the pick. Its not Savage's fault he blew out his knee his rookie year and has never recovered his speed.

2 S Brodney Pool - obviously was drafted because the club feared S Sean Jones would never recover from his knee injury. But Sean Jones did recover and won the starting spot and is probably a future pro bowler, which basically has put Pool in limbo. He's doesn't have the skillset for CB. Russell was our other safety and he improved tremendously and was a team leader. But we had a luxury with 3 starting safeties and let Russell leave for Seattle. Pool now mans the other S spot.

3. QB Charlie Frye - had his ups and downs as QB for this team, but its to be expected until the OL proves it can do a better job controlling the LOS.

4. CB Antonio Perkins - waived and re-signed to the practice squad. Set an NCAA record for most punt returns for TDs. But then Cribbs emerged, Perkins got hurt, and really has no role right now.

2006:

1. LB Kamerion Wimbley - excellent pick. Should be a force for the Browns defense for years to come.

2. LB D'Qwell Jackson - He has flaws but also a lot of potential and youth and should have a spot somewhere. More later.

3. WR Travis Wilson - The guy didn't play. WRs can take a few years before developing. There's really nothing to say here.

4. LB Leon Williams - Ok, this is where it get REALLY interesting. The people that watch the game tape know that Leon Williams was the best player the Browns drafted. He is better than even Wimbley. He is not probably just going to be a starter, he is probably going to be a stud. He did not get a chance to play early on but he got on the field towards the end of season and really turned heads. He had over 40 tackles after not playing the first half of the year and showed a tremendous amount of ability. One wonders why it took so long for him to get out there, and if there isn't something that has been kept quiet to cause him to miss half the year. But it seems certain he will take someone's job very soon. he is the best LB on the team, hands down, judged by the people who watch the tape. Somebody got to this kid and taught him up.

 

[BGP]

With what we have to grade him on, Phil Savage is having strong drafts. His free agency moves are questionable, but have improved with Steinbach.

 

[massraider]

Here is where I think the chips fall for the Browns:1. The Browns realistically know Russell isn't going to be there.2. The Browns probably want either CJ or AP.HOWEVER, let's toss this scenario out there. Let's imagine the Lions don't select Joe Thomas, and then the Browns pass on him to take a skill-position player. I think this immediately puts the current regime on the hot seat, especially if Thomas does well as a rookie. Every Browns fan here knows that our current left tackle is awful. If Thomas pans out, and we passed on him, the media will eat Savage and Crennel alive, especially if they don't win immediately. Shaffer is going to be garbage this year. Savage will become known as the guy who overpaid for Shaffer and then passed on Thomas. This isn't to say the Savage should build his team so as to put the least amount of pressure on himself. What I'm saying is this scenario could accelerate the timetable and the expectations for this club.They better win now if they do this. Or they better grab a lesser LT in the draft like Joe Staley.

It's funny how teams' situations affect the perspective around draft time. At the same time that the Raiders are being told they'd be stupid to pass on the BPA, Johnson, the Browns fans are gonna be peeved if they wind up with him rather than Thomas.

 

[BGP]

Here is where I think the chips fall for the Browns:1. The Browns realistically know Russell isn't going to be there.2. The Browns probably want either CJ or AP.HOWEVER, let's toss this scenario out there. Let's imagine the Lions don't select Joe Thomas, and then the Browns pass on him to take a skill-position player. I think this immediately puts the current regime on the hot seat, especially if Thomas does well as a rookie. Every Browns fan here knows that our current left tackle is awful. If Thomas pans out, and we passed on him, the media will eat Savage and Crennel alive, especially if they don't win immediately. Shaffer is going to be garbage this year. Savage will become known as the guy who overpaid for Shaffer and then passed on Thomas. This isn't to say the Savage should build his team so as to put the least amount of pressure on himself. What I'm saying is this scenario could accelerate the timetable and the expectations for this club.They better win now if they do this. Or they better grab a lesser LT in the draft like Joe Staley.

It's funny how teams' situations affect the perspective around draft time. At the same time that the Raiders are being told they'd be stupid to pass on the BPA, Johnson, the Browns fans are gonna be peeved if they wind up with him rather than Thomas.

It gets tiring watching the QB get killed here in Cleveland. All of our QBs keep getting hurt and its because the OL can't protect them. If you don't give Frye an OL, the only thing he will learn is how to run for his life.

 

[massraider]

Here is where I think the chips fall for the Browns:1. The Browns realistically know Russell isn't going to be there.2. The Browns probably want either CJ or AP.HOWEVER, let's toss this scenario out there. Let's imagine the Lions don't select Joe Thomas, and then the Browns pass on him to take a skill-position player. I think this immediately puts the current regime on the hot seat, especially if Thomas does well as a rookie. Every Browns fan here knows that our current left tackle is awful. If Thomas pans out, and we passed on him, the media will eat Savage and Crennel alive, especially if they don't win immediately. Shaffer is going to be garbage this year. Savage will become known as the guy who overpaid for Shaffer and then passed on Thomas. This isn't to say the Savage should build his team so as to put the least amount of pressure on himself. What I'm saying is this scenario could accelerate the timetable and the expectations for this club.They better win now if they do this. Or they better grab a lesser LT in the draft like Joe Staley.

It's funny how teams' situations affect the perspective around draft time. At the same time that the Raiders are being told they'd be stupid to pass on the BPA, Johnson, the Browns fans are gonna be peeved if they wind up with him rather than Thomas.

It gets tiring watching the QB get killed here in Cleveland. All of our QBs keep getting hurt and its because the OL can't protect them. If you don't give Frye an OL, the only thing he will learn is how to run for his life.

Hey, Oakland is Cleveland West (no offense). Same problems. I personally don't think either of these teams can be investing in another WR at the top of the 1st.Cleveland is interesting, because I think they could easily justify several guys that'll be there at 3. Thomas, Peterson, Quinn.How would you break down, percetange-wise, Browns fans' preferences? Who's the favorite?

 

[BGP]

Here is where I think the chips fall for the Browns:1. The Browns realistically know Russell isn't going to be there.2. The Browns probably want either CJ or AP.HOWEVER, let's toss this scenario out there. Let's imagine the Lions don't select Joe Thomas, and then the Browns pass on him to take a skill-position player. I think this immediately puts the current regime on the hot seat, especially if Thomas does well as a rookie. Every Browns fan here knows that our current left tackle is awful. If Thomas pans out, and we passed on him, the media will eat Savage and Crennel alive, especially if they don't win immediately. Shaffer is going to be garbage this year. Savage will become known as the guy who overpaid for Shaffer and then passed on Thomas. This isn't to say the Savage should build his team so as to put the least amount of pressure on himself. What I'm saying is this scenario could accelerate the timetable and the expectations for this club.They better win now if they do this. Or they better grab a lesser LT in the draft like Joe Staley.

It's funny how teams' situations affect the perspective around draft time. At the same time that the Raiders are being told they'd be stupid to pass on the BPA, Johnson, the Browns fans are gonna be peeved if they wind up with him rather than Thomas.

It gets tiring watching the QB get killed here in Cleveland. All of our QBs keep getting hurt and its because the OL can't protect them. If you don't give Frye an OL, the only thing he will learn is how to run for his life.

Hey, Oakland is Cleveland West (no offense). Same problems. I personally don't think either of these teams can be investing in another WR at the top of the 1st.Cleveland is interesting, because I think they could easily justify several guys that'll be there at 3. Thomas, Peterson, Quinn.How would you break down, percetange-wise, Browns fans' preferences? Who's the favorite?

Probably Peterson.I think that's fine, but I also think the fans are expecting the OL to be a lot better as well. A second round pick on a LT, or moving Steinbach to LT and having it work out well while you get a OG in the draft, or trading up to get a guy like Joe Staley, there are ways to fix this.

