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I'd be surprised if Bryant is next in line in terms of draft grade to just those WRs. Braylon Edwards & Roy Wililams were also big prospects.After those WRs listed, there aren't very many blue chip prospects at the WR position who have come out in the past little while.Calvin Johnson, Fitzgerald, and maybe Rogers/AJ are the only WRs taken this decade who are arguably better prospects.
He's a better prospect than Roy or Braylon were, at least from what I see and I had seen a good amount of both of those WRs in college. Calvin and Fitz were out of this world but Dez is closer to them than Braylon or Roy were to him.I'd be surprised if Bryant is next in line in terms of draft grade to just those WRs. Braylon Edwards & Roy Wililams were also big prospects.After those WRs listed, there aren't very many blue chip prospects at the WR position who have come out in the past little while.Calvin Johnson, Fitzgerald, and maybe Rogers/AJ are the only WRs taken this decade who are arguably better prospects.
What he did off the football field was very minor in comparison to "real" off the field issues, don't you think? F-ing lying to the NCAA about off-season contact with a former NFL player has to be the dumbest reason's for a suspension in the history of the NCAA.
You would be correct sir.He's a better prospect than Roy or Braylon were, at least from what I see and I had seen a good amount of both of those WRs in college. Calvin and Fitz were out of this world but Dez is closer to them than Braylon or Roy were to him.I'd be surprised if Bryant is next in line in terms of draft grade to just those WRs. Braylon Edwards & Roy Wililams were also big prospects.After those WRs listed, there aren't very many blue chip prospects at the WR position who have come out in the past little while.Calvin Johnson, Fitzgerald, and maybe Rogers/AJ are the only WRs taken this decade who are arguably better prospects.
Even if Spiller goes to a good spot, I think Bryant should be the #1 pick in PPR. My hope drafting 3rd is that one of the "lesser" RBs (Dwyer, Best or Mathews) goes to a good spot and drops Bryant or Spiller to me.Not to mention the kid has heart. Check him out in his Bowl game last year. I think OK State was playing Oregon, anyway, the kid kept coming back to try and will his team to a win......He either sprained his knee, or some type of leg injury that looked bad. He probably should not have come back in, but that's what you want in a player. Looks to me like he has heart and a solid work ethic from his body composition. Something braylon and Roy williams are questioned on repeatedly.
How much of Benn's struggles were injury related aand how much were related to his team's struggles? Or did he really regress that much over the course of the offseason? I did not get much of an opportunity to watch him play this season, but was really impressed the last couple of seasons.
Why are Mathews and Dwyer lesser backs? How much have you seen f Mathews to make that assessment? I have seen very little, as Fresno doesn't make a lot TV time in Maine, but everything I have seen from him impresses me. He has great fundamentals, is a three down back, has good size, and carries the ball in the correct hand.Even if Spiller goes to a good spot, I think Bryant should be the #1 pick in PPR. My hope drafting 3rd is that one of the "lesser" RBs (Dwyer, Best or Mathews) goes to a good spot and drops Bryant or Spiller to me.
From what I saw of him last season, he was a bit overrated in the first place. Sometimes prospects are given too much credit by internet pundits based on their reputation out of high school. Benn was an elite national recruit coming out of high school, so when he showed some flashes of brilliance on the field at Illinois, he was automatically assumed to be an elite pro prospect. Same thing is happening with Julio Jones.
I put it in quotes because that was my assessment and it was shaky. That's what the quotes are for. Sorry that wasn't more clear.Why are Mathews and Dwyer lesser backs? How much have you seen f Mathews to make that assessment? I have seen very little, as Fresno doesn't make a lot TV time in Maine, but everything I have seen from him impresses me. He has great fundamentals, is a three down back, has good size, and carries the ball in the correct hand.Even if Spiller goes to a good spot, I think Bryant should be the #1 pick in PPR. My hope drafting 3rd is that one of the "lesser" RBs (Dwyer, Best or Mathews) goes to a good spot and drops Bryant or Spiller to me.
Been struggled with injury much of the year. Juice was terrible this year. Both contributed to a bad year. It's the right decision for him to go pro.I'd put Benn on par with Nicks. I expect him to be a Round 1 pick.
No problem. I have seen a fair bit of Dwyer, and I think he projects well at the next level, provided his athleticism is what it appears to be on the screen. He is a bit difficult to project because of the offense, but I think he showed enough in Gailey's offense as a freshman. I didn't know how much you know about Mathews. From the little I have seen, he seems to have everything you would look for in a back. I see him as a slightly more talented Forte- a complete 3 down back with good size who does many things well, but isn't necessarily electric. He can make the big play though; he does have at least 8 runs over 50 yards this year.I put it in quotes because that was my assessment and it was shaky. That's what the quotes are for. Sorry that wasn't more clear.Why are Mathews and Dwyer lesser backs? How much have you seen f Mathews to make that assessment? I have seen very little, as Fresno doesn't make a lot TV time in Maine, but everything I have seen from him impresses me. He has great fundamentals, is a three down back, has good size, and carries the ball in the correct hand.
