2008 Feedback and 2009 Suggestions (1 Viewer)

[Jene Bramel]

Congratulations to those who had successful seasons and much thanks to those who contributed to the continuing success of the Forum this year. We're not closing the book on 2008 yet, but with most leagues ending in Week 16, it's not too early to start thinking about next season.

Over the past three years, we've added an IDP specific advice forum, added specific CB and DT rankings to the database, added multiple new matchup tools, revamped our faceoff/spotlight/value plays offseason features and started a weekly IDP podcasts and more.

We're interested in both what you would like to see continued and what you'd like to see added or given a higher priority.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Posts added from a thread last week...

I greatly appreciate that FBGs have IDP coverage to the degree that they do. I find value in each of the Reading the Defense, Ear to the Ground, Eyes of the Guru, and IDP General Admission columns each week, along with Dynasty IDP Buy/Low. However...in the spirit of constructive criticism...sometimes the columns cover the same or similar ground. Oft times I read the more or less the same comments about the same players on each team. Given that you have four to five IDP beat writers, maybe you could carve out more distinct roles for each one, rather than giving them free license to write whatever? There have been weeks where I'm looking for comments on the LB situation for team A, and find 2,3 or 4 writers talking about their DL situation only. Maybe some writers could be charged with certain teams? Or positions? Or defensive schemes? Or starters/current season vs. dynasty/long term considerations? Again, I greatly appreciate that this coverage exists at all...this is a nice problem to have.

I like the idea of position reports for each team

 

[tones]

I wouldn’t mind seeing something in the off season like an IDP course. Starting with the IDP 101 – 401 materials as a base (I always pick up some additional info by reading and hearing this material again) and then progressing to more advanced material as to what steps various FBG staffers use to set their lineups (this is in SOME articles). Why they value some tools more than others and how one would go about setting up their own projections or information database on IDP players. I would also be VERY curious how the staffers allocate players by positions on their rosters (not IDP only). I realize rosters are point and starter dependent but would be curious to see what the sharks do.

Keep up the EXCELLENT work and Happy Holidays!

 

[Outkast]

Jene,

thanks for ALL of the IDP sections on your website, all the hard work is apprciated.

I find all of the info & all of the statistical breakdowns you provide VERY helpful - both in managing my roster & the weekly WDIS decisions

IDP leagues are for more of the 'purists" - jmo & you guys do a FANTASTIC job keep it up....PLEEEAASE!!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS to you & yours

 

[Badm]

I think you guys do a great job and are the best in the business. These are just my thoughts. IDP isn't a 'new' thing anymore. More and more people are doing IDP and your competitors were way behind you in IDP info before, but are now catching up. The IDP AC forum is excellent and you guys take alot of time to provide your input which is really great and keeps you above the 'others'. The one thing that I think can be improved are the projections. On offense, its not very useful, since it appears there isn't a big difference between the studs and average players, especially at WR. Bloom's projections are much much better. I know its alot of work, but it seems the offense projections are formula run.

On defense, different story. But I am concerned it will be like this one day. I know there is a FBG article about matchups, but I thought a different kind of article would be useful and great, and should be relaitively easy with your knowledge. When I review the IDP projections, I try to compare the players weekly average vs what he is projected to do. If I see a big disparity, I wonder why and try to investigate it. If there was a weekly article with the big differences between weekly average and that one week's projection, it would be huge. Especially if its due to a particular 1 vs 1 matchup.

I think its well known of the CB in Oak (osumaga sp?) who shuts down opposing WRs, but especially for DL, matchups are huge. A particular team may be good from giving up sacks. But it all depends on who is rushing the QB. For example, 1 OL may be able to hold off a smaller but quicker pass rusher, but a bigger and more powerful one, they get beat consistently. This year, I had Lamarr Woodley and this was very evident in his games. Some OL just stuck him, while others he blew right by. It was very consistent, but the projections didn't account for this.

Anyways, great job as always. Really enjoy reading your articles and using the tools. Will sign up again next year for sure!!!!

 

[Fiddles]

when I do a player search on footballguys.com, the player page brings up excerpts from any relevant articles that were posted this week by staff.

for instance if i search for shaun hill, his outlook page has a paragraph excerpt from bob henrys week 16 sleeper report

is there any chance to have these excerpts on idp player outlook pages that pull from the eotg, ear to the ground, idp sleepers, etc?