 

[BGP]

A little more on Leon Williams:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9584845

One of the first players to catch my eye was rookie outside linebacker Leon Williams, the Browns' fourth-round draft pick from Miami. He is fast and shows superb instincts. He exploded into the backfield so quickly to blow up one running play that he seemed to appear from nowhere before wrapping up the startled back. Williams has impressed coaches to the point where he has warranted looks as a starter. Even if he doesn't end up starting, Williams should see extensive action on defense. He has the characteristics to be the sparkplug coach Romeo Crennel and defensive coordinator Todd Grantham need to make their 3-4 scheme more of a difference-making force than it was when they put it in place last year.

 

[BGP]

The Browns probably got 3 pro bowl LBs out of last years draft.

 

[BGP]

Another thing to chew on.

The Browns brass has said at different times that they believe in drafting the best player available. When they selected Braylon Edwards, they said they graded him as the best player in the draft. When you take three LBs with your top 4 picks, it seems excessive but it also appears they simply graded those LBs as the best player on the board at the time and took them, and apparently they were correct each time.

When it comes time to pick, I'd guess their draft board looks like

1. Calvin Johnson

2. Adrian Peterson

But of course it depends upon if CJ is there at 3, and if they are still using BPA.

 

[Bobcat10]

Savage has currently overpaid for:LT ShafferCB BaxterRB LewisOG SteinbachLB Andra DavisThe only guy quality guy out of this group is Steinbach, which makes it worse.

Most free agents, I'm not talking about the dreds of the league, are overpaid. This is not a Browns thing, it's a league wide thing. If you don't sign these guys, at least in the Browns situation, you'd be putting completely inferior players in their places. You can't do everything on draft day, especially when the previous two regimes mucked things up so badly. I can't fault any of these signings....maybe Shaffer....but what were the rest of our options? If Baxter doesn't land on the injury report every week (which I don't think he had issues with in Baltimore) and then blow out his knees, he's part of a pretty good tandem with Bodden. Lewis is a stop gap that needed a new situation and Davis is a solid LB in the NFL.

 

[Bobcat10]

I really tried to talk up Leon in last season's Browns thread. I really liked what I saw when he got on the field, in special teams and on defense. He's going to be what Butch invisioned C. Thompson as being (different defense style, but you know what I mean).

 

[wadegarrett]

Love this year's schedule. Three home division games in the first four games. Only 3 home games after Nov. 4. Much better than the past couple years.

2007 Schedule

Sep 9 Pittsburgh 1:00pm

Sep 16 Cincinnati 1:00pm

Sep 23 @Oakland 4:05pm

Sep 30 Baltimore 1:00pm

Oct 7 @New England 1:00pm

Oct 14 Miami 1:00pm

Week 7 BYE

Oct 28 @St. Louis 1:00pm

Nov 4 Seattle 4:05pm

Nov 11 @Pittsburgh 1:00pm

Nov 18 @Baltimore 1:00pm

Nov 25 Houston 1:00pm

Dec 2 @Arizona 4:05pm

Dec 9 @N.Y. Jets 4:15pm

Dec 16 Buffalo 1:00pm

Dec 23 @Cincinnati 1:00pm

Dec 30 San Francisco 1:00pm

 

[Tecumseh]

After a 2-8 start, I'm seeing a late run to make it to 7-9. God, I hope I'm wrong...

 

[Browns Rule!]

I think our draft board looks like:

1. Joe Thomas

2. Adrian Peterson

3. Calvin Johnson

To me, we are primed for a great year. Also, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Bentley will play week 1 giving us some depth on the Oline for the first time ever. Here is why I say that:

1. Bentley is scheduled to see if surgery will be necessary within the next month. He has been working hard and is in good shape right now.

2. The Browns have been extremely hush, hush on the situation, just like with Baxter. It was assumed with Baxter that his career was over, but now when he speaks, he says he will be back week 1.

3. Bentley said that the day the Browns signed him was the second best day of his life next to his son's birth, obviously, he wants to play with the team, and the will to play may give him an edge to come back this year.

 

[wadegarrett]

I think our draft board looks like:1. Joe Thomas2. Adrian Peterson3. Calvin Johnson

I think it goes:1. Jamarcus Russell2. Joe Thomas3. Brady Quinn4. Adrian Peterson5. Calvin Johnson

 

[wadegarrett]

Browns face rival invasion

Tony Grossi

Cleveland Plain Dealer

Thursday, April 12, 2007

It won't take long to determine whether the Browns will be competitive in their division in 2007.

Their regular-season schedule calls for them to play each of their rivals in the AFC North in the first month. And each game is in Cleveland.

For a team that is 1-11 against its division rivals the past two seasons, the unusual early test can be considered an opportunity for redemption -- or a death sentence.

The Browns open at home for the ninth consecutive season, this time against the Pittsburgh Steelers. It will be the first regular-season game for Pittsburgh coach Mike Tomlin in the post-Bill Cowher era.

The Steelers will be followed into Cleveland Browns Stadium by the Cincinnati Bengals on Sept. 16 and by the Baltimore Ravens on Sept. 30. The lone road game of the first month is Sept. 23 at Oakland.

The next quadrant of the season starts with a road game against perennial Super Bowl contender New England on Oct. 7. That is coach Romeo Crennel's first meeting against former boss Bill Belichick.

A home game against Miami and new coach Cam Cameron follows on Oct. 14 before the bye week.

That's the easier part of the schedule.

Six of the Browns' final 10 games are on the road, starting with an Oct. 28 game at St. Louis.

After a home game Nov. 4 against Seattle -- marking the season halfway point -- the Browns play four of their next five away.

They have rematches at Pittsburgh on Nov. 11 and at Baltimore on Nov. 18. There is a home game against Houston on Nov. 25 followed by road contests at Arizona on Dec. 2 and the New York Jets on Dec. 9.

The season concludes with a home game against Buffalo on Dec. 16, the rematch in Cincinnati on Dec. 23 and a home game against San Francisco on Dec. 30.

The combined 2006 record of Browns' opponents is 130-126. Only four made the playoffs in 2006.

The Browns have no games scheduled for prime-time national television, although their final eight games could be moved to a Sunday night appearance on NFL Network.

Article side note:

Wisconsin left tackle Joe Thomas will visit the Browns on Monday, according to a league source. The Browns previously met with LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell, Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn and Oklahoma running back Adrian Peterson.

 

[wadegarrett]

Browns don't doubt Thomas

Mary Kay Cabot

Cleveland Plain Dealer

Thursday, April 12, 2007

While most fans and draft experts are poised for the Browns to select a flashy skill player with the No. 3 pick overall, Browns General Manager Phil Savage talked up the possibility of taking Wisconsin tackle Joe Thomas.

Speaking at a Browns Backers event on Wednesday night, Savage recalled the Baltimore Ravens drafting Jonathan Ogden with the fourth overall pick in 1996 draft.

"I was part of an organization that took a left tackle early in the draft," said Savage said of Ogden. "Our coach at the time was Ted Marchibroda. Ted wanted a running back and he just hung his head and he wasn't very excited about it at all.

"I can remember us looking at Ted and saying it's not really a very sexy pick or very exciting, but this guy might play for 10 or 12 years. Ultimately, Jonathan became a Pro Bowl, Hall of Fame type of player. Picking Joe Thomas may not be the most exciting pick, but it could be the wisest thing for us to do at this point. We'll see how it all plays out."

Browns assistant director of player personnel T.J. McCreight also said that the offensive line "will be up to where it should be" after the draft.

The Browns haven't said too much about Thomas up to this point, because they felt he wouldn't be available at No. 3. But now it's anyone's guess what Oakland will do at No. 1 and Detroit at No. 2.

"It's a little bit unpredictable," said Savage. "I think you're talking about two teams that don't necessarily play by the book."

Savage said the Browns are weighing all of their options, including trading up, down or staying put.