If Mathews is drafted in Round 2, (and I think his stock soars going forward), I could definitely see NE taking him. Pat Hill is a great coach and Belichick thinks very highly of him. Mathews has played in pro sets and in the shot gun. He looks like he could step right in as a 3 down back.
You watching the same player i'm watching? Mathews is most certainly electric, definitely more electric than Forte. I don't know what you see in Mathews that makes makes you compare him to Matt Forte over all other RBs in the league.
I'm not sure he'll fall out of the first when it's all said and done. Look at the year he had. Look at the tape. Add it all up and this is a guy who's going to soar up the boards ala Donald Brown and Chris Johnson. The only reason more people aren't talking about him as one of the best backs in CFB is because he plays for a low profile team. NFL scouts won't care as much about that.
Few points: 1) Forte is one of the few players who has come in immediately and been a three down back from early in his career. I think Mathews can do that as well. They both weigh about 220-225, although Mathews is more compactly built. Mathews probably isn't the best back at anything: He lacks Gerhart's power, Dwyer's bulk, Spiller's speed of Best's moves. You rarely, outside of his UCLA hurdle, see him do something, like Spiller or Best, and think,-"Good Lord, that was unbelievable." His highlight reel doesn't blow you away. He just does everything well, plays smart, and would likely have a very decent "lowlight reel".
I think he goes in round 1,as I mentioned that I think he will will shoot up boards going forward. I think he gets picked between 15-25. Still, we have seen some very good backs slide. Steven Jackson slid into the mid 20's. Ray Rice went mid round 2. Beanie Wells went at the end of round 1. Jones Drew went in round 2. Also, when you look at the limited production of some backs taken high in the draft in the past few years: Bush, McFadden, Lynch- and some teams may well pass until later.
Being the best in one aspect isn't going to get you anywhere if you suck in other aspects. Sure Gerhart is runs with power, but that's not enough to make him a FF stud. Sure Spiller and Best are lightning in a bottle, but if they can't run between the tackles in the NFL their moves/speed won't mean jack####. Forte doesn't have near the suddeness that Mathews has. Forte has less acceleration, slower long speed, and can't change direction at full speed as well as Mathews can.
It seems like you are mostly interested in arguing than having a discussion. I said he was more talented as well, explained the comparison as both being ready for NFL 3 down backs, and that he would likely be a first round pick. Not exactly sure what you're looking for here.
I mostly agree, but draft boards shift with the combine and interviews. Chris Johnson was likely not a first round pick until he ran a 4.2. DeShaun Jackson was likely a first round pick until he weighed in at <180 pounds. Some players like Malcolm Kelly drop when their knees get looked at. Ben Watson moved way up with his private work outs and his intelligence. Some players wow you with how they carry themselves.I applaud you on seeing Mathews as a stud early, because he hadn't shown he could carry the ball 200+ plus times before this year, and didn't have nearly the same amount of explosive plays. However, you have always had a keen eye for talent.
You're arguing for your opinion, i'm arguing for mine. There's no need to feel offended here. Though i will drop it seeing as that is what you wish.
How has Mathews done in past years? I think that's my sticking point compared to Spiller or Dwyer, two guys who have done it for 3-4 years in a BCS conference.
He's been pretty good:145-866-14 in 11 games as a freshman
Looks like he was injured in the 4th game and it affected his next 3 games. He was 82-478-8 through the 1st 4 games against Rutgers, Wisconsin, Toledo, and UCLA. In addition, he had 5-125-2 receiving in those games. He's moving quickly up my list as I read this.
OK, thanks. Maybe I will get Spiller at 3 now.
He's a better prospect than Roy or Braylon were, at least from what I see and I had seen a good amount of both of those WRs in college. Calvin and Fitz were out of this world but Dez is closer to them than Braylon or Roy were to him.I'd be surprised if Bryant is next in line in terms of draft grade to just those WRs. Braylon Edwards & Roy Wililams were also big prospects.After those WRs listed, there aren't very many blue chip prospects at the WR position who have come out in the past little while.Calvin Johnson, Fitzgerald, and maybe Rogers/AJ are the only WRs taken this decade who are arguably better prospects.
Last year at this time people were talking about Crabtree as being in the SAME tier as Fitz/Calvin, now he's not even anywhere on the list?This is current year hype working at its best. A couple years from now people will be talking about Dez as if he was never in the discussion with those other guys, just like they are with Crabtree (who was a better prospect) now.As far as how I personally feel about him, I was very high on him coming into this season, but he dropped way too many balls for my liking this year.
I agree with this. In fact, I might trade the top pick for Crabtree at this juncture. The RB class was better last year and that's the main driver in fantasy football.