 

[Fiddles]

I greatly appreciate that FBGs have IDP coverage to the degree that they do. I find value in each of the Reading the Defense, Ear to the Ground, Eyes of the Guru, and IDP General Admission columns each week, along with Dynasty IDP Buy/Low. However...in the spirit of constructive criticism...sometimes the columns cover the same or similar ground. Oft times I read the more or less the same comments about the same players on each team. Given that you have four to five IDP beat writers, maybe you could carve out more distinct roles for each one, rather than giving them free license to write whatever? There have been weeks where I'm looking for comments on the LB situation for team A, and find 2,3 or 4 writers talking about their DL situation only. Maybe some writers could be charged with certain teams? Or positions? Or defensive schemes? Or starters/current season vs. dynasty/long term considerations? Again, I greatly appreciate that this coverage exists at all...this is a nice problem to have.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I just want to thank you guys for all your hard work and one thing in particular: the wonderful level of respect for any and all opinions shown in this forum. Some of that has to do with having less users than the Shark Pool of course. But I think you IDP staff members set a wonderful example here by listening to other opinions and never letting your ego or status as staff get in the way of a good discussion. It rubs off on almost everyone who visits here and makes this the best forum on the board.

 

[duece2626]

I just want to thank you guys for all your hard work and one thing in particular: the wonderful level of respect for any and all opinions shown in this forum. Some of that has to do with having less users than the Shark Pool of course. But I think you IDP staff members set a wonderful example here by listening to other opinions and never letting your ego or status as staff get in the way of a good discussion. It rubs off on almost everyone who visits here and makes this the best forum on the board.

 

[Buffaloes]

I just want to thank you guys for all your hard work and one thing in particular: the wonderful level of respect for any and all opinions shown in this forum. Some of that has to do with having less users than the Shark Pool of course. But I think you IDP staff members set a wonderful example here by listening to other opinions and never letting your ego or status as staff get in the way of a good discussion. It rubs off on almost everyone who visits here and makes this the best forum on the board.

Seriously, thanks for all the help/hard work guys. I had a good deal of success this year thanks in large part to your advice and the info from other posters on this forum.

 

[Jayrod]

One thing I think could be helpful, but fairly simple for you guys to do would be to put the IDP articles/data on the weekly subscriber content into its own section.

Basically, instead of:

Offensive Sleepers - Henry ***Passing Matchups - Wimer ***Rushing Matchups - Wimer ***IDP Sleepers - BorbelyValue Plays - TefertillerOvervalued Players - TefertillerTrend-Spotting - SmithDynasty IDP Buy Low / Sell High - BorbelyEyes of the Guru - NortonIDP Matchups - Bramel / ThomasThe Profit - BrownPower Rankings - BrownYou could have:

Standard positions:Offensive Sleepers - Henry ***Passing Matchups - Wimer ***Rushing Matchups - Wimer ***Value Plays - TefertillerOvervalued Players - TefertillerTrend-Spotting - SmithThe Profit - BrownPower Rankings - BrownIDP:IDP Sleepers - BorbelyDynasty IDP Buy Low / Sell High - BorbelyEyes of the Guru - NortonIDP Matchups - Bramel / Thomas

It would help for scanning through the articles to find the IDP ones....I could see that helping both the IDPers and non-IDPers as neither wants to necessarily scan through every article to find info they want/need. And with the high number of articles you guys put out every week, it can be hard to quickly scan for what you are looking for.ETA: And thanks for a great year. Even though I didn't go back to back in my IDP dynasty league this year, I still made the semifinals (and would have won it all had I made it this week). Your info is a primary reason for my success. I'm a 2-time subscriber and will be back again next year.

 

[Fiddles]

I just want to thank you guys for all your hard work and one thing in particular: the wonderful level of respect for any and all opinions shown in this forum. Some of that has to do with having less users than the Shark Pool of course. But I think you IDP staff members set a wonderful example here by listening to other opinions and never letting your ego or status as staff get in the way of a good discussion. It rubs off on almost everyone who visits here and makes this the best forum on the board.

well said

 

[Jene Bramel]

Thanks for the suggestions and comments so far.