"If we're at the third spot, there are five players up there on the offensive side of the ball that everyone in America is focused on," he said. "If we don't do anything, we'll end up with one of those five. The question we're asking ourselves right now is it worth trying to go up to get one of these particular players? Or is it worth trying to go backwards and trying to pick up some extra choices along the way?"

As for trading up, presumably to get a Russell or Quinn, Savage said, "We'd have to grit our teeth to that, but we're open to anything."

Savage suggested that trading down is possibility because "we'll probably end up with a list of 10-15 players that we'd feel real good about joining the Cleveland Browns as a first-round pick."

Savage provided a quick synopsis on the other four players the Browns are considering at No. 3:

Georgia Tech receiver Calvin Johnson: "He's a terrific talent, a big-time wideout, 6-5, 240, ran in the 4.3s, jumped from Atlanta all the up to Cleveland on his vertical jump. He's a supreme talent."

Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn: "He's a terrific quarterback, a guy that can come in and grasp an offense right away. He's gotten some pro training with Charlie Weis."

Oklahoma running back Adrian Peterson: "He's a terrific back out of Oklahoma, has tremendous speed, brings a passion to the game. He has toughness and temperament.

LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell: "He's a rare kind of guy in terms of his size. Adrian Peterson at 6-1, 217 is smaller than the two quarterbacks in Brady Quinn and JaMarcus Russell."

Extra points:

Savage said it's unlikely that the Browns will trade for Trent Green, but if they do, it could come down to draft day. Savage said receivers coach Wes Chandler attended Ted Ginn Jr.'s workout at Ohio State but didn't get the full report yet.

Terrific analysis Phil.

 

[wadegarrett]

2. Running back Adrian Peterson wants to be a Brown. So does Quinn. Met both of them the other day in New York, where they were promoting the Sprint draft phone. (How bizarre. You can get a cellular telephone and watch the draft on it.) Anyway, I asked Peterson: Got a gut feeling where you're going to get picked? Now, when you ask most guys this question, they've been well-schooled in not favoring one team over another. Said Peterson: "My gut feeling? Cleveland at three. Sitting down with them [coach Romeo Crennel, GM Phil Savage], I get the feeling they're very, very interested. I would love it there. The fans in Cleveland are the closest to college fans in the NFL. I love the Dawg Pound. I think I can be a franchise back and really help the Browns turn it around.''

From King's MMQB.

 

[Fallerjw]

Another thing to chew on.

The Browns brass has said at different times that they believe in drafting the best player available. When they selected Braylon Edwards, they said they graded him as the best player in the draft. When you take three LBs with your top 4 picks, it seems excessive but it also appears they simply graded those LBs as the best player on the board at the time and took them, and apparently they were correct each time.

When it comes time to pick, I'd guess their draft board looks like

1. Calvin Johnson

2. Adrian Peterson

But of course it depends upon if CJ is there at 3, and if they are still using BPA.

They not only took them, but they traded Jeff Faine to the Saints to move up 9 spots in the second round. They used that pick for DQ Jackson. Obviously they felt this was a player they had to have. I know they had just signed Bentley, but Faine would have been fine as a backup at center or guard. Many Browns fans were torn between getting rid of him and keeping him around for depth. He played well for the Saints last year, so he's not a bad player. However, the Browns were able to pick up a probable starting LB in the process. As crazy as it sounds, if they can find an OLB to step up, Williams and Jackson COULD be the starting MLBs sometime in the near future.

 

[Bobcat10]

I think our draft board looks like:1. Joe Thomas2. Adrian Peterson3. Calvin Johnson

I think it goes:1. Jamarcus Russell2. Joe Thomas3. Brady Quinn4. Adrian Peterson5. Calvin Johnson

Here is what I think the Browns draft board looks like.1. Jamarcus Russell2. Adrian Peterson 3. Joe Thomas 4. Brady Quinn5. Calvin JohnsonBUT, if the Lions do not find a dance partner to make a move on Calvin (assuming Calvin does not go to the Raiders), the Browns will play their cards and try to move back a few spots. I'm sure if they could land any of these five guys, and add a pick here or there at the same time, they would be elated. This is not a group of five where you say, "we've gotta get this guy". Any of the five will help the team and be an upgrade in some fashion. They could also gamble and move down to the 7-10 range and hope for Quinn, but I'd only do this if the return for #3 is equal (or maybe even exceeds) in value.2nd round / 3rd round -- best available, but if a Cornerback or Offensive Line is within a few slots on the draft board, you gotta get one, especially if we're talking 3rd round.

 

[wadegarrett]

I think our draft board looks like:1. Joe Thomas2. Adrian Peterson3. Calvin Johnson

I think it goes:1. JaMarcus Russell2. Joe Thomas3. Brady Quinn4. Adrian Peterson5. Calvin Johnson

Here is what I think the Browns draft board looks like.1. Jamarcus Russell2. Adrian Peterson 3. Joe Thomas 4. Brady Quinn5. Calvin JohnsonBUT, if the Lions do not find a dance partner to make a move on Calvin (assuming Calvin does not go to the Raiders), the Browns will play their cards and try to move back a few spots. I'm sure if they could land any of these five guys, and add a pick here or there at the same time, they would be elated. This is not a group of five where you say, "we've gotta get this guy". Any of the five will help the team and be an upgrade in some fashion. They could also gamble and move down to the 7-10 range and hope for Quinn, but I'd only do this if the return for #3 is equal (or maybe even exceeds) in value.2nd round / 3rd round -- best available, but if a Cornerback or Offensive Line is within a few slots on the draft board, you gotta get one, especially if we're talking 3rd round.

I'm changing my mind on what their draft board looks like. Now think it's as follows:1. Adrian Peterson2. Calvin Johnson3. JaMarcus Russell4. Joe Thomas 5. Brady QuinnI think the only way they move down is to either No. 4 (so TB assures themselves of CJ assuming he's there) or down further where they know they can get Peterson. If they can't move down, they take Peterson and don't look back.

 

[Peak]

I'm changing my mind on what their draft board looks like. Now think it's as follows:1. Adrian Peterson2. Calvin Johnson3. JaMarcus Russell4. Joe Thomas 5. Brady QuinnI think the only way they move down is to either No. 4 (so TB assures themselves of CJ assuming he's there) or down further where they know they can get Peterson. If they can't move down, they take Peterson and don't look back.

I could see this. By signing Ricard to a one year deal, I get an even bigger feeling that JLew will have the opportunity to succeed this year and possibly restructure next year. I've heard that next year's draft class is deeper with RB and QB talent than this year. Given Savage's penchant to not talk about who he really wants, I wouldn't be surprised to see CJ at the top of his board. More speculation is being thrown at a QB or ADP. Nothing is being said of CJ, the highly touted BPA in this draft.

 

[Bobcat10]

I'm changing my mind on what their draft board looks like. Now think it's as follows:1. Adrian Peterson2. Calvin Johnson3. JaMarcus Russell4. Joe Thomas 5. Brady QuinnI think the only way they move down is to either No. 4 (so TB assures themselves of CJ assuming he's there) or down further where they know they can get Peterson. If they can't move down, they take Peterson and don't look back.

I could see this. By signing Ricard to a one year deal, I get an even bigger feeling that JLew will have the opportunity to succeed this year and possibly restructure next year. I've heard that next year's draft class is deeper with RB and QB talent than this year. Given Savage's penchant to not talk about who he really wants, I wouldn't be surprised to see CJ at the top of his board. More speculation is being thrown at a QB or ADP. Nothing is being said of CJ, the highly touted BPA in this draft.

You mention the only thing about CJ that makes me think he could be the Browns target.....he's the player they've talked about the least. Still, going back to my post, if he's #1 on their list, they will still try to use him to drop down a pick or a few since the top 5 this year are all good fits for the Browns.

 

[wadegarrett]

Not much new info from today's press conference on the Draft...