Last year at this time people were talking about Crabtree as being in the SAME tier as Fitz/Calvin, now he's not even anywhere on the list?
This is current year hype working at its best. A couple years from now people will be talking about Dez as if he was never in the discussion with those other guys, just like they are with Crabtree (who was a better prospect) now.
As far as how I personally feel about him, I was very high on him coming into this season, but he dropped way too many balls for my liking this year.
Maybe people were, this is my opinion and I'm usually not big on rookies although I do like drafting them.Maybe my "arguably better" part was over the top but it's my opinion. I didn't even consider trading up to get Crabtree but I won't trade my pick I'll get Bryant with.Last year at this time people were talking about Crabtree as being in the SAME tier as Fitz/Calvin, now he's not even anywhere on the list?This is current year hype working at its best. A couple years from now people will be talking about Dez as if he was never in the discussion with those other guys, just like they are with Crabtree (who was a better prospect) now.As far as how I personally feel about him, I was very high on him coming into this season, but he dropped way too many balls for my liking this year.
I think Fitz was regarded a little higher than Rogers, And AJ maybe a little higher than Crabtree, but I agree they all graded higher than Dez. I didn't feel like arguing it above with the strong statements for Bryant, because I wasn't sure of what I was thinking. So you validated it a little. And thanks for the word rabidfire, but I've had some inside insights on Mathews being he is from my neck of the woods. His Freshman stuff was really amazing and he won the job over some pretty talented older backs. His teammate Lonyae Miller will likely be drafted and I won't be surprised if he sticks in the NFL. He isn't as big as Gerhart, but he is just as strong, maybe better with his footwork and faster. He just couldn't get much love with Mathews around. I saw both Gerhart and Miller in HS back to back weeks and there wasn't a huge difference then and may not be much now. It's just a case that Ryan Mathews was way better than Lonyae. So it wasn't a keen eye for talent. It was just having some information that wasn't real mainstream being Mathrew is at Fresno and few know about his backup or what studs both are. Mathews has always looked great healthy, and injuries have sort of kept him out of the conversation until this year. I agree the combine looms large for him too. A bad time will make him 4th.EBF said:
How generally fast is he supposed to be? Any idea?Spiller and Best are ridiculously fast of course, but is he closer to them or Dwyer?
Dwyer looks pretty fast for any size back. I'd guess Mathews is closer to him because the other two will be two of the NFL's fastest players. I've seen Mathews beat angles with Peterson-like field speed, but I don't expect sub 4.4. I think he should be safely in the 4.44 to 4.48 range. He has a history of posting humorously variable 40 times. At the Nike HS Combine he ran a 4.43 but was DQ'd for a clock malfunction. He turned around and ran 4.8 when he nearly fell face down coming out of his stance, and that is time you will find recorded for him here and there. I forget the time, but he was also the quickest HS RB at that event (shuttle time). I read somewhere he was running 4.4s in the offseason at Fresno, but that could mean 4.49.
Cool, thanks!
He's an intriguing prospect. Very good speed and explosiveness. Good productivity with a knack for making big plays. A quick glance at his game log shows at least 8 plays of 45+ yards this season (and that doesn't include returns, where he offers a lot of added value). He's also a dangerous receiver downfield and on screen passes. The team that drafts him will find ways to get him involved even if he doesn't become a 20 touch per game back at the next level. The main question marks with him involve power and durability. He has a bit of a sprinter's build. Good thigh thickness, but longish legs. Not quite as squatty as you hope for and consequently doesn't generate much "pop" in collisions even though he's weight room strong and he runs with good effort. He has plenty of raw quickness and burst, but he's not as smooth changing directions as someone like Jahvid Best. Again, I suspect it's a body proportions issue. Some observers have questioned his vision. I haven't watched him extensively enough to comment on that.
Prior to writing my original question I was watching youtube footage of him and was seeing a back with good vision and cutting ability/shiftiness.. He was able to break arm tackles, and could still keep his legs moving and get back up to full speed in a flash. He really runs in the style of Chris Johnson.Spiller has incredible receiving abilities too.
Agree with all of this, and after taking a hard look at Best again, I still cannot decide who I prefer. Spiller has a strong "lead" in the media at the moment, and that is generally based on a combination of accurate information gleaned off the record but reflected in the zeitgeist, and false perceptions in a public popularity contest. Spiller closed in a huge way while Best rested from a bad fall. Before the fall the "media" seemed in debate between the two and I suspect it will be close again come draft day, and the "NFL" is still in debate despite the bad concussion. Also, I read somewhere Dwyer can get very close to 4 flat in the 40. That just locks him in the 1st round, imo. Obviously, I think Best is a first rounder who will not last long after Spiller. I probably rank them like this at the moment:
OTOH, actually lying to the NCAA about it was pretty ######ed too.