 

[Drop]

I like all the theory work on fundamentals and concepts of the game. All the stat analysis is cool too, but understanding the concepts makes football more enjoyable to watch and that's what it's all about for me.

Jene, I really liked the articles you did on the 4-3, 3-4, etc. I think they have made an impact on many people here and raised the overall level of discussion. It's cool that you incorporated some history of the game, because the evolution of the game teaches us a lot as well.

Draftguys TV should have won an emmy. Please tell me they plan to expand the number or profiles for this upcoming draft, and perhaps give us access to all the raw footage of player drills that hit the cutting room floor.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Draftguys TV should have won an emmy. Please tell me they plan to expand the number or profiles for this upcoming draft, and perhaps give us access to all the raw footage of player drills that hit the cutting room floor.

We're planning on doing more to take the viewer "inside the drills" this year. The hotels and plane tickets are booked, we'll be at all three all star games again.

 

[Rozelle]

Draftguys TV should have won an emmy. Please tell me they plan to expand the number or profiles for this upcoming draft, and perhaps give us access to all the raw footage of player drills that hit the cutting room floor.

We're planning on doing more to take the viewer "inside the drills" this year. The hotels and plane tickets are booked, we'll be at all three all star games again.

Is this right Bloom?East West Shrine - Jan. 17, 2009 - Houston, Texas

Senior Bowl - Jan. 24, 2009 - Mobile, Alabama

Texas vs Nation - Jan. 31 - El Paso, Texas

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Draftguys TV should have won an emmy. Please tell me they plan to expand the number or profiles for this upcoming draft, and perhaps give us access to all the raw footage of player drills that hit the cutting room floor.

We're planning on doing more to take the viewer "inside the drills" this year. The hotels and plane tickets are booked, we'll be at all three all star games again.

Is this right Bloom?East West Shrine - Jan. 17, 2009 - Houston, Texas

Senior Bowl - Jan. 24, 2009 - Mobile, Alabama

Texas vs Nation - Jan. 31 - El Paso, Texas

Yes sir, although I misspeak when I say we'll be "at the games" - we actually just take in the week of practices and rest on the weekend, watching the actual games at home.

 

[Rozelle]

Draftguys TV should have won an emmy. Please tell me they plan to expand the number or profiles for this upcoming draft, and perhaps give us access to all the raw footage of player drills that hit the cutting room floor.

We're planning on doing more to take the viewer "inside the drills" this year. The hotels and plane tickets are booked, we'll be at all three all star games again.

Is this right Bloom?East West Shrine - Jan. 17, 2009 - Houston, Texas

Senior Bowl - Jan. 24, 2009 - Mobile, Alabama

Texas vs Nation - Jan. 31 - El Paso, Texas

Yes sir, although I misspeak when I say we'll be "at the games" - we actually just take in the week of practices and rest on the weekend, watching the actual games at home.

Good deal... looking forward, ya'll did a great job with this last year.Found the East West Shrine Rosters, but can't find Senior Bowl or Texas vs Nation. Is it too early for them? Interested in seeing if Florida Atlantic LB Frantz Joseph will play in any of these.

 

[Dirty Hairy]

I'd like to see more consistency on "tiering" the players.

Rankings and analysis are great but I would like more clarity on what analysts think about players relative to the pool of other players.

For example, a simple way is to classify players is into "stud", #1, #2, #3, #4, or bench. Thus it would be easy for various league owners to evaluate the players because some leagues start one IDP at each position while others start four IDP's.

This would be especially helpful when discussing players emerging, the upgrades/downgrades, and waiver wire list. This has been a long-standing complaint of mine regarding the offensive players - every player is listed. Show me relativity.

 

[PewterFan]

In regards to the weekly cheatsheet, what's the reason behind having an OLB and ILB ranking? Are there a lot of leagues out there that differentiate between the two in starting lineups? I would think there's more who doesn't.

For those of use who are in IDP's leagues that doesn't differentiate between the two it's probably best to look at the ALL IDP rankings to see who FBG's favor when deciding between a OLB and a ILB.

For example lets say I'm trying to decide who to start between Clint Sessions and Barrett Ruud. If Sessions is ranked #20 in the OLB Rankings and Ruud is ranked #20 in the MLB Rankings I just go over to the ALL IDP rankings to see who FBG's favors.