Savage continues to target offense for top pick

April 17, 2007 15:37PM

Mary Kay Cabot

Plain Dealer Reporter

Browns general manager Phil Savage re-iterated during his pre-draft news conference today that the Browns are targeting five key offensive players with their No. 3 overall pick.

They are LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell, Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn, receiver Calvin Johnson, Oklahoma running back Adrian Peterson and Wisconsin offensive tackle Joe Thomas.

Beyond that, Savage wouldn't tip his hand in the direction of any of the top players, saying the Browns would be happy with any one of them -- and that they're still exploring their options of trading up or down.

Savage did reveal that Johnson will visit Berea sometime this week, meaning that all five players have come to town for interviews and a closer look.

Savage said Johnson "certainly could be the best player in the draft. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go No. 1. He's certainly deserving of that status."

He said Thomas is not as athletic as Ravens tackle Jonathan Ogden, but that he's gotten increasingly better and "he feels he'll play 10 years in the league."

He described Peterson as "home-run hitter who swings for the fences every time he touches the ball." He also said that Peterson's reputation for being injury-prone is probably "not as much of a major issue as people have made it out to be."

Savage spoke of knowing Russell since Russell was 14 and attended Savage's football camp in their shared hometown of Mobile, Ala. He said criticisms of Russell's work ethic are unfair and that he knows first-hand that they're inaccurate.

Savage also said that California running back Marshawn Lynch, the second-rated back in the draft behind Peterson, has been here for a visit. "He can run, block, catch and he's extremely athletic."

He said there's a greater chance the Browns will trade down from their No. 3 pick than up, but he didn't rule anything. He hinted that one likely scenario is that Russell and Johnson will be gone with the first two picks.

Savage said the major difference between drafting No. 3 this year and in 2005 is "that this is a little more spectacular top five than in '05."

 

[BGP]

For the record, I would like to see the Browns select Joe Thomas at 1.03. I believe in winning at the line of scrimmage. The Browns do not dominate the line and need to improve. I believe you cannot worry if he is going to bust or not. Actually, my philosophy would be modelled after Belichick. Belichick has an extreme dedication to winning the line of scrimmage. He drafts at least two (and sometimes more) players who play on the line of scrimmage with his top 4 picks in every draft. I believe it doesn't matter if Joe Thomas is a bust or not - you just keep drafting more OL and DL every single year. Joe helps you win the LOS and fills a huge need - its such a no-brainer.

I wouldn't mind Thomas in the first and Grubbs in the second, and then having Frye play behind a revamped line. We saw Garcia suck with the Browns and the Lions and then look like a completely different QB with the Eagles where he got good blocking from his OL. I do not believe we can evaluate Frye because he hasn't had good blocking. I want to see what the kid can do.

 

[wadegarrett]

For the record, I would like to see the Browns select Joe Thomas at 1.03. I believe in winning at the line of scrimmage. The Browns do not dominate the line and need to improve. I believe you cannot worry if he is going to bust or not. Actually, my philosophy would be modelled after Belichick. Belichick has an extreme dedication to winning the line of scrimmage. He drafts at least two (and sometimes more) players who play on the line of scrimmage with his top 4 picks in every draft. I believe it doesn't matter if Joe Thomas is a bust or not - you just keep drafting more OL and DL every single year. Joe helps you win the LOS and fills a huge need - its such a no-brainer.

I wouldn't mind Thomas in the first and Grubbs in the second, and then having Frye play behind a revamped line. We saw Garcia suck with the Browns and the Lions and then look like a completely different QB with the Eagles where he got good blocking from his OL. I do not believe we can evaluate Frye because he hasn't had good blocking. I want to see what the kid can do.

I have no problem with the Browns taking Thomas. I would prefer AP at #3 and OL at the top of the 2nd round. Still some nice prospects there (see article below).It's hard to get the names Karim Abdul-Jabaar, Randy Baldwin, Tommy Vardell, Ben Gay, Errict Rhett, Terry Kirby, Travis Prentice, James Jackson, William Green, Lee Suggs and Reuben Droughns out of my head.

If, as Jon Gruden says, AP is maybe one of the the best backs to ever come out of college, how can the Browns pass that up? In the last 4 drafts the RBs taken in Round 1 include Reggie Bush, Lawrence Maroney, DeAngelo Williams, Joseph Addai, Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Carnell Williams, Steven Jackson, Chris Perry, Kevin Jones, Willis McGahee and Larry Johnson. And Gruden thinks AP is possibly better than all of them?

Consider me on board with AP as the pick.

Browns keep an eye on alternative players for offensive lineman

AkronBeacon Journal

April 24, 2007

If Browns General Manager Phil Savage wants an offensive lineman with the 36th overall pick, Central Michigan tackle Joe Staley and Auburn guard Ben Grubbs might top his wish list.

Both could be gone before the Browns choose fourth in the second round, however, so NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock has offered two alternatives: Arron Sears of Tennessee or Justin Blalock of Texas, former college tackles who ``are expected to kick inside and start immediately at guard.''

The Browns have signed free-agent guard Eric Steinbach to a seven-year, $49.5 million contract, but they still need help on the right side, especially since Cosey Coleman is an unrestricted free agent and Joe Andruzzi seems in the twilight of his career at age 31.

Blalock, 6-foot-3 and 320 pounds, carries a higher rating than Sears, 6-foot-3 ¼ and 319.

Blalock has Pro Bowl potential, starting a school-record 51 games, the most of any player who attended the 2007 NFL Scouting Combine and breaking the Texas record of 49 by Dan Neil (1993-96).

Pro Football Weekly's Draft Guide said the Longhorns' captain and All-American has ``the sheer mass, power and intelligence to be a 10-year starter and should be able to walk in and take over like he did at Texas.''

The same guide called Sears a ``massive'' man who ``can block out the sun'' and it said he would be the perfect fit for a team seeking to build a smash-mouth offense. Mayock said he's likely to be available at No. 36 because of his injury history, which included ankle problems in 2003 and '04 and a spring practice injury that required toe surgery before his sophomore year.

Since his freshman year, though, he has missed only two games to injury. He has started all 24 the past two seasons, playing every line position but center.

The Sporting News Draft Guide, based on the evaluations of scouts from the War Room, calls Sears the best run blocker in the draft and Blalock the most athletic offensive linemen.

Besides their skills, versatility makes them doubly attractive. Blalock came to Texas as a guard and was redshirted, then spent the next three seasons at right tackle. When Cedric Dockery went down with an injury in 2006, Blalock took over at right guard for the final seven games.

``At this point, I'm more comfortable playing tackle just because of the time I've played there,'' said Blalock, a native of Plano, Texas. ``But I have a feeling I better get used to doing both.

``Several teams have mentioned having guys play multiple positions in a single game. To have the ability to do that, to be able to pick things up quickly and to have the physical skills to play multiple positions, it's certainly intriguing from their standpoint.''

As for the secret to his durability, Blalock said, ``To play that many games at the D-I level takes not only toughness, but a little bit of luck.''

Sears, a Russellville, Ala., native, showed that he can adjust on the fly in a 2004 game at Alabama, when he played three positions (both tackles and guard).

``During the week, I really just was preparing to play left tackle,'' he said. ``Unfortunately, a couple of our guards went down, and I just had to change over real quick.

``I loved that game, being able to go back home, being able to play in that game, being able to move around to help my offensive line coach and my team.''

He did it again at LSU in 2005, starting at right guard but playing four positions in one day. For his career, he started 26 games at left tackle, six at right tackle, four at right guard and one at left guard. Last season as a left tackle, he won the Jacobs Award as the best blocker in the Southeastern Conference, the first Volunteers player to earn that honor since Antone Davis in 1990.

Some have concerns about Sears' weight, but he said he was between 330 and 335 to start last season and was down to 317 to 319 for the combine thanks to a challenge with offensive line coach Greg Adkins.

``He was a big guy. He said we'd do it together,'' Sears said. ``Our goal was between 315 and 320. I've been working on getting in better shape so I can transition to the NFL.''