So with that in mind, maybe you guys can color code players by position in the ALL IDP rankings? With all the DT's, DE's, ILB's, OLB's, CB's and S's together in one ranking it would make life easier when trying to find and compare two players who are in 'different' positions.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I would like to see updated dynasty rankings as the season progresses. Right now, there have been no rankings submitted for IDPs in the last 35 days and the last updated rankings were done in November by Bloom, who appears to be the only staff member who did any sort update during the season.

 

[PewterFan]

Right now, there have been no rankings submitted for IDPs in the last 35 days

I think when that happens the website should take you to the latest rankings, even if it was done 2 months ago. Not the 'No rankings submitted within the last 7 days.' message. linkI feel like I'm telling a drop-dead gorgeous model to shed a few pounds since fbg's is my favorite website, but I think suggestions are important to improve a product, even if it's already great.

 

[Toads]

POINT #1

Seems like information is king and that the requests for information always prevail when you ask this question: "How Do We Get Better?"

Problem is is that you tend to disregard the requests because there is no off-season answer to the information flow, which is dependent of consensus judgement and information that develops orgainically......as the off-season progresses. Guys (and Gals) that want early season information are "fresh outta Ice Cream."

Or, are they?

You (Jene Bramel) referred me to the WSL process in the Mocks Are Us board function....so, I went there. My initial impression was that these guys were really serving a function. The information was well laid out as to Mock Results, color coded by player position and position coded by draft order (WR-X, RB-X, etc). Ther wass zero content for IDP information seekers but that's to be expected....untill someone want to foster an IDP mock, that will always be the case.

Then after seeing a ray of hope on the horizon, I find out that the independent fact finding process that is this combined Mock Draft group, multiple guys who are really engaged in this and seem to devote a lot of time to it....that there is no central compliation for ADP. At least that seemed to be the case. Maybe there is one guy that wanted to so that or maybe I want to wait a couple of drafts and do the excel deal myself?

No biggie but it looks, on the preliminary, that this is a valuable tool to answer the guys that are bouncing off the off-season walls.

Then, reality raises it's ugly head. Seems that this is a PPR group, that's still not biggie.....but then I'm alerted to the 2 pts/reception scoring for TE's. Now, I was in a start up dynasty a couple of year's ago and 1.5 pts/reception yielded two TE's in the top ten drafted players when it was plugged into the FBG's Draft Dominator tool. When you check their drafts, they are "feeling there way through" the process, drafting the first TE somewhere in the teens.

So, Hope no longer modifies Audacity, at least once I find that this group is not reality based. A good potential tool gone awry.

With a little bit of direction from the site Host, this whole deal is a gold mine. At present, it's a touchy, feelie mess. A dose

of disicipline is required as a "pont in every direction seems to be the same as no point at all" in the present incarnation.

POINT #2

The difference in scoring systems.

There's an excellent post in the Will Witherspoon IDP thread which alerts the multitude to the difference between "Standard FBG's Scoring" and "Tackle Heavy Scoring."

Again information that's solid and real. But, same deal: information is only as good as your access to it.

A tool to allow the input of the recipients league information is ideal but I don't know if it's possible to display such an animal in the pinned topics for SP and IDP Land. If it is possible, Witherspoon, Will's projected line for '09 means only as much as the league that you occupy....am I in a "Tackle Heavy Leaque?" Am I in a "Big Plays League?' Am I in a "Standard FBG's Scoring" League? Beats me but I've seen the information somewhere in past years....as to what constitutes what....but it beats me where it resides. If it's pinned in both places and I'm negligent for not referrencing it....that's my bad.

CONCLUSION #2: provide the information needed to infer an answer or, better yet, provide the custom tool to allow me to see the difference between scoring systems....is my League slanted toward Demarcus Ware or do I want Patrick Willis?

But if you're really interested in the answer to the question, the answer is Information and Access to Information.....YEAR ROUND and maybe some direction and guidance to the meaningless mass to provide it in the times when it doesn't exist.

You do the best there is now but there's way's to improve.....believe it or not.

The problem with feed back loups is that the reciepients tend to disregard the results.

 

[The Man With No Name]

In regards to the weekly cheatsheet, what's the reason behind having an OLB and ILB ranking? Are there a lot of leagues out there that differentiate between the two in starting lineups? I would think there's more who doesn't.

For those of use who are in IDP's leagues that doesn't differentiate between the two it's probably best to look at the ALL IDP rankings to see who FBG's favor when deciding between a OLB and a ILB.

For example lets say I'm trying to decide who to start between Clint Sessions and Barrett Ruud. If Sessions is ranked #20 in the OLB Rankings and Ruud is ranked #20 in the MLB Rankings I just go over to the ALL IDP rankings to see who FBG's favors.

So with that in mind, maybe you guys can color code players by position in the ALL IDP rankings? With all the DT's, DE's, ILB's, OLB's, CB's and S's together in one ranking it would make life easier when trying to find and compare two players who are in 'different' positions.

In MYFBG it pretty much takes care of it because you can see all your players projections close together. Are you not a paid member?

 

[Jene Bramel]

But if you're really interested in the answer to the question, the answer is Information and Access to Information.....YEAR ROUND and maybe some direction and guidance to the meaningless mass to provide it in the times when it doesn't exist.You do the best there is now but there's way's to improve.....believe it or not.The problem with feed back loups is that the reciepients tend to disregard the results.

We certainly wouldn't be posting threads like this if we weren't intending on acting on those requests that can be reasonably acted upon (i.e. possible within the constraints of our database or within an effective time frame). There have been many changes to how we do things on the IDP side that originated in threads like this (DT/CB split, parts of the MyFBG function, AC Forum, etc). We very much appreciate all the comments in these threads.With regard to your more specific points, I agree that we could do a better job of highlighting where to find IDP information. I had pinned a brief post on how to maximize the IDP stuff during the season, but a more in-depth guide on how to use FBG for IDP purposes is probably warranted. I'll add that to my to-do list this offseason. And I could probably do a better job of keeping the FAQ thread up to date.I think a set of leagues similar to those in the Mock Drafts R Us Forum that include IDPs would be a great addition to our offseason discussion and would be willing to assist anyone interested in setting them up.The sack-to-tackle ratio is something that I've pushed as a way to determine whether a league is tackle or big play heavy. Very generally speaking, a sack-to-tackle ratio of around 3.0-3.5 should be considered neutral, with higher ratios big play heavy and lower ratios tackle heavy. I'm planning a more specific article on that idea this summer, but other than a number of forum posts discussing the concept, there hasn't been anything published. You can set multiple scoring system profiles on your MyFBG page to see how a player's ranking may change (based on a given year's stats or inseason projections) within certain scoring systems. The wide variation of scoring systems and current database setup would likely prevent us from adding three lines of stat projections (tackle, neutral, big play) to a player's profile page.Thanks for the post. I especially think an article summarizing all our IDP content (both FBG staff and community generated) would be a great addition.

 

[PewterFan]

Are you not a paid member?

I am. I haven't taken advantage of MyFBG's as much.

 

[Toads]

But if you're really interested in the answer to the question, the answer is Information and Access to Information.....YEAR ROUND and maybe some direction and guidance to the meaningless mass to provide it in the times when it doesn't exist.

You do the best there is now but there's way's to improve.....believe it or not.

The problem with feed back loups is that the reciepients tend to disregard the results.

Lots of "nuts and bolts" here so I'll deposit in boldWe certainly wouldn't be posting threads like this if we weren't intending on acting on those requests that can be reasonably acted upon (i.e. possible within the constraints of our database or within an effective time frame). There have been many changes to how we do things on the IDP side that originated in threads like this (DT/CB split, parts of the MyFBG function, AC Forum, etc). We very much appreciate all the comments in these threads.

At least a portion of this response(s) is OFF side of the ball, too. The discussion really pertains to the Off season content, about guys (and gals) bouncing off the walls looking for early content. As the information curve start spitting out information, the FBG's rankings begin showing up.

With regard to your more specific points, I agree that we could do a better job of highlighting where to find IDP information. I had pinned a brief post on how to maximize the IDP stuff during the season, but a more in-depth guide on how to use FBG for IDP purposes is probably warranted. I'll add that to my to-do list this offseason. And I could probably do a better job of keeping the FAQ thread up to date.

You pegged a series of articles from certain weeks ....pointed the way there. What you did that bears watching is point me to the WSL threads in the "Mocks Are Us" portion of the site. Your suggestion is one that I followed...went there and registered for a Mock or two.