 

[Bobcat10]

I'm on board with you, WG. I think AD is the pick and then go OL/DL for the next few rounds unless there are huge talent gaps (I don't like drafting a guy too high for need). Maybe mix in a CB.

I'm still all for dangling Calvin to the highest bidder though, and maybe getting AD or Quinn at great value between 5 and 10 (assuming Gruden doesn't bite to move one spot). You just run the risk in that situation of not getting any of the big 5.

And yes I'll call him AD instead of AP. It is his nickname and all.

 

[Fallerjw]

Derry: No Way to Lose

A QB dooms Crennel, according to Frank...

A QB dooms Crennel, according to Frank...

By Frank Derry

OBR Columnist

Posted Apr 24, 2007

Sportswriting vet Frank Derry has a favorite as the #1 pick, but is prepared for disappointment...

The months dwindled to weeks, which have now become a matter of days. Soon, it will only be hours, then minutes, until the Browns are on the clock.

General manager Phil Savage has done a masterful job of sending out mixed signals as to what the Browns plan to do in this year’s draft. If the Browns remain No. 3, will it be quarterback Brady Quinn, left tackle Joe Thomas or running back Adrian Peterson? Or, will they try to move up to have a shot at quarterback Jamarcus Russell?

What if wide receiver Calvin Johnson, regarded by many as the best player in the draft, somehow slips past the Raiders and Lions and is available? There’s also the option of trading down to a spot, likely around No. 10, where cornerback Leon Hall could be had to help fill what is probably the team’s biggest need.

The good thing for Cleveland is that any of the above-mentioned players could probably step right in and contribute. The bad thing for Cleveland is that any of the above-mentioned players could probably step right in and contribute. When you are as talent-starved as the Browns, there is almost nothing short of letting their time expire that would be considered a mistake on draft day.

Several months ago, I wrote that I wanted the team to take Thomas, the talented left tackle from Wisconsin. I figured Thomas, whose potential has been downplayed by some over the past few months even though he hasn’t played a meaningful game since bowl season, could serve as an anchor at left tackle for the next decade. Combined with guard Eric Steinbach, signed as a free agent, and the hopeful return of Pro Bowl center LeCharles Bentley, the Browns could have a very, very solid offensive line by as early as 2008 if they draft Thomas.

I love Thomas’s talent. I also love his attitude. He’s a blue-collar guy who prefers a pickup over a Ferrari; a pleasant day of fishing over any amount of time in the Big Apple; a lunch pail over an evening out at a five-star restaurant. If indeed the Browns do choose him, the media will have to conduct their interview while Thomas, who plans to spend the day on the lake with his father, is hopefully pulling in lunkers. Thomas has agreed to have a camera mounted on his boat to catch his reaction to being drafted. Whether it’s the Browns or someone else, I don’t think you’ll see him taking a celebratory dunk. He’s a low-key guy who believes in an honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay.

Thomas was my choice several months ago. He’s still my choice today. That’s not to say that Russell or Quinn wouldn’t be an upgrade from the current quarterback corp. In a couple of years, when one or the other would likely be ready to contribute, the Browns might have had time, even without Thomas, to built an offensive line capable of keeping them from the many bumps and bruises inflicted upon predecessors Tim Couch and Charlie Frye.

But if the Browns do go for a quarterback, that likely means they are building for a couple of years down the road, which pretty much guarantees Romeo Crennel will be coaching elsewhere. His three or four-year window of opportunity will have been slammed shut by the team’s decision to take a new course of action on offense.

Peterson? Unless he suddenly turns into Cheers’ Norm, Peterson could turn out to be one of the NFL’s all-time great running backs. That is, if he winds up with someone like Denver or Pittsburgh, teams which annually produce 1,000-yard runners.

With the Browns, he’d undoubtedly be a good running back, the type of guy needed for the team to win in November and December. But they’ve already got Jamal Lewis, who should have a few good years left.

Drafting Peterson would be a luxury that the team can’t really afford at this time.

Finally, if Johnson is somehow available at No. 3, I wouldn’t hesitate to trade down. There will undoubtedly be several teams willing to part with multiple draft choices to acquire one of the most gifted wide receivers to come out in many, many years.

Make no mistake, Johnson would be an upgrade over Braylon Edwards, the third player taken in the 2005 draft. And if Kellen Winslow Jr., is healthy enough to play in ’07, they could combine to be a terrific trio of talented receivers.

The problem is, if the Browns quarterback, be it Frye or Derek Anderson, is running for his life or laying on his back, the chances of the passing game being effective are remote at best.

Thanks to Savage’s savvy pre-draft media manipulation, there’s no way to determine what route the Browns will take come Saturday afternoon.

Frankly, I’ll be surprised if it’s Thomas. For whatever reason, neither this regime, nor either of the previous two, has been inclined to build a foundation that will lead to sustained success.

I wish that wasn't true, but it is.

 

[wadegarrett]

Great column by Shaw today. Seems to be the sentiment of every Browns fans I know.

Unfortunately, almost EVERY mock I see by the so-called "experts" have the Browns taking Quinn.

Don't throw dice for another QB

Wednesday, April 25, 2007

Bud Shaw

Cleveland Plain Dealer Columnist

Acceptance for drafting Brady Quinn is a matter of how you weigh it.

Quinn or Adrian Peterson? Pe terson in a landslide.

Quinn or Joe Thomas? Thomas by a nose.

Quinn or trading down? Trade down if at all possible.

Quinn or an outbreak of bird flu in Cleveland? Quinn, finally.

Someone should tell him it's nothing personal. There are football towns all across America where a matinee idol quarterback from Notre Dame would be the sexy pick, just not here.

It's the past (Tim Couch) and the present (uh, fellas, you can start winning any time now) trumping the future.

Part of that present is the presumably well-considered plan laid out by General Manager Phil Savage last year.

It called for Charlie Frye to take his lumps in 2006. Brilliantly executed at least in that regard, the idea however also included abbreviating Frye's learning curve so he could reap the rewards in 2007.

Drafting Quinn would be a quick reversal of that strategy, another sign of organizational mixed signals. It would declare Frye a total bust. And it would be a second dice roll on Quinn, the bet being that he's more Tom Brady than Couch.

It's hard to imagine this team, with its various glaring needs, reaching that double verdict at the expense of a home run-hitting running back or a 10-year fixture at left tackle.

Frye didn't do much to amass growing faith in him. The team did him no favors in not signing a proven veteran. But the mess around him - beginning with a battered offensive line that, remember, was supposed to prop him up - greatly complicates the matter of writing him off.

Projecting quarterbacks at the top of the draft is as troublesome (Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Couch and many more), which is why Peterson and Thomas would both be better choices but not as good as trading down. That's not easily done these days. Still, more draft choices for a team that needs everything should be the organizational mission Saturday.

Savage called quarterback a "hot button issue" when he met with the media earlier this month to talk about the draft. It's like calling a three-alarm fire "toasty."

"I can't worry about what someone else thinks," Savage said that day. "We'll have to wait and see how it turns out when someone gets on the field."

That's half true. Savage does have to worry about what owner Randy Lerner thinks. It's small wonder when Lerner looks around the division and sees Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger and Steve McNair that he wants his franchise quarterback.

The intrigue inside the organization about this pick is as thick as it will be on the field. Who knows how long coach Romeo Crennel and Savage are for their jobs? Lerner's suspected preference for a quarterback that could make him forget Trent Dilfer and Jeff Garcia likely compromises the coach's and GM's chance for a turnaround next season.

The beauty of running the Browns is management and ownership don't have to worry about what fans think. This organization could throw chum on the field (and it has) and still sell the place out.

With all its needs, it can't go terribly wrong - Gerard-Warren-over-LaDainian-Tomlinson wrong - in the first round. But there are darker shades of right. Quinn is down the list.

 

[Buc Dude]

Rebuilding the O-line like the NY Jets did last year would be a good move for this franchise. Joe Thomas and a mauling g uard in Round 2 makes a lot of sense. Having said that - does anyone think it'll happen?

 

[Fallerjw]

Rebuilding the O-line like the NY Jets did last year would be a good move for this franchise. Joe Thomas and a mauling g uard in Round 2 makes a lot of sense. Having said that - does anyone think it'll happen?

I would be thrilled. I'm imagining Joe Thomas and Grubbs / Blaylock / Sears. The Browns are in a position to rebuild. They have youth at WR, TE, LB, DB....now they just need it on the lines. Of course they need a QB, but they could bring in a veteran.

 

[ravnzfan]

With what we have to grade him on, Phil Savage is having strong drafts. His free agency moves are questionable, but have improved with Steinbach.

this is his wheelhouse...as long as he's around, he'll continue to add more talent than his peers each draftit might seem like it's slow in evolving, and might not be indicative record-wise, but the Browns this past season were better than the year before (coaching error, not GM or players cost game 1 vs Balt in '06---that'll change)...if the OL/DL get secured, there will be hell-to-pay in the division this year!

(in the past, Phil has spent time on the radio post-draft, going over the thought process as the draft unfolded---if you guys gets wind of such an interview, please link us to the site...TIA)

 

[ravnzfan]

Great column by Shaw today. Seems to be the sentiment of every Browns fans I know.

Unfortunately, almost EVERY mock I see by the so-called "experts" have the Browns taking Quinn.

...as Savage smiles that sheepish almost little boy grin---I'm "all in" on anyone other than Mr Quinn to Clev @1.3(from one who thought Quinn was a stone cold lock a month ago)

 

[dancingbones]

For the record, I would like to see the Browns select Joe Thomas at 1.03. I believe in winning at the line of scrimmage. The Browns do not dominate the line and need to improve. I believe you cannot worry if he is going to bust or not. Actually, my philosophy would be modelled after Belichick. Belichick has an extreme dedication to winning the line of scrimmage. He drafts at least two (and sometimes more) players who play on the line of scrimmage with his top 4 picks in every draft. I believe it doesn't matter if Joe Thomas is a bust or not - you just keep drafting more OL and DL every single year. Joe helps you win the LOS and fills a huge need - its such a no-brainer. I wouldn't mind Thomas in the first and Grubbs in the second, and then having Frye play behind a revamped line. We saw Garcia suck with the Browns and the Lions and then look like a completely different QB with the Eagles where he got good blocking from his OL. I do not believe we can evaluate Frye because he hasn't had good blocking. I want to see what the kid can do.

Another Browns fan hoping for some help at the LOS here. I think Frye could be a playmaker in this league if he was't running for his life from the word go on nearly every snap.The Browns really need some road graders who can let the team play successfully with a lead AND to pick up short yardage, which IMO are the team's biggest weaknesses.

 

[Peak]

Great column by Shaw today. Seems to be the sentiment of every Browns fans I know.

Unfortunately, almost EVERY mock I see by the so-called "experts" have the Browns taking Quinn.

...as Savage smiles that sheepish almost little boy grin---I'm "all in" on anyone other than Mr Quinn to Clev @1.3(from one who thought Quinn was a stone cold lock a month ago)

I just don't see Quinn being the pick. The more I see every mock draft with his name in the 1.3 slot, the more I believe we will go a different direction. Last year it was all Ngata in every mock. Now it's Quinn. Savage will end up picking someone and surprising us all.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Great column by Shaw today. Seems to be the sentiment of every Browns fans I know.

Unfortunately, almost EVERY mock I see by the so-called "experts" have the Browns taking Quinn.

I'm a die hard Browns fan and I don't want Adrian Peterson if JaMarcus Russell or Brady Quinn or Calvin Johnson or Joe Thomas is on the board. The only thing that made sense to me from Shaw's anti-QB rant was the following.

Don't throw dice for another QB

... Frye didn't do much to amass growing faith in him[/b].

Savage called quarterback a "hot button issue" when he met with the media earlier this month to talk about the draft. It's like calling a three-alarm fire "toasty."

"I can't worry about what someone else thinks," Savage said that day. "We'll have to wait and see how it turns out when someone gets on the field."

That's half true. Savage does have to worry about what owner Randy Lerner thinks. It's small wonder when Lerner looks around the division and sees Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger and Steve McNair that he wants his franchise quarterback.

The beauty of running the Browns is management and ownership don't have to worry about what fans think. This organization could throw chum on the field (and it has) and still sell the place out.

With all its needs, it can't go terribly wrong - Gerard-Warren-over-LaDainian-Tomlinson wrong - in the first round. But there are darker shades of right. Quinn is down the list.

Charlie Frye is not the answer at QB no matter how much Bud Shaw lacks the intelligence or courage required to take a QB with talent at the top of the NFL draft.Shaw trying to compare AD with LdT. LdT is the unquestionable best RB in the NFL and has been over the six seasons he's been in the league yet the undisputed best RB in the NFL over that time has never been on the winning side of a post season game. The only two times that he's made the post season he had the luxury of having a Pro Bowl QB. The other four seasons without a Pro Bowl QB LdT wasn't able to power his team to the post season. Strange eh?

Rebuilding the O-line like the NY Jets did last year would be a good move for this franchise. Joe Thomas and a mauling g uard in Round 2 makes a lot of sense. Having said that - does anyone think it'll happen?

The JETs made the post season with an established QB who has made the Pro Bowl in the past. The odd thing is how highly Man-genius prioritized the QB position by trading for a former first round QB before last year's draft AND then selecting a QB high in the second round. CuMart went down with an injury before last season began so Mangini ended up having to use a second day draft selection who went onto become the JETs leading rusher. I guess the insignicance of LdT NEVER winning a post season game and then the JETs getting to the post season without an established RB gets missed by the Bud Shaw anti-QB crowd. Maybe they don't follow football or they would see that the JETs picked up a thousand yard RB this off-season just by moving down in the second round. The JETs didn't have to blow a top pick in the draft. In the 41 year history of the Super Bowl only one top three RB who was drafted and played in the game has been on the winning team, Tony Dorsett. The odd thing is the Cowboys did not hold the top three pick used on Dorsett by status of their W/L record, they had to trade up to get TD. The most significant thing is that the Cowboys had a Hall of Fame quarterback firmly established in place, Rodger Stuaback, before they moved up for the final missing piece of their SB team puzzle and got the RB. The later Cowboy mini-dynasty first drafted Troy Aikman a few years before they got the final missing piece of the puzzle, the RB Emmit Smith. Funny that Troy Aikman was a Hall of Fame QB eh?

In case Bud Shaw missed it, Charlie Frye is not in the same universe as a Hall of Fame quarterback. Charlie Frye isn't close to being or becoming a Pro Bowl QB and in case Bud Shaw missed it Charlie Frye isn't even an average QB. Bud Shaw obviouslymissed that even the greatest RB in the game today, LaDalian Thomlinson, hasn't made the post season without a Pro Bowl quarterback so he certainly hasn't been able to figure out that a team does not blow a top three draft pick on a RB, even a stud RB, unless it has at the very least, an AVERAGE QB firmly established as starter. The Cleveand Browns do not have a HOF/Pro Bowl/Solid/ or even an AVERAGE QB with Charlie Frye.

I've heard that some of the beat writers are not Browns fans. If Bud Shaw isn't a Browns fan then his anti-QB rant would make sense. If he is a Bowns fan then he is certainly not qualified to be writing for my team if he doesn't know basic facts about the signficance of having top QB talent for getting to and winning in the post season and the INSIGNIFICANCE of wasting a top three pick on a RB. Just ask LaDalian Thomlinson, and Tony Dorsett, and Emmit Smith.

Bud Shaw can heel-toe the anti-QB rants and the RB hyperboyle.