What I found was a group of dedicated guys.. I made inquires about format and received a ton of good solid information. What these guys are involved with is good, basic FFB finaticism and doing Mocks on a continuing basis. They currently have no IDP Mocks but that's just a function of spreading the word. What I did find out was that they are intrenced in a mock world that is imaginary....it's a 2 point/reception for TE's that's just there because that's the way they do it..."to add spice" evidently.

The Shark Pool, and the IDP Pool, are both flush with off-seson information requests, and they will be until the content begins appearing from the FBG's staff. The point here is that the content from the Mocks is a short off-season bridge to what seems like reality if the TE scoring is slightly tweaked; quick, publishable content.

I think a set of leagues similar to those in the Mock Drafts R Us Forum that include IDPs would be a great addition to our offseason discussion and would be willing to assist anyone interested in setting them up.

Probably true but, again, there is so much variation in the information curve that any IDP content is mearly "blue sky" until a fixed point on the NFL schedule and that is probably sometime after the NFL Rookie Draft and right before camps start....say first to second week in May. Then the IDP Mocks would start to reflect the information curve.

The sack-to-tackle ratio is something that I've pushed as a way to determine whether a league is tackle or big play heavy. Very generally speaking, a sack-to-tackle ratio of around 3.0-3.5 should be considered neutral, with higher ratios big play heavy and lower ratios tackle heavy. I'm planning a more specific article on that idea this summer, but other than a number of forum posts discussing the concept, there hasn't been anything published. You can set multiple scoring system profiles on your MyFBG page to see how a player's ranking may change (based on a given year's stats or inseason projections) within certain scoring systems. The wide variation of scoring systems and current database setup would likely prevent us from adding three lines of stat projections (tackle, neutral, big play) to a player's profile page.

Maybe this is over simplyfing but a comparison of a hypothetical season projection for two LB's, and two each for DT's, DE's S's and CB's would serve to highlight the opposit spectrums of the scoring system question. But, as much work as you've been able to do for tech-ie related stuff, it doesn't seem to that difficult to be able to put in a fill in the blanks drop down for each scoring IDP category and to be able to spot how different League's scoring effects projected player value (including half sacks). You figure out a players projected scoring line, plug in your League criteria and WA-LA!....real time information.

Thanks for the post. I especially think an article summarizing all our IDP content (both FBG staff and community generated) would be a great addition.

Do I hear a Big Amen?

And, thanks for all you do.

 

[tones]

This is not just IDP but I’ll start there. The dynasty rankings are based on the FBG scoring which is fine assuming that you use that as your format. I realize that some in dynasty use a numbers approach over a period of years to ascertain a points total while others don’t. For those that come by the rankings using numbers – tackles, assist, rushing yards, etc. could they share them? I could easily clip them into a spreadsheet and apply my scoring. I would be curious to see how the rankings change and if they are material.

 

[Rovers]

I don't know if this is the right place...

The weekly cheat sheets have a "flex player" section. The problem is that Adrian Peterson and L Fitzgerald aren't "flex" players, so why are they listed there? I'd like to see that sheet exclude the top ten RB's, the top 15WR's and so on. That alone would force the flex cheat sheet to include 25 more marginal players, and that is what the flex play in FF is all about.

To take this to the IDP arena, a similar "flex" sheet would be great. In most of my leagues, I can flex between LB's, DL's and DB's. To see them all ranked out as a group based on standard scoring would be pretty cool. Again, I think any flex sheet should exclude all the no-brainer stars that never get benched.

Other than that, you guys do an incredible job here. It's the only site I pay for, and it's well worth every penny.

 

[Toads]

This is not just IDP but I’ll start there. The dynasty rankings are based on the FBG scoring which is fine assuming that you use that as your format. I realize that some in dynasty use a numbers approach over a period of years to ascertain a points total while others don’t. For those that come by the rankings using numbers – tackles, assist, rushing yards, etc. could they share them? I could easily clip them into a spreadsheet and apply my scoring. I would be curious to see how the rankings change and if they are material.

Tried to send you a PM but that didn't work because your PM'er is disabled.Plung into the "Draft Dominator Tool." It doesn't get much better than that for answering your question.

If you want some help as to how to use the monster, shoot me a PM.