 

[wadegarrett]

Great column by Shaw today. Seems to be the sentiment of every Browns fans I know.

Unfortunately, almost EVERY mock I see by the so-called "experts" have the Browns taking Quinn.

I'm a die hard Browns fan and I don't want Adrian Peterson if JaMarcus Russell or Brady Quinn or Calvin Johnson or Joe Thomas is on the board.

I have no problem w/ the Browns taking AP or Thomas. Both are elite prospects with low-risks as being draft busts.I can certainly see the need for Russell and Quinn and would be happy with the picks as well. I just don't see it though. Are you going to sit one of them behind Frye for a year? What could they possibly learn? Would they come in as the starter against Pittsburgh on Sept. 9th? There are just as many, if not more, busts at QB at the top of past drafts than there are RBs. I think this is what scares most people around this town.

CJ shouldn't even be on your list. Browns would be crazy to dump that much more money into the WR position. Only way the Browns should take him is to trade him.

Bottom line: if the Browns want to win this year (as Crennel needs them to), they need an immediate impact player at #3. In my mind, that's either AP or JT.

 

[Bobcat10]

Bud Shaw and guys like Livingston from the PD are idiots. They have their own agendas . I could go on and on about them, but we'll leave it at that.

I'm still torn about what I want to see, but I will say that I'll be fine with whatever Savage decides to do as long at it's not something crazy. I probably lean towards AD right now with a tossup between Thomas and Quinn if AD is gone (assuming Russell is #1). Probably Quinn, and that puts me in the minority.

Thomas just does not seem as highly regarded as other top OL picks in the past (not that they have all been superstars) and that scares me a little bit. Makes me think he's getting draft too high just because he is the best in this draft.

Then I'd like to pick up a guy like Staley, in the 2nd, assuming Thomas is not the 1st pick. If he's gone, Grubbs or Sears type player, unless someone with great value on our board drops to the 2nd round.

Another thing to ponder, we're hearing alot of if the Browns don't take Quinn or Russell in the 1st, they'd pick up Edwards in the 2nd or Smith/Beck in the 3rd. I'd rather roll with Frye/Anderson, maybe pick up a vet somehow, and see what happens this year until next draft (supposedly QB heavy). In the end, I don't think they'll go QB in the 2nd, but maybe the 3rd like they did with Frye.

 

[chris1969]

For me it's...

#1 Trade down

#2 draft Thomas

#3 draft and trade CJ

#4 draft Peterson

#5 draft and keep CJ

 

[ravnzfan]

Great column by Shaw today. Seems to be the sentiment of every Browns fans I know.

Unfortunately, almost EVERY mock I see by the so-called "experts" have the Browns taking Quinn.

...as Savage smiles that sheepish almost little boy grin---I'm "all in" on anyone other than Mr Quinn to Clev @1.3(from one who thought Quinn was a stone cold lock a month ago)

I just don't see Quinn being the pick. The more I see every mock draft with his name in the 1.3 slot, the more I believe we will go a different direction. Last year it was all Ngata in every mock. Now it's Quinn. Savage will end up picking someone and surprising us all.

exactly my point...and Phil NEVER intended to take Ngata, but knew he was at the very top of the Baltimore boardresult--and I heard this from Ozzie, not Phil---Savage calls the Ravens while Clev is OTC and asks Ozzie of he'd "like the opportunity to move up a spot and get your guy"

Ravens and Clev swap the 1 spot in the draft, for a 6th

Phil is a master at leading the pack in one direction, only to go totally in the opposite direction

w/all this "offensive playmaker talk", I'm thinking Thomas or.....Adams, in a trade back

 

[chris1969]

Great column by Shaw today. Seems to be the sentiment of every Browns fans I know.

Unfortunately, almost EVERY mock I see by the so-called "experts" have the Browns taking Quinn.

...as Savage smiles that sheepish almost little boy grin---I'm "all in" on anyone other than Mr Quinn to Clev @1.3(from one who thought Quinn was a stone cold lock a month ago)

I just don't see Quinn being the pick. The more I see every mock draft with his name in the 1.3 slot, the more I believe we will go a different direction. Last year it was all Ngata in every mock. Now it's Quinn. Savage will end up picking someone and surprising us all.

exactly my point...and Phil NEVER intended to take Ngata, but knew he was at the very top of the Baltimore boardresult--and I heard this from Ozzie, not Phil---Savage calls the Ravens while Clev is OTC and asks Ozzie of he'd "like the opportunity to move up a spot and get your guy"

Ravens and Clev swap the 1 spot in the draft, for a 6th

Phil is a master at leading the pack in one direction, only to go totally in the opposite direction

w/all this "offensive playmaker talk", I'm thinking Thomas or.....Adams, in a trade back

Wow! that's exactly on the spot! I'm thinking Thomas. Adams would be a luxury, I would really like to see him on the other side of Wimbley though!

 

[Fallerjw]

For me it's...

#1 Trade down

#2 draft Thomas

#3 draft and trade CJ

#4 draft Peterson

#5 draft and keep CJ

This is what I'm really hoping for. Best case scenario is that Russell and Adams go 1 and 2. Having CJ2, Joe Thomas, Peterson and Quinn left should entice some teams to trade up.

 

[Bobcat10]

For me it's...

#1 Trade down

#2 draft Thomas

#3 draft and trade CJ

#4 draft Peterson

#5 draft and keep CJ

This is what I'm really hoping for. Best case scenario is that Russell and Adams go 1 and 2. Having CJ2, Joe Thomas, Peterson and Quinn left should entice some teams to trade up.

That's probably #1 on most of our lists but it doesn't usually happen when you think it should.

 

[Fallerjw]

For me it's...

#1 Trade down

#2 draft Thomas

#3 draft and trade CJ

#4 draft Peterson

#5 draft and keep CJ

This is what I'm really hoping for. Best case scenario is that Russell and Adams go 1 and 2. Having CJ2, Joe Thomas, Peterson and Quinn left should entice some teams to trade up.

That's probably #1 on most of our lists but it doesn't usually happen when you think it should.

Very true. The one thing that I really won't be able to stomach is a trade up for a quarterback. I don't think it's going to happen, but if it does there will be one less working tv.

 

[wadegarrett]

For me it's...

#1 Trade down

#2 draft Thomas

#3 draft and trade CJ

#4 draft Peterson

#5 draft and keep CJ

This is what I'm really hoping for. Best case scenario is that Russell and Adams go 1 and 2. Having CJ2, Joe Thomas, Peterson and Quinn left should entice some teams to trade up.

That's probably #1 on most of our lists but it doesn't usually happen when you think it should.

Very true. The one thing that I really won't be able to stomach is a trade up for a quarterback. I don't think it's going to happen, but if it does there will be one less working tv.

If I made a reverse list of what I hope the Browns don't do, trade up is No. 1.

 

[wadegarrett]

Interesting Gosselin column...

Experience makes Quinn safe pick

Rick Gosselin

Dallas News

Wednesday, April 25, 2007

College quarterbacks tested the evaluation skills of the NFL in 1999 like no other draft. There were four passers at the top of the board – Tim Couch, Daunte Culpepper, Donovan McNabb and Akili Smith – and all had a blemish.

Couch was skipping his senior season, Smith was a junior-college transfer who threw fewer than 600 major-college passes, McNabb ran too much in college (465 times), and Culpepper came from a small school (Central Florida). All were scrutinized.

On draft day, Couch went first overall to the Cleveland Browns, McNabb second to the Philadelphia Eagles, Smith third to the Cincinnati Bengals and Culpepper 11th to the Minnesota Vikings.

Eight years later, Couch and Smith are out of the NFL. McNabb has been to five Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl. Culpepper has won two NFC passing titles, been to three Pro Bowls and taken his team to an NFC title game. Culpepper and McNabb shared a trait in their backgrounds that Couch and Smith lacked – both were four-year starters in college.

McNabb started 49 games at Syracuse and Culpepper 44 at Central Florida. They saw all that college defenses had to offer. The more snaps you take, the more passes you throw, the better prepared a college quarterback will be for the NFL. There will be fewer surprises at the next level.

So don't undersell Brady Quinn in the 2007 NFL draft.

There hasn't been a college quarterback more prepared to enter than NFL since Peyton Manning in 1998. There is no bust factor in Quinn.

History tells us that. In the last 10 years, the NFL has used 10 first-round picks on quarterbacks who were four-year starters in college. Only one washed out – Cade McNown, who was the fifth quarterback selected in that Class of 1999.

Of those 10 four-year starters, five have become Pro Bowlers: Culpepper, McNabb, Manning , Carson Palmer (drafted in 2003) and Philip Rivers (2004). Two have won NFL passing titles, Manning and Chad Pennington (drafted in 2000), and two have been to Super Bowls, Manning and McNabb.

Seven are currently starting: Manning, McNabb, Pennington, Palmer, Rivers, Jason Campbell (drafted in 2005) and Jay Cutler (2006).

Kyle Boller (drafted in 2003) lost his starting job in 2006 when the Baltimore Ravens signed former NFL MVP Steve McNair in free agency. Boller left the lineup with a winning NFL record (18-16) and more TD passes (36) than interceptions (34). He remains in Baltimore as a backup. Culpepper lost his starting position at Miami in 2006 because of a knee injury.

There's a school of thought that one of every two quarterbacks selected in the first-round of NFL drafts is a bust. But the deck is stacked in favor of those four-year starters for NFL survival.

Of the 10, only Rivers, Pennington and McNabb started more games than Quinn. And only Rivers and Pennington threw more college passes. Also, Rivers (North Carolina State), Pennington (Marshall) and McNabb (Syracuse) didn't play in the pressure cooker that is Notre Dame.

"Notre Dame has a national audience," Quinn said. "Someone's always watching across the nation every Saturday. We have fans tuning in. We've got fans everywhere. When you step into those shoes as the Notre Dame quarterback, the spotlight is always going to be on you.

"You come into every game knowing you're going to get the other team's best shot. The first five teams we played last year were all undefeated at the time we played them. That says something about the caliber of our schedule – who we play year-in and year-out."

Quinn has spent four seasons playing in front of crowds bigger, louder and more hostile than what he'll face in the NFL.

That crowd of 90,000-plus at Washington's FedEx Field, the NFL's largest stadium, won't faze Quinn – not after winning games in his college career at Michigan in front of 111,000 fans and at Tennessee in front of 107,000.

Quinn also spent the last two years operating the NFL-style offense of Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis, the former offensive coordinator of the three-time Super Bowl champion New England Patriots.

So Quinn spent his last two seasons making the same reads, calling the same audibles and throwing the same passes as Tom Brady. He leaves South Bend as Notre Dame's all-time leading passer.

Quinn may not be the best player in the 2007 NFL draft. But he may be the safest pick.

Here's a list of the four-year college starters at quarterback selected in the first round of NFL drafts the last 10 years, stacked in terms of career starts, and where Notre Dame's Brady Quinn would fit into this list:

Draft  Quarterback	  College  Starts	Passes  Drafting team  2003  Kyle Boller	  Cal		40	   1,301	 Baltimore  2005  Jason Campbell	Auburn  40	   854	  Washington  2003  Carson Palmer	  USC	  44	  1,538	Cincinnati  1999  Daunte Culpepper Central FL  44  1,391	  Minnesota  1999  Cade McNown	  UCLA	  44	  1,250	Chicago  1998  Peyton Manning	Tennessee  45  1,381	Indianapolis  2006  Jay Cutler		Vanderbilt  45   1,242	Denver  2007  Brady Quinn	Notre Dame  46  1,602	  TBD  1999  Donovan McNabb  Syracuse  49	938	   Philadelphia  2004  Philip Rivers	NC State  51	1,665	 NY Giants  2000  Chad Pennington  Marshall  51	1,619	 NY Jets

 

[Bobcat10]

Anyone listen this morning to Savage's weekly interview on Wills/Snyder?

Trying to remember this the best I can, but.......

The question was posed to him how player visits effect players moving up/down the draft board and if there were any players that have visited the Browns that have helped/hurt their stock based on visits.

Savage obviously would never dive into names with a question like this and he explained a little bit about what happens at the visits. Then he said a player was in there YESTERDAY who hurt his stock with the Browns as they didn't like the way he carried himself at the Berea facility. He didn't detail exactly what he meant (like he was rude, cocky, too nonchalant, etc), but he definitely sounded like they wouldn't be taking this player.

I think all of the big 5 have been to Berea already, with Calvin being the last one. I don't think that was yesterday.

Anyone know who visited yesterday? Might be a significant player, might not be. You would think inviting a guy to town would mean the Browns were looking hard at him.

 

[wadegarrett]

Anyone listen this morning to Savage's weekly interview on Wills/Snyder?Trying to remember this the best I can, but.......The question was posed to him how player visits effect players moving up/down the draft board and if there were any players that have visited the Browns that have helped/hurt their stock based on visits.Savage obviously would never dive into names with a question like this and he explained a little bit about what happens at the visits. Then he said a player was in there YESTERDAY who hurt his stock with the Browns as they didn't like the way he carried himself at the Berea facility. He didn't detail exactly what he meant (like he was rude, cocky, too nonchalant, etc), but he definitely sounded like they wouldn't be taking this player.I think all of the big 5 have been to Berea already, with Calvin being the last one. I don't think that was yesterday.Anyone know who visited yesterday? Might be a significant player, might not be. You would think inviting a guy to town would mean the Browns were looking hard at him.

I heard the tail end of the conversation. Pretty sure all of the top 5 already came through. Not sure who it was then. :(

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Interesting Gosselin column...

Experience makes Quinn safe pick

Rick Gosselin

... The more snaps you take, the more passes you throw, the better prepared a college quarterback will be for the NFL.

... There hasn't been a college quarterback more prepared to enter than NFL since Peyton Manning in 1998. There is no bust factor in Quinn.

... In the last 10 years, the NFL has used 10 first-round picks on quarterbacks who were four-year starters in college. Only one washed out –

... the deck is stacked in favor of those four-year starters for NFL survival.

Quinn may not be the best player in the 2007 NFL draft. But he may be the safest pick.

Lets see, Bud Shaw or Rich Gosselin? Should I side with Rich Gosselin or Bud Shaw and stick with Charlie Frye?This might help me make my decision.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...rson/index.html

Teams wary of Peterson's health

Oklahoma RB re-injured his collarbone in Fiesta Bowl

... at least two teams that SI.com spoke to acknowledged that Peterson's health was a consideration in their draft analysis.

A high-level source on one team said the evaluation of his team's medical staff was that Peterson will require a surgical procedure, which would delay his availability at the start of training camp and perhaps longer. That team estimated Peterson would be sidelined after the procedure for "two or three months." That would likely mean Peterson would miss the entire offseason workouts of the team that drafted him and make him questionable for the early part of the preseason.

"Because of him re-injuring it in the bowl game, it's not as far along as it should be, it's not healed," said a team executive. "He lost three months with the re-injury. The question is, will it be healed enough to take a hit. Or will he hurt it again, the way [ex-Detroit receiver Charles Rogers] kept doing.

"It's not enough to take him off anyone's board, but it's a concern because of his straight-up running style. He has been a bit injury-prone and now you've got a situation where you're drafting damaged goods."

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

... In light of Banks' report, it's now obvious that Peterson won't be drafted at No. 3. And with coaches installing much of the offense and defense in the offseason program, Peterson's absence will definitely impact preparations for his rookie season.

Though Banks thinks he won't get past No. 10 to Houston, we think this could drop him to the Bills at No. 12.

It might be crazy not to go with Bud Shaw and Charlie Frye but I think I choose to side with Rich Gosselin on this one.